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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2011 18:57:39 GMT -5
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 19, 2011 19:12:36 GMT -5
Sure is looking that way.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Mar 19, 2011 19:42:18 GMT -5
Ratchets, and anyone else who may be interested. I believe the Libyan rebels might be glad to get anything the west can provide, , , , , except their people. Not yet anyway.
There was once an American toast that went something like this, "better dead than red". From what I see and hear it appears the Libyans have something similar to say about westerners in Libya killing Libyans. . . .
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Mar 19, 2011 22:39:55 GMT -5
With air strikes against Qaddafi's mercenaries and loyal troops, they will quickly fall into disarray is my guess. That leaves Qaddafi in a box. My question is what will be the end result of the conflict? Will we see another pupit dictator government take over or will they select a democratic form of government? The answer either way will have a profound impact on the middle east.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Mar 20, 2011 0:28:04 GMT -5
Here's a thought that while I have been waiting to see what was coming, I had not considered. It was in my e-mail.
"........ I expect Colonel Kaddafi will soon try and launch air strikes on our U.S ships in the Mediterranean Sea in response to our attack on his nation. If he can get his jets airborne he may even try and hit our military bases in Italy just north of his location about 600 miles. Aviano Air Base needs to get ready. Our phalanx systems and air defense systems will take them down but if there is a nut job suicide pilot looking for his 72 Virgins expect casualties. President Obama has in effect declared war on a sovereign nation and we must be prepared for terrorist attacks on our interests in North Africa and across Southern Europe. I urge the State Dept to increase security at our embassies in North Africa and Italy. Khadafy will pay huge sums of money to terrorist groups in nations for example Al Quaida in Somalia to hit us. Be prepared Boy Scouts. To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. ............"
The writer may be right. Kadhafi may have friends all over hte middle east just waiting to zap some more Americans, both at sea and on all the lands over there wherever Americans of any stripe can be found.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 20, 2011 1:18:29 GMT -5
With air strikes against Qaddafi's mercenaries and loyal troops, they will quickly fall into disarray is my guess. That leaves Qaddafi in a box. My question is what will be the end result of the conflict? Will we see another pupit dictator government take over or will they select a democratic form of government? The answer either way will have a profound impact on the middle east. handyman when I saw your post I got curiouse and did google on Luibya, what the hell do we really know about the country really. Not much, beyond knowing it's been under the control opf Gaddafi for 43 years, overthrew the former king, he was stealing to much of the oil money and knowing the rest of the common things. Interesting things found out. Once very lush, all the ancient powers seem to have been involved there, Carthage, Rome, Greeks, Europeons, Turkey when a power, Italy , all been there. Hugh in territory, wealthy with oil, few people, not even 7 million. There is even a semi temporary governor in , former UN official, in Bengasi with a freedom council. Once Gaddafi is gone, they will have to work it out, just like we did. It's not Haiti, there are wealthy in oil, and few people, just wasted their $ under Gaddafi, but plenty of oil is still there so it's up to them as to how they spend it. Looks like they have the makings of a good state, if they want it . That part isn't our problem. ------------------------------------------------------ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libya
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Shirina
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Post by Shirina on Mar 20, 2011 4:21:17 GMT -5
The Colonel does not have the forces nor the technology to mount such an attack. Much of his equipment is 30+ years old, and thanks to the weapons embargo, he has no "4th or 5th generation" weapon systems. There is also no way that Libyan aircraft could travel 600 miles without being shot down by coalition aircraft, and the Italians, who fly state-of-the-art Typhoons, would see them coming well in advance.
Keep in mind that the Libyans posed almost no threat to US forces even in the 1980's when the technology gap wasn't so huge. American F-14s routinely shot down Libyan MiG-23s during the Gulf of Sidra/Line of Death skirmishes in 1985-86.
An aircraft would never survive intact enough to initiate a WWII Kamikaze style attack on a naval vessel. Modern anti-air defense systems literally pulverize enemy aircraft, for the most part.
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 20, 2011 5:19:07 GMT -5
STORY HIGHLIGHTS Defense secretary, vice president opposed U.S. action Arab League statement "changed the landscape" Secretary of state pressed UAE for support
Washington (CNN) -- President Barack Obama's decision to undertake military action in Libya to enforce a no-fly zone was the product of an administration debate with unlikely bedfellows.
