bean29
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Post by bean29 on May 23, 2024 15:02:02 GMT -5
Deleted and moved to What are you doing RN - posted to the wrong thread. Sorry!
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on May 24, 2024 8:33:40 GMT -5
I don't know bookkeeper, sounds like she's ready. Is there an issue with her exceeding the $250k/$500k limit? I'd think I'd want to simplyfy the process by getting rid of the house once it's renovated. Do you want the property as a rental? She would exceed the $250k limit. Her house would probably be worth $300,000 and the yard would be valued separately (10 acres) due to the farming operation. It would be all sold together, but I think we need to wait until she passes unless we want to donate to the IRS. Renting the house is not an attractive option. I would rather leave it vacant and clean until her passing. The mowing is the big thing. It is 10 acres that needs mowed at least once a week from April until October. I'm sure you've already thought all of this through but are they separate parcels? If so, what is the value of the 10 acre parcel? What state is the property in and what was the step up value at the time of his death? A further concern I would have is that she outlives the 2 out of 5 year rule unless there are exemptions for someone in a nursing home.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 24, 2024 8:45:06 GMT -5
I would consult with an elder care attorney before deciding to hang onto the house and land. The laws change on a dime and are heavily state dependent. If she does go into a nursing home they will push you to sell the house. In Iowa my grandmother's money is the nursing home's money. Then when she runs out of private funds anything left becomes property of the state of Iowa. Technically and legally we didn't have to sell the house when we did but the nursing home made our life a living hell. Plus trying to keep the house going out in Treynor while we live in Council Bluffs was a PITA. It's gone, I wrote the nursing home a giant check and that was the end of it. Also made it "easier" to apply for Medicaid with the house already being gone. There is so much red tape that you don't know about until it happens. With her being in an apartment right now you got the luxury to consult with someone about all the options and scenarios. As much as you like to think you're prepared. . .you're probably not. ![](https://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/ymamsmiles/idunno.gif) There is going to be some hiccup or arcane rule that will come out of freaking nowhere to make your life hell. If I hadn't hired help to get grandma on Medicaid she'd probably be homeless now because I NEVER would have gotten through that process by myself.
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azucena
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Post by azucena on May 24, 2024 14:01:08 GMT -5
Depending on the LTC policy and annuity, the nursing home may not care about the property as those two assets serve as their own type of collateral.
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bookkeeper
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Post by bookkeeper on May 24, 2024 15:16:17 GMT -5
This discussion has brought up important points, like how is the house and yard separated from the farm ground? Is it separate?
We have an appraisal for a total of around $250,000 for the house, outbuildings and yard from Dad's date of death. This property is in South Dakota. No state income tax and no inheritance tax. Building costs have doubled since Dad passed, making the property more valuable.
I have a sibling that lives nearby. He is the one doing the heavy lifting for our Mom. He absolutely does not want a renter in the house. I have to respect his request.
