Aging Parent Support Thread

[Bonny]

Thanks everyone for your kind words and support. It's really helpful.

DH has e-mail MIL's psychologist and will follow up with a phone call on Friday. Hopefully we can get some help.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Bonny, yikes. I'm so sorry. 

The advantage to DH having seven siblings is that the burden doesn't fall completely on him nor the one sister. The two druggie siblings actually do a decent amount of "baby sitting" their mom, so that's helpful. They're also buying her marijuana to help with her pain. In some ways I'm thoroughly annoyed with that; but I also don't want MIL to be in pain. 
 
There seems to be a bit of consensus that MIL is physically deteriorating. DH does want to go see his mom, so we're trying to work out a plan for that. It's not a distance issue; it's a time issue right now. It's a three-hour drive, but we have other odd job and health challenges dominating our schedules. 

The normal SIL who was on the cross-country trip does have her name on all of MIL's accounts and house. That all happened during the last "I'm going to die" round. MIL does want to buy druggie SIL a house, and normal SIL will make sure that doesn't happen at the expense of MIL's quality of life. 

[countrygirl2]

Hubs aunt got so bad, she was the mess, she was calling the cops constantly.  She had it in for a young guy across the road.  She tried to get him in trouble, he had a felony when young and he was panicked.  I kept telling him don't worry.  But for quite awhile her son was believing her!  He put locks on the doors, cameras up, she would take them down.  She claimed he sh** in her floor, woded up TP all over the house.  How that cop could sit there and listen to that was beyond me.  I finally told the cops, don't call me call the son, let him deal with it.  Like I said before he wouldn't believe it until they took her on a trip to California, she wouldn't bathe, didn't want to change her clothes, they had problems getting her to eat so it wasn't long after that.  I had told him, I'm not taking care of her I had 2 already and I could not do 3, I wanted to say while you vacation all winter but did not.

Then MIL started taking on some of those actions.  She didn't agree but her sister would get mad if she didn't agree with her.  But she would lose her money, her car keys, was having a wrecker come over because someone stole her keys!  I told them don't do that, she hides that stuff.  I found her things everywhere.  I had extra keys kept here.  She was backing into posts, etc, she did quit driving willingly.  I took her in to the doc, he tested her for dementia, she failed them all.  When we left she said, well I sure did good on those didn't I?  I couldn't believe she thought she did, I explained, no you didn't pass any of them.

They moved her sister first, then MIL was totally lost, neither of them was eating anything but dollar pizzas and ice cream, we found tons of ice cream buckets, no wonder her mind was messed up. She didn't last long, she was driving the neighbors crazy, they were worrying about her too and calling me.  She liked to walk and she would go way down the road, people got concerned she would get turned around and get lost.  I tried taking her to the grocer she would buy nothing, said she had plenty of food. Take her out to eat McD's was it or wouldn't go.  Take food over, she didn't eat it.  She got increasingly forgetful and I told hubs we had to do something.  She cussed both of us and of course blamed me, I was responsible for it.  We took her to court she appeared before the judge, didn't even understand we were getting guardianship.  


I feel for all of you, its been a nightmare.  It's still going on but at least we know she is fed, clothes, kept clean, now has her toenails done!! She is safe there and we hope can live there for many many years.

[TheOtherMe]

Sister called last night.  The small church here in town that has been delivering meals to dad on Friday for the weekend is no longer doing meals.  There has become an issue with the use of food from the Food Pantry, which most of the non-profits around here use.  Most of the non-profits serving food here are religious affiliated.  

The Food Pantry merged with a different group.  The Food Pantry was receiving some food from the USDA.  The new group interprets the rules from the USDA that the food can not be prayed over.  The non-profits can not afford to pay full price for the food.  The program dad has been using has chosen to close.  The new group also says donations to offset expenses can not be accepted.  

Dad and I went to one together to see if he liked the food.  Everybody put a $5 bill in the basket, even though it was a free will offering.  

My guess is this church is like the church sister used to attend and it can not afford to foot the entire bill for this program, so it's over.  

She was going to help him with his grocery list for tomorrow as he needs to eat something besides oatmeal and m & m's on the weekend (besides Dairy Queen).  

The facility where he lives was without cable television for 5 days.  Residents and families have been livid.  This is what elderly people do to while away their days.  They did add some activities, but dad was only interested in bingo.  There was only one extra bingo session.  

It's like every place we turn for help, things do not improve.  They are only short term solutions to a long term problem.

His skin has gotten very thin.  Somehow his arm started bleeding while getting his pacemaker checked yesterday.  He is not to use bandaids as taking them off makes him bleed.  He is to use gauze and tape the gauze.  

