milee
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Post by milee on Dec 15, 2015 9:43:33 GMT -5
Wait, you mean training the teenage girls that a man is in charge of important financial decisions, a man needs to step in and keep a woman from "making a poor decision", some male rescuer will dig her out of any problems she has and that she needs to play games with guys to get toys and trinkets is not a healthy thing? Those girls need to learn early on that it's fine for a guy to pressure them into doing things they may not like or want - because he really knows best. Sexist, are we? GF asked for his advice. He gave it to her and kept her from committing an uncomfortable % of her discretionary income on a "want". I'm incredibly fiscally conservative. There is no doubt that my financial views correspond very closely to beergut's and yours. If the issue was whose financial choices are wiser, I side 100% with beergut and with you.
However, based on the series of posts from beergut, the main issue here isn't if GF is making a dumb financial move - because it's obvious most people on a Money board will agree that she is. And that she will make more dumb financial moves and that she is a first class Financial Dummy. The issue is that instead of forging a healthy relationship and solving this issue with her as a couple, beergut continually engages in controlling and manipulative behavior to get his way. He believes it's fine to control, pressure and manipulate her because he is "right".
Just because the GF asked for his advice and just because she is a Financial Dummy does not mean that he's not a controlling sexist jerk or that it's acceptable for him to act in ways that are disrespectful to her or other posters. He can work with her to solve problems as a couple, he can distance himself financially, he can separate himself financially, he can do a number of things. He does not get a pass to manipulate, control and belittle her because she is making the "wrong" choice.
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musicjenny
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Post by musicjenny on Dec 15, 2015 9:44:37 GMT -5
I'm a buy cheap and run it into the ground person. My car is a '93 with 300k that I paid $800 for and it won't die. BF was a buy new every few years from the time he got his first job. When I met him he had been rolling over what he owed for a few cars and owed more than what his truck was worth. After we were together awhile my cheapness rubbed off on him enough that he came up with a plan to lease and roll the debt in and he would be completely paid off in three years. He works at a dealership (not selling) and had to drive a new four door Accord that looked like a grandma car for three years but he got out from under everything and had no payment for the first time in his driving life. He always finds deals and can buy trade ins for $100 over what the dealership pays. So now he's got a paid for beater Civic (which is super nice to me since I'm used to my 22 year old car!) and bought a nicer circa 2000 Civic for about 5k. He does make payments on it but they're way less than his new cars or lease! He was looking at new cars again before he bought it but I pushed for something reasonable. If he ever wants new again I'm fine with him leasing because of his buy new every two years problem He's also very mechanically inclined and can fix beaters or help me find one that will run for a good long time without a huge amount of work. The hardest part is keeping him from buying all these great deals that they get on trade ins. He did buy a Civic hybrid for $600, kept it six months and then flipped it. It was a super nice car with 200k and really reliable.
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debthaven
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Post by debthaven on Dec 15, 2015 9:47:23 GMT -5
I'm glad this was resolved ... until the next time.
Because nothing has fundamentally changed, has it? It's not like she had an epiphany, she just gave in to you (perhaps because she was scared that if she didn't, the Bank of Beergut would close up shop). And she'll probably continue making snarky comments every time she sees the car she really wanted.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Dec 15, 2015 10:20:12 GMT -5
Back to the price--checking out CL, I found a 2013 touring edition with heated leather seats and 29k miles for $24,550. Theres a 2011 with 34,000 (also leather seats, I think?) for $9,800.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Dec 15, 2015 10:25:20 GMT -5
What you are doing, and modeling to those girls is unhealthy. I've been there and have the t-shirt. Making sure kids have food is not the hallmark of a good parent/parental figure. Lots of shitty parents out there manage to emotionally/mentally screw up kids and still put food on the table and make sure their kids have a roof over their head and clothes to wear. If you really loved those girls, you'd figure out to have an emotionally healthy relationship with your girlfriend. Wait, you mean training the teenage girls that a man is in charge of important financial decisions, a man needs to step in and keep a woman from "making a poor decision", some male rescuer will dig her out of any problems she has and that she needs to play games with guys to get toys and trinkets is not a healthy thing? Those girls need to learn early on that it's fine for a guy to pressure them into doing things they may not like or want - because he really knows best.
