The "All Things Libya Thread"

[reasonfreedom]

I think it is a mistake if we get involved. We if we started a violent revolution here, would the world get involved to help our rebels overturn our government?

[privateinvestor]

BREAKING NEWS: French planes enter Libyan airspace, Al Arabiya reports

U.K., France likely to lead U.N.-backed airstrikes | Libya's air defenses pose threat



BREAKING NEWS: World leaders announce start of military action against Gadhafi forces. Developing.



Just remember the no fly zone may not be enough to stop Khadafy if he decides to persist in his brutal killing of those who oppose his 40 year reign in Libya.

The UN Resolution states that there will be no foreign occupation force in any form so the UN will have to rely on bombing and missile attacks on Khadafy without troops on the ground directing those attacks.. Unless our Special Forces are working with the Libyan rebels to perform this task...but we may never know..

Too bad our President is AWOL and doesn't keep this country up to date on what is happening on the ground in Libya ..He is probably too busy studying his bracket picks or preparing his speeches for the Brazilians..

He makes just general comments and doesn't answer any questions which says he is probably reading what Hillary told him to say and then he just runs off to get back to his more important tasks..watching the NCAA Basketball games or the "Girl From Epanema"

[henryclay]

"........... the Libyan leader sig­naled his inten­tions in Beng­hazi. “We will come house by house, room by room,” Colonel Qaddafi said Thurs­day on a radio call-in show before the United Nations vote. “It’s over. The issue has been decided.” To those who con­tin­ued to resist, he vowed: “We will find you in your clos­ets. We will have no mercy and no pity.”..................."

That reads pretty grim to me and I'm not even there.

[privateinvestor]

If he is that serious and takes it to that conclusion, then it also sounds like a no-fly zone isn't going to be enough. It all depends on what the UN's result they want is I guess...

Disclaimer: I'm staying out of the discussion politically - or from an opinion standpoint. Obviously I have opinions, but don't think it would be professional to air them either way. Not to discourage others from doing so, by all means post what you think. Just saying the disclaimer so nobody gets upset if I don't comment either way on the posts that are folks opinions.[/quote][/i]

OK Ratchets I understand

[Shirina]

Too bad our President is AWOL and doesn't keep this country up to date on what is happening on the ground in Libya ..He is probably too busy studying his bracket picks or preparing his speeches for the Brazilians..

Since when did Obama become a news anchor man? And why would you want him to be one? Chances are, you wouldn't believe anything he said anyway unless he got in front of a camera and said, "I suck at everything. I am the first human being in history to be perfectly imperfect. Since I can't do anything right, I'm stepping down ..."

[Shirina]

"........... the Libyan leader sig­naled his inten­tions in Beng­hazi. “We will come house by house, room by room,” Colonel Qaddafi said Thurs­day on a radio call-in show before the United Nations vote. “It’s over. The issue has been decided.” To those who con­tin­ued to resist, he vowed: “We will find you in your clos­ets. We will have no mercy and no pity.”..................."

Keep in mind that Qaddafi (Gadaffi, Kadafi, etc., sheesh after 30 years of dealing with this guy, a consensus would've been reached on his name's spelling by now ...)

Anyhow, keep in mind that dictators are infamous for blustering rhetoric even in the face of impossible odds. The Colonel will have to decide how he wants his "retirement" to proceed. He can either step down peacefully or start sending out execution squads. In the latter case, the UN may start sending in "peace keeping forces" (i.e. US and UK ground units). I doubt the Colonel wants that, for his ancient Soviet-era weaponry will be no match for coalition "peace keepers."

The Colonel should look at his fellow dictator, Saddam, and remember his fate before he resorts to near-genocidal campaign of revenge against the protesters.

Personally, I think he's bluffing and blustering, but only time will tell.

[mmhmm]

A French Airforce jet has fired the first shot to enforce the no-fly zone in Libya, according to the BBC.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12795971

[privateinvestor]

Most people believe that is a function of leadership, not news reporters.


News Flash.....President Obama has delegated the leadership for the Libyan War to his Secretary of State Mrs Hillary Rodham Clinton....he of course as you know has other things on his plate today.....

[billisonboard]

Mar 19, 2011 14:32:32 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

Most people believe that is a function of leadership, not news reporters.


