Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 16, 2016 7:53:19 GMT -5
Hello… it’s me… I was wondering if after all these, er, months, you’d like to speak (and you better!) I don’t know at this point exactly what kind of advice I’m looking for, because the situation in which I find myself is personal and financial. But I’ve missed YM and I always value the feedback and advice I get on here. So, we’ll see where this goes. It’s going to be a long post, even by my standards – so be warned! Some of you may recall that DH and I were desperate to get out of our HCOLA. We wanted to move to the Pacific NW somewhere so we could be close to family and hopefully be in a position to buy a house. Well… we moved, anyway At the beginning of 2015, we moved to Portland. We figured we would settle there, or nearby, but then two things happened. We took a random road trip to central Oregon and fell absolutely head-over-heels in love with a smallish town called Bend, and I lost my job (wrote a thread about that). So as of late 2015/early 2016, I was job hunting in Bend. Money got tighter as the months passed, and I ended up taking Babybird out of school to stay home with her and save some money, since the job hunt was taking WAY longer than I thought it would. Happily, I finally landed one. I’ve been at my new company for six weeks now and I LOVE it. Babybird is settled into her new preschool, and DH is still working his job in Portland until our lease is up at the end of September. He’s planning to put in notice the first week in September and then join us in Bend. Babybird and I (and DH, soon) are living with my parents in their shiny new house (they moved to Bend in April or May of this year). It’s plenty big enough for the five of us, and my parents are being generous enough to allow us to stay for as long as we need to get on our feet. That’s the basic situation. Now the money stuff. To be frank, this year of transitions has turned our once-okay financial situation into a trainwreck. I had to take a BIG paycut at my first job in Portland (about 40%) and that really sucked. DH’s income is actually comparable to what it was in California, so that helped, but things were pretty tight and we stopped saving for retirement (or anything else). Then I got fired and… it went downhill from there, which is what led to taking Babybird out of school. I did get unemployment, but things were looking pretty grim there for awhile and it took me about six months to land this job in Bend (longer by far than a job search has ever taken me). Here’s the kicker – the salaries in Bend are really low. It’s the only thing I don’t like about this place. The house prices aren’t exactly in line with the low salaries, either. It’s an area that’s really taking off in popularity (for some very valid reasons) and there are a LOT of people coming in right now and buying houses, often in cash. So the house prices aren’t particularly low, but the salaries are – and while I do hope they catch up eventually, it’s putting us in a tough situation right now. I went from making $42/hour in California to $24/hour in Portland (both contract jobs) to making $17/hour here. I’m supposed to be bumped up to $20/hour with benefits in six weeks after my probationary period is over, which is good, but still seems painfully low to me. It’s not much more than I was getting on unemployment, and now we have the preschool expense again. (I love everything else about this job, and I was MISERABLE on unemployment – so don’t get the idea that I’m not thrilled to be working again, because I’m grateful every day that I am). But anyway, figure around $40k when all is said and done. I don’t expect DH to make any more than that (like I said, salaries are low and $40k is quite good for this area). If… he can get a job. This is where it gets crazy. I am barely making ends meet right now with both of us working (it’s difficult to keep up with the expenses of two households), but when he quits in September we’ll be losing all of our housing expenses along with his income… which should be good, right? Not so much. Without rent, I’ve calculated our expenses to be about $3,000/month, broken down approximately as follows: Insurance: $1,000 (it’s about $550 right now, but I’ll need to add DH and Babybird to my health insurance starting in September when DH loses our coverage and my company doesn’t cover them so that’ll be about $450 extra) Preschool: $700 (this is the only expense I’m actually pleased with – I think it’s really reasonable) Car payment: $500 (I think we have about $12k left on the loan, can’t remember the interest) Cell phones: $300 (this includes my parents’ lines and since that’s our only “contribution” to the household bills, it’s non-negotiable) Food/gas/etc.: $500 (this is pretty realistic based on our spending the past few months, might go down a bit once we don’t have to drive 6 hours to see each other every weekend) I think I’ll be bringing home around $2,000 (assuming my bump in September). So… that is a problem. If DH can get unemployment, it’ll be fine (and sometimes a spouse can if they have to relocate for a spouse’s job). But we won’t know that until he quits because they can’t work on his claim until he actually files it. If he doesn't, he's planning to get "any old" job to pick up the difference while he job hunts. I'm just worried that even when he finds one, we'll be barely treading water. I'm nervous that we won't be able to save enough to move for at least a year, if not more. I don't know if we can stomach living with my parents for that long (although it would coincide with Babybird starting kindergarten, which would help). More thoughts in my second post.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 16, 2016 7:59:26 GMT -5
I guess I am just starting to feel really hopeless about our financial situation. It took FOREVER for us to decide where we wanted to live, and we've finally found this great place... and now it's hard for me to picture ever being financially viable here. It's difficult for me to visualize being in a place where we can afford a decent house and retirement savings and living expenses all at the same time.