And it's so nice that this particular white knight knows exactly how to handle the ladies. Replying to female criticism with "bitch, please" and a picture that appears to show a raised fist poised to put the bitch in her place shows real class. Swoon.
And this is why I wish Milee was my sister, or my neighbor. God, that's funny. And has a whole lotta truth to it. This line by the OP: << Bottom line is that I'm not going to let the kids starve, or go without necessities because mom made a poor decision buying a car. Much easier to try to keep her from making a poor decision that digs her hole deeper in the first place.>>tells me what I need to know. Beergut, it's not your place to tell her how and when to stop digging. You two are not married. Those girls are not the product of your relationship. Assuming they have a dad somewhere, it should be his problem to help support them. If he isn't around (and some info about him may have existed in another thread that I am unaware of) your GF still has options. If the dad is deceased, they should get survivor SS benefits. If he's a deadbeat, she should be gunning for child support. If you continuously prop GF up in the name of "saving" the kids, all you are doing is building a house of cards for them. They won't be able to live in it when something happens to you, and they won't be able to sustain themselves without help later in life. Your GF cannot ever learn to put down the damned shovel if you keep handing it back to her, smile on your face and pat on her head, telling her it's all going to be OK. You're teaching these women the worst lesson in life a woman can learn: to lean on a man for support, rather than learn from a man how to support oneself. There's nothing wrong with learning from the man in your life how to get onto a good financial track (I certainly did, thanks to my DH), but it has to work both ways. She has to want to absorb the info, and you have to want to let her fail in order to get the message across.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Dec 15, 2015 10:36:21 GMT -5
True. But he knows this needs to be worked on with her. He instead ignores it and tries to control the situation and her instead. Then comes here with a bragplaint about how he has to keep bailing her out. It's past old and at this point, I gotta wonder why either one keeps the other around if this is the way that they deal with issues. Ignores it? Tries to control the situation and her? Bragplaint? I can assure you, I would much rather be writing about how I'm with someone who has learned from past financial mistakes and is building their wealth while living below their means instead of trying to figure out how to keep someone from continually attempting Russian roulette with their finances. Wow. Then why don't you find someone like that. Either that or just accept it and move on and did you even read the post you wrote before this one? You are all about control. At least own it. I think that you may actually like this. There could be no other way to explain why you continue to do what you're doing without addressing the issues.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Dec 15, 2015 10:37:54 GMT -5
I agree with her that what kind of car she gets is none of your concern. If you aren't going to be paying for it in any way, you get no input. You are not her husband nor are you the child's father. If you are going to pay for it, you decide. It's that simple. Normally, I would completely agree with you, but she has asked for my opinion. When I tried to completely stay out of the situation and let her handle it on her own (buying the replacement car for the 17 yr old), she ended up buying a lemon in a bad deal. The problem with the "if you're not going to be paying for it, you get no input" is that even if I don't offer a single dollar toward the purchase of this car, I'm going to be paying for it somewhere else. If she makes a bad financial decision and ends up short because of that, I'm going to be picking up the slack. Bottom line is that I'm not going to let the kids starve, or go without necessities because mom made a poor decision buying a car. Much easier to try to keep her from making a poor decision that digs her hole deeper in the first place. Here's the post I'm referring to in case there was any confusion. If you are content to play Captain Saveaho, go right ahead. But own it and quit complaining.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Dec 15, 2015 10:43:04 GMT -5
Amen. And I know a guy who did this with two ex-wives, and is still at it with #3. I call it the White Knight Syndrome. He has a habit of finding women who need rescuing of some kind, whether it be from bad drugs, bad boyfriends/XHs or bad finances, and he just swoops in. Thing is, he's an extremely nice guy, Master's degree, excellent job, highly intelligent, has owned his own home for years. Damsels in distress just seem to be the thing that puts starch in the ol' Superman cape for him. His first two wives stayed with him until things got better, then divorced him and moved on to their new boyfriends (both women cheated on him). Oh, now that one is going to the Cheesipedia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Dec 15, 2015 10:45:06 GMT -5
A 2012 at this time of year is more like 3-4 years old. That said, I could see if it's high options versus low options. But a flat basic model 2015 (end year clearance if you can get one) to a 2013 the same (2014 if all new left are 2016) I didn't think the difference would be so great. And if it was I might wonder about the car I was getting... Eta: I see! It was 2014 vs 2012... Don't know why I was thinking new and two years older? You could be right about model change adding to difference. Hey, be careful not to question the negotiation skills of The Man. It was his incredible skill that got that awesome deal, not trifling things like change in model years or option depreciation.
