Opti
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Post by Opti on Jan 13, 2016 11:35:17 GMT -5
Yes lotteries are bad investments. We all know that, so not sure what kind of discussion you want to have? But that's a debate you and perhaps someone wants to have. I don't think most of us want to join in round 347 of 'lotteries bad' by Virgil. Obviously some do, because all I'm doing is responding to criticisms of my arguments. Or we just hate bad arguments.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 13, 2016 12:04:13 GMT -5
Obviously some do, because all I'm doing is responding to criticisms of my arguments. Or we just hate bad arguments. Well fine. You can blame round 347 of Virgil vs. the Lottoheads on YMAM's hatred of bad arguments. But it's not my fault. You just need to lower your standards.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2016 12:27:24 GMT -5
Yes lotteries are bad investments. We all know that, so not sure what kind of discussion you want to have? But that's a debate you and perhaps someone wants to have. I don't think most of us want to join in round 347 of 'lotteries bad' by Virgil. Obviously some do, because all I'm doing is responding to criticisms of my arguments. Actually, you took my post and put a question mark where you wanted to and then answered that question.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 13, 2016 12:58:14 GMT -5
The good news I've found on Google is at least two of the big winners I researched have a very small internet footprint so it is possible to win and stay out of the news after the initial rush.
There's always more info on the cautionary tales of course-
Janite Lee, a St. Louis wig shop owner, won $18 million in 1993. Thegamble.jpg 52-year-old then went on a philanthropic binge that lost her everything. Besides the usual million-dollar house and cars, Lee reportedly donated more than $1 million to Washington University, where her namesake reading room commemorates the occasion. She reportedly donated $277,000 to Democratic political candidates, earning herself meals with Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and even the President of South Korea.
She didn’t stop there. $30,000 went to the family of a South Korean church pastor who passed away. The St. Louis Korean American Association received a house from her. Another Korean adoption-related association also benefited.
Lee’s philanthropy was expensive. But combined with her gambling habit—she lost $347,000 in a single year—bank loans, and credit card debt, it harkened disaster. She filed Chapter 7 bankruptcy in 2001.
In 1997, Home Depot stocker Billie Bob Harrell, Jr. won a $31 million Texas jackpot. To the former Pentecostal preacher, $1.24 million per year was a gift from heaven.
He bought a ranch, six homes for himself and family, and a bunch of new cars. After the initial glory subsided, however, Harrell found himself losing and loaning money at an alarming rate. Like many winners, he had trouble saying no to those who ask for his funds.
As a result, Harrell’s life became too stressful to handle. He divorced his wife. Less than two years after hitting paydirt, he committed suicide. “Winning the lottery is the worst thing that ever happened to me,” he is quoted as saying shortly before his suicide www.westtowninsurance.com/blog/would_winning_the_lottery_give_you_your_happily_ever_after/
How do you spend all that money? Like above only more.
Hire an accountant to approve any money handouts. Let him/her be the decider. Also let him/her be the bad guy.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jan 13, 2016 13:41:31 GMT -5
LOL! I don't buy lottery tickets but I'd sure be overjoyed to see one of our members win! That would be waaaay beyond cool!
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jan 13, 2016 14:37:44 GMT -5
LOL! I don't buy lottery tickets but I'd sure be overjoyed to see one of our members win! That would be waaaay beyond cool! I am holding out for another rollover so I can win $2,500,000.000 on Saturday night Then I will pm Virgil and ask what charity he favors for a two or three million dollar donation, and see if this gives him a dilemma, or he will agree they deserve the ill gotten gains My dilemma would be do I want to donate that much to another country's charity.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jan 13, 2016 15:22:23 GMT -5
In honor of Virgil's loquacious debate against the purchase of lottery tickets, I have just returned with $10 worth. This is the first time I have ever purchased Powerball tix. I have maybe bought 3-4 Wa. State scratchers over the years.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 13, 2016 15:26:23 GMT -5
Winning $2.5 billion like that is a curse. It would destroy your life.
First you'd have to deal with the surreal shock of winning, going through the process of getting the money. The process would be exhausting and overwhelming. The paranoia and anxiety would be unreal. It would be the worst culture shock you'd ever experienced.
Then every family member, friend, acquaintance, colleague you ever knew appealing to your sense of charity. Ten thousand charities and noble causes also asking for your help. The stress would be incredible. For years your life would revolve around managing your money. Saying 'yes', and going to formal presentations to glad-hand recipients and accept titular awards after filling out paperwork. Saying 'no', and dealing with the associated guilt and hostility. Stressing over how much to give away, how much to invest, where to invest it, whom to give it to, always being pushed and prodded by your conscience that you might not be doing the right thing.
