Why am I pissed?

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I realize that this has the potential to be a controversial topic, but I need some different perspective.

I'm not religious, despite having been raised a Catholic.  I don't think I've made the leap to atheist, but agnostic definitely fits.  My sister, OTOH is very much so.  She is no longer Catholic, but has found something she is more comfortable with.  That is her need, and I am ok with this.  We very rarely talk religion.  She knows my stand on it.  The closest we come from is that she will tell me she is praying for God to give her an answer, and my response is usually "it sounds like he has, you are just not listening".  Most of this is in relation to her impending divorce.

So today, I get a book in the mail from her, The Case for Christ with the message that I read it and challenges me to consider the possibilities (her message, verbatim).

Since I opened the box this afternoon, this has pissed me off beyond belief.  I feel like she is trying to push me towards the direction she is in, and I simply don't see it.  Then book is geared towards scientists, but I really don't care.

I don't care that she is religious.  Why can't she respect my beliefs that I just don't see things her way?

[Deleted]

Well, to be blunt she fears you are going to hell and loves you and doesn't want that to happen. Just think of it as a weird form of 'I love you', say thanks, I love you too, and recycle. If possible...

[swamp]

Dec 17, 2016 18:32:44 GMT -5 oped said:

Well, to be blunt she fears you are going to hell and loves you and doesn't want that to happen. Just think of it as a weird form of 'I love you', say thanks, I love you too, and recycle. If possible...

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Dec 17, 2016 18:32:44 GMT -5 oped said:

Well, to be blunt she fears you are going to hell and loves you and doesn't want that to happen. Just think of it as a weird form of 'I love you', say thanks, I love you too, and recycle. If possible...

I know this.  But why am I pissed?

[Gardening Grandma]

Dec 17, 2016 18:39:35 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Dec 17, 2016 18:32:44 GMT -5 oped said:

Well, to be blunt she fears you are going to hell and loves you and doesn't want that to happen. Just think of it as a weird form of 'I love you', say thanks, I love you too, and recycle. If possible...

I know this.  But why am I pissed?

I think I understand.  Right now I am pissed at my sister. 

I think it may be what we perceive as a lack of respect for our point of view.  Or an unwillingness to let us be ourselves and accept us for ourselves.

While I think oped is right about her actual motive, the underlying message she sent is "you are wrong and this will show you the right way"

I'd be pissed too.

[msventoux]

You're upset because she's not respecting your beliefs and is trying to persuade you/guilt you into believing as she does?  Implying that you're not intelligent or thoughtful enough to come to a belief system that works for you, and it's not "wrong" to have that belief.  She may also feel that you minimize her feelings when you say that god has already answered her prayers but she's not listening, so she's trying to get you on the same page as her. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Dec 17, 2016 18:42:50 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

Dec 17, 2016 18:39:35 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I know this.  But why am I pissed?

I think I understand.  Right now I am pissed at my sister. 

I think it may be what we perceive as a lack of respect for our point of view.  Or an unwillingness to let us be ourselves and accept us for ourselves.

While I think oped is right about her actual motive, the underlying message she sent is "you are wrong and this will show you the right way"

I'd be pissed too.

This makes the most sense to me.

[weltschmerz]

Dec 17, 2016 18:28:13 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I realize that this has the potential to be a controversial topic, but I need some different perspective.

I'm not religious, despite having been raised a Catholic.  I don't think I've made the leap to atheist, but agnostic definitely fits.  My sister, OTOH is very much so.  She is no longer Catholic, but has found something she is more comfortable with.  That is her need, and I am ok with this.  We very rarely talk religion.  She knows my stand on it.  The closest we come from is that she will tell me she is praying for God to give her an answer, and my response is usually "it sounds like he has, you are just not listening".  Most of this is in relation to her impending divorce.

So today, I get a book in the mail from her, The Case for Christ with the message that I read it and challenges me to consider the possibilities (her message, verbatim).

Since I opened the box this afternoon, this has pissed me off beyond belief.  I feel like she is trying to push me towards the direction she is in, and I simply don't see it.  Then book is geared towards scientists, but I really don't care.

I don't care that she is religious.  Why can't she respect my beliefs that I just don't see things her way?

I hear ya. I'm pissed at my sister, too.
We were discussing end of life wishes and I told her I want to be cremated. She had a hissy fit, "because it's not permitted in our religion."
I don't give a crap as to what's permitted in our religion. I'm an atheist.
I don't want to have the drama-filled three days at our church, looking at a waxy corpse, complete with all the wailing and rending of garments. No thank you.
Just burn me as soon as possible.