It doesn't help that this has been a very emotionally excruciating year... we've had two deaths in our family, and I've been struggling greatly with some personal issues. So the general outlook seems really bleak right now.
Also, 2017 is my "now or never" point for another kid. Most of you who have known me for awhile remember how much I struggle with this... it's never gotten any better. If anything, it's getting worse and worse. It's basically an impossible decision for me, and although I usually fall *ever so slightly* on the side of thinking another kid isn't right for us, I do not appreciate having my hand forced by money. If we had no significant money worries, I think I would go for it. But it's very, very hard for me to believe anything good could come of having another kid when money is already so tight.
Anyway. There's a lot here, I realize. And not all of it is financial. So as I said, I'm not sure what kind of advice I'm looking for, if any. I guess I felt like venting and getting some of this out of my head. I've missed you guys. As much as I love my new job, I do miss the days when posting time came easy!
Speaking of which, I won't be able to do lengthy updates during the day but I'll try to get on tonight to answer any questions or comments.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Aug 16, 2016 8:17:33 GMT -5
You are right in the thick of life. Keep taking steps forward. If you want to have another baby you should
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 16, 2016 8:24:42 GMT -5
You are right in the thick of life. Keep taking steps forward. If you want to have another baby you should This is a whole other post, really. I have a million reasons for wanting another kid and a million reasons for not wanting another kid. It's not one or the other; I literally go back and forth in my mind at least a dozen times a day. I can easily imagine regretting my decision either way. I never thought I'd be dealing with this conflict. I always planned to have two children and always wanted two children. Never in a million years could I have imagined feeling so conflicted about it once my first was here. It's hard to describe how much pain this causes me on a daily basis. That's why 2017 is now or never. It's been nearly four years and I can't keep living this way. I know this is a simple decision for a lot of people but it's killing me.
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Aug 16, 2016 8:26:30 GMT -5
I just googled Bend and it looks to be a lovely place. Do you think the area is growing in a way that will provide higher salaries. If not, then settling there may not be the best decision for your family in the long-term. To live somewhere beautiful but not to be able to support yourself isn't the best idea. Good luck to you!