I would rather work to get the house and yard platted separately from the farm ground in anticipation of a future sale at Mom's death. Those heirs that want to keep the land can keep their tracts, and those that want to sell can list their tracts for sale with the house. We have been approached by several buyers with offers on the land, the local auction prices for farm houses and land has been strong as well.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on May 24, 2024 17:44:34 GMT -5
When DN2 bought his farm, the house was sold separately. He planned to buy it. He said for the kind of house it was and the condition it was in he let someone else buy it at the estate auction. The buyers did a huge remodel and now watch him farm.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on May 31, 2024 16:43:04 GMT -5
Saw this interesting article from the New York Times. It may be behind a paywall. Not sure. The Loneliness Curve
New research suggests people tend to be lonelier in young adulthood and late life. But experts say it doesn’t have to be that way. When Surgeon General Vivek Murthy went on a nationwide college tour last fall, he started to hear the same kind of question time and again: How are we supposed to connect with one another when nobody talks anymore? In an age when participation in community organizations, clubs and religious groups has declined, and more social interaction is happening online instead of in person, some young people are reporting levels of loneliness that, in past decades, were typically associated with older adults. It’s one of the many reasons loneliness has become a problem at both the beginning and end of our life span. In a study published last Tuesday in the journal Psychological Science, researchers found that loneliness follows a U-shaped curve: Starting from young adulthood, self-reported loneliness tends to decline as people approach midlife only to rise again after the age of 60, becoming especially pronounced by around age 80. While anyone can experience loneliness, including middle-aged adults, people in midlife may feel more socially connected than other age groups because they are often interacting with co-workers, a spouse, children and others in their community — and these relationships may feel stable and satisfying, said Eileen K. Graham, an associate professor of medical social sciences at the Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine and the lead author of the study. As people get older, those opportunities can “start to fall away,” she said. In the study, which looked at data waves spanning several decades, starting as early as the 1980s and ending as late as 2018, participants at either end of the age spectrum were more likely to agree with statements such as: “I miss having people around me” or “My social relationships are superficial.” “We have social muscles just like we have physical muscles,” Dr. Murthy said. “And those social muscles weaken when we don’t use them.” When loneliness goes unchecked, it can be dangerous to our physical and mental health, and has been linked to problems like heart disease, dementia and suicidal ideation. Dr. Graham and other experts on social connection said there were small steps we could take at any age to cultivate a sense of belonging and social connection. Do a relationship audit.
“Don’t wait until old age to discover that you lack a good-quality social network,” said Louise Hawkley, a research scientist who studies loneliness at NORC at the University of Chicago, a social research organization. “The longer you wait, the harder it gets to form new connections.” Studies suggest that most people benefit from having a minimum of four to six close relationships, said Julianne Holt-Lunstad, a professor of psychology and neuroscience and the director of the Social Connection and Health Lab at Brigham Young University. But it’s not just the quantity that matters, she added, it’s also the variety and the quality. “Different relationships can fulfill different kinds of needs,” Dr. Holt-Lunstad said. “Just like you need a variety of foods to get a variety of nutrients, you need a variety of types of people in your life.” Ask yourself: Are you able to rely on and support the people in your life? And are your relationships mostly positive rather than negative? If so, it’s a sign that those relationships are beneficial to your mental and physical well-being, she said. Rest of article here: The Loneliness Curve
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jun 1, 2024 10:28:25 GMT -5
Tennesser, Thanks for posting the article. I believe it. Relationships take work especially relationships with people who don't think like oneself. I've gone through some profound periods of loneliness during my life. Currently I'm actively engaged with a community volunteer group and a group of ladies from my gym. The gym group has been especially supportive as I've been going through my knee replacement journey. They are consistently supportive and are helping me through the slow recovery period. I had expected a lot of pain but what I really wasn't prepared for was the mental challenge. Good to have friends who may have not gone through the same experience but who are kind. It's helping me get through my impatience and frustration. ![](https://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/ymamsmiles/pray.gif) I am so grateful and hope I can pay it forward.
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Jun 4, 2024 1:52:56 GMT -5
The look back is 5 years. You can change ownership. If the parent has to go on Medicaid within that 5 years is when the problems start.
What they do is compute the number of months that the penalty applies and you pay out of pocket for that period. If you run out of money than you can start selling off assets to pay the bills until they qualify for Medicaid. Just remember not to cash out and spend the money. You can even sell the stuff, but I would bank the money until the time passes that is what we did on my mom. She used all the money from her house before Medicaid kicked in, but she had signed the 25 acres over to me about 7 years before that and declared it as a gift on her taxes. Yes, it cost us when we sold it, but for us it would have worked out anyway. Mom only lived 2 months after going on Medicaid. Her health had been poor, COPD badly, digestive issues, heart issues, and who knows what else. Her last year she was in terrible health.