News Flash.....President Obama has delegated the leadership for the Libyan War to his Secretary of State Mrs Hillary Rodham Clinton....he of course as you know has other things on his plate today.....

The French are taking the lead in external support for the Libyan people in their Civil War. The Secretary of State is an excellent choice to represent the United States in talks concerning what role the US might play in the situation.

[privateinvestor]

BREAKING NEWS: U.S. launches attack on Libyan forces - NBC. Developing.


U.S. launches missile strikes against Libya

French war planes destroy 4 Libyan tanks as allies target Gadhafi forces

[deziloooooo]

This article is from the media source "Debka"....they seem to be in on many things with their articles
___--------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.debka.com/article/20784
-----------------------------------------------------------
French air force over Benghazi: US opts out of first anti-Qaddafi action

DEBKAfile Special Report March 19, 2011, 5:21 PM (GMT+02:00)

Rafale fighters fly over Beghanzi,

debkafile's special sources report that French warplanes went into attack formation over Libya Saturday afternoon, March 19, without waiting for 22 world powers meeting in Paris to issue a communiqué confirming a military operation against Muammar Qaddafi in line with the UN Security Council resolution. It was agreed that France, Britain, Norway, Qatar and Canada would take part in the offensive with 31 targets planned for first stage, 2 military airfields and Qaddafi's palace in the second and Libyan forces in the third. Britain and France have imposed a sea blockade on Libyan shores. French defense officials says French fighter jet has fired on a Libyan military vehicle. Twenty planes taking part in mission.
As the operation began, Washington issued a special statement say that the US is not involved in the first action but plans sea-launched missile attackswithout offering a timeline. It was initially assumed thatan American sea attack on Col. Qaddafi will take place at a later stage of the military operation, but another comment by US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton after attending the Paris conference further reduced that option too. She said that American would support its allies wit its exclusive resources in enforcing UN Resolution 1973, making no mention of sea-launched missiles.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
[Click on link to read article]

[Deleted]

US has now fired missiles, from what I hear, from the water. French is flying.. nice, isn't it, to not be alone, or even first? What does this mean? Obama trying not to be responsible for what comes next? And-- what is that? Is it weakness, community organizing, or just Obama's peculiar way of making war without the blame for it down the road?

[privateinvestor]

The Secretary of Defense Bob Gates cancelled his trip to Italy to be at the Pentagon while our forces were engaged in Libya but his boss decided not to cancel his trip....something doesn't seem right here...for some reason??

Or maybe this is the new Obama .. "When the shooting starts get out of Dodge".... Is this our new foreign policy towards intervention in the Middle East or North Africa??

[Deleted]

Community organizers do not make war--
He still cannot even figure out the best political way for him to deal with the terrorists in Gitmo. Poor Obama-- waiting for his handlers to tell him what to do...... may as well do a photo op in Brazil...............
They ALWAYS start major crap on Fridays, I have noticed for a long time now-- hoping people will not be paying attention for 2 days....

[privateinvestor]

Ok thanx I got them ...Ratchets....and good to see your PMs are being used for their intended purpose

[mmhmm]

Mar 19, 2011 15:35:33 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

US has now fired missiles, from what I hear, from the water. French is flying.. nice, isn't it, to not be alone, or even first? What does this mean? Obama trying not to be responsible for what comes next? And-- what is that? Is it weakness, community organizing, or just Obama's peculiar way of making war without the blame for it down the road?

Or, it might be something as simple as France having been the first country to recognize the insurgents in Libya as the legitimate representative for the Libyan people. That happened about a week ago, I think, give or take. England has also been very vocal in wanting a no-fly zone over Libya, and both are hawkish about getting Gadhafi out.

[deziloooooo]

CNN..over 102 tomahawks fired into Libya, both by US as well as coalition ships, think went after 50 % of their air defenses, Communications, will take 6/8 hours to see where they are at now,
Complete picture as to what it has accomplished.

Right now being commanded by American Admiral, command will probably be turned over to a coalition Commander with in day or so.
Libya spokesman on radio/TV saying Libya under attack, called "Odyssey Dawn ".

This is, from American military spokesman, just the first phase , more to come, possible this evening.

President , in Brazil, has been getting up to minute happenings as to what is going down.