Your friendships would dissolve. You could try to maintain them, and perhaps a few would survive, but they'd be strained. You aren't who you used to be. You aren't one of the gals who can come down to the mall to find some great deals. You aren't one of the guys who throws a football around in the back yard. You're the person with money. That's who you are. That's your identity. It defines and infects everything you do, even if you don't want it to. Few friendships will survive that. It's not your fault, but human nature is human nature.
You'd buy some nice things: a house, some cars, a boat. It would get old fast. Eventually it would be no more exciting than buying a pack of gum in a store. Just one more thing to do. You'll have obviated your need to work. There's no financial incentive to put in the hours in a job well done. There's no thrill or appreciation when somebody gives you a gift, and more resentment when you don't give extravagant gifts on the "appropriate" occasions. You don't have to sacrifice or save up. There's no real anticipation of anything. One car blurs into the next. One house blurs into the next. One flight blurs into the next. Your life is one big side trip you can never quit to go back to reality.
Best case scenario: you make it through the trauma (and I use the term appropriately) of winning and the stress of managing your money during the first few years, and, provided your family, some of your friendships, and your mental health have survived the shock, you're just as happy as you were before--no happier--having exchanged one set of worries and troubles for another. Maybe you'll find a new sense of purpose managing a foundation to spend your money, and that will keep you together. Maybe you'll just give up caring, waste away, and wake up despising who you've become, wondering where your life went.
A curse, if ever there was one.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2016 15:29:31 GMT -5
It might destroy your life I'll be ok. Thanks for the concern though
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jan 13, 2016 15:30:06 GMT -5
Winning $2.5 billion like that is a curse. It would destroy your life. First you'd have to deal with the surreal shock of winning, going through the process of getting the money. The process would be exhausting and overwhelming. The paranoia and anxiety would be unreal. It would be the worst culture shock you'd ever experienced. Then every family member, friend, acquaintance, colleague you ever knew appealing to your sense of charity. Ten thousand charities and noble causes also asking for your help. The stress would be incredible. For years your life would revolve around managing your money. Saying 'yes', and going to formal presentations to glad-hand recipients and accept titular awards after filling out paperwork. Saying 'no', and dealing with the associated guilt and hostility. Stressing over how much to give away, how much to invest, where to invest it, whom to give it to, always being pushed and prodded by your conscience that you might not be doing the right thing. Your friendships would dissolve. You could try to maintain them, and perhaps a few would survive, but they'd be strained. You aren't who you used to be. You aren't one of the gals who can come down to the mall to find some great deals. You aren't one of the guys who throws a football around in the back yard. You're the person with money. That's who you are. That's your identity. It defines and infects everything you do, even if you don't want it to. Few friendships will survive that. It's not your fault, but human nature is human nature. You'd buy some nice things: a house, some cars, a boat. It would get old fast. Eventually it would be no more exciting than buying a pack of gum in a store. Just one more thing to do. You'll have obviated your need to work. There's no financial incentive to put in the hours in a job well done. There's no thrill or appreciation when somebody gives you a gift, and more resentment when you don't give extravagant gifts on the "appropriate" occasions. You don't have to sacrifice or save up. There's no real anticipation of anything. One car blurs into the next. One house blurs into the next. One flight blurs into the next. Your life is one big side trip you can never quit to go back to reality. Best case scenario: you make it through the trauma (and I use the term appropriately) of winning and the stress of managing your money during the first few years, and, provided your family, some of your friendships, and your mental health have survived the shock, you're just as happy as you were before--no happier--having exchanged one set of worries and troubles for another. Maybe you'll find a new sense of purpose managing a foundation to spend your money, and that will give you a sense of purpose. Maybe you'll just give up caring, waste away, and wake up despising who you've become. A curse, if ever there was one. I tend to agree. Winning is a fantasy. And the reality of most fantasies aren't nearly as good as the fantasy of the fantasy.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2016 15:32:49 GMT -5
Virgil, you have inspired me to buy a second ticket and even inspired the numbers I picked for it.
