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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 22, 2011 10:21:39 GMT -5
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 22, 2011 10:38:34 GMT -5
We'll have to see, won't we. Violation of....
Whats funny is, IMHO, if he and the allies had done nothing beyond the cutting off of funds, the condemnation, embargo's, what the reaction would be. If there was no interfering and it was allowed, his forces to over whelm Benghazi and the other towns and cities that were held by the insurgents and he, Gaddafi, went through with his statements of revenge and slaughter, his actual words , even in more detail, and to say, 'Oh those are just words, he will never carry out his threats ", to me if a person in power says he will do something, his history has been to have no problem ordering the killings and slaughtering of innocents, he will do it, what the out cry would be.
Then I get some amusement when I think the out cry, most likely from the same legislatures who are questioning his war power en action for his committing US forces and many of the posters here who are questioning his actions, what their reaction would be if the slaughter took place.
There was no way that Benghazi was going to hold off his forces with the air force, armor and that big equalizer on the battle field ARTILLERY. The slaughter, payback would have taken place, especially since so many of his forces are mercenaries, undisciplined, not Arab in make up, and killings, robberies and rape would have been put on those who fell into their hands, no question about it.
Some here I can't figure out. For intervention, if not to bloody, just let them work it out, slaughter of Innocent's, just the way it is. If so, criticism of the PONTUS, or no intervention to make sure that doesn't happen, still criticism of the PONTUS.
Sorry all, one can't have it both ways.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2011 11:36:18 GMT -5
Dez, you said it twice, so it must be something. What is PONTUS?
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 22, 2011 11:42:03 GMT -5
It's an error. We all make them.
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floridayankee
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If You Don't Stand Behind Our Troops, Feel Free to Stand in Front of Them.
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Post by floridayankee on Mar 22, 2011 12:34:13 GMT -5
Sorry all, one can't have it both ways. I assume you support going in to Iraq and unseating their murderous criminal leader Saddam Hussein as well? Ok, great. So who's next. Do we go take care of North Korea for the rampant poverty and starvation their communist leaders inflict on the people? How about Syria since their security forces have opened fire on protesters? While we're in Africa, we should also do something about the ineffective coalition government, the lawlessness, marauding pirates and human rights violations (ETA: In Somalia), should we not? Shouldn't we also do something about the violent response to protests in Iran? Are we going to take responsible for protecting all human rights and take on the role of the worlds police force or are we not? After all, one can't have it both ways.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2011 12:49:15 GMT -5
SO off topic-- guys remodeling my bathroom-- one does not speak a word of English. Young one interprets. Yeah................ I was NOT trying to diss Dez. I saw it twice in one post, and wondered if it is something I do not know about.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 22, 2011 12:58:03 GMT -5
Dez, you said it twice, so it must be something. What is PONTUS? POTUS I meant...so sorry...
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 22, 2011 13:42:35 GMT -5
Sorry all, one can't have it both ways. I assume you support going in to Iraq and unseating their murderous criminal leader Saddam Hussein as well? Ok, great. So who's next. Do we go take care of North Korea for the rampant poverty and starvation their communist leaders inflict on the people? How about Syria since their security forces have opened fire on protesters? While we're in Africa, we should also do something about the ineffective coalition government, the lawlessness, marauding pirates and human rights violations, should we not? Shouldn't we also do something about the violent response to protests in Iran? Are we going to take responsible for protecting all human rights and take on the role of the worlds police force or are we not? After all, one can't have it both ways. Actually you can have it both ways when it comes to nation dealings by countries , interactions of. There is no cookie cutter , in the book SOP when it comes to that. A nation has traditional allies, who on most things one can support on most things and will support you back , depend on and usually have your back even though on some topics there will be disagreements, usually because of different agendas pertaining to specific issues with each country. In those cases, the disagreements, publicly will be muted, similar to ones actions with best friends , life time types , where one over looks certain things that bother you where when dealing with strangers or others who one really don't care for, well you don't look away. If you lose them as friends, well you never had them in the first place. Iraq was a long time ago. I think I believed the story of the weapons of mass ydda, ydda, though I also thought we were rushing into something and was not happy that Bush and His Sec Of Defense brow beat the Generals into accepting less troops , commitment of forces, do it with less, on the cheap. When the Iraqi police, army was unilaterally , quickly dismissed and the people went nuts in the looting, I knew we were in trouble and immediately they should have ordered the reformation of the Army, under our over site and get them back into the street and deal with the reformation after wards. No planning or thought given to the "after the war dad what do you do. Possible this was what the generals knew they needed the extra troops for, the afterwas. if so, they were correct. Powell convinced me, you go to war , you go with all you have, not try to do it on the cheap.