Why am I pissed?

[Wisconsin Beth]

I'm sorry Mich.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Dec 20, 2016 9:58:19 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Hey, if she's really big into religion, you should gift her the Dave Ramsey Total Money Makeover book for Christmas!  Maybe his Christian slant and biblical references would get through to her on the money trainwreck side of things?  It really hit a chord with my ex who was also very religious when nothing else did. 

She has it.  She has gone through classes at FPU at least twice too.

[swasat]

The Walk of the Penguin Mich, I am sorry you are going through this   As an agnostic myself I can understand and relate.

However, regarding your sister, I don't think there's much you can do. She has her mind set, she is not listening to her pastor and counselor and seems to be very much in "I know whats best!" mode. Once people get into that mindset its very hard to get through them. Even the simplest things set them off.

If I were in your place I'd just donate the book and pretend it never existed. If she asks I'd just tell her calmly that you saw no need to own the book , hence it was donated to the library. If she rants and raves, you just stay calm. Sometime all thats needed to brave the storm is no reaction from our sides.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Dec 20, 2016 9:49:37 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Dec 20, 2016 9:45:13 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Have you thought about gently suggesting to your sister she talk to her minister about all this?   If she's concerned for your soul, her daughters' souls, her STBX's souls then he would be a good source of comfort/guidance.   

I don't know if she goes to a church that is heavy into converison or not.   If it is then this plan would backfire big time.   If they aren't that type then the minister might be able to better steer her away from pressuring you and everyone around her so much.

I haven't talked to her since I received this book.  But she has been getting advice from a therapist and her pastor.  She isn't listening to anyone.

Ah.   Sorry you're screwed then.    This is one of those things where unfortunately you're going to have to weigh which is more important.    I know I've had times where I had to decide if it was more important to continue to have a relationship with my family or stand up for myself.   It's not a fun place to be in.

Is she normally this whacky with religion or is this all coming about due to her impending divorce?   Reason I ask is because I also try to keep in mind if it's temporary short term dysfunction or long lasting dysfunction.   I'm more willing to work thru it/ignore it if I know it's temporary.

[Virgil Showlion]

Dec 20, 2016 9:38:09 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Virgil.....I posted all I did to try to make you understand what is going on.  I deleted it because I really don't want that hanging out there, but wanted to explain to you why your comment about me trying to be more selfless was almost like a slap in the face to me.

Maybe if I had put that out there too, it would have changed the direction of the responses.  I don't know.  I still haven't figured out what to do.

I think it's a wise decision.

My suggestion to seek advice closer to home still stands, and doubly so now that the post is gone. I'm assuming you're here looking for advice, not just to vent, and the contents of that post are realistically necessary for the advice to have any relevance.

I wouldn't trust it even then. Get somebody who knows both you and your sister intimately. Get them to act as her advocate or role play, as giramomma suggested. They'll help you sort out where you're on solid ground and where you might be blowing things out of perspective. They can also help you judge where you draw the line between being merciful/selfless and being a doormat/enabler.

Talk it over with as many such people as you can. A wise man seeks the advice of a multitude of (informed, objective) counselors.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

to home still stands, and doubly so now that the post is gone. I'm assuming you're here looking for advice, not just to vent, and the contents of that post are realistically necessary for the advice to have any relevance.

Getting advice closer to home isn't useful, our social circles do not connect and few of my friends (exactly one) know my sister.  I've actually reached out to her, but she is as flabbergasted as I am.  My sister has been changing, and her friend has told me that she has pulled away from her.  

Geographically, we are about 1500 miles apart.  We have not lived in the same state since I graduated from college back in 1981.  TD is the only one who knows both of us and he is as clueless as I am.  

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Dec 20, 2016 10:14:15 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Dec 20, 2016 9:49:37 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I haven't talked to her since I received this book.  But she has been getting advice from a therapist and her pastor.  She isn't listening to anyone.

Ah.   Sorry you're screwed then.    This is one of those things where unfortunately you're going to have to weigh which is more important.    I know I've had times where I had to decide if it was more important to continue to have a relationship with my family or stand up for myself.   It's not a fun place to be in.

Is she normally this whacky with religion or is this all coming about due to her impending divorce?   Reason I ask is because I also try to keep in mind if it's temporary short term dysfunction or long lasting dysfunction.   I'm more willing to work thru it/ignore it if I know it's temporary.

She has been moving in this direction for a few years.  But her impending divorce has ramped things up 100-fold.  I don't see it going away any time soon.

[Deleted]

Dec 20, 2016 10:36:39 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Dec 20, 2016 10:14:15 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Ah.   Sorry you're screwed then.    This is one of those things where unfortunately you're going to have to weigh which is more important.    I know I've had times where I had to decide if it was more important to continue to have a relationship with my family or stand up for myself.   It's not a fun place to be in.

Is she normally this whacky with religion or is this all coming about due to her impending divorce?   Reason I ask is because I also try to keep in mind if it's temporary short term dysfunction or long lasting dysfunction.   I'm more willing to work thru it/ignore it if I know it's temporary.

She has been moving in this direction for a few years.  But her impending divorce has ramped things up 100-fold.  I don't see it going away any time soon.

I'm sorry for your troubles. I have a cousin who has been "moving in this direction for a few years". In fact her impending divorce is in large part due to her move in that direction.
It is impossible to reason with her because in her heart she feels that we are misguided and SHE is going to save us. 
Intentions, I always look for intentions. She believes she is doing the right thing. All you can do is wait it out and be patient.
You can't change her at this moment all you can do is change or recognize your own feelings and deal with them.
At least that is my opinion.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Dec 20, 2016 9:38:09 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Virgil.....I posted all I did to try to make you understand what is going on.  I deleted it because I really don't want that hanging out there, but wanted to explain to you why your comment about me trying to be more selfless was almost like a slap in the face to me.