Keep up this doubting and he'll have to put you in your place. Silly bitch.
Play nice or you won't get a jar of homemade salad dressing for Valentimes Day.
POTD!
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Dec 15, 2015 10:49:48 GMT -5
She had told me before that she was a 'people pleaser', but I didn't realize how much until today. On the 2014 car, she had been talking most of Saturday with a salesman who had been able to put together a deal for her. She felt they had developed something of a relationship and was worried about telling him we had taken another deal. She told me to call and tell him, so I did. He didn't answer, so I called back and left a message with his receptionist. He called me back, told me he felt blindsided, didn't know we were looking around, told me he worked his ass off to set this up, etc. GF could only hear my side of the conversation, but genuinely felt terrible about the whole thing. She told me after I hung up that she 'felt shitty' about doing that to him. This is a guy who was going to royally screw her over, and she felt bad about telling him no!! But that is part of her personality, she felt this guy was nice to her and didn't want to make him unhappy. Your GF needs to hang out with me for like ... 5 minutes. I promise to rub off on her in a good way.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Dec 15, 2015 11:04:40 GMT -5
I posted a "bitch, please" meme too - am I also a sexist disrespectful pig? Okay, lemme rephrase that.... am I sexist?
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Dec 15, 2015 11:06:26 GMT -5
She had told me before that she was a 'people pleaser', but I didn't realize how much until today. On the 2014 car, she had been talking most of Saturday with a salesman who had been able to put together a deal for her. She felt they had developed something of a relationship and was worried about telling him we had taken another deal. She told me to call and tell him, so I did. He didn't answer, so I called back and left a message with his receptionist. He called me back, told me he felt blindsided, didn't know we were looking around, told me he worked his ass off to set this up, etc. GF could only hear my side of the conversation, but genuinely felt terrible about the whole thing. She told me after I hung up that she 'felt shitty' about doing that to him. This is a guy who was going to royally screw her over, and she felt bad about telling him no!! But that is part of her personality, she felt this guy was nice to her and didn't want to make him unhappy. Your GF needs to hang out with me for like ... 5 minutes. I promise to rub off on her in a good way. That sounds so hot.
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milee
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Post by milee on Dec 15, 2015 11:07:41 GMT -5
I posted a "bitch, please" meme too - am I also a sexist disrespectful pig? Did you address it at a particular female poster who was disagreeing with you or was it a general meme posted to be funny? Was it used in the context of a discussion where you were already showing some tendencies to control, pressure and manipulate a woman and then were responding to criticism from another woman? Do most of your posts use paternalistic terms to describe how you have to rescue a woman or force her into better choices because you just know better?
This isn't about one meme or post, it's about a pattern.
