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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2011 16:49:12 GMT -5
Thx, PI. I will not join, do not qualify for that, but I will try to read it, if allowed. ratchets-- just as well you are doing other things. Infuriating is what it is, just wanting to know the truth, and seeing conflicting stories of what is true.
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 20, 2011 16:52:16 GMT -5
Thx, PI. I will not join, do not qualify for that, but I will try to read it, if allowed. ratchets-- just as well you are doing other things. Infuriating is what it is, just wanting to know the truth, and seeing conflicting stories of what is true. Just click on the usmc.news link & watch the videos...it is ok..
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2011 18:59:01 GMT -5
Reports Quadaffi's compound was hit hard. Did anyone else hear those? SO-- since he has surrounded himself with human shield supporter civilians-- here come the real life reports of dead civilians... maybe.. who can believe a word he says, and why in the hell would anyone volunteer to stay and die?? These people are very strange.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 20, 2011 19:03:31 GMT -5
Sorry, mmhmm, this IS Obama's war. And when everyone abandons us it will be even more so. I clearly remember Dems in Congress being in favor of the other wars, before.... yadayadayada............ I just heard some other general, from inside the Pentagon, say we ARE leading this war, and hoping to turn it over to coalition forces in a few days. Lots of his answers about just WHO that will be, especially the Arabs participating, were really vague. I'm flipping channels, as I usually do, and there is conflicting news out there, as usual. This is kind of serious, though, a brand new war and all, so I would like some TRUTH. PI, ratchets, any of you military guys-- do you have any military links you can share, or are they all secret? No, krickitt, it is not Obama's war. It is that only to you, and those like you, who are looking for something to use to denigrate the president of this country, whom you do not happen to like. I didn't vote for the man, either; however, I'm not the type to pull this kind of rot. I'll leave that to you and yours.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2011 19:15:24 GMT -5
I speak ROT? Mrs. mmhmm says I speak ROT??? Yeah, okay, high and mighty mmhmm. Thx for letting me know I speak ROT, which means I think ROT, which means-- exactly what, mmhmm? In your humble and enlightened opinion, of course.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 20, 2011 19:38:57 GMT -5
"Inside Job." Will do. But Dez-- what about the blacks in Africa, can't remember where, several places, I think-- holocaust situation over there, and we did- nothing, as far as I know. Why are these people more important than those is my question? The whole story of saving the Libyans just does not fly in the face of other slaughters we have allowed. I'm not arguing, I just don't "get" it. I also don't get why the anti-war people are not going ballistic. Just because this is Obama's war? That makes no sense to me, either. Sorry Krickett, just noticed your question. that happened on Clinton's watch , and your correct nothing was done. There were so many slaughtered, raped , disfigured by machetes. Somalia. I can't remember when , wasn't it close to the "Black hawk Down " happening. Clinton apologized to the populace for his neglect when he was there on a humanitarian trip after he left office. I think that was one of the reasons Obama had a change of heart, as Gaddafi's forces were approaching Benghazi, the insurgent held major city, 700,000 people and Qaddafi said they would look in the closets for the ones who were guilty of the rising against him, promising a blood bath, and he didn't want to be found just sitting as that went down. It wasn't just us, the rest of the world sat back on Somalia too, not wanting to get involved, thus the slaughter of the innocents.
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Mar 20, 2011 19:44:57 GMT -5
You can't believe ANYTHING Ghadafi's side says say, period. But I do think we should offer him an alternative. Probably are...Vive LA FRANCE!!
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Mar 20, 2011 19:50:37 GMT -5
Rwanda happened in darkest Africa, before Facebook. Times HAVE changed...
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Mar 20, 2011 19:54:21 GMT -5
We are leading the war only until the no fly zone is complete- then the FORCE DE FRAPPE takes over...LOL!!
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Mar 20, 2011 20:18:26 GMT -5
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Mar 20, 2011 20:25:06 GMT -5
This isn't Obama's war. This action was declared by the UN, not Obama. I evidently missed the announcement the UN is picking up our $100,000,000 a day cost to implement this little police action, of a "no fly zone". If we are paying for it, it is Obama's war. And I sincerely doubt, attacking tanks and trucks with troops on a highway, is considered defending the "no fly zone", which is the UN mandate.