Maybe if I had put that out there too, it would have changed the direction of the responses.  I don't know.  I still haven't figured out what to do.

Good morning!
I also was not understanding the severity of the situation. I also interpreted this as about the book and religious preferences as opposed to a fundamental break down of the relationship. 

I hope you're able to find peace with this portion of your life. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Dec 20, 2016 11:37:47 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

Dec 20, 2016 9:38:09 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Virgil.....I posted all I did to try to make you understand what is going on.  I deleted it because I really don't want that hanging out there, but wanted to explain to you why your comment about me trying to be more selfless was almost like a slap in the face to me.

Maybe if I had put that out there too, it would have changed the direction of the responses.  I don't know.  I still haven't figured out what to do.

Good morning!
I also was not understanding the severity of the situation. I also interpreted this as about the book and religious preferences as opposed to a fundamental break down of the relationship. 

I hope you're able to find peace with this portion of your life. 

It is both.  I have no problem if she wants to believe this way.  But quite frankly, her belief has exacerbated her attitudes about other things that has made talking to her difficult.  Essentially 'she is religious, therefore she is right and I (and everyone else) am wrong'.  

I consider my my sister my friend, but she is doing her damnedest to destroy this.....she has contributed to the destruction to a lot of relationships over the year, including her best friend from college.  I recently heard about that last week, from her friend (we were friends, but she became my sister's best friend so I backed off).  She does not like the person my sister has become either.

The book and its implications was another straw, and I prefer to deal with that separately, if possible.

[Plain Old Petunia]

Dec 17, 2016 18:39:35 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Dec 17, 2016 18:32:44 GMT -5 oped said:

Well, to be blunt she fears you are going to hell and loves you and doesn't want that to happen. Just think of it as a weird form of 'I love you', say thanks, I love you too, and recycle. If possible...

I know this.  But why am I pissed?

Because it is very disrespectful.  It assumes that you have come to your current beliefs out of ignorance or random happenstance, rather than after thoughtfully considering the evidence.  If only you would read this book, your ignorance would end and you would come to the same correct conclusion your sister has reached.

[Plain Old Petunia]

Dec 18, 2016 15:46:26 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Dec 18, 2016 12:40:21 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

You miss the point.

The point is that I am pissed because my sister does not respect my lack of belief.  It is not that I hate her belief, I do not feel it.

Let's put it this way.  It is comparable to me asking a Muslim to consider Christianity instead of Islam.  Or to take religion out of it, to extol the virtues of children when I have chosen a well thought out child free lifestyle.  That, IMO is breathtakingly rude.

ETA:  It isn't the book, but what the book represents.

She cares about you.

She probably isn't aware of the adamancy of your unbelief. Given your equivocal language in this thread, one can hardly blame her.

You're clearly not agnostic. You're an non-evangelical atheist (as opposed to the evangelical variety, which is what most think of when they hear "atheist"). You need to be upfront about this with her.

Tell her plainly you have no desire to be converted, no desire to read the book, and no desire to discuss the subject. You're not questioning; you're not seeking; you have exactly what you want.

If she broaches the subject again in future and your position hasn't changed: rinse, lather, repeat.

She's your sister. I'm guessing she loves you and you love her. Don't take offense where none is intended. You'll avoid a lot of heartache and add years to your life.

An agnostic believes we cannot know if there is a god or not.

An atheist lacks belief that there is a god.

Many non-believers are agnostic atheists.

[Virgil Showlion]

Dec 20, 2016 11:48:15 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

The book and its implications was another straw, and I prefer to deal with that separately, if possible.

I don't think it is.

You're going to get 31 flavours of "Don't worry; be happy." if you don't divulge the iceberg the book is attached to, and none of the prior suggestions for parlaying with your sister are really applicable in your case.

I'm sorry to hear you don't have anyone close to both of you to arbitrate.

You might want to sit down with your husband as soon as possible and come up with a list of limits and contingencies. Brainstorm as many potential scenarios as you can, and for each one nail down a hard limit for what you're willing to tolerate, what you'll do if your sister's conduct meets that standard, and what you'll do if it doesn't. Have it sorted out in your mind (or on paper) in advance so that when conflict arises and emotions are running high, you'll have a firm idea of where the line is and how to deal with the situation rationally.

Your contingency plans might include ultimatums, temporary severance of phone or e-mail contact, contact based on schedules or that only you initiate, rules of conversation, etc. I strongly recommend the guiding principle be "I will tolerate as much as I possibly can so long as I am not countenancing immoral behaviour" (which includes unrepentant abuse). Add to this a wholehearted willingness to forgive if/when your sister does repent of her behaviour.

You might also try a private conversation with 2-4 close friends here on YMAM, giving them the full breakdown of the situation, and seeing if they have any strategies for dealing with intractable relatives that proved successful in similar circumstances. But I do believe they need the whole picture.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

She leaves for vacation soon so I am going to let this ride until she gets back.  

When she gets back, I am hoping that she is going to be in a more receptive move.  I very much disagree with her going, as she is digging herself into a financial hole that is going to make things very ugly in the future.  But I've said my piece about that, so right now it is up to her.

[lazysundays]

Could be worse ?

slate.com/human-interest/2018/05/parenting-advice-about-secret-baptisms-cleaning-services-and-separate-rooms.html