{ Ok, not Nucs but withj over whelming force, absoluly} All the places you mentioned , Syria, Iran, Africa, Yemen,{think your referring there in your Africa mention} we would not be effective and we should do what we are doing now, observing, sanctions, getting the word out, keeping our guard up and supporting those who might be threatened by them, here I am thinking Korea, giving them the support needed against the North, they threaten Japan too, and Israel against Iran, also , even though he is aangry with us now, if iran gets antsy in Behrain, Saudi Arabaia, we will be there ton help if needed.{Not sure how Behrain is going to work out , troublesome} Not easy to be a POTUS Got it right this time Krickett, thanks for th heads up. Me so bad.Lybia, large country, small population, great wealth so wouldn't need financial aid, possible some humanitarian help if we can get rid of Gaddafi quickly, possible take the cost out of the funds we have frozen , I like that idea, so because I like it, it won't happen, but CNN commentator had a good idea there. All countries who have expenses putting in the bills for payment giving rest back, so costs to coalition in these tough times are not incurred, and if they, the Libyans objected, tough. I believe you and so many here , if Gaddafi was allowed to have gone into Benghazi and slaughtered the insurgents would be screaming bloody murder against Obama, forgetting that there is a coalition here, even the Arab League, if that means anything , NATO, UN are all on board. Your telling me if that happened you would not be screaming for Obama's head, just accept the slaughter and say he had no choice , not our problem. If you say yes you would have accepted that, I have to say I don't believe you. Some say he was late. If so, then they are saying we, USA, should have done it with no mandate, no legality, no consensus, unilaterally on our own. There I feel we couldn't allow that to happen. How it played out was the way to do it. Now I feel, playing the role of the Commander in Chief,[what a rush] enough warnings of what to come have been given. If at all possible, find him , Gaddafi, sons who are involved, and go after him/them. No more nice guy, warnings to his commanders and the forces who support him. They are in the open, destroy them. Once they really start suffering , becoming casualties, hoping they will dessert him, possible do away with him, either one will be fine.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 22, 2011 13:43:36 GMT -5
SO off topic-- guys remodeling my bathroom-- one does not speak a word of English. Young one interprets. Yeah................ I was NOT trying to diss Dez. I saw it twice in one post, and wondered if it is something I do not know about. No dissing Krickett, appreciated the heads up.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 23, 2011 15:26:03 GMT -5
Latest from Lybia, it seems with the air cover complete, coalition forces, air , are now attacking Gaddafi's forces in the field, tanks, artillery, forcing Gaddafi's forces to retreat. A captured Qaddafi commander says his orders was to complete demolish, fatten in other words a city that is held by insurgents. Libyan insurgents are attempting to form a interim government, realize this is so important , to have some one/repreentatives, to represent the insurgents, speak to the coalition. It seems, from this report , a former Lybian official, who defected at the beginning of the uprising, has been chosen to be the temporary head of the insurgents. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110323/ap_on_re_af/af_libya------------------------------------------------------- .NATO ships patrol sea as Gadafi forces roll back By RYAN LUCAS and MAGGIE MICHAEL, Associated Press Ryan Lucas And Maggie Michael, Associated Press – 4 mins ago BENGHAZI, Libya – "NATO ships patrolled off Libya's coast Wednesday as airstrikes, missiles and energized rebels forced Moammar Gadhafi's tanks to roll back from two key western cities, including one that was the hometown of army officers who tried to overthrow him in 1993. Libya's opposition took haphazard steps to form a government in the east, as they and the U.S.-led force protecting them girded for prolonged and costly fighting. Despite disorganization among the rebels — and utter confusion over who would ultimately run the international operation — the airstrikes and missiles seemed to have their intended effect in Libya, at least for now. But the U.S. made clear that others would have to lead the way: Defense Secretary Robert Gates said the U.S. could relinquish control as soon as Saturday. He had no answer when asked about a possible stalemate if Gadhafi hunkers down, and the coalition lacks U.N. authorization to target him. Rear Adm. Gerard Hueber, a top U.S. officer in the campaign in Libya, said international forces were attacking government troops that have been storming population centers. On Wednesday evening, Libyan state television reported a "Crusader colonialist bombing targeting certain civil and military locations" in Tripoli's Tajoura district — scene of some of the heaviest past protests against Gadhafi." ------------------------------------------------------- [Click on link to read article]
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 24, 2011 7:53:45 GMT -5
Obama v. Obama Senator Barack Obama, December 20, 2007, “The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.” Washington D.C. (March 18, 2011) – Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) today released the following statement and letter to Congressional leaders after the President announced that the United States will support a United Nations-approved attack on Libya: “While the action is billed as protecting the civilians of Libya, a no-fly-zone begins with an attack on the air defenses of Libya and Qaddafi forces. It is an act of war. The president made statements which attempt to minimize U.S. action, but U.S. planes may drop U.S. bombs and U.S. missiles may be involved in striking another sovereign nation. War from the air is still war. “It is also worth noting that the President did not comment upon nor recognize that the Libyan government had declared a ceasefire in response to UNSC Resolution 1973. It was appropriate for the UN to speak about the situation. It was appropriate to establish an arms embargo and freeze Qaddafi’s considerable financial assets. But whether the U.S. takes military action is not for the UN alone to decide. There is a constitutional imperative in the United States with respect to deciding to commit our U.S. armed forces to war. “Congress should be called back into session immediately to decide whether or not to authorize the United States’ participation in a military strike. If it does not, the action of the President is contrary to U.S. Constitution. Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution clearly states that the United States Congress has the power to declare war. The President does not. That was the Founders’ intent. “I have sent a letter to Congressional leadership indicating that the national interest requires that Congress be called back quickly to Washington to exercise its Constitutional authority to determine whether our armed forces should participate in the UN mission. Both houses of Congress must weigh in. This is not for the President alone, or for a few high ranking Members of Congress to decide. “It is hard to imagine that Congress, during the current contentious debate over deficits and budget cutting, would agree to plunge America into still another war, especially since America will spend trillions in total for the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and incursions into Pakistan. “The last thing we need is to be embroiled in yet another intervention in another Muslim country. The American people have had enough. First it was Afghanistan, then Iraq. Then bombs began to fall in Pakistan, then Yemen, and soon it seems bombs could be falling in Libya. Our nation simply cannot afford another war, economically, diplomatically or spiritually,” said Kucinich. kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=229992
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 24, 2011 8:05:11 GMT -5
Rep. Mike Honda, D-San Jose and co-chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus Peace and Security Task Force, said Monday that Obama's action "sets a new precedent for war powers authorization and sends the message to the world that American democracy is deeply dysfunctional." Reps. Barbara Lee, D-Oakland, and Lynn Woolsey, D-Petaluma, issued a joint statement this week calling for an immediate end to the bombing in Libya, arguing that the administration's move "should have been debated and approved by Congress." While the two acknowledged that Libyan leader Moammar Khadafy has threatened "reckless, indiscriminate use of force on his own people," they said Obama's move represents "a dangerous path toward perpetual U.S. military engagement around the world." Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio went even further, saying Obama may be guilty of "an impeachable offense." Republicans, including House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, have also gone on the attack. Boehner charged that "before any further military commitments are made, (Obama) must do a better job of communicating to the American people and to Congress about our mission in Libya and how it will be achieved." Chronicle Washington staff writer Carolyn Lochhead contributed to this report. Read more: www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/03/23/MNRT1II30A.DTL#ixzz1HWQDPduDwww.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/03/24/MNRT1II30A.DTL
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Mar 24, 2011 8:05:55 GMT -5
I think it is nice republicans and the likes of Kucinich,Nadar,Moore,Farrahakkan,etc have come together finally. And to think it all happened overnight.-----GINGRICH: The standard [Obama] has fallen back to of humanitarian intervention could apply to Sudan, to North Korea, to Zimbabwe, to Syria this week, to Yemen, to Bahrain. … The Arab League wanted us to do something. The minute we did something, the Arab League began criticizing us doing it. I think that two wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is a lot. I think that the problems we have in Pakistan, Egypt — go around the region. We could get engaged by this standard in all sorts of places. I would not have intervened. I think there were a lot of other ways to affect Qaddafi. I think there are a lot of other allies in the region we could have worked with. I would not have used American and European forces
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 24, 2011 8:13:31 GMT -5
Moving posts to All Things Libya thread. Article is about democrats and Libya.
Tennesseer/Moderator
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 24, 2011 10:09:03 GMT -5
Tennesseer/Moderator OK as long as you did NOT move it to the UK Message Board...they may not have accepted it..
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 24, 2011 12:30:46 GMT -5
The latest Lybia up dates, attacks on Gaddafi forces contiinuing, 15 more missles fired last night, Gaddafi forces still entering cities in the West at night with troops , tanks. One Lybian jet destroyed as it was landing after breaking the no fly zone mandate by a French fighter firing rocket at it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/03/2011324145513428106.html--------------------------------------------------------- Africa French jet destroys Libyan plane Aircraft violating no-fly zone destroyed after landing as fighting rages between pro- and anti-Gaddafi forces. Last Modified: 24 Mar 2011 15:52 "A French fighter jet has attacked and destroyed a Libyan military plane shortly after it landed at Misurate air force base, a French armed forces spokesman said. The French warplane fired an air-to-ground missile at the Libyan jet after it breached the UN-imposed no-fly zone over Libya on Thursday. The AP news agency cited an official earlier on Thursday as saying the Libyan plane may have been landing when it was attacked by a French Rafael fighter jet. It comes as coalition forces continue to attack targets in the North African country in a bid to protect civilians from forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi, the country's leader. In a separate development, French fighter jets also struck an air base deep inside Libya, while NATO ships patrolled the coast to block arms and mercenaries entering the country. Coalition bombers also struck artillery, arms depots and parked helicopters on Thursday. However the coalition bombardment has failed to stop Gaddafi's forces from shelling opposition held towns" --------------------------------------------- [Click on link to read article]
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