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 20, 2011 20:40:12 GMT -5
LOL! 2008 called, dupe, they want your propaganda back...
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 20, 2011 21:06:09 GMT -5
This isn't Obama's war. This action was declared by the UN, not Obama. I evidently missed the announcement the UN is picking up our $100,000,000 a day cost to implement this little police action, of a "no fly zone". If we are paying for it, it is Obama's war. And I sincerely doubt, attacking tanks and trucks with troops on a highway, is considered defending the "no fly zone", which is the UN mandate. ---------------------------------------------------------- I like the idea of one of the commentators on CNN who suggested when this is over, and hopefully Gaddafi is gone, into exile where ever, buried under the rubble, the frozen funds that we and other nations have taken away from him...why not deduct the sums spent before they are released to the new government, also charges for humanitarian aid such as food, medical, what is going to be needed. They should be grateful, removed the thorn in their side, saved thousands from being murdered, risked the lives of the troops taking part, all are in a dangerous business, special forces, I am sure they would be on the ground, pilots , refueling crews... It is $ they never expected to see, they are a wealthy country, not a basket case , in fact a contribution to the UN would be in order as a thank you. I am sure there are Billions.
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Mar 20, 2011 22:00:12 GMT -5
The UN resolution added "and anything neccessary to protect civilians". We're learning to trust...Times have changed from stupid arrogant Pub chickenhawks. Very clever ED- got any facts, or just stupid insults and Fox Vomit?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2011 22:01:06 GMT -5
Fox Vomit... lol... i'm gonna use that....
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Mar 20, 2011 22:29:49 GMT -5
Dupe knowledge is a mile wide ande an inch deep. Kinda people who get violent when it's pointed out. the truth hurts..."Short but sweet"...
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Mar 20, 2011 22:32:19 GMT -5
Anyone who believes ANYTHING Ghaddafi says...well, that's blindness...what a nutjob...
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Shirina
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Post by Shirina on Mar 20, 2011 22:39:12 GMT -5
That's akin to calling Iraq and Afghanistan Tony Blair's war.
Once combat operations have begun, threat targets can be prosecuted. This isn't a situation where pro-Khadaffi forces can fire anti-aircraft weapons from the ground with complete impunity. Prohibiting ground targets from being hit would ensure allied planes would be lost in greater numbers, for no matter how many AAMGs are banging away at our planes or how many SAMs are launched, our pilots can do nothing but give them stern looks.
Our forces simply cannot conduct its mission if troops on the ground are allowed to keep their anti-aircraft weaponry. Since AA guns are being hauled around in the backs of pick-ups these days, it's difficult to tell just what the allied planes are hitting. Even APCs and scout vehicles can carry small, short-ranged SAMs which the USSR had (and sold) in abundance.
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 20, 2011 23:30:13 GMT -5
If you had read or checkout UN Resolution 1973 you might just learn that is more than just a NO FLY Zone.. Demanding an immediate ceasefire in Libya, including an end to the current attacks against civilians, which it said might constitute “crimes against humanity”, the Security Council this evening imposed a ban on all flights in the country’s airspace — a no-fly zone — and tightened sanctions on the Qadhafi regime and its supporters. Adopting resolution 1973 (2011) by a vote of 10 in favour to none against, with 5 abstentions (Brazil, China, Germany, India, Russian Federation), the Council authorized Member States, acting nationally or through regional organizations or arrangements, to take all necessary measures to protect civilians under threat of attack in the country, including Benghazi, while excluding a foreign occupation force of any form on any part of Libyan territory — requesting them to immediately inform the Secretary-General of such measures. Recognizing the important role of the League of Arab States in the maintenance of international peace and security in the region, and bearing in mind the United Nations Charter’s Chapter VIII, the Council asked the League’s member States to cooperate with other Member States in implementing the no-fly zone. The Council stressed the need to intensify efforts to find a solution to the crisis that responded to the legitimate demands of the Libyan people, noting actions being taken on the diplomatic front in that regard. It further demanded that Libyan authorities comply with their obligations under international law and take all measures to protect civilians and meet their basic needs and to ensure the rapid and unimpeded passage of humanitarian assistance. In that connection, the Council specified that the flight ban would not apply to flights that had as their sole purpose humanitarian aid, the evacuation of foreign nationals, enforcing the ban or other purposes “deemed necessary for the benefit of the Libyan people”. It further decided that all States should deny permission to any Libyan commercial aircraft to land in or take off from their territory unless a particular flight had been approved in advance by the committee that was established to monitor sanctions imposed by resolution 1970 (2011). In tightening the asset freeze and arms embargo established by that resolution, the Council this evening further detailed conditions for inspections of transport suspected to be violating the embargo, requesting States enforcing the embargo to coordinate closely with each other and the Secretary-General on the measures they were taking towards www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2011/sc10200.doc.htm
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 20, 2011 23:36:38 GMT -5
Fox Vomit... lol... i'm gonna use that....