Initially, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was skeptical of the U.S. joining a military coalition. But senior U.S. officials said advances last weekend made by forces loyal to Gadhafi in retaking rebel strongholds in the east, which opened up the possibility of thousands more being killed, convinced her action was necessary.
Additionally, a statement by the Arab League calling for the United Nations to enforce a no-fly zone, Clinton told reporters Saturday, "changed the diplomatic landscape."
As Britain and France pushed for a quick U.N. Security Council resolution authorizing a no-fly zone, officials said Clinton teamed up with Susan Rice, U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, in creating the conditions for a resolution with the broadest possible authority and the largest international support.
Clinton made the case that U.S. support for a no-fly zone was conditioned on Arab participation and leadership. In Paris, Clinton met with her counterparts in town for a meeting of the Group of 8 foreign ministers and with Abdullah bin Zayed, the foreign minister of the United Arab Emirates. Even as she criticized the UAE for its recent decision to send forces to quell a rebellion in Bahrain, Clinton pressed him to send planes to Libya.
International coalition confronts Libya
Clinton: Time for intl. community to act RELATED TOPICS Libya Hillary Clinton Susan Rice As Clinton traveled to Cairo and Tunisia seeking Arab buy-in for the resolution, officials said Rice built support in New York for the resolution. Samantha Power, an adviser to Obama on the National Security Council and a human rights activist, was also urging the president to intervene
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 20, 2011 5:23:27 GMT -5
Clinton's alliance with Rice and Power in pushing for intervention put her at odds with Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who had publicly argued against a no-fly zone. Sources said Vice President Joe Biden was also more cautious, arguing for the smallest possible U.S. involvement in any military action. A senior administration official said that "like the president, the vice president wanted any action taken with a broad international coalition." The official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive military planning, said when the vice president "saw that was achievable, he supported the policy to seek the military intervention." After meeting with Amr Moussa, secretary general of the Arab League, in Cairo Tuesday night, officials said Clinton called Obama, telling him the Arabs were willing to take part in the no-fly zone. That participation, officials said, was critical for the administration, which was concerned about the perception of invading a third Arab country. "In order for us to go along, it was important for the Arabs to have some skin in the game," one senior official said. www.cnn.com/2011/US/03/19/us.libya.action/index.html?hpt=T1
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 20, 2011 5:39:47 GMT -5
We ramped up security in preparation (or in advance maybe is the better term). I don't think it would be wise to get into specifics, but that is something folks are aware of - the possibility of someone loyal to Kadhafi's regime instigating a terrorist attack. I have had a thought, and it's something along those lines. The coalition is trying to change something here..his life, by removing him from power eventually. This is not a sane man, in his mind he is but he isn't. I can see him supporting the leaders of al Quida, with large funds, to do their thing, this man and his family are incredibly wealthy, Billions. I am sure they have $ secreted around the world. Not for ideological reasons , just for revenge, and it would be spent against all those he hates. Europe, the Saudi Royal House, ourselves. It doesn't have to be Osama himself, just whoever is in a position today to do these things. If they know where he is, they should just take him out. It's reported that he is holed up in his complex, hardened I am sure and I understand that civilian supporters of his, I guess he has them have gathered there to form a human shield around him, thus there would be heavy casualties but still, and the thing is, it would be imperative that if they decided to do so, they would have to get him and that is not always so easy. I do hope my thoughts are just thoughts one gets very early in the AM and are irrational and poppycock, what the world doesn't need is a multi Billionaire and his family who want to get some payback and don't care who they hurt.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2011 10:12:12 GMT -5
It sure seems like the USA is doing the majority of the action here. Now our planes are in action. They say in a few days it will be turned over to coalition forces. REALLY??? Just how would that work, or will they leave us holding the bag here after all the dead civilian reports start piling up? Also- the Arab nations involved are few and pretty quiet so far. He has his killers hiding in the cities-- how can this work with nobody on the ground. And I hear Quaddafi may even stay in power. Also-- I have a question... we don't seem to mind genocide in some places-- why Libya?? I have heard so many times over the years, Saddam, etc-- that there are evil dictators everywhere, etc.. so why here?? Why are these people more important than other people we have allowed to be slaughtered over the years? Is it oil again, like so many people said about Iraq, and blamed Bush mercilessly for?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2011 11:45:38 GMT -5
MARCH 19, 2011 OBAMA: 'Today we are part of a broad coalition. We are answering the calls of a threatened people. And we are acting in the interests of the United States and the world'...
