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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2020 12:18:06 GMT -5
I guess I'm one of the snarky ones since I don't see it. My reasoning for pushing for the tie out and walking was to prevent a financial mistake, not make fun of her for making one (I'm not even sure what that is honestly). She only has this savings to live off of for who knows how long. Spending 13K on a fence doesn't seem like a good idea at all and I would hope people would tell me the same thing if it was me. I do work for a living, so no, I don't "only have this savings to live off of for who knows how long". It's snarky to suggest walking my dogs every single time they need to pee, after I have said many times that isn't an option. I am NOT getting up in the middle of the night, getting dressed, and going out in the snow to walk a dog. Ever. That's just ridiculous to suggest and I find it hard to believe anyone actually would do it in their own lives. I don't know, maybe other people don't need sleep or can fall back to sleep easily, but this option would mean I never get a decent night's sleep and that's just crazy.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2020 12:38:31 GMT -5
I guess I'm one of the snarky ones since I don't see it. My reasoning for pushing for the tie out and walking was to prevent a financial mistake, not make fun of her for making one (I'm not even sure what that is honestly). She only has this savings to live off of for who knows how long. Spending 13K on a fence doesn't seem like a good idea at all and I would hope people would tell me the same thing if it was me. I do work for a living, so no, I don't "only have this savings to live off of for who knows how long". It's snarky to suggest walking my dogs every single time they need to pee, after I have said many times that isn't an option. I am NOT getting up in the middle of the night, getting dressed, and going out in the snow to walk a dog. Ever. That's just ridiculous to suggest and I find it hard to believe anyone actually would do it in their own lives.I don't know, maybe other people don't need sleep or can fall back to sleep easily, but this option would mean I never get a decent night's sleep and that's just crazy. I'm 50 and have never had a fenced in back yard for my dogs in my life....in Minnesota. It's really not all that ridiculous. Lot's of people do it. Like I said, we had a tie out by the door. But really of all the dogs we ever had we were almost never getting up in the middle of the night past the puppy stage. We'd let them out before we went to bed, then first thing in the morning. The only time a dog ever asked to go out at night it was because they were sick.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2020 12:40:09 GMT -5
This is the reason why I won't share $$$ amounts. Too many holier than though people who have never made a financial mistake (or any other kind) and live perfect lives. I will take my life over yours theirs any day. Fixed!
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Jan 26, 2020 12:55:47 GMT -5
@shastasnewlife I don't understand the snark here. I think it's some of the same people as did it before. Show them. Really? Is that where we are? If we don't agree, there's no room for disagreement, we just pile on the "you go, girl" stuff? I have had large dogs (think Lab size and larger) in the coldest of Midwestern climates. I have a friend who lives in the Windy City in a high rise very near the lake and has gotten up in the middle of the night to take her dog out (safety be damned). I had an invisible fence when I lived in the country and it worked for some of my dogs but others would just take the zap and run through it. And getting them back into the yard was tough, as someone said. Eventually when the lawn aerator didn't wait for me to get home and aerated the lawn and chewed up the invisible fence, the dogs got through so many times that even after it was repaired their training was ruined. After that I was taking two Labs for minimum twice-a-day walks, one at a time, in the snow, ice, and pouring rain, at all hours of the day and night. That was in addition to tie-outs from the deck for quick potty breaks. Even when I had a 6 foot high cedar fence after I moved to the city, I would frequently dash out into the snow in bare feet at all hours of the day and night to drag my dogs away from the fence when something on the other side was driving them nuts and they were barking like fools. Saying you can't do something is different than saying you won't do something. You need to better train your dogs.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jan 26, 2020 14:34:23 GMT -5
This is the reason why I won't share $$$ amounts. Too many holier than though people who have never made a financial mistake (or any other kind) and live perfect lives. I will take my life over yours theirs any day. Fixed! Thank you. I messed up.