Just have to check it out.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jun 4, 2024 17:03:03 GMT -5
The look back is 5 years. You can change ownership. If the parent has to go on Medicaid within that 5 years is when the problems start. What they do is compute the number of months that the penalty applies and you pay out of pocket for that period. If you run out of money than you can start selling off assets to pay the bills until they qualify for Medicaid. Just remember not to cash out and spend the money. You can even sell the stuff, but I would bank the money until the time passes that is what we did on my mom. She used all the money from her house before Medicaid kicked in, but she had signed the 25 acres over to me about 7 years before that and declared it as a gift on her taxes. Yes, it cost us when we sold it, but for us it would have worked out anyway. Mom only lived 2 months after going on Medicaid. Her health had been poor, COPD badly, digestive issues, heart issues, and who knows what else. Her last year she was in terrible health. Just have to check it out. The exception being California where the look back period is 30 months, half of that in the other 49 states
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bookkeeper
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Post by bookkeeper on Jun 25, 2024 11:37:01 GMT -5
I talked to Mom this morning and she is firmly staying in the apartment we rented for her. She is not moving back into her house after the fire damage company is finished. She has agreed to sell the house and yard. It's bittersweet planning to sell the place where we all grew up, but it is time. No one has the youth or ambition to keep up that large of a property for her, or for us.
Next step is a survey and county zoning to separate the parcel from the farm ground. We also have some earthmoving to do to make an approach to be able to farm all the land without having to drive through the yard to do it.
Mom and my brother have been talking about selling the house and yard at auction, as is where is. It's probably the right way to do it. A similar property nearby sold last spring for tens of thousands above the estimate at auction.
It is a desirable property, 1600 sq. ft ranch on a paved county road with 4 large outbuildings and three grain bins. Sits on a little over 4 acres.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jun 27, 2024 9:00:39 GMT -5
I talked to Mom this morning and she is firmly staying in the apartment we rented for her. She is not moving back into her house after the fire damage company is finished. She has agreed to sell the house and yard. It's bittersweet planning to sell the place where we all grew up, but it is time. No one has the youth or ambition to keep up that large of a property for her, or for us. Next step is a survey and county zoning to separate the parcel from the farm ground. We also have some earthmoving to do to make an approach to be able to farm all the land without having to drive through the yard to do it. Mom and my brother have been talking about selling the house and yard at auction, as is where is. It's probably the right way to do it. A similar property nearby sold last spring for tens of thousands above the estimate at auction. It is a desirable property, 1600 sq. ft ranch on a paved county road with 4 large outbuildings and three grain bins. Sits on a little over 4 acres. Good luck Bookkeeper! So much easier when your parent is cooperative.
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bookkeeper
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Post by bookkeeper on Jul 1, 2024 15:11:08 GMT -5
Cooperation was not on display recently. Mom and brother started fighting about Mom trying to retrieve smoke damaged items. Things escalated and she said some very horrible things to brother, you know, the one person who does everything for her.
He is done with her. I don't blame him. Being old is not a hall pass to be an asshole. She has apologized, but she can't unring the bell.
How a mother can be so cruel with words to her own child I will never understand.
There was a reason I left home at 18. Family drama is the worst.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 1, 2024 15:51:48 GMT -5
My grandmother and GU said horrible things about my dad to his face and to me. I can't legally be done with my grandmother but it has affected my desire to see her.
I never went to see my GU and honestly I do not feel guilty about it.
They've always been like that it's just the mask fully came off when my dad put his foot down about being their entire elder care plan. He really went off on them when they then insisted he make me do it instead.
How you can say those things about your own son/nephew when he is bending over backwards to help your stupid selfish entitled asses is beyond me. You would think you wouldn't bite the hand that could send you "accidently' rolling down a hill in your wheelchair.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jul 2, 2024 9:33:53 GMT -5
bookkeeper and @nomoredramaq1015, It's hard to step back when you're in the middle of this situation especially when you're physically and emotionally exhausted. They are scared, feeling out of control and whether it's dementia or something else no longer having the filter that says "I better not say that". It's like dealing with bratty five year olds. At least your brother got an apology, Bookkeeper. I don't know if your brother is willing to get some counseling or attend a support group but certainly one thing that can help is for him to set some boundaries. I don't remember off-hand but I think there's money to hire some caregivers. That might help relieve part of the burden. Good luck. I know this is hard.
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bookkeeper
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Post by bookkeeper on Jul 17, 2024 18:36:56 GMT -5
I dropped Mom back at her apartment today after taking her with us for a week. We went to go see my twin grandsons and have a little party for my birthday. She did OK on the road. She did take a nap most days so she didn't get all run down.