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Aug 16, 2016 8:27:54 GMT -5
I would have regretted not having children. I cant imagine regretting having children
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2016 8:28:23 GMT -5
There's an old YM poster from Bend. I haven't heard from her in years, but I think Pat is still in contact (I don't know Pats new username, so I can't tag her). It seemed like it was kind of a touristy area that had a higher cost of living, but no real jobs?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 16, 2016 8:29:15 GMT -5
I just googled Bend and it looks to be a lovely place. Do you think the area is growing in a way that will provide higher salaries. If not, then settling there may not be the best decision for your family in the long-term. To live somewhere beautiful but not to be able to support yourself isn't the best idea. Good luck to you! It's a fast growing area so yes, I do see salaries catching up in the next few years. I can't even imagine moving again. It's not just that it's beautiful here, it's the perfect atmosphere in so many ways. Exactly the kind of place we've been trying to find for seven years. I really don't know where we would go if we couldn't make it work here. It's a scary thought. Especially now that my parents have settled here and even when we're not living with them, they're a huge part of our life.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 16, 2016 8:30:22 GMT -5
I would have regretted not having children. I cant imagine regretting having children I can, though. I can absolutely imagine regretting having another kid. Hence why this is a Very Big Decision for me.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Aug 16, 2016 8:31:22 GMT -5
Ok then maybe you aren't ready.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Aug 16, 2016 8:33:40 GMT -5
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 16, 2016 8:34:44 GMT -5
Ok then maybe you aren't ready. Hahaha... I'll never be ready. If I do this, it'll be in spite of my permanent state of nonreadiness. Not being ready doesn't stop me from wanting it like crazy, though. I don't know what the right answer is. You have no idea how badly I wish I did.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Aug 16, 2016 8:36:13 GMT -5
Sometimes you just jump.
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Sharon
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Post by Sharon on Aug 16, 2016 8:37:12 GMT -5
I too live in Oregon and was recently in the Bend area. In one of the shops I got involved with a discussion on housing costs with some random people. Bend was hard hit when the housing bubble burst a few years ago and from what I understand it is currently heading towards another big bubble. These people were saying you can't hardly rent a apartment that everything goes so quickly and for an outrageous price. For years Bend has had a problem with people moving there from California and buying houses with cash. While that area is starting to see more tech type jobs, facebook over in Prineville for example, it will probably always be tourist type place.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 16, 2016 8:43:06 GMT -5
Bend reminds me a lot of Jackson Hole. Portland is very expensive as well. Property taxes on small homes are huge because of the no sales tax. Gotta get the money they spend from somewhere! I would have never moved to Oregon to save money, especially to the two places you've lived in. That being said, family is important to some people and that makes it worth it. Are your parents willing to have your family stay there indefinitely especially with the hope of another grandchild? Can your husband stay working in Portland and come home on weekends if you do? Do they have room for another home or living space for you all if under one roof is too much? If you have another child can you daycare in your home? I wouldn't have him give up a job just like that because jobs that paid decently aren't easy to come by, anywhere but Oregon especially. Are you able to support everyone on just your salary and try to save his? Can he live somewhere cheaper in Portland like even rent a room in someone's house and keep his job?
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Aug 16, 2016 8:45:31 GMT -5
It's nice to see you again.
I think this is the problem with places that are LCOL they are rarely as cheap as people from HCOL think that they are (or at least that is my impression from someone in a LCOL area). Because housing prices are the only thing that contributes to cost of living, although it's major. And housing prices seems pretty reasonable and typical of a LCOL area (decent stock between the 250k-300k, but not tons of options).
Do you anticipate your salary going up over the next few years? What are your dh's job prospects like? The other thing to keep in mind that you are starting over, and as you are starting over it often means starting at the bottom again. Can you get insurance for your husband and baby bird on the healthcare exchange cheaper? Because that is what seems to be killing your budget.
I hope in a few years once you have two salaries and have time to get some promotions and salary increases that things will seem brighter. And why is 2017 the last year to have amother baby? I wouldn't push a timeline on yourself unless there is a specific medical reason to do so.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Aug 16, 2016 8:47:01 GMT -5
(Waving). Welcome back, Firebird!!! So good to hear from you, and, other than a few bumps in the road that we all experience, it sounds as if life is good for you. As for Bend, it IS beautiful, and like so many beautiful areas, the permanent residents will struggle to afford it -- sorry to say that your predicament is not unusual. So, you will need to adopt a different mindset. Is the real estate market at least cheaper than your former HCOLA? If so, then that is a definite plus. Do you know what the average income is in your area? Are you on the low end? If so, and I know you still have to get your ducks in a row, but you can absolutely start now searching for first-time buyer assistance programs. They DO exist in most areas and usually consist of a class and some financial counseling and then, frequently, special "affordable" mortgage programs and/or listings. Start exploring these programs and see if you can get a boost into the housing market through them when you are ready. In the meantime, accept that it will take you longer to get where you want to be, but that doesn't mean your goal is impossible. Remember how expensive housing was in your old area (you were renting near your parents, right?). While you were making nearly twice as much money, the housing costs made it a wash. Just keep looking ahead and stay focused and positive and align your expectations accordingly. A small house in a beautiful area with the right vibe beats out a big house in a spirit-crushing area hands-down. "You got this."