Just like GF isn't a "financial dummy" because she likes new cars, she's one because of a series of bad financial choices. OP isn't a sexist pig because someone is being offended at a "joke" he made, he's one because it wasn't a joke, was directed at someone and is only a single piece of a very telling and consistent pattern.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Dec 15, 2015 11:13:45 GMT -5
I posted a "bitch, please" meme too - am I also a sexist disrespectful pig? Okay, lemme rephrase that.... am I sexist? You was in the Favorite Memes thread and wasn't directed at anyone. So no, we still love you.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Dec 15, 2015 11:15:45 GMT -5
Your GF needs to hang out with me for like ... 5 minutes. I promise to rub off on her in a good way. That sounds so hot. Oh lord. We should have known.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2015 11:18:25 GMT -5
This isn't about one meme or post, it's about a pattern. Just like GF isn't a "financial dummy" because she likes new cars, she's one because of a series of bad financial choices. OP isn't a sexist pig because someone is being offended at a "joke" he made, he's one because it wasn't a joke, was directed at someone and is only a single piece of a very telling and consistent pattern. OK, I haven't read all the OP's earlier posts on the GF (just this thread) and yes, I can understand that a pattern of rescuing people and "needing to be needed" can be unhealthy. Been there, done that. If DH departs this earth before me (he's 15 years older) and I get into a relationship with a guy and find out he's a financial train wreck, I plan to run in the opposite direction, even if he looks like George Clooney.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Dec 15, 2015 11:19:36 GMT -5
Dude, please.
She's clearly good at pleasing you, or she wouldn't be part of your life. She and the salesman had developed "something of a relationship and was worried" translates to "I don't wanna deal with it, YOU do it, Daddy Beergut! Rescue mmmmmeeeeeeeee!"
Your GF needs a hard lesson in sales tactics 101. All salespeople are nice, that's why they do the job and get paid money. Really nice ones tend to get paid more money. Really nice ones who are experts in the art of the Royal Screw-Over get paid the most money. I'm not being mean; it's just how the system works. It's why I take my DH car-shopping with me - aside from the fact he's hugely intelligent about anything on wheels, he's the hardest sell on the planet. Nothing about car sales or salespeople gets through to him. His stare will unravel a tie and burn holes in a big block. THAT'S what your GF needs - she needs to learn to stare down life hard and not whine and wheedle when she cannot afford what she wants. And you need to quit using her kids as pawns in this. I realize you care for them and don't question that at all. But you're not helping them grow into independent financial thinkers.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Dec 15, 2015 11:36:36 GMT -5
I posted a "bitch, please" meme too - am I also a sexist disrespectful pig? Did you address it at a particular female poster who was disagreeing with you or was it a general meme posted to be funny? Was it used in the context of a discussion where you were already showing some tendencies to control, pressure and manipulate a woman and then were responding to criticism from another woman? Do most of your posts use paternalistic terms to describe how you have to rescue a woman or force her into better choices because you just know better?
I was trying to inject a little humor. Nope, Andi - I posted it here in response to Archie's post about people here who had bad parents. My point was that we are all fucked.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 15, 2015 11:56:02 GMT -5
Normally, I would completely agree with you, but she has asked for my opinion. When I tried to completely stay out of the situation and let her handle it on her own (buying the replacement car for the 17 yr old), she ended up buying a lemon in a bad deal. The problem with the "if you're not going to be paying for it, you get no input" is that even if I don't offer a single dollar toward the purchase of this car, I'm going to be paying for it somewhere else. If she makes a bad financial decision and ends up short because of that, I'm going to be picking up the slack. Bottom line is that I'm not going to let the kids starve, or go without necessities because mom made a poor decision buying a car. Much easier to try to keep her from making a poor decision that digs her hole deeper in the first place. Here's the post I'm referring to in case there was any confusion. If you are content to play Captain Saveaho, go right ahead. But own it and quit complaining. I agree he might like playing the savior. Is it necessary to imply she's a ho just because of finances?
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Dec 15, 2015 11:56:28 GMT -5
Didn't read the thread yet....
To answer OP - yes! My husband wants to keep ALL THE CARS. Including his '95 chevy and my '97 Nissan.
