weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 7, 2017 13:03:41 GMT -5
I got thrown out of a church for wearing pants.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 7, 2017 13:04:51 GMT -5
women are always trying to corrupt us. Started with Eve in all her naked glory. As American as apple pie .......except that apple pie is British.
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milee
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Post by milee on Sept 7, 2017 13:10:39 GMT -5
I got thrown out of a church for wearing pants. My first professional job required women to wear skirt suits with hose underneath (in Phoenix) and expressly prohibited pants. I followed those rules for a few years until I had skills and power that they couldn't replace at which time I called BS on that and got the rules changed. Similar to the issue of breastfeeding at church, at a board meeting or in the presence of an important person. The customs that imply breastfeeding is offensive and women were unimportant and should be at home tending to things were established when men were more important, had the knowledge/power and were in charge. This is no longer the case. My skills are valuable, my presence is equally important and I don't care to follow those customs any more. If the men do not like that, they can avert their eyes or stay home.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Sept 7, 2017 13:10:46 GMT -5
No it isn't weltschmerz it's either German or Dutch but the expression claiming it for the country is pure American
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justme
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Post by justme on Sept 7, 2017 13:16:47 GMT -5
You know what I've never quite figured it? Why it was decided the super fancy clothing was what you wore to honor God. I mean, his original design was to have us naked as the day we were born every day. Wouldn't it be more honorific if you dressed in the manner he designed? And therefore a boob out there to feed a kid isn't contrary.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Sept 7, 2017 13:32:51 GMT -5
I got thrown out of a church for wearing pants. were you wearing them on your boobs?
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Sept 7, 2017 13:43:34 GMT -5
Hot pants + breastfeeding = pornography. That woman needs a better sex life. If her husband is getting all distracted and horny over breastfeeding, he needs one too.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Sept 7, 2017 13:51:53 GMT -5
I never took my baby to church. I was a heathen.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 13:57:59 GMT -5
I never took my baby to church. I was a heathen. I used to, then I realized what Hoops pointed out, that kids got more out of being anywhere else...and so did I. That was the end of that. Well, except for my high school kid that goes to a Catholic school. He still has to go to mass occasionally.
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toomuchreality
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Post by toomuchreality on Sept 7, 2017 13:58:35 GMT -5
I don't attend church often. One time I went with my sister to her church (same religion as me) back in the mid to late 70's. A woman sitting on the first row, with very large sagging boobs, whips them both out at the same time and nursed her 1-2 yr old baby on one breast and a 5-6 yr old on the other. No blanket or attempt to be discrete. It was not attractive. She clearly knew she'd be at church for a period of time, but made no plans for this type situation. A small glassed in room was available at the back, but she stayed where she was. The older child kept talking a 'playing' with her boobs, while he nursed. It was very distracting. It was the 1st time I'd seen this done. I was less than impressed.
Personally, I think 5-6 yrs old is too old to still be nursing unless you're really that destitute. In which case, some discretion should be used.
I nursed and supplemented. I was never very successful nursing in a public area, even if I was covered.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Sept 7, 2017 14:14:05 GMT -5
Hosts are gracious to individuals with medical conditions they can't work around, but this is a separate category from clearly elective activities like breastfeeding. If circumstances arise where a mother must reasonably bring her infant to church, the infant must be fed during services, and the feeding must be conducted in public, then accommodations should be made. As for your views on the appropriateness of breastfeeding, the relevant question is: if the protocol for meeting with the Queen, etc., which was set by the controllers of her household, forbade public breast feeding, would you honour the protocol? Would you resent the controllers for establishing the protocol? 1. Eating is elective? There are some kids who absolutely will not take a bottle. 2. If the queen told me i couldnt' breastfeed in her presence, i would honor it. I honor the requests of people who are hosting me. It doesn't mean taht i won't resent her or think she's wrong. That is what is key to me. It is the backlash that everyone wants to start that pisses me off. I breastfed but would never have considered doing it publicly. It was no big deal to plan feedings around outings. To each their own. If someone is discreet about breastfeeding I can see it. But for the women that just pop their boobs out? I disagree with that.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Sept 7, 2017 14:15:52 GMT -5