I will gladly name a star after you and make a $500 donation in your honor to the Canadian charity of your choice if those numbers win the jackpot.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 13, 2016 15:36:46 GMT -5
It might destroy your life I'll be ok. Ipsa Dixit. (thanks to swamp for the Latin )
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jan 13, 2016 15:36:53 GMT -5
Interesting take, Virgil Showlion. I think a bit differently. I believe it's possible to win the lottery and remain anonymous. Not sure of that, but I think I read it somewhere. I really think a great deal of what might happen would depend on the person who actually won. Some people aren't big spenders and don't want to be. They're not materialistic. Some don't talk much, even to friends, about their personal lives and associated matters. It's certainly possible to give anonymously to charity.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 13, 2016 15:37:40 GMT -5
Virgil, you have inspired me to buy a second ticket and even inspired the numbers I picked for it. I will gladly name a star after you and make a $500 donation in your honor to the Canadian charity of your choice if those numbers win the jackpot. I'm atremble with anticipation, thank you.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 13, 2016 15:44:42 GMT -5
Interesting take, Virgil Showlion . I think a bit differently. I believe it's possible to win the lottery and remain anonymous. Not sure of that, but I think I read it somewhere. I really think a great deal of what might happen would depend on the person who actually won. Some people aren't big spenders and don't want to be. They're not materialistic. Some don't talk much, even to friends, about their personal lives and associated matters. It's certainly possible to give anonymously to charity. To be honest, giving every penny of the money away except what's needed for one incredible month-long vacation and a few nice things for the home is the best thing you could do for yourself. But my experience is that when people dream of winning the lottery, they don't envision giving everything away and living an ordinary life beyond that point. Even if that is their intention, the money is like "the one ring" in LotR. You say you'll give it up, but when you try to let go of it, your hand won't open.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jan 13, 2016 15:44:58 GMT -5
Interesting take, Virgil Showlion . I think a bit differently. I believe it's possible to win the lottery and remain anonymous. Not sure of that, but I think I read it somewhere. I really think a great deal of what might happen would depend on the person who actually won. Some people aren't big spenders and don't want to be. They're not materialistic. Some don't talk much, even to friends, about their personal lives and associated matters. It's certainly possible to give anonymously to charity. I think you have to be in the right state to remain anonymous. I agree it greatly depends on who won.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 13, 2016 15:46:25 GMT -5
I disagree with the bolded part. I have a close friend who is wealthy. I don't know how wealthy but I do know her prenup specified $10 m. It's her money (extremely successful private family business -think household named product). I had no idea when I first met her that she had money. I'm one of the few people she even comes close to talking about money with, and even then it's in vague terms (except for the prenup which she did tell me specifics and asked for advice (mostly about the relationship side of it) Maybe other people do treat her different because of it, but if they do it's not overt or apparent. She bitches about work and family, she tells funny stories about the dogs and husband, we have gone on vacations together to the same place the past 3 years, etc etc. In short she's not any different than you or I. She might be one of the friendships that survives. But not everybody is like you. Also, $10 million isn't $2.5 billion.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2016 15:47:31 GMT -5
It might destroy your life I'll be ok. Ipsa Dixit. (thanks to swamp for the Latin ) lol... kind of ironic, no?
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jan 13, 2016 15:52:43 GMT -5
Interesting take, Virgil Showlion . I think a bit differently. I believe it's possible to win the lottery and remain anonymous. Not sure of that, but I think I read it somewhere. I really think a great deal of what might happen would depend on the person who actually won. Some people aren't big spenders and don't want to be. They're not materialistic. Some don't talk much, even to friends, about their personal lives and associated matters. It's certainly possible to give anonymously to charity. To be honest, giving every penny of the money away except what's needed for one incredible month-long vacation and a few nice things for the home is the best thing you could do for yourself. But my experience is that when people dream of winning the lottery, they don't envision giving everything away and living an ordinary life beyond that point. Even if that is their intention, the money is like "the one ring" in LotR. You say you'll give it up, but when you try to let go of it, your hand won't open. The best to be done really depends on the person. Giving everything away wouldn't guarantee people knew or stopped asking.
I just envision living a life slightly better than when I was making my best income. From what I've read on former lottery winners, hoarding the money is NOT the common problem.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2016 15:54:21 GMT -5
Wait... Opt... you aren't suggesting that Virgil is making unsupported statements that rest only on his authority are you?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 13, 2016 16:04:59 GMT -5
I am too old to spend the money foolishly. I am pretty comfortable with my being and surroundings now. I will admit I would have to move. Not because I want something bigger and better but because of the notoriety. My new home would have to have quite a few bell and whistle security measures and be a bit bigger to house an additional person or two just for security reasons.
