Aging Parent Support Thread

[lurkyloo]

So.  Pretty sure I‘m overdue to post in this thread.
I‘ve made reference to this over on the what are you doing thread, but Dad is going downhill and refuses to either do his own adulting or give up any independence.  He is mostly deaf, easily distracted, rarely responds to email or texts or the doorbell for that matter.  He also insists on spending much of the year in his FL condo, living alone.  Here’s a rough timeline:

Summer:1-2 text messages, ignores most of what I send
Mid Oct-sends an „expect me tomorrow!“ text at 11:30 pm. (He often stops in MD to visit us on his drive down to FL).
Next day (Thurs) a police officer knocks on the door and asks us to come collect him since he was driving the wrong way on a major 45 mph road near our house.  He eats pizza and goes to bed.
Fri-I am working from home and catch him smoking pot in my house.  I yell. He doesn’t much care.
Fri night: 11 pm visit from a different police officer to report that he went for a walk, got lost, and was trying to enter strange houses (that looked like ours?), fell and hurt himself and requires stitches. Overnight in hospital (CT and bloodwork normal).
Sat: he seems at least moderately sheepish.
Sun: I realize he ignored the open bottle of red wine on the counter in favor of opening the keepsake bottle I saved from our wedding    More yelling.
DH organizes a flight, car shipping and limo ride to his condo since we’ve agreed he can’t handle the remaining 14 hour drive.  I try to set up his home health service (increased visits) and arrange a grocery delivery for the evening of his arrival.  We deliver him to the airport.
That evening he ignores my texts but texts DH his power is out.  We try to fix it but need part of his SSN.  He asks for the website instead.  We hear nothing further and assume he got it fixed.
Next morning he texts me that the groceries arrived but dinner never did and he‘s „a little hungry“  
We go back to normal. Six days later I get a call from condo association.  His power is still out, he walks away when they try to help, by the way he hasn‘t paid condo fees in months.  I spend two deeply frustrating hours on the phone closing his old account, paying the outstanding bill, and opening a new account in my name. Organize the home health aide visits, talk to the lawyer‘s office about paying the backlog of condo fees.  Order another grocery delivery to coincide with the aide visit.

Which brings us to today. The aide agency called to advise me they quit because of the smoke and smell-of course he didn’t clean the fridge, their aide threw up going in there. Recommend a deep cleaning agency.
I called another, more expensive health aide agency we’ve used before and scheduled them for tomorrow.  Finally get the bill from the lawyer-it is $3700 and asks me to certify I‘m the owner in the online payment option. Everyone keeps asking if I have POA; I go through what paperwork I have and determine that my (estranged) brother is POA.

So, I’ve emailed an update to my mother with the request that she pass it on.  I hope they’ll use the POA to pay the condo bill, but am willing to clear it pending confirmation that paying it now doesn’t mean I assume responsibility for it going forward. (I’ll still do it and keep receipts if I have to...but man.)

Thanks for listening to the vent.  Open to suggestions...I just wish it weren’t so frustrating.

[countrygirl2]

The guy needs to have adult services intervene. He obviously is not capable of living on his own.

I don't know what you are going to do with him. But that can't continue.    

[countrygirl2]

If he is in the hospital again, see if they will keep him for 48 hours and get him evaluated. If you have no power of attorney you will likely have to go to court to get guardianship. He is a danger to himself and others.

[ners]

lurkyloo

[busymom]

Yup, it's time to get social services involved.  But frankly, having lived in Florida, no agency there seems to do anything in a hurry down there.  Hope you get a more timely response in this case.  

[Deleted]

lurkyloo 

[saveinla]

Hugs lurkyloo. I don't have any suggestions, but please be kind to yourself.

[countrygirl2]

It's the same here, we tried for months to get Adult Services to help us and couldn't. It's a nightmare with some parents, getting something done. My best to you, its hard.

[lurkyloo]

So first off I read the boards all day but don’t post from my phone, so apologies if I’m late responding 
A few clarifications:  first, I think he qualifies as an alcoholic.  Sadly I think he would pass a cognitive test if sober; he’s just not much interested in being sober.  He hates the idea of assisted living, probably partly bc they wouldn’t let him drink and smoke pot all the time.  Different person when drunk or high and not overly concerned with others.  But rehab for an unmotivated 80yo doesn’t seem realistic either.