[Gardening Grandma]

Dec 17, 2016 19:16:21 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Dec 17, 2016 18:28:13 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I realize that this has the potential to be a controversial topic, but I need some different perspective.

I'm not religious, despite having been raised a Catholic.  I don't think I've made the leap to atheist, but agnostic definitely fits.  My sister, OTOH is very much so.  She is no longer Catholic, but has found something she is more comfortable with.  That is her need, and I am ok with this.  We very rarely talk religion.  She knows my stand on it.  The closest we come from is that she will tell me she is praying for God to give her an answer, and my response is usually "it sounds like he has, you are just not listening".  Most of this is in relation to her impending divorce.

So today, I get a book in the mail from her, The Case for Christ with the message that I read it and challenges me to consider the possibilities (her message, verbatim).

Since I opened the box this afternoon, this has pissed me off beyond belief.  I feel like she is trying to push me towards the direction she is in, and I simply don't see it.  Then book is geared towards scientists, but I really don't care.

I don't care that she is religious.  Why can't she respect my beliefs that I just don't see things her way?

I hear ya. I'm pissed at my sister, too.
We were discussing end of life wishes and I told her I want to be cremated. She had a hissy fit, "because it's not permitted in our religion."
I don't give a crap as to what's permitted in our religion. I'm an atheist.
I don't want to have the drama-filled three days at our church, looking at a waxy corpse, complete with all the wailing and rending of garments. No thank you.
Just burn me as soon as possible.

Might want to make sure she is not the person who will be asked to handle your final arrangements.  Or plan to outlive her. 

[Deleted]

Wait a tick, she gave you a gift, you should get her one as well:

www.amazon.com/God-Not-Great-Religion-Everything/dp/0446697966

[Deleted]

Dec 17, 2016 19:16:21 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Dec 17, 2016 18:28:13 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I realize that this has the potential to be a controversial topic, but I need some different perspective.

I'm not religious, despite having been raised a Catholic.  I don't think I've made the leap to atheist, but agnostic definitely fits.  My sister, OTOH is very much so.  She is no longer Catholic, but has found something she is more comfortable with.  That is her need, and I am ok with this.  We very rarely talk religion.  She knows my stand on it.  The closest we come from is that she will tell me she is praying for God to give her an answer, and my response is usually "it sounds like he has, you are just not listening".  Most of this is in relation to her impending divorce.

So today, I get a book in the mail from her, The Case for Christ with the message that I read it and challenges me to consider the possibilities (her message, verbatim).

Since I opened the box this afternoon, this has pissed me off beyond belief.  I feel like she is trying to push me towards the direction she is in, and I simply don't see it.  Then book is geared towards scientists, but I really don't care.

I don't care that she is religious.  Why can't she respect my beliefs that I just don't see things her way?

I hear ya. I'm pissed at my sister, too.
We were discussing end of life wishes and I told her I want to be cremated. She had a hissy fit, "because it's not permitted in our religion."
I don't give a crap as to what's permitted in our religion. I'm an atheist.
I don't want to have the drama-filled three days at our church, looking at a waxy corpse, complete with all the wailing and rending of garments. No thank you.
Just burn me as soon as possible.

I told my family that anyone who puts on a funeral for me against my wishes I will find a way to haunt the crap out of them. I don't believe it but they do.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Dec 17, 2016 18:47:06 GMT -5 msventoux said:

You're upset because she's not respecting your beliefs and is trying to persuade you/guilt you into believing as she does?  Implying that you're not intelligent or thoughtful enough to come to a belief system that works for you, and it's not "wrong" to have that belief.  She may also feel that you minimize her feelings when you say that god has already answered her prayers but she's not listening, so she's trying to get you on the same page as her. 

When she says she is praying for an answer, everyone else (including her kids!) sees the answer but her.  It isn't minimizing her feelings, but trying to make her realize that God isn't giving her the answer she wants.  She thinks if she prays had enough, he will send her narcissistic, alcoholic bastard of a husband back to her.  A man that puts her last, behind his guns, his alcohol, his toys, his girlfriend, etc.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Dec 17, 2016 19:25:34 GMT -5 @aj said:

Wait a tick, she gave you a gift, you should get her one as well:

www.amazon.com/God-Not-Great-Religion-Everything/dp/0446697966

Hmmmmmmm..............