[empress of self-improvement]

Treading Chloe: I want to say I'm thankful for DH's five siblings but right now i think they're all jackasses. One brother said their mother, who has dementia, wanted to change her poa from one to him. this brother also gifted himself the Flirida condo their parents had as he and his wife are big fans of Florida. Shit hit the fan and I just don't care. Now they're all sniping at each other and DH fell asleep in the lawyer's office last week. We can tell how much he cares too!
My uncle is also in the hospital and not doing terribly well. He's still in ICU but his breathing tube was removed. Unfortunately, he is not particularly aware and with it, so that sucks. I wish I could go down to New Orleans but alas, I can't leave DH and there is no chance in hell I am ever flying anywhere with him. I'd kill him first. Bleah. This sucks all around. It really does. Plus I had a husband situation so I got to be an hour late to work tonight. That was a treat.

[NoNamePerson]

Jun 5, 2019 20:02:02 GMT -5 empress of self-improvement said:

Treading Chloe: I want to say I'm thankful for DH's five siblings but right now i think they're all jackasses. One brother said their mother, who has dementia, wanted to change her poa from one to him. this brother also gifted himself the Flirida condo their parents had as he and his wife are big fans of Florida. Shit hit the fan and I just don't care. Now they're all sniping at each other and DH fell asleep in the lawyer's office last week. We can tell how much he cares too!
My uncle is also in the hospital and not doing terribly well. He's still in ICU but his breathing tube was removed. Unfortunately, he is not particularly aware and with it, so that sucks. I wish I could go down to New Orleans but alas, I can't leave DH and there is no chance in hell I am ever flying anywhere with him. I'd kill him first. Bleah. This sucks all around. It really does. Plus I had a husband situation so I got to be an hour late to work tonight. That was a treat.

I don't know how you do it.

[empress of self-improvement]

Jun 5, 2019 20:32:32 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

Jun 5, 2019 20:02:02 GMT -5 empress of self-improvement said:

Treading Chloe: I want to say I'm thankful for DH's five siblings but right now i think they're all jackasses. One brother said their mother, who has dementia, wanted to change her poa from one to him. this brother also gifted himself the Flirida condo their parents had as he and his wife are big fans of Florida. Shit hit the fan and I just don't care. Now they're all sniping at each other and DH fell asleep in the lawyer's office last week. We can tell how much he cares too!
My uncle is also in the hospital and not doing terribly well. He's still in ICU but his breathing tube was removed. Unfortunately, he is not particularly aware and with it, so that sucks. I wish I could go down to New Orleans but alas, I can't leave DH and there is no chance in hell I am ever flying anywhere with him. I'd kill him first. Bleah. This sucks all around. It really does. Plus I had a husband situation so I got to be an hour late to work tonight. That was a treat.

I don't know how you do it.

Neither do I! Especially with no alcohol involved whatsoever. It's scary!

[NoNamePerson]

Jun 5, 2019 21:13:03 GMT -5 empress of self-improvement said:

Jun 5, 2019 20:32:32 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

I don't know how you do it.

Neither do I! Especially with no alcohol involved whatsoever. It's scary!

OT but I just noticed your avatar!! Tooo funny.

[Bonny]

Jun 5, 2019 21:13:03 GMT -5 empress of self-improvement said:

Jun 5, 2019 20:32:32 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

I don't know how you do it.

Neither do I! Especially with no alcohol involved whatsoever. It's scary!

You are stronger than you give yourself credit for.

[Tennesseer]

Opinion

Is your loved one in a nursing home? Here's why you should be alarmed

All Americans should be deeply troubled by news that hundreds of nursing homes with a "persistent record of poor care" were kept secret by government authorities.

They should be equally alarmed that, although the Trump administration says it really cares about this issue, the reality is that it has relaxed oversight of the industry, potentially placing seniors in jeopardy.

It's a matter that goes way beyond the estimated 1.3 million people now in nursing homes. As the median age of the U.S. population steadily rises, more and more of us will be turning to senior care facilities for aging parents and, eventually, ourselves.

"You'd like to think you could expect high-quality care, but that's not the case," said Eric Carlson, an attorney with Justice in Aging, a nonprofit organization focused on senior poverty.

"People should be worried - not sky-is-falling worried, but I-need-to-do-my-homework worried," he told me. "You can't take anything for granted."

Full article here: Is your loved one in a nursing home? Here's why you should be alarmed

[Bonny]

Jun 15, 2019 9:37:51 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Opinion

Is your loved one in a nursing home? Here's why you should be alarmed

All Americans should be deeply troubled by news that hundreds of nursing homes with a "persistent record of poor care" were kept secret by government authorities.

They should be equally alarmed that, although the Trump administration says it really cares about this issue, the reality is that it has relaxed oversight of the industry, potentially placing seniors in jeopardy.