MARCH 19, 2003 BUSH: 'American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger'...
I found that on Drudge. Interesting.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2011 11:51:21 GMT -5
Yeah... difference is... this coalition actually has significant committed resources from large countries... and we are a part of it... not leading it... as long as it stays that way... i'm good... There was no wide spread UN support for Iraq... and there certainly wasn't Arab Nation request for the UN to intercede...
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Mar 20, 2011 11:52:36 GMT -5
MARCH 19, 2011 OBAMA: 'Today we are part of a broad coalition. We are answering the calls of a threatened people. And we are acting in the interests of the United States and the world'... MARCH 19, 2003 BUSH: 'American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger'... I found that on Drudge. Interesting. Sounds like their speech writers couldn't find any other way of putting it without making them look like complete morons.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2011 12:53:32 GMT -5
I always wonder if presidents are the true power, or if they are puppets. Then you read those comments side by side coming from "opposites." Makes me wonder again. TV is saying we are NOT leading this thing, but some general just said we ARE leading it, that we are the command center, etc. I have no idea, just trying to figure it all out. One thing for sure-- this is NOT Bush's war. UN or not, Obama owns this one. Quadaffi promises it will be a long one............
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Mar 20, 2011 12:58:37 GMT -5
President= puppet, a lot of his advisers are all bankers/ consultants for bankers. Why do you think they keep backing up the banks, because that is where their allegiances are.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2011 13:05:00 GMT -5
So we just switch sides every few years to keep the sheeples and one issue voters thinking they have some input, while the real powers keep doing whatever the hell it is they are doing. It kind of disgusts me.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 20, 2011 13:08:46 GMT -5
I always wonder if presidents are the true power, or if they are puppets. Then you read those comments side by side coming from "opposites." Makes me wonder again. TV is saying we are NOT leading this thing, but some general just said we ARE leading it, that we are the command center, etc. I have no idea, just trying to figure it all out. One thing for sure-- this is NOT Bush's war. UN or not, Obama owns this one. Quadaffi promises it will be a long one............ If you mean he's the President who was in charge when it started, your correct. This time he is one of many, granted a major one, he represents the USA in the coalition, which , so far anyway, also has the Arab League involved too. The thing is, the Arab League also doesn't really represent the populace that well as far as their desires. I really don't know what the consensus is of the man in the street for example , average Arab citizen, regarding this UN involvement. At least here we can have a opinion express and in the media of in favor of , not in favor of , by the populace. So far it seems that opinion over all is in favor of the event. I doubt that any here would have been happy if Gaddafi forces had over run Benghazi and started to collect their pound of flesh on the populace and we as well as the allies had just sat back with the condemnations as the only response. IMHO.
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Mar 20, 2011 13:14:21 GMT -5
So we just switch sides every few years to keep the sheeples and one issue voters thinking they have some input, while the real powers keep doing whatever the hell it is they are doing. It kind of disgusts me. Bingo, just go rent " Inside job" you can get it at a redbox for 1$.
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 20, 2011 13:26:44 GMT -5
In a statement broadcast on state TV, his military said the strikes killed 48 people -- "mostly women, children and religious clerics."
"The majority of these attacks were on public areas, hospitals and schools. They frightened the children and women near those areas that were subject to this aggression," the military said.
That statement was issued by the Khadahfy forces last night and CNN said they have been unable to confirm whether or not it is factual ..