[weltschmerz]

Dec 17, 2016 19:28:27 GMT -5 @aj said:

Dec 17, 2016 19:16:21 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

I hear ya. I'm pissed at my sister, too.
We were discussing end of life wishes and I told her I want to be cremated. She had a hissy fit, "because it's not permitted in our religion."
I don't give a crap as to what's permitted in our religion. I'm an atheist.
I don't want to have the drama-filled three days at our church, looking at a waxy corpse, complete with all the wailing and rending of garments. No thank you.
Just burn me as soon as possible.

I told my family that anyone who puts on a funeral for me against my wishes I will find a way to haunt the crap out of them. I don't believe it but they do.

I told her the same thing!
"Stick me in that church for three days, and I will haunt your sorry ass until the end of days."

[msventoux]

Dec 17, 2016 19:30:59 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Dec 17, 2016 18:47:06 GMT -5 msventoux said:

You're upset because she's not respecting your beliefs and is trying to persuade you/guilt you into believing as she does?  Implying that you're not intelligent or thoughtful enough to come to a belief system that works for you, and it's not "wrong" to have that belief.  She may also feel that you minimize her feelings when you say that god has already answered her prayers but she's not listening, so she's trying to get you on the same page as her. 

When she says she is praying for an answer, everyone else (including her kids!) sees the answer but her.  It isn't minimizing her feelings, but trying to make her realize that God isn't giving her the answer she wants.  She thinks if she prays had enough, he will send her narcissistic, alcoholic bastard of a husband back to her.  A man that puts her last, behind his guns, his alcohol, his toys, his girlfriend, etc.

I don't think the fact that everyone else sees an answer matters, and in fact could be the reason she's trying to convert you so that she could have a like-minded individual to commiserate with.  In my experience, overly religious people have an amazing way of ignoring what they don't want to see and filtering the truth through their own special filter...god is testing them, everyone is against them so they need to turn more towards god, if only their faith was stronger an answer would be shown (the answer they want to see, not reality). 

There's a good reason the old joke about the man who drowned in floodwaters exists.  He refused help from a neighbor in a rowboat, a police boat and a rescue helicopter, and trusted that god would save him.  When he drowned and met god he was angry that god didn't intervene.  God's answer was that he sent help three times and it wasn't accepted. 
 
Not sure how socially isolated she was, but if that's been her normal for years, it's probably more comfortable for her to continue to live that way than make a new normal on her own.  At least she has a chance to escape and have a more fulfilling life if she would have the courage to move on.  Many others aren't so lucky. 

[TheOtherMe]

I feel as you do.  I consider myself an agnostic and do not appreciate my sister's attempts to convert me.  We did not grow up in a religious home.  If she sent me a book like that, I'd be pissed.

I also plan to be cremated.  My sister thinks it's some kind of sin.  I have now taken the legal steps in my state that she has no control over what becomes of my remains.  I am in the process of prepaying my cremation and my nephew is legally in charge of arrangements.  He has assured me he will follow my wishes. 

He also told me I was right in not appointing his sister because she would cave to her mother.

[toshmanta]

Dec 17, 2016 18:32:44 GMT -5 oped said:

Well, to be blunt she fears you are going to hell and loves you and doesn't want that to happen. Just think of it as a weird form of 'I love you', say thanks, I love you too, and recycle. If possible...

Hell to me is being trapped in a lift with someone who believes in heaven.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Dec 17, 2016 20:06:26 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Dec 17, 2016 20:01:59 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

Lee Strobel is just another Christian apologist who tries to make a rational case for " The Bible is true because it says it is true ", throw it in the bin or use it to beat some sense into her, you are pissed because it is an insult to intelligence to believe the NT is true.

Hundreds of myths about miracles, all fiction, but not the miracles of Jesus??  Why? Because the Bible is true because it says it is true.

Eugenics should be revisited imho, when will this nonsense ever end.

Yep! Kind of how Hogwarts is real because the Harry Potter books say it's real.

I may have to steal this......thanks, Welts!

[weltschmerz]

Dec 17, 2016 20:28:38 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Dec 17, 2016 20:06:26 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Yep! Kind of how Hogwarts is real because the Harry Potter books say it's real.

I may have to steal this......thanks, Welts!