I'll pass on that but like the Fox Foxes much more especially Megan Kelly and Julie Banderos...
I just watched Admiral Mullins briefing about Libya and he said Khadhafy was NOT a target but that his palace was bombed just to send him a message, and the Admiral doesn't know how long this will last and doesn't know if the cease fire will hold or not..
So what the Admiral is saying this is a work in progress but so far the destruction of Khadahfy's forces has been right on and very successful..
But nobody knows what happens if Khadahfy is killed or goes into exile and what the new government in Libya will be..?? The Admiral said the UN is taking a big gamble backing the rebels in Libya because not much is known about them. But I have to believe we have Special Forces or Navy Seals in Libya working behind the scenes with the rebels....just a gut feeling or from too many wars??
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Mar 20, 2011 23:44:34 GMT -5
Council authorized Member States, acting nationally or through regional organizations or arrangements, to take all necessary measures to protect civilians under threat of attack in the country, including Benghazi, while excluding a foreign occupation force of any form on any part of Libyan territory — Exactly
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 20, 2011 23:48:42 GMT -5
Exactly .. Hey .. hello from Warsaw ...why not change your name to Give em Hell from Warsaw......?? BTW did you know that we are going to turn over this little war in Libya to the French and British in a few more days....apparently our President doesn't like this being called "Obama's War" so he wants us out ASAP...according to my unreliable sources and not from Fox Vomit or Fox Foxes.. And some Arab Sheiks are upset because the UN Air Strikes are much more devastating than they had imagined.. The Arabs wanted just a No Fly Zone with a few bombs dropped and not all this massive ordinance on the Khadahfy Military .. So Obama doesn't want to tick off the Arab Sheiks ..I guess?
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Mar 21, 2011 0:33:13 GMT -5
As planned. We are the only people with enough ordinance to shock and awe and organize all this...
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 21, 2011 0:58:04 GMT -5
The POTUS has a lot on his plate.
One of them , a biggie, is the Saudi King is not happy with him or us for not backing Mubarak more , though what the hell we could have done there differently to keep him in power, beyond turning the whole Egyptian and Arab populace in the region against us I haven't a clue, possible some here can give me the answer.
He will support Bahrain in keeping the Shia masses in that country, the majority of the population from over throwing the Monarchy , as right next door, is his oil and the majority of the populace in that part of Saudi Arabia is also Shia , and across the gulf is Iran, Shia too and looking to meddle, and no matter how much Clinton asks him and the Bahrain monarch to cool it with the heavy hand, they will not, have not.
He, the Saudi King has also made overtones to the Iranians , according to some reports, so who knows what is going through his mind.
The last thing we and the West need is a Saudi Arabia coming to a understanding with the Iranians, possible turning tio the Chinese as a major , major supplier, what they won't do to get a steady years of oil and have the $ to pay for it.
Thus to allow European nations to take the lead in the Lybian con flick to me , seems like a smart thing to do. It's hard to get real mad at the UK, Italy, France, the other partners of the alliance , long term. Pissed at Belgium? It just doesn't ring, but the big bad pro Israel USA, to be real upset with us, it sings. Something so many are use to, comes to the tip of the tongue very easily.