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seriousthistime
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Post by seriousthistime on Jan 26, 2020 17:54:22 GMT -5
Really? Is that where we are? If we don't agree, there's no room for disagreement, we just pile on the "you go, girl" stuff? I have had large dogs (think Lab size and larger) in the coldest of Midwestern climates. I have a friend who lives in the Windy City in a high rise very near the lake and has gotten up in the middle of the night to take her dog out (safety be damned). I had an invisible fence when I lived in the country and it worked for some of my dogs but others would just take the zap and run through it. And getting them back into the yard was tough, as someone said. Eventually when the lawn aerator didn't wait for me to get home and aerated the lawn and chewed up the invisible fence, the dogs got through so many times that even after it was repaired their training was ruined. After that I was taking two Labs for minimum twice-a-day walks, one at a time, in the snow, ice, and pouring rain, at all hours of the day and night. That was in addition to tie-outs from the deck for quick potty breaks. Even when I had a 6 foot high cedar fence after I moved to the city, I would frequently dash out into the snow in bare feet at all hours of the day and night to drag my dogs away from the fence when something on the other side was driving them nuts and they were barking like fools. Saying you can't do something is different than saying you won't do something. You need to better train your dogs. LOL!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2020 18:38:33 GMT -5
Please don’t get me started on the trained dogs tangent. But since I’m here (although nobody asked lol), in all my years of owning dogs (30+), they better not wake me up to go outside at some ungodly hour unless they were sick. I’m in my upper 40’s and until a few years ago, had dogs since I was in the 4th grade, and I’ve never had to get up in the middle of the night to let a dog out. I had 2 large dogs and worked OT, often gone from home for over 12 hours..... and the dogs adapted to my schedule and never made a mess inside. Not ideal, but we made it work and the dogs cooperated. They still never woke me up to go outside. I complain about DBF’s dog being unruly, but she’s never made a mess in the house, thank God. If she really needs to go, she’ll start licking on DBF to wake him up, (which I think is kinda cute, she NEVER comes to my side of the bed) but that’s rare and always in the morning, after we would’ve let her out if we had to go to work. I’m really big on training dogs, it makes them so much easier to live with. My last dogs, I had 2 large ones at the same time (a standard poodle and a Bullmastiff) and they wouldn’t leave my front yard without my permission. My back yard was fenced in. But I could take them in the front yard and not even have collars on them, and I did, all the time, and they wouldn’t leave the front yard. But they wouldn’t allow anyone to step onto the property either, people could walk down the street all day with no problems, (no sidewalks in this neighborhood) as long as they didn’t come into my yard or driveway. With all my training skills, I have to admit I didn’t teach them that, nor do I know how to teach a dog to be like that. I taught them a lot of other stuff, I guess they just decided to be that kind of guardians on their own lol.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2020 19:34:58 GMT -5
I have an old dog. He used to be able to go all night without going out, but nowadays he wants out in the middle of the night.
I also have a young female dog who sometimes goes out in the middle of the night still.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jan 26, 2020 19:45:08 GMT -5
The snark for everything Shasta mentions since she put her place on the market is unreal. Why don't people just stop it. Perhaps because certain people feel like they are better than other people and get off on it? And, it is, and always has been, sanctioned on this board. I've learned to recognize it for what it is, and understand narcissism in a different way than I used to, so I choose to ignore it. I don't owe anyone an explanation or need external validation in my life. As humans we are all different. Honestly, I often feel sorry for people who think life is all about living a certain way and if you stray from that "ideal" your life is worth less. I think there are a lot of poorer folks living better lives in many regards than those who "have it all". I hear you. And i I don’t walk my dog either. I just let her out to run around and she comes back. And she knocks on the door when she wants in.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jan 26, 2020 19:47:12 GMT -5
My dog can open any door in this house and let himself out if they aren’t locked... he does not close them after himself however. Mine can also do so. If you figure out how to get them to close the door, please share.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 26, 2020 20:03:30 GMT -5
Perhaps because certain people feel like they are better than other people and get off on it? And, it is, and always has been, sanctioned on this board. I've learned to recognize it for what it is, and understand narcissism in a different way than I used to, so I choose to ignore it. I don't owe anyone an explanation or need external validation in my life. As humans we are all different. Honestly, I often feel sorry for people who think life is all about living a certain way and if you stray from that "ideal" your life is worth less. I think there are a lot of poorer folks living better lives in many regards than those who "have it all". I hear you. And i I don’t walk my dog either. I just let her out to run around and she comes back. And she knocks on the door when she wants in. Mine too. When she wants out I open the door and she goes out. She likes to sun herself on the pavement.I joke that she needs her "alone time". When she's ready to come in she knocks.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Jan 26, 2020 20:25:19 GMT -5