My landline would get disconnected immediately. I would also get rid of my current cell phone too. As Tennessee does not allow winners to remain anonymous, I would have to stand in front of friggin cameras holding a giant check. As the cameras were rolling, I would be mouthing 'No.'. And then I would disappear for several years with the only thing to be purchased a new home out of the area.
I would also have a dedicated accountant and an attorney (not related) along with a small board of directors (including me at the head) to approve money and charity grant requests. I would let the accountant and BoD be the ones who respond to the requests. I would have no contact with any of the requesters, including sudden 'good' friends and newly discovered relatives.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Jan 13, 2016 17:05:54 GMT -5
If I win I plan to build a snow leopard reserve of mammoth proportions so they can multiply tenfold. I figure at some point I will feel guilty about the snow leopards being held in captivity and set them free. Crap that means I need to drive 50 miles to get another $2.00 ticket.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 13, 2016 17:06:22 GMT -5
To be honest, giving every penny of the money away except what's needed for one incredible month-long vacation and a few nice things for the home is the best thing you could do for yourself. But my experience is that when people dream of winning the lottery, they don't envision giving everything away and living an ordinary life beyond that point. Even if that is their intention, the money is like "the one ring" in LotR. You say you'll give it up, but when you try to let go of it, your hand won't open. The best to be done really depends on the person. Giving everything away wouldn't guarantee people knew or stopped asking.
I just envision living a life slightly better than when I was making my best income. From what I've read on former lottery winners, hoarding the money is NOT the common problem.
"Good luck" is all I can say. You may well avoid all the pitfalls, but even if that's the case, you won't end up any happier than you are now. The science of happiness has been accumulating for decades now. One of the major findings is that individuals have a built-in 'equilibrium' for happiness. If emotions are perturbed away from that equilibrium due to some factor--positive or negative--they always eventually revert to the equilibrium. Different people have different equilibria. As it turns out, equilibria can be changed, but only modestly, and only through rigorous conditioning of one's attitude (mainly towards stress and challenges). Counterintutively, the happiness of a mentally well individual isn't sustainably affected by wealth or free time. We may think it is, and changes in these factors play a significant role in our short-term highs and lows, but our happiness always reverts to the mean. In other words, even assuming you can avoid all the pitfalls of winning the lottery, it won't make you happier for any appreciable amount of time. There are other ways, mainly dealing with attitude adjustment, that will. Trauma can also change one's equilibrium, but we've already discussed that. So... to summarize my arguments in this thread: - playing the lottery is a terrible investment
- playing the lottery for "fun" means you don't have a rational understanding of your odds of winning; there are also ways of getting better highs for the same amount of money
- Christians shouldn't play the lottery
- in the fantastically unlikely event that you win the lottery, you need to avoid numerous pitfalls
- assuming you win the lottery and avoid the pitfalls, the money won't make you happier for any appreciable amount of time
- playing the lottery is your prerogative; nobody is trying to stop you; but it is a waste of money
I rest my case.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 13, 2016 17:08:02 GMT -5
If I win I plan to build a snow leopard reserve of mammoth proportions so they can multiply tenfold. I figure at some point I will feel guilty about the snow leopards being held in captivity and set them free. Crap that means I need to drive 50 miles to get another $2.00 ticket. You would be unleashing a plague of apocalyptic proportions on mankind. Your cruelty chills me to the bone.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jan 13, 2016 17:20:20 GMT -5
Winning $2.5 billion like that is a curse. It would destroy your life. First you'd have to deal with the surreal shock of winning, going through the process of getting the money. The process would be exhausting and overwhelming. The paranoia and anxiety would be unreal. It would be the worst culture shock you'd ever experienced. Then every family member, friend, acquaintance, colleague you ever knew appealing to your sense of charity. Ten thousand charities and noble causes also asking for your help. The stress would be incredible. For years your life would revolve around managing your money. Saying 'yes', and going to formal presentations to glad-hand recipients and accept titular awards after filling out paperwork. Saying 'no', and dealing with the associated guilt and hostility. Stressing over how much to give away, how much to invest, where to invest it, whom to give it to, always being pushed and prodded by your conscience that you might not be doing the right thing. Your friendships would dissolve. You could try to maintain them, and perhaps a few would survive, but they'd be strained. You aren't who you used to be. You aren't one of the gals who can come down to the mall to find some great deals. You aren't one of the guys who throws a football around in the back yard. You're the person with money. That's who you are. That's your identity. It defines and infects everything you do, even if you don't want it to. Few friendships will survive that. It's not your