I really have a hard time understanding on the many posts here , the criticism of the Potus on his handling of this little event in Lybia Some say we should have taken unilateral action, forget the UN, Arb League, Nato, just gone in. others say we shouldn't even be part of the coalition, if Gaddafi killed thousands , so be it. Which is it, you can't have both.
For us to be in the lead on this one? Why? If not it is a smirch on our honor? It makes us weak? The strongest power , militarily , in the world, bar none.
If by not being the lead possible it might temper the old kings anger at us, he is very old and not well you know? That is so bad? Saudis possible dislike us a bit less?Such a bad thing. They have a lot of the balck stuff, for got the name, it will come to me but I know it's important, just give me a moment, oh yeah, that stuff called oil.
As I said , he, in fact any POTUS has a lot on his/their plate in a part of the world where it haven't even been touched as to how it is going to shake out yet, so as far as I am concerned, if he can get us out of this thing, get Gadafi out, get the Libyans to get to a point of figuring out what they really want, more power to him.
If it builds up the French, UK, Italians, Arab League, Belgium, hell Monaco , and what ever other Nato members are being involved and they build their prestige a bit , give them a well done, what is so wrong with that.
This thing in Lybia by the way, it's not done yet , that's for damn sure.
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 21, 2011 11:47:26 GMT -5
First Thoughts: At war... again Strikes on Libya begin... Congress puts the squeeze on Obama ... So does the left ... But the action in Libya appears consistent with the "Obama Doctrine" ... Being in Latin America during a war has caused an image problem for the White House ... It has been some kind of news whiplash -- Shutdown, what looming shutdown? Japan, what nuclear crisis? … Barbour staffs up in Florida, Rudy in New Hampshire, Palin in India -- today, she’s in Israel. From NBC's Chuck Todd, Domenico Montanaro, Ali Weinberg, and Carrie Dann *** At war... again: Three months ago, ask yourself how you would have answered the following question: “Guess which Arab nation President Obama would be newly launching cruise missiles at before the end of March?" How many countries would you have rattled off before you got to Libya? Point is: There have been some pretty fast moving developments in the Middle East and North Africa in first 80 days of 2011. *** And the squeeze from the left: Here was Obama supporter Andrew Sullivan over the weekend: "[T]the president is visiting Brazil! He doesn't have the time to explain to the American people properly the war that he, and he alone, decided on. Why tell the public? Their permission is irrelevant; as is the Congress's. The Washington Times calls the war 'illegal' without a Congressional vote. The only forces on the right that will support Obama will be the neocons. But they will be merciless in attacking the haphazard, zig-zagging way the president has ended up here. It's win-win for them. They can say: Obama is finally taking our advice. But if you want military intervention without 'dithering,' vote for Palin next time." In another post, Sullivan calls the decision by the administration "arrogant, high-handed and undemocratic," a "violation of core campaign promises by Obama," a "folly" that "shows contempt for the American people, and their views, and contempt for the Congress and its role in deliberating before going to war." And: "Who would have thought we'd elect Barack Obama to replicate the worst aspects of an unaccountable executive?" Meanwhile a group of consistently anti-war House Dems are not hiding their anger over this decision. firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/03/21/6312100-first-thoughts-at-war-again
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 21, 2011 11:52:52 GMT -5
Do we have an image problem?? *** Image problem: Still, it was striking and a bit odd to receive breaking news alerts and see pictures on television of an active war that the U.S. has significant involvement in -- and the president was in Brazil talking mainly about other issues. And it was unusual to see that it was French President Sarkozy out front to announce the start -- not the American president. "France is resolved to shoulder its role before history," Sarkozy said Saturday. Then again, it's what the White House preferred when dealing with a war in a third Arab nation. Further complicating the public relations problem for the White House -- some front pages in Brazil featured chummy pictures of Obama with Brazilian President Rousseff flanked by dramatic scenes of explosions in Libya (here, here, and here). On this trip, the president went to Brazil to talk trade, economy, and jobs, but once again -- predictably -- the message was stepped on by outside events. firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/201....ts-at-war-again
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 14:12:40 GMT -5
Geez-- talking international. I just heard Obama say in Chile--"..... a international event." I'm no brain surgeon, but I can speak proper English. Just saying...