In a day and a half, I get to turn around and go back to her house and meet with her attorney to learn if/how Dad's trust will allow us to sell her house and what the capital gains will be. I have contacted her CPA and he gave me some specific questions to ask that will help estimate her tax bill.
After that we will need to separate the home parcel from the farm ground and have a survey.
I will be surprised if we can sell this house before winter.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jul 18, 2024 13:06:46 GMT -5
I dropped Mom back at her apartment today after taking her with us for a week. We went to go see my twin grandsons and have a little party for my birthday. She did OK on the road. She did take a nap most days so she didn't get all run down. In a day and a half, I get to turn around and go back to her house and meet with her attorney to learn if/how Dad's trust will allow us to sell her house and what the capital gains will be. I have contacted her CPA and he gave me some specific questions to ask that will help estimate her tax bill. After that we will need to separate the home parcel from the farm ground and have a survey. I will be surprised if we can sell this house before winter. Good luck Bookkeeper! These things take more time than you think.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Jul 18, 2024 16:14:25 GMT -5
Ok, I need to take mom to the Dr. on Monday to have a Quantum Serum test for TB done, and I have to complete some paperwork.
First is for Assisted Living Pharmacy Service LLC. There is a statement that I am financial responsible for (Resident's Name). Then it wants me to print my name and sign it. I am assuming I should modify this to state something to the effect that I am responsible to pay Mom's bills from her funds/her estate?
Page 2. Section B Patient's Rights 3e. says "ALPS may deny your request for records in limited circumstances. In case of denial, you may request a review of the denial for most reasons. Requests for review of a denial must also be submitted to the Privacy Officer listed in Section D of this notice. I see no reason to allow this. I think I should Strike it. Do you think they will allow it?
They also charge $20.00 to repackage the meds if the HMO/PPO does not allow medicine to be dispensed in a 28 day cycle. You have to pay for Meds upon receipt of monthly statement. A monthly rebilling fee of $10.00 will be added to outstanding accounts. Outstanding accounts over 60 days will be charged interest of 2% per month or 24% annually. (If you are being charge late fees and 24% interest that is a hella lot of $$, again, I don't know if I can get away with modifying this.) So you pay them, they submit the claim, but Medicare reimbursement goes to you, not them. For now, I think mom has enough $$ for this not to be a problem. I also think I can afford to pay for any Meds she might need if she couldn't afford them. I cannot afford to pay the facility costs out of my pocket though once mom runs out of $$, I expect Medicaid to cover...unless it is something like $1,000/month split between DB and Me...but don't want to commit to that at this point.
Any input is appreciated. TY
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Jul 18, 2024 23:01:42 GMT -5
Definately don't sign anything that assigns financial responsibility to you. I don't know how that would work if you change the wording of their forms. I do know healthcare facilities sometimes lie and tell you it says you are responsible, but you aren't, just to get you to sign. Don't believe them.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 20, 2024 19:53:12 GMT -5
America’s growing elderly population endangered by rising heat, wildfires
The rising frequency and intensity of extreme heat events are exacerbating the health and safety concerns of America’s older population — an already vulnerable community, and one that’s growing fast. “We’re seeing increasing heat and increasing extremes of heat,” said Ian Neel, a geriatrician and an associate professor at the University of California San Diego School of Medicine, at a recent webinar. “But we’re also seeing increasing frequency of older adults, and older adults are one of the more at-risk populations for heat related injuries,” he added. The population of Americans 65 or older ballooned from roughly 40 million to 56 million between 2010 and 2020, and it is projected to grow by another 17 million by the end of this decade. At the same time, temperatures are swelling around the world, shattering