Second, he usually does noticeably better cognitively in FL than at home in the Midwest. It’s possible this will kick in.

DH and I more or less agree that he can mostly manage the basics (feeding himself, etc) given sufficient supports.  Right now there is an aide scheduled to visit 3x a week, 4 hours each, and supposed to call me or hopefully my mother (who is not working fulltime and supervising distance learning for a special needs kid) weekly to check in.  Aide will clean, cook, launder, etc. She will also report to us about whether he seems like he’s managing or not. I’ll continue grocery delivery.

We think he can drive short distances in familiar areas.  The driving incident here was an unfamiliar and confusing area after dark, at the end of an 8+ hour drive from the Midwest.

But...yeah.  This is basically a last ditch effort to see if he can manage with as much support as we can arrange. I don’t have a lot of hope that it will work.  I do have the contact info for social services.  I wonder if he had a mini stroke or something; he seems to have gone downhill quite a bit since even June...although it could also just be substance abuse.

Thanks all for the support 

[Tennesseer]

Nov 9, 2020 21:07:06 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

So.  Pretty sure I‘m overdue to post in this thread.
I‘ve made reference to this over on the what are you doing thread, but Dad is going downhill and refuses to either do his own adulting or give up any independence.  He is mostly deaf, easily distracted, rarely responds to email or texts or the doorbell for that matter.  He also insists on spending much of the year in his FL condo, living alone.  Here’s a rough timeline:

Summer:1-2 text messages, ignores most of what I send
Mid Oct-sends an „expect me tomorrow!“ text at 11:30 pm. (He often stops in MD to visit us on his drive down to FL).
Next day (Thurs) a police officer knocks on the door and asks us to come collect him since he was driving the wrong way on a major 45 mph road near our house.  He eats pizza and goes to bed.
Fri-I am working from home and catch him smoking pot in my house.  I yell. He doesn’t much care.
Fri night: 11 pm visit from a different police officer to report that he went for a walk, got lost, and was trying to enter strange houses (that looked like ours?), fell and hurt himself and requires stitches. Overnight in hospital (CT and bloodwork normal).
Sat: he seems at least moderately sheepish.
Sun: I realize he ignored the open bottle of red wine on the counter in favor of opening the keepsake bottle I saved from our wedding    More yelling.
DH organizes a flight, car shipping and limo ride to his condo since we’ve agreed he can’t handle the remaining 14 hour drive.  I try to set up his home health service (increased visits) and arrange a grocery delivery for the evening of his arrival.  We deliver him to the airport.
That evening he ignores my texts but texts DH his power is out.  We try to fix it but need part of his SSN.  He asks for the website instead.  We hear nothing further and assume he got it fixed.
Next morning he texts me that the groceries arrived but dinner never did and he‘s „a little hungry“  
We go back to normal. Six days later I get a call from condo association.  His power is still out, he walks away when they try to help, by the way he hasn‘t paid condo fees in months.  I spend two deeply frustrating hours on the phone closing his old account, paying the outstanding bill, and opening a new account in my name. Organize the home health aide visits, talk to the lawyer‘s office about paying the backlog of condo fees.  Order another grocery delivery to coincide with the aide visit.

Which brings us to today. The aide agency called to advise me they quit because of the smoke and smell-of course he didn’t clean the fridge, their aide threw up going in there. Recommend a deep cleaning agency.
I called another, more expensive health aide agency we’ve used before and scheduled them for tomorrow.  Finally get the bill from the lawyer-it is $3700 and asks me to certify I‘m the owner in the online payment option. Everyone keeps asking if I have POA; I go through what paperwork I have and determine that my (estranged) brother is POA.

So, I’ve emailed an update to my mother with the request that she pass it on.  I hope they’ll use the POA to pay the condo bill, but am willing to clear it pending confirmation that paying it now doesn’t mean I assume responsibility for it going forward. (I’ll still do it and keep receipts if I have to...but man.)

