Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Sept 4, 2017 17:01:31 GMT -5
To answer your question...it's been off topic since about page 4.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 4, 2017 17:03:52 GMT -5
It's not unexplainable at all. And there is no maybe about it. You will never see me denigrate Christianity itself over the actions of people. I will call out the hypocrisy involved. I have said many times that an awful lot of people who claim to be Christians...aren't. It is perhaps a majority who have no real clue what it means, but they claim the title because they think it sounds good or that it gives them some moral legitimacy. And there are a lot of people, usually but not exclusively elderly, who will automatically believe anyone who claims to be Christian, simply because they can't imagine that anyone would lie about it. I don't make a habit of listening to megachurch leaders, so cannot say definitively, but I would suggest that NONE of them are truly men of God. If you want to find one of those, go to a small church. Money and power corrupt, pretty much always. And then there is always...Camel, needle, you remember the rest. While I agree with most of what you said, I would add that just because a person is not perfect does not mean they aren't a Christian. It means they are imperfect beings and make mistakes. I find a lot of people like to point out a person's failings and decide then and there said person isn't a Christian and most of them have no idea what they are talking about. That just isn't so. It means they make mistakes, ask for forgiveness and do their best to do better the next time. No person is perfect and no person can withstand the scrutiny that some hold them up to. I do my best to live by the teachings I believe in, but I said "shit" earlier. That doesn't make me not a Christian. It makes me imperfect.
That being said, there are very good people who do not believe as I do. I count many among those some of my best friends. I don't make fun of how they choose to believe and they do not make fun of mine. Not one among them would make fun of me for praying for these people affected by this hurricane. Reasonable and kind people would reply "what can it hurt" even if they don't believe it helps.
What's wrong with "shit"? Isn't it part and parcel of how you believe God designed us? Do you think you'd be a better Christian if you used baby talk and called it caca?
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Sept 4, 2017 17:14:48 GMT -5
While I agree with most of what you said, I would add that just because a person is not perfect does not mean they aren't a Christian. It means they are imperfect beings and make mistakes. I find a lot of people like to point out a person's failings and decide then and there said person isn't a Christian and most of them have no idea what they are talking about. That just isn't so. It means they make mistakes, ask for forgiveness and do their best to do better the next time. No person is perfect and no person can withstand the scrutiny that some hold them up to. I do my best to live by the teachings I believe in, but I said "shit" earlier. That doesn't make me not a Christian. It makes me imperfect.
That being said, there are very good people who do not believe as I do. I count many among those some of my best friends. I don't make fun of how they choose to believe and they do not make fun of mine. Not one among them would make fun of me for praying for these people affected by this hurricane. Reasonable and kind people would reply "what can it hurt" even if they don't believe it helps.
What's wrong with "shit"? Isn't it part and parcel of how you believe God designed us? Do you think you'd be a better Christian if you used baby talk and called it caca? There are several options between cursing and using baby talk.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 17:16:24 GMT -5
What's wrong with "shit"? Isn't it part and parcel of how you believe God designed us? Do you think you'd be a better Christian if you used baby talk and called it caca? There are several options between cursing and using baby talk. And I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that God doesn't care which one you choose.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Sept 4, 2017 17:16:54 GMT -5
Is wxyz a dude? I've seen several references to "he" which I think were directed towards wxyz, but I always thought wxyz was a female. And now there's no indicator on his/her posts.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Sept 4, 2017 17:20:25 GMT -5
There are several options between cursing and using baby talk. And I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that God doesn't care which one you choose. You'll have to ask Him. I was raised in a Christian home that didn't allow swearing. I could direct you to chapter and verse, but it isn't worth my trouble or yours and would probably get this thread moved.