She could be more diplomatic with her wording, and the rhetoric at the end is mean-spirited. Having said this, I suspect this thread would be here regardless of how diplomatically she'd expressed this particular opinion. No, i only posted it because of the nastiness of the tone. My DH didn't like me breastfeeding in public. I told him he could suck it. Well...that actually WOULD be pornography!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 14:24:04 GMT -5
1. Eating is elective? There are some kids who absolutely will not take a bottle. 2. If the queen told me i couldnt' breastfeed in her presence, i would honor it. I honor the requests of people who are hosting me. It doesn't mean taht i won't resent her or think she's wrong. That is what is key to me. It is the backlash that everyone wants to start that pisses me off. I breastfed but would never have considered doing it publicly. It was no big deal to plan feedings around outings. To each their own. If someone is discreet about breastfeeding I can see it. But for the women that just pop their boobs out? I disagree with that. If your outings are less than an hour or two maybe, but otherwise, it can be hard to avoid. I didn't stay home because I had a nursing baby, so we'd go to the state fair, or attend older son's games out of town and stuff like that, add in that going anywhere, even to the nearest church involves 40 minutes of driving for us and we could be gone from 7am until late at night sometimes. Sometimes the van was nearby and I spent a lot of time nursing in there, but it wasn't always possible.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Sept 7, 2017 14:28:47 GMT -5
Ok. Another serious question here. After asking my questions, you all were kind enough to respond. I've seen a couple of people say there are some babies who simply will not take a bottle. So what happens to those babies if the mother is unable to breastfeed for whatever reason. How do they get nourishment? I remember there used to be wetnurses for the rich people, but I've not heard of anyone doing that lately.
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Post by empress of self-improvement on Sept 7, 2017 14:29:41 GMT -5
I never took my baby to church. I was a heathen. I used to, then I realized what Hoops pointed out, that kids got more out of being anywhere else...and so did I. That was the end of that. Well, except for my high school kid that goes to a Catholic school. He still has to go to mass occasionally. Yeah, I guess my parents took me to church right up until the day I stuck my face in a nice hot radiator and burned my nose. I think I was about 4 or 5. I remember nothing about this incident but did ask my dad where the big red scab across my nose in a picture came from and that was his answer. Huh. Now if he would have explained why I was wearing the dog leash in the same said picture, that would have been appreciated. Now I just go to church if I want to see a good fire or take a nap. (Sorry irishpad!)
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Sept 7, 2017 14:41:25 GMT -5
Ok. Another serious question here. After asking my questions, you all were kind enough to respond. I've seen a couple of people say there are some babies who simply will not take a bottle. So what happens to those babies if the mother is unable to breastfeed for whatever reason. How do they get nourishment? I remember there used to be wetnurses for the rich people, but I've not heard of anyone doing that lately. My milk never came in for my first. It can happen with PCOSers. DS took a bottle. We tried with using a supplemental nursing system (SNS)..to get him to breastfeed. He figured out how to suck on the little tubing like it was a straw. So, that ended that. We put the other two on bottles/formula right away. My milk did come in. I'm not sure about what I'm going to do with this one, yet. I hate pumping...but I might give it a whirl. ETA: It depends on the kid...too..I'm sure I'll go to motherhood hell for saying this, but OMG, I thank my lucky stars we bottle fed the peanut. There's no way we would have survived if we breastfed ger. She's stubborn enough that she likely would have held out and only nursed from me. Which gets to be a problem with my schedule. I know I'm supposed to work, and go to school and parent all while having a kid attached to my boob. But I'm not sure I can.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 14:48:17 GMT -5
Ok. Another serious question here. After asking my questions, you all were kind enough to respond. I've seen a couple of people say there are some babies who simply will not take a bottle. So what happens to those babies if the mother is unable to breastfeed for whatever reason. How do they get nourishment? I remember there used to be wetnurses for the rich people, but I've not heard of anyone doing that lately. They typically get conditioned to the breast in the first couple months and then won't switch. If they start with the bottle right away they might not take the breast, so most women who want to EBF avoid bottles the first month or so and then introduce them later. Worked great for my younger one and he'd go back and forth between the two, but not when I fed him. If it was a bottle it had to be from someone else, he knew I had a better option. Older just straight up refused to change his ways. I was a SAHM with him, so it never mattered. Had I needed to go back to work, I might have worked with him more on it.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 7, 2017 14:50:03 GMT -5
No it isn't weltschmerz it's either German or Dutch but the expression claiming it for the country is pure American The first apple pie recipe on record dates back to 1381 out of England. It's kind of on par with "As American as apple pie and Motherhood!"