It's a matter that goes way beyond the estimated 1.3 million people now in nursing homes. As the median age of the U.S. population steadily rises, more and more of us will be turning to senior care facilities for aging parents and, eventually, ourselves.

"You'd like to think you could expect high-quality care, but that's not the case," said Eric Carlson, an attorney with Justice in Aging, a nonprofit organization focused on senior poverty.

"People should be worried - not sky-is-falling worried, but I-need-to-do-my-homework worried," he told me. "You can't take anything for granted."

Full article here: Is your loved one in a nursing home? Here's why you should be alarmed

Good thing my father doesn't spend time on the internet!

I would hope people do some homework on institutions before placing their loved ones in one. I think some of the smaller ones could be in real trouble if they have trouble staffing them.

[Bonny]

And an update on the MIL...

It's now been two weeks since she hung up on DH and requested no contact. 10 days since DH reached out to her psychologist requesting a telephone appt with no response. I've been tempted to reach out to her estate lawyer to see if MIL has been in touch with him but I wanted to wait until we spoke to the psychologist. DH was gone last week and will call him Monday.

After talking with DH again this a.m. we're both wondering if the "wonderful" caregiver isn't doing some financial manipulation of her own.

[TheOtherMe]

Bonny  I would be wondering the same thing about the caregiver  

I see arrests here for financial elderly fraud from caregivers.  Most here even are getting a small amount of jail time and ordered to pay restitution.  My guess is since they have spent the money, the jail time is all that happens to them.  Hired caregivers, adult children, siblings and grandchildren have all been sent to jail here in the last couple of years.

One was a prominent realtor.  Her business dried up as a realtor because of what she did financially to her mother.

[countrygirl2]

Our one here in our small community, has the highest rating possible.  The state was so suspect, they sprang several surprise inspections on it.  It still came through with flying colors, I'm so happy we have something like that here in our community.  The assisted living is the same.  

These 2 facilities are employee owned, that might make the difference also.

[Bonny]

It's been 3.5 weeks and still no contact from MIL. I asked DH if she's ever done something like this before and he said no.

He's very, very angry. The situation with the psychologist went nowhere. DH sent him an e-mail, followed up a week later with his office, re-sent the e-mail, contacted the office again, faxed the e-mail and finally got a response back. Psychologist says he can't talk to DH without MIL also being on the phone. DH wrote back and questioned if that was true even with the medical POA? He got no response. This was last week.

I've put in a call to DH's aunt. She's a former social worker and was present during a previous visit. DH says she said she won't visit MIL again as MIL's behavior was so bad.

I want to talk to DH's aunt first but then I think the next steps are to contact MIL's attorney and social services to do a wellness check. I'm really concerned for MIL's mental health and how the caregiver may be manipulating the situation.

DH just wants to pull the plug and not deal with her. He wants to call the caregiver, tell her she needs to resign or he'll call the authorities to have her deported. He knows that no one will work for his mother and it will force her to go into a facility.

This is a really awful situation.

[raeoflyte]

Hugs Bonny.  Both situations with your dad and your MIL are too much to deal with, but to have them both going on has to exhausting.  

[CCL]

There is such a thing as a mental health (psychiatric) power of attorney or advance directive. That might be helpful, although she may not agree to one at this point (I'm assuming you don't have one.)

Found this info with a quick search:

www.mentalhealthamerica.net/psychiatric-advance-directive

www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-professionals/special-topics/mental-health/index.html

[TheOtherMe]

I'm sorry Bonny

[Bonny]

Jun 26, 2019 14:18:01 GMT -5 CCL said:

There is such a thing as a mental health (psychiatric) power of attorney or advance directive. That might be helpful, although she may not agree to one at this point (I'm assuming you don't have one.)

Found this info with a quick search:

www.mentalhealthamerica.net/psychiatric-advance-directive

www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-professionals/special-topics/mental-health/index.html

We both have a Durable Power of Attorney which specifically allows for Release of Medical Records as well as a Authorization to Verbally Disclose Protected Health Information which she further initialed Mental Health Treatment.

I don't know why the psychologist won't talk to DH unless she revoked them and you would think the psychologist would say your POA has been revoked and I can't talk to you.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jun 26, 2019 16:59:19 GMT -5 Bonny said:

Jun 26, 2019 14:18:01 GMT -5 CCL said:

There is such a thing as a mental health (psychiatric) power of attorney or advance directive. That might be helpful, although she may not agree to one at this point (I'm assuming you don't have one.)

Found this info with a quick search:

www.mentalhealthamerica.net/psychiatric-advance-directive

www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-professionals/special-topics/mental-health/index.html

We both have a Durable Power of Attorney which specifically allows for Release of Medical Records as well as a Authorization to Verbally Disclose Protected Health Information which she further initialed Mental Health Treatment.

I don't know why the psychologist won't talk to DH unless she revoked them and you would think the psychologist would say your POA has been revoked and I can't talk to you.