fault, but human nature is human nature. You'd buy some nice things: a house, some cars, a boat. It would get old fast. Eventually it would be no more exciting than buying a pack of gum in a store. Just one more thing to do. You'll have obviated your need to work. There's no financial incentive to put in the hours in a job well done. There's no thrill or appreciation when somebody gives you a gift, and more resentment when you don't give extravagant gifts on the "appropriate" occasions. You don't have to sacrifice or save up. There's no real anticipation of anything. One car blurs into the next. One house blurs into the next. One flight blurs into the next. Your life is one big side trip you can never quit to go back to reality. Best case scenario: you make it through the trauma (and I use the term appropriately) of winning and the stress of managing your money during the first few years, and, provided your family, some of your friendships, and your mental health have survived the shock, you're just as happy as you were before--no happier--having exchanged one set of worries and troubles for another. Maybe you'll find a new sense of purpose managing a foundation to spend your money, and that will keep you together. Maybe you'll just give up caring, waste away, and wake up despising who you've become, wondering where your life went. A curse, if ever there was one. In anticipation of a roll over, I am anticipating the relatives already. After tonight, when it rolls I start some face book posts with all relatives and in-laws and anticipate being banned and disowned by them, by Thursday pm. Most would be easy. I just start talking Trump Trump Trump, or darn that President Obama. Relatives, other than children are highly over rated. Multiple throw away cellphones. Once you get one money request. Garbage can it goes and on to the next phone. Friends are highly over rated when I have this board to work with! Just think of the threads the libs would put out on me if I won. I would even start a thread where I am donating to multiple Christian churches.......It would warm my heart tremendously and throw them into overload. I would literally have the last laugh. I could also promote and donate to some rightwing think tanks. Plan to buy a mansion on a barrier island on the gulf side of Florida, a multi-million dollar dig in the Colorado or Wyoming Rockies for summer, and a ranch for logging, cattle, and mining in Canada of say 40,000 acres or so. If Florida does not work out well, Virgin Islands. No boat. A ship. With captain and crew maintaining it. Nothing but rum, tequila, bourbon, and some quality beers on hand to pass the time. Cars? Who knows.......gotta have a few vehicles scattered on all the properties. Half of the money would go into some stock from a company that is only worth six billion market cap or less, so I would have some input into the management of it. My donation goal right now centers on supporting multiple homeless shelters around my home state of Indiana right now. Have to do some major research on this. Do not want it going down a rabbit hole, and not do any good. Since I am wintering in Florida, I have discovered there is a big homeless population here too, but at least they do not get super cold like back home. Might concentrate on food pantries here. Both would require some participation of recipients in education, or mental health clinics, where necessary. Since I am past retirement, I no longer worry about decades of money management. Have to settle for a couple of five year plans and hope I am around for a third one. As far as the kids go, they are grown. They can hang around during vacations and holidays, but they only will get whatever is left over. I will not support them so they do not forget the value of a billion dollars. And do not forget, you have to make the choice of which charity I send two million dollars to. That is worth a lot to me alone! This is a curse I think I might handle and welling to chance it. I know this is a short answer to your concerns, but as you can see, I did put two minutes together to give you a response.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2016 17:31:05 GMT -5
"Counterintutively, the happiness of a mentally well individual isn't sustainably affected by wealth or free time. "
So why do you think this will ruin everyone's life?
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jan 13, 2016 17:41:50 GMT -5
It has, and it says *I* will be happier. I'll be extremely happy to afford and pay for my needed car repairs. YMID (Your mileage is different), try a little harder to remember *I* and others are not you.
Thanks much!
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jan 13, 2016 17:44:05 GMT -5
"Counterintutively, the happiness of a mentally well individual isn't sustainably affected by wealth or free time. " So why do you think this will ruin everyone's life? Because we would have spent money on lottery tickets, duh. This of course can not be counteracted by giving money to the church or having a pet snow leopard.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jan 13, 2016 17:45:27 GMT -5
Oh, heck let's be honest here. It would be a terrible mental burden. That is the truth. Some of us are welling to carry the weight of the burden. How successful we will be is the question.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 13, 2016 17:49:15 GMT -5
"Counterintutively, the happiness of a mentally well individual isn't sustainably affected by wealth or free time. " So why do you think this will ruin everyone's life? "Trauma can also change one's equilibrium, but we've already discussed that." Asked and answered. Also, I didn't say that the lottery destroying your life would necessarily make you permanently less happy. It works like anything else. You can recover from it.
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