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2011 13:31:12 GMT -5
"Inside Job." Will do. But Dez-- what about the blacks in Africa, can't remember where, several places, I think-- holocaust situation over there, and we did- nothing, as far as I know. Why are these people more important than those is my question? The whole story of saving the Libyans just does not fly in the face of other slaughters we have allowed. I'm not arguing, I just don't "get" it. I also don't get why the anti-war people are not going ballistic. Just because this is Obama's war? That makes no sense to me, either.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Mar 20, 2011 13:34:14 GMT -5
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Mar 20, 2011 13:35:04 GMT -5
Obama is just finishing Reagan's war against Libya! We gotta stop being the world's policeman. Impeach the sucker!
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 20, 2011 14:00:35 GMT -5
Henry you have a private message (PM)
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 20, 2011 15:22:50 GMT -5
In a statement broadcast on state TV, his military said the strikes killed 48 people -- "mostly women, children and religious clerics."
"The majority of these attacks were on public areas, hospitals and schools. They frightened the children and women near those areas that were subject to this aggression," the military said.That statement was issued by the Khadahfy forces last night and CNN said they have been unable to confirm whether or not it is factual .. If they wanted to they could have done a "road of death ", similer to the highway out of Kuwait, supposedly Gaddafis forces were spread out in military formation leading to the insurgents forces. Benghazi. As one retired General said and then when asked if he could address gaddafi's commanders, suggesting some are watchiong CNN...in a way , as they sit in these command posts, they realized they have a decision to make. Stay with gaddafi and be brought up ion charges as a war criiminal, the orders given them to fire on their own ililians is a illegal order under the rules of war and also realize by staying with him, Gaddafi, they too will be targets of the coalition forces as these military command areas are targeted, they have a choice to make. Coalition trying to give the word to the military, to stay with Gaddafi, there are major consequences to consider and to go over to the other side and seperate themselves might be a good idea to think about. Split Gaddafi from his commanders and forces. CNN seems to think that a missle might have been targeted at his compund, Palace ..not sure. Admiral saying now, the mobile triple A, so many, best to avoid then try to target all of them. He said they will strike from Tripoli to south of Benghazi. No time line on the transfer of command to a coalation command, at this time.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 20, 2011 15:30:19 GMT -5
This isn't Obama's war. This action was declared by the UN, not Obama.
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 20, 2011 15:34:25 GMT -5
This isn't Obama's war. This action was declared by the UN, not Obama. Yea but remember we were not alone going into Iraq and it became Bush's war because as General Powell rightfully said to Bush..and I am paraphrasing...."Iraq is like a precious vase, if you break it in an antique shop you will own it.? Plus Colonel Khadahfy and his two sons are on TV complaining that we are the ones who are responsible for attacking him and killing his people and you know the Arab World is listening to him and not to you Ma'am in all due respect
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2011 15:43:35 GMT -5
Sorry, mmhmm, this IS Obama's war. And when everyone abandons us it will be even more so. I clearly remember Dems in Congress being in favor of the other wars, before.... yadayadayada............ I just heard some other general, from inside the Pentagon, say we ARE leading this war, and hoping to turn it over to coalition forces in a few days. Lots of his answers about just WHO that will be, especially the Arabs participating, were really vague. I'm flipping channels, as I usually do, and there is conflicting news out there, as usual. This is kind of serious, though, a brand new war and all, so I would like some TRUTH. PI, ratchets, any of you military guys-- do you have any military links you can share, or are they all secret?
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 20, 2011 15:45:28 GMT -5
I'm flipping channels, as I usually do, and there is conflicting news out there, as usual. This is kind of serious, though, a brand new war and all, so I would like some TRUTH. PI, ratchets, any of you military guys-- do you have any military links you can share, or are they all secret? Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=politics&action=display&thread=5019&page=3#ixzz1HAtfKMBRYea I do....it is the USMC news website used by the active, reserves, and families of those in Harm's Way...so it should NOT be classified I think?? But as I said before very quiet today but does share some insights about Libya UN No Fly Zone Resolution 1973 and Japan Rescue and Recovery you might be interested in.. My old unit is in the Afghan... www.marines.mil/news/Pages/marinestv.aspx
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Mar 20, 2011 16:12:55 GMT -5
This isn't Obama's war. This action was declared by the UN, not Obama. I thought the U.S. was part of the UN? Good thing to know if I am in a gang and not the leader that I have no responsibility for what I do lol. The UN would never have gone in if they knew for sure that we would vote no or they would have done it long before now.
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