Some doctors have no clue how HIPAA actually works. My mom had one argue with her over my grandmother. Mom types those documents for a living. She sent him a copy of the documents and the form that authorized her to talk to him and said next step was a lawyer. He talked.

[countrygirl2]

Hubs and I have all that in place was done when he worked overseas, we never knew what could happen.  We have all this for MIL and DD too, have spent a lot getting all these prepared.

[buystoys]

So, so sorry to hear your troubles continuing, Bonny.  I hope the situation resolves itself without problems.

[Bonny]

I did hear back from the psychologist yesterday evening. He states the durable POA only kicks in when MIL is "Legally incapacitated". That is not the language in the POA and wasn't our understanding.

Still waiting for the call from her attorney to get clarification.

[countrygirl2]

In the tough place, hard to get anything done at this point.  Once you do it will get somewhat easier.  Hard to take care of declining parents, sad we have to do these things.

[TheOtherMe]

Good luck Bonny

[Bonny]

Heard back from the atty yesterday. MIL has not spoken to him in about two years. He did warn that she could use someone else but that usually if someone uses another attorney, the new attorney does check in with the old attorney even though it's not required by law. I told DH that I was pretty sure MIL would go back to the original atty because she gets a discount through some kind of legal services group and if there's one thing I know about my MIL is that she loves her money (and using it for power over other people).

The problem with the Durable POA seems to be that there is no "springing" language in the Durable POA. Even after looking up the term I'm not sure I understand the problem. Tagging swamp requesting some help understanding the difference.

The attorney is going to check with his HIPAA specialist. I'm supposed to hear back Monday or Tuesday.

[buystoys]

Keeping my fingers crossed that there will be a positive resolution for you, Bonny.

[swamp]

Jun 29, 2019 18:06:47 GMT -5 Bonny said:

Heard back from the atty yesterday. MIL has not spoken to him in about two years. He did warn that she could use someone else but that usually if someone uses another attorney, the new attorney does check in with the old attorney even though it's not required by law. I told DH that I was pretty sure MIL would go back to the original atty because she gets a discount through some kind of legal services group and if there's one thing I know about my MIL is that she loves her money (and using it for power over other people).

The problem with the Durable POA seems to be that there is no "springing" language in the Durable POA. Even after looking up the term I'm not sure I understand the problem. Tagging swamp requesting some help understanding the difference.

The attorney is going to check with his HIPAA specialist. I'm supposed to hear back Monday or Tuesday.

Springing means that if there is a specific event, the POA goes into effect.     Most docs don't want to be the "springer" so I don't see that language very often.  I won't write one that way. 

She may have revoked the POA.     She may be mentally ill, but she has a right to act against her own best interests. 

[Bonny]

Jul 1, 2019 10:43:58 GMT -5 swamp said:

Jun 29, 2019 18:06:47 GMT -5 Bonny said:

Heard back from the atty yesterday. MIL has not spoken to him in about two years. He did warn that she could use someone else but that usually if someone uses another attorney, the new attorney does check in with the old attorney even though it's not required by law. I told DH that I was pretty sure MIL would go back to the original atty because she gets a discount through some kind of legal services group and if there's one thing I know about my MIL is that she loves her money (and using it for power over other people).

The problem with the Durable POA seems to be that there is no "springing" language in the Durable POA. Even after looking up the term I'm not sure I understand the problem. Tagging swamp requesting some help understanding the difference.

The attorney is going to check with his HIPAA specialist. I'm supposed to hear back Monday or Tuesday.

Springing means that if there is a specific event, the POA goes into effect.     Most docs don't want to be the "springer" so I don't see that language very often.  I won't write one that way. 

She may have revoked the POA.     She may be mentally ill, but she has a right to act against her own best interests. 

Thanks Swamp. As far as we can tell she hasn't revoked the DPOA.

Article 35 says "This Durable Power of Attorney shall take effect on its execution".

It was signed (and notarized) on August 15, 2013.

ETA: Article 34 states: Durability. The powers granted to my Agent under this power of attorney shall continue (my emphasis) to be exercisable even though I have become disabled or incompetent.

Logically these statements imply that the POA is currently in effect and will not cease even when she could be declared incompetent.

 

[Bonny]

Update: Yesterday I finally reached MIL's attorney to follow up on the status of the DPOA. This was my third attempt to follow up. The attorney advised me that "His client has advised him to not speak to us". I guess I shouldn't have been surprised but I was.

He was generally helpful trying to give some basic advice without violating his fiduciary to his MIL. He seemed to understand that we really are trying to help MIL. He has seen this before as his clients age. While he gave me referrals to attorneys who do conservatorships, his advice was to back down a bit and seek some counseling with someone who specializes in this kind of stuff.