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 7, 2017 14:52:14 GMT -5
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 7, 2017 14:52:48 GMT -5
Ok. Another serious question here. After asking my questions, you all were kind enough to respond. I've seen a couple of people say there are some babies who simply will not take a bottle. So what happens to those babies if the mother is unable to breastfeed for whatever reason. How do they get nourishment? I remember there used to be wetnurses for the rich people, but I've not heard of anyone doing that lately. I assume they eventually take the bottle. Gwen went on a two week hunger strike but she eventually started taking bottles at daycare. That was the only place she would tkae one though. She screamed for 3 hours straight when my parents watched her, same with MIL. My MIL actually called us one rattled because Gwen would not stop squalling and she'd tried 4 different types of bottles. Abby was different, she didn't give two whits where her food came from as long as she was being fed. You pick your battles. I was paying daycare $630 a month, in exchange I expect them to put up with her till she takes a bottle. I'm not going to subject people in church to that, not when there is a a feeding method she will take quietly attached to my chest. If we were going someplace where I couldn't nurse or we were leaving Gwen behind we'd make an appearance and then leave. Such as the company holiday party, no where to pump and not for kids. I breastfed right before we left, we stayed long enough to shake hands and chat, then left. When we went to Vala's Pumpkin Patch on the other hand the drive alone is 45 minutes and it's not an area where you can easily set up a pump. So I nursed while we were there. We were able to enjoy the outing without worrying about the ticking time bomb that was my boobs. I was already pumping 4x a day to just to keep up with daycare. I wasn't going to add in more just to appease strangers.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 7, 2017 14:55:02 GMT -5
I got thrown out of a church for wearing pants. were you wearing them on your boobs? You would think so, but...no. Actually I was asked to remove myself from a Russian Orthodox church and a monastery in New York state. Damned heathen wearing men's clothing and all that.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Sept 7, 2017 14:58:34 GMT -5
Meh, I think kids probably get a lot more out of being somewhere else with something geared towards them than they do sitting in a church service waiting for it to be over...or playing with toys quietly like most seem to during the adult services. Depends on the kid. yep. Neither of mine would willingly be separated from me at Mass, when they were younger. There would be tears and probably vomiting on my son's part if we'd forced it. I did breastfeed in church but in the crying/family room. I usually used a cover or loosely knitted afghan - they were big enough to toss over a shoulder and provide cover.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 7, 2017 15:04:46 GMT -5
MIl's church doesn't have a crying /family room which doesn't shock me since the youngest person in the congregation is about 75.
I made do. At first they put me in the office, but then someone didn't like that. I wasn't comfortable doing it in the common room because there wasn't really a place to sit. I refused to nurse in the bathroom.
So DH and I decided if MIL wanted us to attend that she had to accept we'd make it work. Otherwise didn't go, which is more often than not because I am an atheist. But there have been times when it hasn't been worth fighting with DH and MIL over so I go to make them happy.
I have wanted to say that if they want to attract new younger members they might want to start with a family room and a freaking changing table in the restroom.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Sept 7, 2017 15:06:55 GMT -5
Ok. Another serious question here. After asking my questions, you all were kind enough to respond. I've seen a couple of people say there are some babies who simply will not take a bottle. So what happens to those babies if the mother is unable to breastfeed for whatever reason. How do they get nourishment? I remember there used to be wetnurses for the rich people, but I've not heard of anyone doing that lately. I assume they eventually take the bottle. Gwen went on a two week hunger strike but she eventually started taking bottles at daycare. That was the only place she would tkae one though. She screamed for 3 hours straight when my parents watched her, same with MIL. My MIL actually called us one rattled because Gwen would not stop squalling and she'd tried 4 different types of bottles. Abby was different, she didn't give two whits where her food came from as long as she was being fed. You pick your battles. I was paying daycare $630 a month, in exchange I expect them to put up with her till she takes a bottle. I'm not going to subject people in church to that, not when there is a a feeding method she will take quietly attached to my chest. If we were going someplace where I couldn't nurse or we were leaving Gwen behind we'd make an appearance and then leave. Such as the company holiday party, no where to pump and not for kids. I breastfed right before we left, we stayed long enough to shake hands and chat, then left. When we went to Vala's Pumpkin Patch on the other hand the drive alone is 45 minutes and it's not an area where you can easily set up a pump. So I nursed while we were there. We were able to enjoy the outing without worrying about the ticking time bomb that was my boobs. I was already pumping 4x a day to just to keep up with daycare. I wasn't going to add in more just to appease strangers. one of mine wouldn't take a bottle if I was around. And it took multiple tries to get them on the bottle. I had 3 months leave so we were trying to get them on bottles before I went back to work.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Sept 7, 2017 15:09:25 GMT -5