So ya'll can stop obsessing now on whether or not you believe it is ok to swear. I don't care what you believe. And? If that's the worst un-Christian-like thing I do today, I'll call it a good day.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 17:22:04 GMT -5
You have a weird idea of what you consider obsessing.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Sept 4, 2017 17:23:02 GMT -5
You have a weird idea of what you consider obsessing. You have a weird idea of what you obsess on.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Sept 4, 2017 17:26:37 GMT -5
I don't spell out curse words. There is no reason to be intentionally vulgar and offensive.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Sept 4, 2017 17:29:11 GMT -5
Oh my. Four little guys just came to my door. They were probably 4 or 5. They were selling lemonade to send money to the hurricane victims. My mom is here and just bought a couple of glasses from them. I assume it was one of the dads that was pulling the wagon. How sweet. If only we all could be more child-like.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Sept 4, 2017 17:32:26 GMT -5
Yeah, but too many people can only manage to be child ish. Not quite the same thing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 17:32:44 GMT -5
Oh my. Four little guys just came to my door. They were probably 4 or 5. They were selling lemonade to send money to the hurricane victims. My mom is here and just bought a couple of glasses from them. I assume it was one of the dads that was pulling the wagon. How sweet. If only we all could be more child-like. You obviously don't have kids.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Sept 4, 2017 17:35:05 GMT -5
Not exactly!
ETA: That was a reply to tallguy's post. I forgot to quote.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Sept 4, 2017 17:38:20 GMT -5
Oh my. Four little guys just came to my door. They were probably 4 or 5. They were selling lemonade to send money to the hurricane victims. My mom is here and just bought a couple of glasses from them. I assume it was one of the dads that was pulling the wagon. How sweet. If only we all could be more child-like. You obviously don't have kids. No I don't. I wish I did but I can't have kids...or couldn't when I was still young enough. I'm not sure what difference that makes unless you are saying that a person who doesn't have kids couldn't possibly know anything about them. In that case, I'd just laugh and go on.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 17:48:13 GMT -5
My point is children are not exactly angelic little cherubs a lot of the time. There's a lot of "I know you are but what am I", door slamming, whining, temper tantrums, arguments about EVERYTHING, so I don't see how us acting more like children would be an improvement.
I am currently thinking of selling mine.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Sept 4, 2017 17:59:42 GMT -5
My point is children are not exactly angelic little cherubs a lot of the time. There's a lot of "I know you are but what am I", door slamming, whining, temper tantrums, arguments about EVERYTHING, so I don't see how us acting more like children would be an improvement. I am currently thinking of selling mine. Yes. That's exactly what I was talking about. I think we should all throw temper tantrums, whine and argue about everything. My bad!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 4, 2017 18:22:15 GMT -5
Already there
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Sept 4, 2017 18:29:20 GMT -5
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Sept 4, 2017 18:49:00 GMT -5
My point is children are not exactly angelic little cherubs a lot of the time. There's a lot of "I know you are but what am I", door slamming, whining, temper tantrums, arguments about EVERYTHING, so I don't see how us acting more like children would be an improvement. I am currently thinking of selling mine. I think you'll get more for them as parts than a whole. Chop shops have the right idea. May as well join the rest off topic.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Sept 4, 2017 19:59:54 GMT -5
That means you couldn't find anything either! I didn't bother looking because it is immaterial. She isn't the president. How about you confirm Trump has completed the donation and the money came out of his own pocket and not the Trump Foundation. In the mean time, there is this: White House Walks Back Trump Pledge to Donate $1 Million of ‘Personal Money’ to Harvey ReliefDonald Trump is extremely well-known for his tendency to bend (or break) the truth, particularly when it comes to portraying himself in the most favorable light possible. While there are virtually limitless examples of this, one particularly vile demonstration of his propensity to lie is his exaggerations and fabrications of how charitable he supposedly is to various causes. The case du jour of this predictable behavior is his pledge to donate $1 million to the Harvey relief effort. On Thursday, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders told reporters that President Trump would donate $1 million of his “personal money” to Hurricane Harvey victims. But on Friday, her story had changed and she said she wasn’t so sure. When asked whether the money would be coming from the president himself or from his foundation, in typical Trump administration fashion, she dodged giving an answer by saying that she hadn’t “had the chance” to confer with the president about that yet, despite having already made an announcement about the supposed charitable donation the day before White House Walks Back Trump Pledge to Donate $1 Million of ‘Personal Money’ to Harvey Relief . I not sure how Trump got involved in this, I thought this was about how Osteen was late coming to the party, Then shooby asked about the Clinton Foundation, you know that super generous organization, we all heard about during to campaign! Well at this point I can't find where the Clinton Foundation has even given a dine! imagine that,, Late to the party is better than not at all, I guess!!