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2016 8:55:07 GMT -5
Ok then maybe you aren't ready. Hahaha... I'll never be ready. If I do this, it'll be in spite of my permanent state of nonreadiness. Not being ready doesn't stop me from wanting it like crazy, though. I don't know what the right answer is. You have no idea how badly I wish I did. You might just need to jump on this one.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 16, 2016 9:00:40 GMT -5
Have you talked to your parents? Do they have any Advice?
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janee
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Post by janee on Aug 16, 2016 9:01:36 GMT -5
Firebird--I've always admired your communication and writing styles and you seem like a very nice person. I know you want to be in Bend. Forget about the short-term (for now), but what type of salary will your DH get? You'll be making roughly $40K a year, and that won't cover your current costs. Depending on what he can make, can you afford to add in your own housing and all that goes with it? Will your insurance go back down again once he gets a job?
If you truly have to be there, then the only areas to reduce costs are cars and phones from what you've posted. Can you sell the car and use the equity to buy an older car? If you switched to prepaid type phones (using your smart phones) couldn't that free up some money? I know you say that's your only household contribution, but you need to be frank with your folks and show them a plan. Unless they are tight for money, let them pay their own or pay a prepaid plan. Can you do yard work, house work, etc. instead of a monetary contribution?
I would recommend you set up two budgets: one for right now and one for when DH joins you in Bend to see if it's doable. Put in things like retirement savings, etc so you can truly see if it's possible.
He should be applying for jobs now. Can you pick up some part time job for some extra cash? Babysitting maybe so you can be with Babybird? Can your DH pick up some extra work during the week while you're gone? Your shortfall isn't too bad. I would estimate your short-term budget to include 6 months for your DH to pick up a job.
I know things don't look too rosy right now, but try to look long term. Try to cut everything you can now.
Good luck with all your decisions.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 16, 2016 9:08:11 GMT -5
Quickly because I'm about to start work, but more later.
Yeah, I anticipate our salaries growing. I mean, they have nowhere to go but up. And DH is traditionally more employable than I am (in a big city we're about equal but in Portland he had two offers within a month and it took me four months to get one). So I'm hopeful/expectant that he'll find a job fairly quickly once he gets here.
If I knew for sure he could get unemployment, I wouldn't even be sweating this part. It would be plenty to cover the gap and it would be lovely for him to have some time off to search at a leisurely pace. He deserves it after a long tenure at a crappy job that did most of the breadwinning for 1.5 years.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Aug 16, 2016 9:09:43 GMT -5
I love Bend. I'd move there, but DH doesn't like snow. I know you want to live near your parents, but have you considered living in Sisters or La Pine? Shifting to the lifestyle that is the PNW is tricky. When I moved from San Jose to the PNW, I was only 12, but it was still a huge culture shock for me. I didn't have to deal with the finances. I would tell you that $700 is still high for pre-school unless it's truly full time. Have you looked at what the elementary schools and/or what the Bend-LaPine school district is offering regarding pre-school?
Try to remember that property taxes are incredibly low here, and there is no sales tax.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 16, 2016 9:12:31 GMT -5
Another idea. Have you thought about becoming caregivers to someone? The reason I'm asking is because my Uncles brother lives in Bend in a huge home but has a handicapped adult daughter. He and his wife are very old, over 80 and in poor health and their other two children have cut ties to them because of family issues. They don't want their daughter in a home. In exchange for living with and caring for an adult that acts like a child or an adult with issues that make it hard for them to live on their own, you might exchange your care for free housing. Just a thought.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 16, 2016 9:13:11 GMT -5
Oh, and he's been job hunting from Portland. Casually. But I know from experience that it's much easier to do that in Bend itself. This is very much a "who you know" situation and it's hard to network long distance.