Thanks for listening to the vent.  Open to suggestions...I just wish it weren’t so frustrating.

You have the patience of a saint. Or at least the patience of a loving daughter.

[lurkyloo]

Nov 9, 2020 22:33:17 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Nov 9, 2020 21:07:06 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

So.  Pretty sure I‘m overdue to post in this thread.
I‘ve made reference to this over on the what are you doing thread, but Dad is going downhill and refuses to either do his own adulting or give up any independence.  He is mostly deaf, easily distracted, rarely responds to email or texts or the doorbell for that matter.  He also insists on spending much of the year in his FL condo, living alone.  Here’s a rough timeline:

Summer:1-2 text messages, ignores most of what I send
Mid Oct-sends an „expect me tomorrow!“ text at 11:30 pm. (He often stops in MD to visit us on his drive down to FL).
Next day (Thurs) a police officer knocks on the door and asks us to come collect him since he was driving the wrong way on a major 45 mph road near our house.  He eats pizza and goes to bed.
Fri-I am working from home and catch him smoking pot in my house.  I yell. He doesn’t much care.
Fri night: 11 pm visit from a different police officer to report that he went for a walk, got lost, and was trying to enter strange houses (that looked like ours?), fell and hurt himself and requires stitches. Overnight in hospital (CT and bloodwork normal).
Sat: he seems at least moderately sheepish.
Sun: I realize he ignored the open bottle of red wine on the counter in favor of opening the keepsake bottle I saved from our wedding    More yelling.
DH organizes a flight, car shipping and limo ride to his condo since we’ve agreed he can’t handle the remaining 14 hour drive.  I try to set up his home health service (increased visits) and arrange a grocery delivery for the evening of his arrival.  We deliver him to the airport.
That evening he ignores my texts but texts DH his power is out.  We try to fix it but need part of his SSN.  He asks for the website instead.  We hear nothing further and assume he got it fixed.
Next morning he texts me that the groceries arrived but dinner never did and he‘s „a little hungry“  
We go back to normal. Six days later I get a call from condo association.  His power is still out, he walks away when they try to help, by the way he hasn‘t paid condo fees in months.  I spend two deeply frustrating hours on the phone closing his old account, paying the outstanding bill, and opening a new account in my name. Organize the home health aide visits, talk to the lawyer‘s office about paying the backlog of condo fees.  Order another grocery delivery to coincide with the aide visit.

Which brings us to today. The aide agency called to advise me they quit because of the smoke and smell-of course he didn’t clean the fridge, their aide threw up going in there. Recommend a deep cleaning agency.
I called another, more expensive health aide agency we’ve used before and scheduled them for tomorrow.  Finally get the bill from the lawyer-it is $3700 and asks me to certify I‘m the owner in the online payment option. Everyone keeps asking if I have POA; I go through what paperwork I have and determine that my (estranged) brother is POA.

So, I’ve emailed an update to my mother with the request that she pass it on.  I hope they’ll use the POA to pay the condo bill, but am willing to clear it pending confirmation that paying it now doesn’t mean I assume responsibility for it going forward. (I’ll still do it and keep receipts if I have to...but man.)

Thanks for listening to the vent.  Open to suggestions...I just wish it weren’t so frustrating.

You have the patience of a saint. Or at least the patience of a loving daughter.

I dunno...I was so mad at him about the wedding wine I actually went in his room and woke him up so I could yell at him.  DH’s stated strategy was “Let’s get him out of our house and down to Florida because he can exist on his own down there and you’re about to break.”

[jerseygirl]

I’m so sad for you. Seems what services you’ve put in place will help him cope. But is there any way his car can be taken away. He is a danger to others. If he kills or hurts someone that will be so very difficult for you.
You are a kind and thoughtful daughter. Prayers for you and your dad

[finnime]

Hugs to you, lurkyloo. You can only do so much, and you're doing that. Maybe with the supports you've put in place he'll do all right this winter and spring. Thinking of you.

[buystoys]

I have no ideas to help you, but wanted to give you what support I can.  It's so difficult to manage a parent when they don't really want your help. 