heat records and contributing to an increase in wildfires. Tarik Benmarhnia, an associate professor in climate change epidemiology at UC San Diego’s Scripps Institution of Oceanography, described extreme heat as “a huge, silent and sneaky killer." While prevailing estimates today directly link between 6,000 and 7,000 American deaths to heat each year, Benmarhnia challenged that figure as “only the tip of the iceberg.” When considering how extreme heat can also trigger complications in an aging population living with chronic diseases, he said that this number could be as high as 12,000 to 20,000 annual deaths. Neel, who works predominantly with older adults experiencing advanced dementia, characterized heat as “one of the major things that we see as a huge detriment on patients’ health.” “Invariably, what we see every summer, more and more frequently, is an increasing incidence of older adults coming in with falls,” Neel said. Rest of article here: America’s growing elderly population endangered by rising heat, wildfires
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 21, 2024 1:23:35 GMT -5
Ok, I need to take mom to the Dr. on Monday to have a Quantum Serum test for TB done, and I have to complete some paperwork. First is for Assisted Living Pharmacy Service LLC. There is a statement that I am financial responsible for (Resident's Name). Then it wants me to print my name and sign it. I am assuming I should modify this to state something to the effect that I am responsible to pay Mom's bills from her funds/her estate? Page 2. Section B Patient's Rights 3e. says "ALPS may deny your request for records in limited circumstances. In case of denial, you may request a review of the denial for most reasons. Requests for review of a denial must also be submitted to the Privacy Officer listed in Section D of this notice. I see no reason to allow this. I think I should Strike it. Do you think they will allow it? They also charge $20.00 to repackage the meds if the HMO/PPO does not allow medicine to be dispensed in a 28 day cycle. You have to pay for Meds upon receipt of monthly statement. A monthly rebilling fee of $10.00 will be added to outstanding accounts. Outstanding accounts over 60 days will be charged interest of 2% per month or 24% annually. (If you are being charge late fees and 24% interest that is a hella lot of $$, again, I don't know if I can get away with modifying this.) So you pay them, they submit the claim, but Medicare reimbursement goes to you, not them. For now, I think mom has enough $$ for this not to be a problem. I also think I can afford to pay for any Meds she might need if she couldn't afford them. I cannot afford to pay the facility costs out of my pocket though once mom runs out of $$, I expect Medicaid to cover...unless it is something like $1,000/month split between DB and Me...but don't want to commit to that at this point. Any input is appreciated. TY Is there a good social worker or patient advocate that can help you? The facility I worked for wasn't as sleazy as what DQ had to deal with so I now feel I can't offer very good advice on that. For the first one are you her POA? Page 2, section B ... I don't think this is an opt out kind of thing. I used to assist in filing and auditing medical records at the facility. That sounds like boilerplate possibly per state regulations or something. The Privacy officer might be in charge of HIPAA type requests etc. Meds can be a tricky thing. First I'd find out what is possible. In the AL, some patients were aware enough that they bought their own meds but they were administered by the nursing staff. Sadly 24% on medical bills is fairly standard in my experience. If you have float you might want to use it. In my prior world you would want to talk to the business office and see what the possibilities are. I know for the AL, if certain people did not pay in a timely fashion, some residents had CC info on file that would be charged just b4 the bill would be late. That prevents those late charges but may or may not cause other issues. Have you asked some of these Qs of the admissions director or whatever they are called there?
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obelisk
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Post by obelisk on Jul 23, 2024 19:47:57 GMT -5
My father in law is 93 and walks at least 3 miles a day now. It used to be a lot more. I am currently on vacation with him and we spend at least 2 hours everyday walking around his community and meeting with his friends.