My dog can open any door in this house and let himself out if they aren’t locked... he does not close them after himself however. Mine can also do so. If you figure out how to get them to close the door, please share. You probably don't need to be reminded to be careful what you train your dog to do. A former colleague was determined to train his dogs to bring him beers. It was only after he had succeeded in training them to do so that he realized what had actually done was to teach the dogs how to open the refrigerator. Where all the food was. Two German shepherds.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jan 27, 2020 9:21:28 GMT -5
I guess I'm one of the snarky ones since I don't see it. My reasoning for pushing for the tie out and walking was to prevent a financial mistake, not make fun of her for making one (I'm not even sure what that is honestly). She only has this savings to live off of for who knows how long. Spending 13K on a fence doesn't seem like a good idea at all and I would hope people would tell me the same thing if it was me. I do work for a living, so no, I don't "only have this savings to live off of for who knows how long". It's snarky to suggest walking my dogs every single time they need to pee, after I have said many times that isn't an option. I am NOT getting up in the middle of the night, getting dressed, and going out in the snow to walk a dog. Ever. That's just ridiculous to suggest and I find it hard to believe anyone actually would do it in their own lives. I don't know, maybe other people don't need sleep or can fall back to sleep easily, but this option would mean I never get a decent night's sleep and that's just crazy. But it IS an option. It's not an option you feel like doing. But you're also balking at the cost of the alternative. But I think what people are REALLY latching onto is this idea that you seem to think that it's just utterly ridiculous for anyone to suggest that someone walk their own dog at night to pee. You seem to think that nobody does this, when in reality tons of people do this, in the snow, at night, every night. I get why YOU don't want to do it, once I'm up I'm up and not going back to sleep (and frankly getting out of bed enough to open the door is enough that I'm never going back to sleep, but I choose not to have a pet for that reason). There is absolutely a ton of snark around this suggestion that you could walk your dogs at night, and it's coming directly from YOU. This sounds an AWFUL lot like "she who shall not be named". People give reasonable money-saving suggestions, and they won't work because "I don't wanna".
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 9:32:19 GMT -5
I told myself I was going to bow out of this, but I thought of this thread when I was driving to work this morning past the uber elite suburb in our town with all the McMansions where NOBODY has a fence because the HOA in that area doesn't allow them. I know lots of people there have dogs and the houses are pretty close together, so unless they have in-ground electric, they're either walking them or tying them when they go out.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 9:40:55 GMT -5
I wouldn’t count on electric fences, either. I’m in an HOA board and just yesterday dealt with a complaint about a poodle running around loose- when one neighbor had the garage door open while warming up the car, dog walked an and started trying to eat the garbage in the garbage can. Turns out to be the pet of someone with an electric fence.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Jan 27, 2020 9:43:45 GMT -5
I told myself I was going to bow out of this, but I thought of this thread when I was driving to work this morning past the uber elite suburb in our town with all the McMansions where NOBODY has a fence because the HOA in that area doesn't allow them. I know lots of people there have dogs and the houses are pretty close together, so unless they have in-ground electric, they're either walking them or tying them when they go out. No, I have one dog that won't run off. She does her business and comes right back in. All my dogs have been like that, except the latest one. He's a rescue and he likes to run. Not to get away, but he wants a car ride back. The former owners got him into that and I haven't figured out how to break it yet. For him we have a rope. It's anchored in the centre of the yard and just reaches the back door. We open the door, hook him up and let him go.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 9:47:36 GMT -5
I told myself I was going to bow out of this, but I thought of this thread when I was driving to work this morning past the uber elite suburb in our town with all the McMansions where NOBODY has a fence because the HOA in that area doesn't allow them. I know lots of people there have dogs and the houses are pretty close together, so unless they have in-ground electric, they're either walking them or tying them when they go out. No, I have one dog that won't run off. She does her business and comes right back in. All my dogs have been like that, except the latest one. He's a rescue and he likes to run. Not to get away, but he wants a car ride back. The former owners got him into that and I haven't figured out how to break it yet. For him we have a rope. It's anchored in the centre of the yard and just reaches the back door. We open the door, hook him up and let him go. Ok, so they either have in-ground electric, tie them, walk them or just let them free. Either way it's a lot of people with dogs with no fences in the frozen tundra...which was the point I was making.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Jan 27, 2020 9:48:33 GMT -5
No, I have one dog that won't run off. She does her business and comes right back in. All my dogs have been like that, except the latest one. He's a rescue and he likes to run. Not to get away, but he wants a car ride back. The former owners got him into that and I haven't figured out how to break it yet. For him we have a rope. It's anchored in the centre of the yard and just reaches the back door. We open the door, hook him up and let him go. Ok, so they either have in-ground electric, tie them, walk them or just let them free. Either way it's a lot of people with dogs with no fences in the frozen tundra...which was the point I was making. oops, then I completely agree.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 27, 2020 9:55:44 GMT -5
Shasta, I hope the quote from guy #2 comes back within reason for you.