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 22, 2011 9:13:33 GMT -5
Latest this AM on Libya...we lost a F-16 but both flyers ejected safely and are back in US hands. It seems it was mechanicsl failure. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- news.yahoo.com/s/ap/af_libya;_ylt=AnipZS875LYCreBbzYB3BhNH2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTJzdm41bW90BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTEwMzIyL2FmX2xpYnlhBGNjb2RlA21wX2VjXzhfMTAEY3BvcwMxBHBvcwMxBHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcmllcwRzbGsDbGlieWFyZWJlbHNz------------------------------------------------------------- Libya rebels struggle to regroup; US jet crashes . By RYAN LUCAS and MAGGIE MICHAEL, Associated Press Ryan Lucas And Maggie Michael, Associated Press – 1 hr 37 mins ago AJDABIYA, Libya – " Moammar Gadhafi's forces shelled rebels regrouping in the desert dunes outside a strategic eastern city on Tuesday, and his snipers and tanks roamed the streets of the last major opposition-held city in the west, signaling a prolonged battle ahead. An American fighter jet crashed, both crew ejecting safely. The U.S. Africa Command said both crewmembers were safe in American hands after what was believed to be a mechanical failure of the Air Force F-15 on Monday night. One was picked up by a rebel force and the other by a Marine Corps Osprey search and rescue aircraft. Disorganization among the rebels could hamper their attempts to exploit the air campaign by U.S. and European militaries, who themselves have struggled to articulate an endgame. Since the uprising began on Feb. 15, the opposition has been made up of disparate groups even as it took control of the entire east of the country. Regular citizens — residents of the "liberated" areas — formed an enthusiastic but undisciplined force that in the past weeks has charged ahead to fight Gadhafi forces, only to be beaten back by superior firepower. Regular army units that joined the rebellion have proven stronger and more organized, but only a few units have joined the battles while many have stayed behind as officers struggle to get together often antiquated, limited equipment and form a coordinated force" -------------------------------------------------
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 22, 2011 9:27:00 GMT -5
The question has hovered over the Libyan uprising from the moment the first tank commander defected to join his cousins protesting in the streets of Benghazi: Is the battle for Libya the clash of a brutal dictator against a democratic opposition, or is it fundamentally a tribal civil war?
I don't have a clue but Khadahfy may well survive after the bombing ceases by the Coalition forces and will we could see "boots on the ground" try to take him out?? And I doubt that we will then see a Democratic Libya but more likely a Muslim state run by Muslim fundamentalists who abide by Islamic laws for governments
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 22, 2011 9:49:09 GMT -5
The question has hovered over the Libyan uprising from the moment the first tank commander defected to join his cousins protesting in the streets of Benghazi: Is the battle for Libya the clash of a brutal dictator against a democratic opposition, or is it fundamentally a tribal civil war?
I don't have a clue but Khadahfy may well survive after the bombing ceases by the Coalition forces and will we could see "boots on the ground" try to take him out?? And I doubt that we will then see a Democratic Libya but more likely a Muslim state run by Muslim fundamentalists who abide by Islamic laws for governments[/quote] ---------------------------------------------------- There is a lot to the possibility of Gaddafi will be removed from power, not that he couldn't, but do the coalition have the ability to stay the course.
That Gaddafi's forces seem to be staying with him so far and his commanders are also not defecting or with drawing from the conflict is alarming to me.
I wonder if the coalition will attempt to go after his forces in the field , even though there then will be major casualties, granted on the enemy, but I think they were trying to do this as bloodless as possible.
The insurgents are just civilians with weapons. Granted the same type of opposition was done against the Soviets in Afghanistan, but there were terrain differences, a different type of individuals involved, armed conflict between the personnel was ingrained by centuries of conflict toward one another, and here it is not he case.
One report that while some Army units have joined the battle, and have done fairly well, many of those units are still being held back as the Army officers, and I am sure Non Commissioned are trying to form the units, get a handle on weapons available and put some order into the Resistance so they are better able to go against Gaddafi's forces.
To put special forces into the country to train and organize, while one of the prime missions of those forces, is not something done in a rush, it takes time, not sure we , coalition , have the time. IMHO.
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