[TheOtherMe]

It's so frustrating lurkyloo   If your brother has POA and is willing to handle things, let him.  Since my sister wouldn't take my suggestions or what I noticed, I finally decided to let her deal with it and I would continue the weekly grocery run.

It has to be more difficult from a distance.

[azucena]

Are mom and dad divorced but amicable?  Trying to understand how she fits in as your ally.

I agree that you need to take away the car if you can but it's so tricky.  Does he have a car payment?  Can you convince him to switch that money to uber?

[Bonny]

Nov 9, 2020 22:49:02 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

Nov 9, 2020 22:33:17 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

You have the patience of a saint. Or at least the patience of a loving daughter.

I dunno...I was so mad at him about the wedding wine I actually went in his room and woke him up so I could yell at him. [img alt="" src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/embarrassed.png" class="smile"]  DH’s stated strategy was “Let’s get him out of our house and down to Florida because he can exist on his own down there and you’re about to break.”

It's o.k. to get mad. I sure did over my Dad's games. They are acting up like selfish 5 year olds at this point and are seeing what they can get away with.

You can try contacting his doctor about the driving. Different states handle it differently but the Dr. can report him to the DMV, they will suspend his license until he passes a physical driving test.

Good luck. I know this is really hard. 

[Tennesseer]

I have mentioned in the past that music can be therapeutic for Alzheimer's disease sufferers.  Familiar songs and melodies can bring them out of their shells even if only for a very brief period.

The video below is of a woman who was once a ballerina for the NYC ballet.  Not only did she remember the melody but also the choreography for Swan Lake.

[snapdragon]

Sending virtual hugs lurkyloo.

[lurkyloo]

The car:  Driving the wrong way happened after driving 500 miles by himself then getting lost for an hour in unfamiliar (and honestly confusing) surroundings. I would try to put him on a restricted license if that was an option in his home state, but they are all or nothing and I’m hesitant to invoke the nuclear option.  Also, he won’t return to home state until next June unless forced to, not sure how much power they’d have meanwhile.

My parents are still married, against everyone’s better judgement.  My mother has many flaws and is also uninterested in moving to FL just because Dad wants to, but she is near pathologically responsible.  She’s arranged to pay the outstanding HOA fees and will lean on my brother to make sure they get paid going forward, also to try to take over payment responsibility for the aide (it’ll be around $1000 a month; I could pay it and would if necessary but it should come out of Dad’s accounts).  The HOA is tricky because the money is supposed to come out of a specific account that I don’t think we have immediate access to. Not my problem anymore, which is nice.

I’m primarily worried that he just won’t take the aide seriously enough to let her in...he’ll get distracted and shrug off the necessity of being there.  If he does that on a regular basis then I think we have to look seriously at the nuclear options.

(My mother continues to have a Depression era mindset about money, but truthfully I estimate they’re worth 4-8M.  They can afford whatever is necessary.  I’m happy and able to pay for whatever but Dad has been steadily gifting his kids the yearly limit in trying to legally transfer his wealth before he croaks, in his right mind he wouldn’t want me paying for everything personally.)

[TheOtherMe]

My parents both had the Depression area mindset.  Their estate was nothing compared to the size of your parents but they were very middle class.  Lower middle class many years of their lives.  They both said they were not able to start saving for retirement until my sister and I were gone.

They could not afford to help us pay for college and they didn't.

My mom was a waitress, minimum wage and tips.  According to my dad's second manager where he worked, he was very underpaid and that's when he got a substantial raise.  It wasn't enough to make up for all the lost years of not being able to save.

[lurkyloo]

Dad let the aide in and even texted she was there. Aide spent about six hours cleaning, instead of four she was scheduled for, long enough that I could place an emergency instacart order that included copious amounts of bleach.  Successfully outsourced exterminator scheduling to my mother, still working on scheduling a deep clean.

Still, it’s progress.

[lurkyloo]

Huh.  Just looked at the power of attorney document.  I’m listed as an alternate, but it specifically states that the alternates can make decisions etc on his behalf without being asked about the status of the primary.  So I guess I was legally empowered to set up a caregiver for him after all.