Help yourself!
It's the exact same thing.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Would I start a war if I sent her this?

www.amazon.com/God-Delusion-Richard-Dawkins/dp/0618918248/ref=pd_sim_14_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0618918248&pd_rd_r=JWW0171J6FZMGX2RCGV9&pd_rd_w=FyhH8&pd_rd_wg=lxP5n&psc=1&refRID=JWW0171J6FZMGX2RCGV9

[Jaguar]

Dec 17, 2016 20:38:24 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Would I start a war if I sent her this?

www.amazon.com/God-Delusion-Richard-Dawkins/dp/0618918248/ref=pd_sim_14_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0618918248&pd_rd_r=JWW0171J6FZMGX2RCGV9&pd_rd_w=FyhH8&pd_rd_wg=lxP5n&psc=1&refRID=JWW0171J6FZMGX2RCGV9

It's a perfectly wonderful gift, give it.

[Deleted]

Dec 17, 2016 20:31:43 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Dec 17, 2016 20:28:38 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I may have to steal this......thanks, Welts!

Help yourself!
It's the exact same thing.

No it's not!

Hogwarts is about magic and myth and believing in the impossible... and... ohhh... wait... ummm... nevermind.

[sesfw]

I would be ticked about this also......... but not enough to start a family war.

My first reaction is to send it back and say ......... thanks, but no thanks.

My second would be to quietly dispose of the book and say nothing.  Let her ask about it then tell her it went to Goodwill as a donation.  

Please don't let a war start ..... they usually stop over someones grave.

Not good

[chiver78]

Dec 17, 2016 20:38:24 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Would I start a war if I sent her this?

www.amazon.com/God-Delusion-Richard-Dawkins/dp/0618918248/ref=pd_sim_14_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0618918248&pd_rd_r=JWW0171J6FZMGX2RCGV9&pd_rd_w=FyhH8&pd_rd_wg=lxP5n&psc=1&refRID=JWW0171J6FZMGX2RCGV9

probably. report back when you do. 

[Deleted]

It is frustrating when the majority belief system consistently disregards, even ignores alternative belief systems... if you sent her that book, you'd be the bad guy, but we are expected to just disregard it if they do something similar.... I do understand. 

[lexxy703]

I'd be pissed too.  I get she thinks she is trying to save you.  I've been in the same position.  I lost a close friend because of the constant pushing.  She sent me books.  I can't remember the name but it was back in the 90s when these "angel -vs- devils" series were popular with the religious types.  I read two & tried to have an open discussion to no avail.

I have no advice but do feel your pain.  As I said above, I'd be pissed too.  It is an imposition of her beliefs into your life trying to change you.  Differences in religion shouldn't be hard but we all know they are.

[lexxy703]

Dec 17, 2016 20:37:08 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

Dec 17, 2016 19:52:52 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

I feel as you do.  I consider myself an agnostic and do not appreciate my sister's attempts to convert me.  We did not grow up in a religious home.  If she sent me a book like that, I'd be pissed.

I also plan to be cremated.  My sister thinks it's some kind of sin.  I have now taken the legal steps in my state that she has no control over what becomes of my remains.  I am in the process of prepaying my cremation and my nephew is legally in charge of arrangements.  He has assured me he will follow my wishes. 

He also told me I was right in not appointing his sister because she would cave to her mother.

I have never understood the case for agnosticism with regard to the existence of God, how can one disregard all the other gods but yet not come to the same conclusion about God,it is not as if there is anymore evidence or reason for God's existence as against all the other gods.

They cannot all be true but they can all be false.

Even if we assume some sentient being outwith the Laws of Physics created our universe, what are the chances he only told one small desert tribe in the Bronze Age about his plans?

The burning bush was probably a cannabis plant, no wonder Moses dropped the tablets.

I do not understand your first paragraph.  I've read it more than once, but as an agnostic I don't really believe in any of the gods.  And I laughed at your last sentence because it basically sums up what I do believe about the bible.  Not to be rude to Christians but I believe it was a lot like the Salem witch trials & they were tripping on ergot or other bad wheat or mushrooms. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I don't care how or what she chooses to believe, So I want the same on her part for me.

[naughtybear]

It seems that agnostics/atheists are more tolerant of the religious people than the other way around or maybe I just haven't found the right kind of books/leaflets to sent to them.

[Deleted]

Dec 17, 2016 21:36:21 GMT -5 oped said:

It is frustrating when the majority belief system consistently disregards, even ignores alternative belief systems... if you sent her that book, you'd be the bad guy, but we are expected to just disregard it if they do something similar.... I do understand. 

Yeah... I never understood the hypocritical thinking there either. "It's o.k. if I push my beliefs that you disbelieve on you, but it's not o.k. if you push your beliefs that I disbelieve on me"... WTF is up with that?