Off to work for real now. More later. I look forward to reading everyone's responses!
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justme
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Post by justme on Aug 16, 2016 9:23:05 GMT -5
I know the cells are non negotiable, but have you checked the plans lately? We pay less than that for five phones with Verizon. They just put out a new plan that's 150 for four lines and 16g. I'd think the other companies are similar if you don't have Verizon? While it's not a huge amount of savings, it'd help a little.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 16, 2016 9:25:03 GMT -5
Then he needs to come to Bend on his days off and job hunt.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 16, 2016 9:30:54 GMT -5
Out of curiosity and feel free to tell me to stuff it but why us 2017 "now or never" for a second kid? DH and I waffle over a third. We've had the year and a half from hell which I've whined about extensively in the job thread. All we can do about it is keep moving forward. We are far from YM perfect but we're still a hell of a lot more fortunate than others. Perspective helps. I also remind myself if we had not done things right at first we'd be royally screwed now. Being smart in the past allows us to recover and have a future. Add to that our daycare royally jacked up it's prices. Three kids is impossible with both us working or staying home. Then add in my attitude about pregnancy and breastfeeding and all the post partum crap. DH and I ended up having a talk about it. He's actually fine having another child at 45. I'll be 35 and have no issues so there is no rush on my end. We lean towards two and done but just giving ourselves that window really takes the pressure off having to declare we are done. Unless there are major reasons concerning why it has to be 2017 or bust I suggest tabeling the discussion till you get other more immediate stresses under control. I'm.also going to gently suggest counseling. IRC you've been struggling with the motherhood thing for a long time and tend to over analyze to death. A professional can help you untangle and stay on target to a decision. As I typed this Abby dumped caramel corn all over the hotel room. Maybe we should have stopped at one.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2016 9:36:12 GMT -5
I know the cells are non negotiable, but have you checked the plans lately? We pay less than that for five phones with Verizon. They just put out a new plan that's 150 for four lines and 16g. I'd think the other companies are similar if you don't have Verizon? While it's not a huge amount of savings, it'd help a little. $300 is a LOT for 4 phones. There are so many prepaid options that are way less. Unlimited everything with Virgin Mobile is something like $35/line. We don't need unlimited data so go with Ting and pay about $50/month for two lines.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Aug 16, 2016 9:41:20 GMT -5
Welcome back I am going to go against the grain here and say you should NOT add another kid to the mix yet. Too many changes for you in the last year, and TBH your income is not enough to support a 4 people family with two working parents. If you really fret about money in real life, adding another expense (its just not daycare costs, its also the clothes, diapers, checkups, hospital visits etc.) would be a killer IMHO. But as DramaQ said, 2017 doesn't have to be a hard deadline for decision making..... How old is Babybird? Is there any possibility your DH does the SAH thing till Babybird is off to full time school? That $700 will give you a lot of breathing room. If your DH goes back to work full time once she is in KG, your daycare expense will be limited to before/after school, much lower than $700/month (I hope!)
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Aug 16, 2016 9:41:34 GMT -5
I know the cells are non negotiable, but have you checked the plans lately? We pay less than that for five phones with Verizon. They just put out a new plan that's 150 for four lines and 16g. I'd think the other companies are similar if you don't have Verizon? While it's not a huge amount of savings, it'd help a little. $300 is a LOT for 4 phones. There are so many prepaid options that are way less. Unlimited everything with Virgin Mobile is something like $35/line. We don't need unlimited data so go with Ting and pay about $50/month for two lines. I pay just under $50/month for a Verizon prepaid account. I have unlimited calls/texts and 3GB of data. No way should you be paying more than $60 for a phone plan.
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