MIl's church doesn't have a crying /family room which doesn't shock me since the youngest person in the congregation is about 75. I made do. At first they put me in the office, but then someone didn't like that. I wasn't comfortable doing it in the common room because there wasn't really a place to sit. I refused to d in the bathroom. So Dh and I decided if MIL wanted us to attend that she had to accept we'd make it work. Otherwise didn't go, which is more often than not because I am an atheist. But there have been times when it wasn't worth fighting with her about. I have wanted to say that if they want to attract new younger members they might want to start with making the place more family accomdating such as having a family room and maybe a freaking changing table in the restroom. I shared the rooms with other people. At dh's church, it was usually a dad with a severely handicapped child. At my church, it was mainly other families with young kids.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Sept 7, 2017 15:12:38 GMT -5
I got thrown out of a church for wearing pants. My first professional job required women to wear skirt suits with hose underneath (in Phoenix) and expressly prohibited pants. I followed those rules for a few years until I had skills and power that they couldn't replace at which time I called BS on that and got the rules changed. Similar to the issue of breastfeeding at church, at a board meeting or in the presence of an important person. The customs that imply breastfeeding is offensive and women were unimportant and should be at home tending to things were established when men were more important, had the knowledge/power and were in charge. This is no longer the case. My skills are valuable, my presence is equally important and I don't care to follow those customs any more. If the men do not like that, they can avert their eyes or stay home. This observation strikes me as particularly profound and sad.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 7, 2017 15:21:26 GMT -5
Survey of Virgil's relatives says: breast feeding in church is appropriate, but should be done discreetly with baby covered if possible. They argued that spontaneously hungry babies are a fact of life, and feeding a baby would be less disruptive than a mother getting up and leaving in the middle of services, which I agree with.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 15:23:09 GMT -5
One note on churches with nursery/Sunday school during the service: we have that, but some kids take awhile to get used to it, so you might still have a few in church. My granddaughter needed to "test the system" for quite a few Sundays, getting cranky enough that DS or DDIL would be summoned to get her. I think she just needed to know that they were there if needed and now she loves the nursery. Two weeks ago in my church, we had to get a mother because her youngest (between 1 and 2) just couldn't be consoled- not even by his older brothers. Dad had been deployed less than a month ago and no one would do but Mom. This was NOT the time to try and teach him independence.
Young families are the lifeblood of churches- all churches say they want them but they need to understand the needs of babies and small children, and their parents.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Sept 7, 2017 15:25:37 GMT -5
Survey of Virgil's relatives says: breast feeding in church is appropriate, but should be done discreetly with baby covered if possible. They argued that spontaneously hungry babies are a fact of life, and feeding a baby would be less disruptive than a mother getting up and leaving in the middle of services, which I agree with. Your family is getting very liberal. It is a slippery slope from discreetly breastfeeding a baby in church to topless dancing and sexual debauchery ala Kahl Drogo's wedding reception as the leader of the horsemen of Essos. Steady, Virgil, steady.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Sept 7, 2017 15:28:07 GMT -5
My first professional job required women to wear skirt suits with hose underneath (in Phoenix) and expressly prohibited pants. I followed those rules for a few years until I had skills and power that they couldn't replace at which time I called BS on that and got the rules changed. Similar to the issue of breastfeeding at church, at a board meeting or in the presence of an important person. The customs that imply breastfeeding is offensive and women were unimportant and should be at home tending to things were established when men were more important, had the knowledge/power and were in charge. This is no longer the case. My skills are valuable, my presence is equally important and I don't care to follow those customs any more. If the men do not like that, they can avert their eyes or stay home. I went to work for a company that had the same policy. I asked one of the women employees why the deal of no slacks for women. She said that the higher ups said that a lot of the women didn't look good in slacks.
My reply to her was that "then a lot of the men in this company should be wearing skirts/dresses"!!
I didn't last very long.
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