Guess he isn't needed yet to lead the attack. Lead from the front is the way to go from some comments posted here, possible with a bayonet fixed in position.
{I wonder if there will now be complaints of the cost, 100 missiles, have to cost a pretty penny. One of the commentators on CNN suggested if all successful, even if not, after this thing is over, the coalition forces, put bills in for costs, have the money taken out of the frozen Libyan funds before $ given back. That makes so much sense, they were talking of cost of as much as $300 million per week on a full country lock down, less so if less of a lock down]

[privateinvestor]

Or, it might be something as simple as France having been the first country to recognize the insurgents in Libya as the legitimate representative for the Libyan people. That happened about a week ago, I think, give or take. England has also been very vocal in wanting a no-fly zone over Libya, and both are hawkish about getting Gadhafi out.


I think it was more of the French and Great Britain wanted to take out Khadafy than a no fly zone which really doesn't do much now this late in the Libyan Civil War and they had a rough time getting all of the Arab states to agree...meanwhile Obama was working on his basketball brackets selections, I guess..??

[mmhmm]

Mar 19, 2011 16:22:54 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

Or, it might be something as simple as France having been the first country to recognize the insurgents in Libya as the legitimate representative for the Libyan people. That happened about a week ago, I think, give or take. England has also been very vocal in wanting a no-fly zone over Libya, and both are hawkish about getting Gadhafi out.


I think it was more of the French and Great Britain wanted to take out Khadafy than a no fly zone which really doesn't do much now this late in the Libyan Civil War and they had a rough time getting all of the Arab states to agree...meanwhile Obama was working on his basketball brackets selections, I guess..??

Nope. France was fretting for a no-fly zone over a week ago, with Britain right behind them. They were both angry because they felt the US was dragging its feet. Can't remember where I read that. I'll try to look it up when I get time.

[deziloooooo]

Mar 19, 2011 16:22:54 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

Or, it might be something as simple as France having been the first country to recognize the insurgents in Libya as the legitimate representative for the Libyan people. That happened about a week ago, I think, give or take. England has also been very vocal in wanting a no-fly zone over Libya, and both are hawkish about getting Gadhafi out.


I think it was more of the French and Great Britain wanted to take out Khadafy than a no fly zone which really doesn't do much now this late in the Libyan Civil War and they had a rough time getting all of the Arab states to agree...meanwhile Obama was working on his basketball brackets selections, I guess..??

Not according to reports coming in, seems some coalition country's were/may have been upset with France starting before the plans were finalized and that Obama wants to make sure this is not a unilateral attack by the US, which to many around the world, considering our past history, and the way the world looks at our actions in the past , makes sense to me, naturally not from some posters here .

General Clark is on CNN now. Saying that it is a compromise way, take some defenses out, but let French take the lead, by sending planes over early, make a statement to Gaddafi, thinks Obama has done good job so far but let those who have immediate interests France, UK, take the lead, we are in the supporting role, so far well done, suggests stay with the program for now, will put pressure on Gaddafi.

UN mandate , calls just for protecting civilian population , not regime change , for now. Diplomatic actions will be possible done behind the scenes , to remove Gaddafi , negotiating with, getting him out of there, it's just the beginning.

[privateinvestor]

Mar 19, 2011 16:36:39 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Mar 19, 2011 16:22:54 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

Or, it might be something as simple as France having been the first country to recognize the insurgents in Libya as the legitimate representative for the Libyan people. That happened about a week ago, I think, give or take. England has also been very vocal in wanting a no-fly zone over Libya, and both are hawkish about getting Gadhafi out.


mmhmm...I think it was more of the French and Great Britain wanted to take out Khadafy than a no fly zone which really doesn't do much now this late in the Libyan Civil War and they had a rough time getting all of the Arab states to agree...meanwhile Obama was working on his basketball brackets selections, I guess..??

Nope. France was fretting for a no-fly zone over a week ago, with Britain right behind them. They were both angry because they felt the US was dragging its feet. Can't remember where I read that. I'll try to look it up when I get time.

A No Fly Zone doesn't really help that much in this war. You can see now how the NATO planes are flying bombing missions rather than engaging with Khadahfy's Air Force in a no fly zone....

But the more important question is how long before Khadahfy will capitulate?? Or will he be taken out by some coup or a rebel which would bring this war to a screeching halt ..