Imma still let my brother handle the paying for everything part (Dads money) though.  Wouldn’t want him to feel left out 

[TheOtherMe]

The POA written that way will help.

Dad's didn't have an alternate.  It listed my mom and then my sister.  I made sure mine has two alternates.  Things happen.

[countrygirl2]

Wow I don't envy you. But he has a wreck and they find out he has money like that, he won't for long.
You have a real mess, I sure hope it works out for you and your family.

[lurkyloo]

I spent the entire day not doing anything about Dad.  It was lovely.  I’ll try the deep clean companies again tomorrow (expect they may be less staffed/responsive rn due to Eta) and text Dad a reminder to let the d*** aide in again.

He did try to talk a bit when I called the aide yesterday-couldn’t hear me on the phone, which is standard, but he sounded good.  If he eats appropriately and we clear out some sources of stress then he may be a little more responsive.  I also discovered he left a prescription antidepressant behind when he left...I texted him to get it refilled, but if he didn’t and wound up in withdrawal from it that wouldn’t have helped. (Please hold any comments about how I should’ve mailed it to him, I drew a hard line against mailing shit he left behind bc I am barely afloat and trying to make it to the post office during business hours would likely break me.)

Dad has always relied on Mom to manage the executive function side of life.  It’s a double edged sword bc she’s very hard to live with (as is he right now) and as previously mentioned he typically functions better in FL, presumably at least partly due to decreased stress.

Someone mentioned him not wanting help, and that’s not entirely accurate...he wants help but only on his terms.  Basically he wants someone else to do the hard, annoying or tedious parts and then leave him alone to do exactly as he likes.  That’s frustrating but doable, if he’d just freaking cooperate enough to stay home and let people in when he’s notified to expect them.

[azucena]

Your last sentence made me think of an option - we installed an electronic keypad on our door last year.  One of the side benefits is that we can set short term codes to let people in.  Maybe that's an option.  It has a key too.  It works with an app and lets us know when someone comes in/out - that may also be an easy way to 'track' him.

Are you already tracking his phone just in case?

[buystoys]

So sorry this is dragging on for you lurkyloo.  I know it can be so stressful to try to work with a recalcitrant parent. 

[lurkyloo]

Nov 12, 2020 9:13:26 GMT -5 azucena said:

Your last sentence made me think of an option - we installed an electronic keypad on our door last year.  One of the side benefits is that we can set short term codes to let people in.  Maybe that's an option.  It has a key too.  It works with an app and lets us know when someone comes in/out - that may also be an easy way to 'track' him.

Are you already tracking his phone just in case?

That’s a really good idea.  I’d thought of electronic keypads, but didn’t realize they could be programmed with short term codes.  Do you happen to have model info, and/or the name of the app? I know he’s forgotten his keys at least twice when heading down there, so I expect he’d be open to it as a possibility.

I think I made him activate find my friends, but I’m not very good at using it.  Recommendations for other? He’s got an iphone 6, I am considering getting him a newer model. I’m not really sure whether me tracking his phone would do much good from up here.

[azucena]

Nov 12, 2020 10:04:45 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

Nov 12, 2020 9:13:26 GMT -5 azucena said:

Your last sentence made me think of an option - we installed an electronic keypad on our door last year.  One of the side benefits is that we can set short term codes to let people in.  Maybe that's an option.  It has a key too.  It works with an app and lets us know when someone comes in/out - that may also be an easy way to 'track' him.

Are you already tracking his phone just in case?

That’s a really good idea.  I’d thought of electronic keypads, but didn’t realize they could be programmed with short term codes.  Do you happen to have model info, and/or the name of the app? I know he’s forgotten his keys at least twice when heading down there, so I expect he’d be open to it as a possibility.

I think I made him activate find my friends, but I’m not very good at using it.  Recommendations for other? He’s got an iphone 6, I am considering getting him a newer model. I’m not really sure whether me tracking his phone would do much good from up here.

Husband is the gadget guy and he's out for the day.  I'd just check Amazon for reviews of one - it has its own app which is easy enough to use.  I haven't spent much time with it because it's his toy.  I know we've laughed about being able to give our girls different codes and track their comings/goings as teens