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 4, 2017 20:04:42 GMT -5
I didn't bother looking because it is immaterial. She isn't the president. How about you confirm Trump has completed the donation and the money came out of his own pocket and not the Trump Foundation. In the mean time, there is this: White House Walks Back Trump Pledge to Donate $1 Million of ‘Personal Money’ to Harvey ReliefDonald Trump is extremely well-known for his tendency to bend (or break) the truth, particularly when it comes to portraying himself in the most favorable light possible. While there are virtually limitless examples of this, one particularly vile demonstration of his propensity to lie is his exaggerations and fabrications of how charitable he supposedly is to various causes. The case du jour of this predictable behavior is his pledge to donate $1 million to the Harvey relief effort. On Thursday, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders told reporters that President Trump would donate $1 million of his “personal money” to Hurricane Harvey victims. But on Friday, her story had changed and she said she wasn’t so sure. When asked whether the money would be coming from the president himself or from his foundation, in typical Trump administration fashion, she dodged giving an answer by saying that she hadn’t “had the chance” to confer with the president about that yet, despite having already made an announcement about the supposed charitable donation the day before White House Walks Back Trump Pledge to Donate $1 Million of ‘Personal Money’ to Harvey Relief . I not sure how Trump got involved in this, I thought this was about how Osteen was late coming to the party, Then shooby asked about the Clinton Foundation, you know that super generous organization, we all heard about during to campaign! Well at this point I can't find where the Clinton Foundation has even given a dine! imagine that,, Late to the party is better than not at all, I guess!! What did Clinton Foundation have to do with this thread in the first place other than to troll it?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 4, 2017 21:17:06 GMT -5
If you bring up deep pocket people expect everyone with deep pockets to be brought up.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 4, 2017 21:27:50 GMT -5
If you bring up deep pocket people expect everyone with deep pockets to be brought up. If that's the case, oldcoyote should not be whining about me mentioning trump, right?
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Sept 5, 2017 8:42:57 GMT -5
so much for getting back on topic... This thread went off topic the minute posters starting taking cheap shots at wxyz. Just because you don't like the most current off ramp doesn't excuse the rest of them. You are an admin. Delete it if you are so inclined. wow. I was commenting on SOMEONE ELSE'S observation that the thread had veered off topic. but I guess I can just delete things that I don't like. if that were the case, I'd have wiped out wxyz's repetitive walls of text five pages ago. don't be ridiculous.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 5, 2017 8:45:57 GMT -5
If you bring up deep pocket people expect everyone with deep pockets to be brought up. Why? Bringing it back around to Osteen, he's local. Not only that he is a religious leader which is supposed to mean in times of crisis he steps up and assists in any way he can. Sitting safe and dry in his home is not helping in any way he can. We can argue all day long if he should have opened his church doors and why he couldn't possibly do that, but there is a lot he still could have done. A man who can attract that many followers has a lot of power, power that is supposed to be used to serve others and pay his good fortune forward. Going back to mega churches as a whole they kinda defeat the whole point of Protestantism if you think about it. The biggest reason Luther left the Catholic church is because Catholic priests/cardinals/bishops were getting rich and profiting off of their positions. If you were wealthy you'd hand your local priest a bag of gold and he'd "pardon" you ::wink wink:: You could buy favors from "God" and get yourself special status by donating giant wads of money to further enrich those that were supposed to be passing along the teachings of Christ. I don't have my Ouja board but based on what I know history wise I'm fairly certain Luther would be horrified at today's Mega Churches. We can agree to disagree but I don't hold Kim Kardashian or the Clintons to the same level as I do a supposed Man of God. The whole point of being a minister, IMO, is not to fatten your wallet but to be a leader in your community. It's to be a source of light/hope via the word of God in times of crisis. Houston is Osteen's community and he had to be shamed into helping it. Meanwhile churches with a lot less flung open their doors/hearts right away. Mosques and Synagouges are going out into the community to help, even if you are not a member because they consider it a part of their duty in the name of serving God. Osteen stepped in it with this one. If you don't want to be called out don't build a giant church and plaster your face all over books/TV preaching the word of God. Put yourself on a pillar and you need to make sure you don't do stuff that gets you knocked off.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Sept 5, 2017 8:49:33 GMT -5
If you bring up deep pocket people expect everyone with deep pockets to be brought up. If that's the case, oldcoyote should not be whining about me mentioning Trump, right? The topic was not about "deep pockets" The topic was calling out tbe hypocrisy of ONE individual who became uber rich (NW upwards of $67M) using religion to scam the gullible. It then veered off course when a few individuals chose to believe that the OP attacked Christianity. One of them posted pages and pages of rants, most since deleted, including personally insulting several posters. Now we have posters defending said individual at the same time they bemoan the thread getting derailed.... So back to the hypocrisy of Olsteen. Having been shamed into opening his church to those made homeless by the flood, he then proceeded to pass around collection plates...