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debthaven
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Post by debthaven on Jan 27, 2020 10:38:11 GMT -5
Shasta can you get the second estimate soon, or do you have to wait till you go back?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 11:28:52 GMT -5
I do work for a living, so no, I don't "only have this savings to live off of for who knows how long". It's snarky to suggest walking my dogs every single time they need to pee, after I have said many times that isn't an option. I am NOT getting up in the middle of the night, getting dressed, and going out in the snow to walk a dog. Ever. That's just ridiculous to suggest and I find it hard to believe anyone actually would do it in their own lives. I don't know, maybe other people don't need sleep or can fall back to sleep easily, but this option would mean I never get a decent night's sleep and that's just crazy. But it IS an option. It's not an option you feel like doing. But you're also balking at the cost of the alternative. But I think what people are REALLY latching onto is this idea that you seem to think that it's just utterly ridiculous for anyone to suggest that someone walk their own dog at night to pee. You seem to think that nobody does this, when in reality tons of people do this, in the snow, at night, every night. I get why YOU don't want to do it, once I'm up I'm up and not going back to sleep (and frankly getting out of bed enough to open the door is enough that I'm never going back to sleep, but I choose not to have a pet for that reason). There is absolutely a ton of snark around this suggestion that you could walk your dogs at night, and it's coming directly from YOU. This sounds an AWFUL lot like "she who shall not be named". People give reasonable money-saving suggestions, and they won't work because "I don't wanna".And, this comment is very similar to someone who lives in Florida. So, I take it for what it's worth.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jan 27, 2020 11:37:31 GMT -5
This is interesting.....
Our house is not fenced. Some in the neighborhood are, but the topography of this house would make it difficult. As a result, we take the dog out. Harriet always goes out on a leash, Harpo was pretty good about running out to pee, then run back in (at the end of his life he got confused and needed to be leashed). Dog walks are just part of the schedule. Harriet’s pretty good in that we take her out to pee before going to bed (usually just tothe end of the driveway) and she is good until we get up the next morning.
But before we got Harriet, we were looking for a small dog, and since the humane society in our county did not have any, we went to the next county over. We found one, filled in an application and were denied because our yard was not fenced. It did not matter that we NEVER let the dog run free, but no fence = no dog.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 11:42:17 GMT -5
Shasta, I hope the quote from guy #2 comes back within reason for you. Thanks. I received another quote of 8K from a fence builder out of Boise, ID that's a friend of a friend and willing to travel a bit for the job. I'll wait and see what the other local's quote looks like and then decide.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 11:44:14 GMT -5
Shasta can you get the second estimate soon, or do you have to wait till you go back? He's supposed to go out and look around the property and then give me a call. I expect I'll likely hear from him this week because he knows my timeline and we talked about possibly building the week after I take possession of the property.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 27, 2020 11:53:11 GMT -5
Shasta can you get the second estimate soon, or do you have to wait till you go back? He's supposed to go out and look around the property and then give me a call. I expect I'll likely hear from him this week because he knows my timeline and we talked about possibly building the week after I take possession of the property. That's mid Feb, right? Will the snow be gone by then? I don't know the weather patterns for that part of the country, I expect to be kneedeep in snow in med Feb. here.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jan 27, 2020 12:03:59 GMT -5
He's supposed to go out and look around the property and then give me a call. I expect I'll likely hear from him this week because he knows my timeline and we talked about possibly building the week after I take possession of the property. That's mid Feb, right? Will the snow be gone by then? I don't know the weather patterns for that part of the country, I expect to be kneedeep in snow in med Feb. here. 2 sides to it. 1. More expensive because nobody wants to dig post holes in frozen ground if it's that cold. 2. If they primarily do fences, they're hurting for work in February and so it's less expensive. We're getting a pretty good deal on our house-build because we're in a cold climate, but we're using the existing foundation which means no excavation and no pouring concrete, which means rather than laying the crew off for 3-4 months they're going to work on our house instead since none of those things will impede their project.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jan 27, 2020 12:15:52 GMT -5