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lurkyloo
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Post by lurkyloo on Jul 24, 2024 10:47:05 GMT -5
Moving over to the proper thread… My mother had hip replacement surgery yesterday, it went well. She’s awake and denying that anything is wrong. She’s still insisting on some things that are not right, but seems in good spirits. She doesn’t have her glasses (mostly for reading) or keys, so at some point we’ll have to break back into the house. I really don’t want OB’s friend who’s been helping out to be responsible for that, as he is a person of color. Presumably OB will get to do that, likely with police accompaniment. I ordered a set of reading glasses and a novel on amazon for delivery, but overnight was the best I could get. She’s not someone who’s good at being idle. My BFF doesn’t have time today and I couldn’t find anything I thought she’d like to read on doordash or instacart. Open to suggestions. She’ll be in the hospital a couple more days then maybe a short stint in rehab, definitely some time with a walker. OB will try to get her to agree to an aide coming by several times a week, and we can set up a schedule so one of us touches base by phone or email on off days. Her younger brother, my uncle, is not doing well at all. Not sure if it’s Alzheimers or stroke or what ![](https://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/ymamsmiles/sad.png) His wife is several years younger (maybe 10) and is still able to manage-she reached out to find out what was going on. No idea why OB, who is running the show, told her to ask me for details.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 24, 2024 14:24:47 GMT -5
Hope she feels better lurkyloo. Hopefully it is the not right feeling that most people get versus a real something got screwed up here kind of thing.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Jul 24, 2024 14:28:12 GMT -5
I contacted the Senior Planning group that helped my parents write the Medical and Financial POA's and she set me up with an attorney to review the documents. After Girammoma said something about payring $350 to an Eldercare Attorney to head off potential problems, I decided spending some $ upfront may well be worth it. At least I will be less likely to lose sleep over financial issues. We are doing this largely at my DB's insistance though, and I am conflicted as to whether or not this is the right thing at this time. DB wants her at this facility and it is rather small and has a bed available now. Mom could likely go another 6 months to a year on her own without a problem. I am trying to avoid the kind of hard feelings between my siblings and I that Theo has, although I don't think that would be an issue b/c we don't have any issues now.
My coworker had cameras on their mom when she lived alone, and they knew her sleep patterns were all messed up. I suspect Mom is sleeping is short cat naps during the day. He said his mom was sleeping no more than 2 hours at night. We don't know about stuff like that b/c we don't have cameras set up, and we don't stop in there late at night.
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lurkyloo
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Post by lurkyloo on Jul 24, 2024 19:16:10 GMT -5
Definitely rehab. OB is borrowing trouble worrying about how she’ll react, because he likes to try to dictate rather than involving her and that devolves quickly. I called, discussed calmly with her that this was temporary and a necessary step towards getting her back home, and asked for her input on the options. She agreed that the facility hat was top of the list would be her preference too, mild reluctance but no histrionics.
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lurkyloo
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Post by lurkyloo on Jul 25, 2024 11:35:06 GMT -5
Okay. She needs a skilled nursing facility rather than acute rehab, but it sounds like the preferred facility is able to take her. I may need to call her investment firm and see if they’ll give me her SSN. I failed to put it together that medicare doesn’t pay for long term nursing home care, so of course most of their nursing home listings would be for acute skilled nursing care/rehab.
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lurkyloo
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Post by lurkyloo on Jul 26, 2024 13:45:56 GMT -5
Everything is set-she’s not thrilled about going to the SNF, but seems to have accepted it with a side of complaining. The Amazon package that went astray showed up eventually and OB made it there-which means I’m mostly excused from worrying about her for the next month
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lurkyloo
Junior Associate
“Time means nothing now,” said Toad. “It is just the thing that happens between snacks.”
Joined: Jan 8, 2011 11:26:56 GMT -5
Posts: 5,977
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Post by lurkyloo on Jul 29, 2024 15:43:27 GMT -5
Well, now I need to move the conversation over to convincing her that hPOA and durable fPOAs are a good idea, without triggering her defenses. Guess I better review today’s what are you doing thread discussion
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lurkyloo
Junior Associate
“Time means nothing now,” said Toad. “It is just the thing that happens between snacks.”
Joined: Jan 8, 2011 11:26:56 GMT -5
Posts: 5,977
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Post by lurkyloo on Jul 30, 2024 12:13:54 GMT -5
I think someone should be there with her the first week home, to ease the transition. OB is arguing either she’s able to live on her own or she isn’t, give or take a couple of days’ support…which, yeah but also right now she can just about stand up and hold on to a walker with encouragement and support, and it sounds like she’s liable to be released in another ten days or so. Wound takes about 3 weeks to heal, bone takes at least 6, sounds like a hip replacement can take 3 months. Really I think he just doesn’t want to have to change his scheduled side trip. ![](https://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/ymamsmiles/rolleyes2.gif) Guess I’ll look at flights…
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