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Sept 5, 2017 9:05:24 GMT -5
The other side to this is to ask why people here and elsewhere expect The Clinton Foundation to give money directly to the relief efforts? That is not their mission or their focus. What they did was to set up a way to coordinate fundraising through entities they partner with who DO those types of things. That does not in any way mean that they did not give personally. I read (I think on the foundation's page) something where Hillary was encouraging people to give through those partners, as she had just done. The Clintons are not doing it through their foundation, and are not seeking applause for their donations. Donald Trump, on the other hand, pledged to give $1 million of his PERSONAL funds to the effort, and within a day it was being walked back by the White House. Regardless, I would bet that the Clintons put a hell of a lot more of their own money into THEIR foundation than Trump ever has or will put into HIS. Nor do I see them repeatedly taking personal credit for the donation of OTHER people's money like Trump does, or using those donations to benefit him/herself as Trump does. There are people here who continually blather on about the dishonesty of Bill and Hillary, but neither can come anywhere close to Trump as a liar, scammer, and con man. He is in a league of his own.
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cameragrrl
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Post by cameragrrl on Sept 5, 2017 15:06:39 GMT -5
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Sept 5, 2017 15:33:28 GMT -5
Deleted -with apologies. (So danged believable)
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Sept 5, 2017 17:23:58 GMT -5
I did not want to come back on here but since I am.....here is the latest attack on the Born Again Churches and how they teach religion: Want to talk religion, Democratic religion....well for many Democrats the Clinton Foundation and it's founders is the equivalent of religion. Want to talk ministers only on this thread....lets talk about "love children", tax cheating/owing the government hundreds of thousands in unpaid taxes, making millions from religion, etc, etc. Here are a couple of names for you. I dont have the time to put up all the many names I could. Jessie Jackson Rev Al Sharpton and all the other many many many Progressive/Socialist ministers out there that are worth millions. Do you have any of your hate speech for them? But that is different, they are hard core Socialist Democrats. How about using any of the words you used on Olsteen on them? Like: He is an asshole of the first kind I don't care for the guy or megachurches prosperity theology which is BS. Asshole.... pretty much always an asshole. Prosperity theology is a load of crap This guy is disgusting. to further the "work" of his fancy "church" One last.....NON ATTACK on religion... "I also think for these mega churches it's generally pretty obvious, and many of them are media whores and so make sure that the word gets out." ALL of these, "ladylike", "tolerant", comments are on only the first two pages of you and your friends 13 page rant. I dont have time to pull out all the others from this thread. Yesterday you were accusing some unknown person of....."changing the punctuation in one of your posts". Today you just cant let it go and you are back on here spreading your LIES and hatred as usual. And to comment on one last item that you gleefully have thrown out there 4-5 times in this thread. There is absolutely NOTHING WRONG with taking up a collection at your REGULAR WEDNESDAY CHURCH SERVICE, which is what that video is. Yes there are a few flood victims in there and they stand up. The rest are regular church members. I suspect that every single church in Houston that was able to meet this last Sunday took up a collection. As I said in my original posts......DISGUSTING. So there's something here I seem to be missing . . . if Christian ministers feel entitled to "call out" and publicly shame or put-down those not of their faith (and those *of* their faith too, actually) whose personhood offends their religiosity (I'm thinking of the recent Nashville Statement and the LGBTQ community here), when the tables are turned and the public perceives that THEY are not living according to the principles they supposedly espouse, why are they immune from the same kind of public scrutiny? Why can they put down others but others cannot put them down? Isn't this a goose and gander thing?
I'm *not* trying to be snarky here! I would really like to understand. Why are "men of God" - who are almost universally held to a higher standard specifically *because* of their espoused beliefs - off limits to criticism when they don't live out what they are preaching (or they are not living out what their holy books tell them)?
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