[Deleted]

Who is reporting civilian casualties from US missiles? I have not seen that, but news is denying it is true, saying the propaganda war is starting.........

[deziloooooo]

Mar 19, 2011 16:41:29 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

Mar 19, 2011 16:36:39 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Nope. France was fretting for a no-fly zone over a week ago, with Britain right behind them. They were both angry because they felt the US was dragging its feet. Can't remember where I read that. I'll try to look it up when I get time.

A No Fly Zone doesn't really help that much in this war. You can see now how the NATO planes are flying bombing missions than engaging with Gaddafi's Air Force...

It seems that there is a bit more then that, 110 missiles are a nice start, and while it calls for no ground forces, depends on how that is interpreted.

Special units, to contact resistance leaders if any, also to call in air strike, other wise just a air cover is hard to be effective.

It was suggested that Qaddafi might try to move forces into insurgents territory during the evening so they are there, towns, cities, even largest towns , cities and there air power would not be effective.

The insurgents are not a armed trained force, a bunch of civilians with some weapons, no training .

As I said before, I am sure most havent even cleaned what weapons they have, unable to break them down, know nothing of how to conserve ammunition, practice fire control, forget knowing how to fire and maneuver and really dig in and take cover or place /site automatic weapons for effective fire on the enemy.

I doubt if they have any types of communications with units either, at a great disadvantage, not even sure they have patrols set up to watch for infiltration of their lines what ever they are by Gaddafi's forces in the evening.

t sure how effective his forces are in moving and maneuvering in the dark either, not a easy maneuver by non trained personnel.

[mmhmm]

Gadhafi's government is reporting civilian casualties, krickitt.

[privateinvestor]

Mar 19, 2011 16:51:21 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

Who is reporting civilian casualties from US missiles? I have not seen that, but news is denying it is true, saying the propaganda war is starting.........

Turn on CNN who is covering it or you can get updates every fifteen minutes on CBS Radio...

[privateinvestor]

Note: This has nothing to do with being a bloodthirsty neanderthal, but the fact that a country could be ridding itself of a tyrannical ruler. I know it's not big news like the invasion of Normandy or anything, but these are events that shape our world. It would be great to have a more active part in it.


I just wish that Khadahfy was ousted a long time ago.. Reagan to his credit who called him the Mad Dog of the Middle East tried to get him but missed him by a few kilometers in 1986... who knows what will happen now...??

[deziloooooo]

Mar 19, 2011 16:58:26 GMT -5 Ratchets said:

All quiet on the ratchets front. I am sitting here with my thumb up my butt watching the news with my wife. We were all put on telephone standby last week, but there isn't a whole lot we can do unless we put troops on the ground. I suppose we could go to 24-hour ops, but since we are currently running two ten hour shifts that would mean a change to two twelve hour shifts. Truth be told, I feel anxious or maybe the need to be involved. Don't care too much to be sitting on the sidelines, watching it go down on TV. My wife however, is NOT amused, and thinks the TV is just about a perfect angle to watch from.

Note: This has nothing to do with being a bloodthirsty neanderthal, but the fact that a country could be ridding itself of a tyrannical ruler. I know it's not big news like the invasion of Normandy or anything, but these are events that shape our world. It would be great to have a more active part in it.

Understand your frustration, suggest, listen to the better half, a great place to watch actions like this actually, you know that I am sure.

[mmhmm]

Here's another place for frequent updates, ratchets:

news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/19/libya-live-blog-gadhafi-to-obama-sarkozy-butt-out/?hpt=T1This CNN up-to-the-minute blog does update quite often, if not every darned minute!

[billisonboard]

Mar 19, 2011 17:00:24 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

Note: This has nothing to do with being a bloodthirsty neanderthal, but the fact that a country could be ridding itself of a tyrannical ruler. I know it's not big news like the invasion of Normandy or anything, but these are events that shape our world. It would be great to have a more active part in it.


I just wish that Khadahfy was ousted a long time ago.. Reagan to his credit who called him the Mad Dog of the Middle East tried to get him but missed him by a few kilometers in 1986... who knows what will happen now...??

Called him a name and missed him. Yes, another sterling example of the accomplishments of Ronald Reagan.

[mmhmm]

No problem, Ratchets. I've found it very helpful, as I haven't had a lot of time today.