But it IS an option. It's not an option you feel like doing. But you're also balking at the cost of the alternative. But I think what people are REALLY latching onto is this idea that you seem to think that it's just utterly ridiculous for anyone to suggest that someone walk their own dog at night to pee. You seem to think that nobody does this, when in reality tons of people do this, in the snow, at night, every night. I get why YOU don't want to do it, once I'm up I'm up and not going back to sleep (and frankly getting out of bed enough to open the door is enough that I'm never going back to sleep, but I choose not to have a pet for that reason). There is absolutely a ton of snark around this suggestion that you could walk your dogs at night, and it's coming directly from YOU. This sounds an AWFUL lot like "she who shall not be named". People give reasonable money-saving suggestions, and they won't work because "I don't wanna".And, this comment is very similar to someone who lives in Florida. So, I take it for what it's worth. Eh, I agree with not wanting to do it, I wouldn't. But honestly the first page or two sounded a lot more like "it's impossible, there's snow on the ground, I probably wouldn't be allowed to use a lead in the yard to do it, it's cold, etc etc". It sounded a lot like "here are the reasons it actually technically wouldn't work", when the real reason is "I just refuse to do it because I don't like it". I don't think most people meant any snark by continuing to suggest it, because it genuinely sounded like you thought it couldn't technically work when it clearly could. That's why I thought it sounded like someone else. Instead of just saying "nah, I could, but I just don't want to", it was a list of reasons the option could never possibly work. I'm all for just saying "yeah, that option exists, but I'm not doing it because I just don't want to". I expect snark when absent that, the approach is to try to discredit an option as seemingly impossible (when it clearly isn't). On the question of the fence: Are you going to treat the cedar or just let it go grey over time? Does something with less upkeep appeal more like vinyl/PVC panels or a higher chain-link (or chain link with privacy slats installed)?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 12:37:04 GMT -5
He's supposed to go out and look around the property and then give me a call. I expect I'll likely hear from him this week because he knows my timeline and we talked about possibly building the week after I take possession of the property. That's mid Feb, right? Will the snow be gone by then? I don't know the weather patterns for that part of the country, I expect to be kneedeep in snow in med Feb. here. The area is at about 4500' and historically gets about 20" of snow every year. We expect there will be snow, but not 10 feet of it or something that miserable. They will auger fence post holes mechanically and clear the snow when they remove the old fence, so no one seems to think it's that big of a deal.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 12:39:01 GMT -5
This is interesting..... Our house is not fenced. Some in the neighborhood are, but the topography of this house would make it difficult. As a result, we take the dog out. Harriet always goes out on a leash, Harpo was pretty good about running out to pee, then run back in (at the end of his life he got confused and needed to be leashed). Dog walks are just part of the schedule. Harriet’s pretty good in that we take her out to pee before going to bed (usually just tothe end of the driveway) and she is good until we get up the next morning. But before we got Harriet, we were looking for a small dog, and since the humane society in our county did not have any, we went to the next county over. We found one, filled in an application and were denied because our yard was not fenced. It did not matter that we NEVER let the dog run free, but no fence = no dog.Where I was previously living you had to have 6' wood or chainlink or none of the shelters would adopt out a dog, including the county's shelter.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 13:01:49 GMT -5
And, this comment is very similar to someone who lives in Florida. So, I take it for what it's worth. Eh, I agree with not wanting to do it, I wouldn't. But honestly the first page or two sounded a lot more like "it's impossible, there's snow on the ground, I probably wouldn't be allowed to use a lead in the yard to do it, it's cold, etc etc". It sounded a lot like "here are the reasons it actually technically wouldn't work", when the real reason is "I just refuse to do it because I don't like it". I don't think most people meant any snark by continuing to suggest it, because it genuinely sounded like you thought it couldn't technically work when it clearly could. That's why I thought it sounded like someone else. Instead of just saying "nah, I could, but I just don't want to", it was a list of reasons the option could never possibly work. I'm all for just saying "yeah, that option exists, but I'm not doing it because I just don't want to". I expect snark when absent that, the approach is to try to discredit an option as seemingly impossible (when it clearly isn't). On the question of the fence: Are you going to treat the cedar or just let it go grey over time? Does something with less upkeep appeal more like vinyl/PVC panels or a higher chain-link (or chain link with privacy slats installed)? I'm not interested in arguing semantics about dog walking. I'm not doing it because it's not a reasonable solution to the problem at hand. My offer on this house was significantly below asking price because I knew I would have to pay for some sort of fence in order to comfortably live there with my dogs and keep them from being a pain in the ass to my new neighbors. The quote for vinyl/PVC was over 20K. I can buy the panels for about 15% of that cost, so not sure why it's so expensive. The first quote included $1500 to stain/treat the fence. I'll do that myself if I decide to treat it.
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