I am no as sentimental and am willing to let them go.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Dec 15, 2015 12:00:58 GMT -5
Here's the post I'm referring to in case there was any confusion. If you are content to play Captain Saveaho, go right ahead. But own it and quit complaining. I agree he might like playing the savior. Is it necessary to imply she's a ho just because of finances? Haven't you ever heard that expression? I didn't think it implied anything about her. Just a common expression.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 15, 2015 12:09:13 GMT -5
I agree he might like playing the savior. Is it necessary to imply she's a ho just because of finances? Haven't you ever heard that expression? I didn't think it implied anything about her. Just a common expression. Haven't heard that expression. I hope you are right.
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milee
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Post by milee on Dec 15, 2015 12:35:03 GMT -5
If DH departs this earth before me (he's 15 years older) and I get into a relationship with a guy and find out he's a financial train wreck, I plan to run in the opposite direction, even if he looks like George Clooney. See, I'm thinking just the opposite. I'm pretty good at making my own money and suspect I'll have enough to be comfy in my old age. While I wouldn't do something stupid like marry him, comingle finances or even discuss money with him, I'd be perfectly fine with having a relationship with a George Clooney lookalike. If he's a Financial Dummy, I can live with that.
I will not lecture him about his stupid spending or try to pressure him into getting an older used car, I will just be there to comfort him when he realizes the folly of his ways.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Dec 15, 2015 13:29:27 GMT -5
If DH departs this earth before me (he's 15 years older) and I get into a relationship with a guy and find out he's a financial train wreck, I plan to run in the opposite direction, even if he looks like George Clooney. See, I'm thinking just the opposite. I'm pretty good at making my own money and suspect I'll have enough to be comfy in my old age. While I wouldn't do something stupid like marry him, comingle finances or even discuss money with him, I'd be perfectly fine with having a relationship with a George Clooney lookalike. If he's a Financial Dummy, I can live with that.
I will not lecture him about his stupid spending or try to pressure him into getting an older used car, I will just be there to comfort him when he realizes the folly of his ways.
The old pat him on the head and hand him back the shovel routine, just so you can watch him bend over and...dig. Heck, I'd do the same thing.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Dec 15, 2015 13:31:21 GMT -5
If DH departs this earth before me (he's 15 years older) and I get into a relationship with a guy and find out he's a financial train wreck, I plan to run in the opposite direction, even if he looks like George Clooney. See, I'm thinking just the opposite. I'm pretty good at making my own money and suspect I'll have enough to be comfy in my old age. While I wouldn't do something stupid like marry him, comingle finances or even discuss money with him, I'd be perfectly fine with having a relationship with a George Clooney lookalike. If he's a Financial Dummy, I can live with that.
I will not lecture him about his stupid spending or try to pressure him into getting an older used car, I will just be there to comfort him when he realizes the folly of his ways.
Heck, if he could cook, too, I'd probably just buy him that BMW he's got his eye on. (I'd keep it in my name, though).
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justme
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Post by justme on Dec 15, 2015 14:22:57 GMT -5
<cue Beyonce>
Everything you own in the box to the left In the closet that's my stuff Yes if I bought it please don't touch And keep talking that mess that's fine But could you walk and talk at the same time And it's my name that's on Jag So come move your bags, let me call you a cab
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beergut
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Post by beergut on Dec 15, 2015 20:14:07 GMT -5
The only reason a car salesweasel would need to "work his ass off" to "set up" a sale would be if he were very new and green. If he's not a brand new salesweasel, he's lying. If he is a brand new salesweasel, he benefited from the learning experience. In any event, he's just miffed because he recognized that he was dealing with a people pleaser and had visions of a big fat commission at her expense. Yup. Exactly my thinking process.
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beergut
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Post by beergut on Dec 15, 2015 20:28:34 GMT -5
The problem with the "if you're not going to be paying for it, you get no input" is that even if I don't offer a single dollar toward the purchase of this car, I'm going to be paying for it somewhere else. If she makes a bad financial decision and ends up short because of that, I'm going to be picking up the slack. Bottom line is that I'm not going to let the kids starve, or go without necessities because mom made a poor decision buying a car. Much easier to try to keep her from making a poor decision that digs her hole deeper in the first place. What you are doing, and modeling to those girls is unhealthy. I've been there and have the t-shirt. Making sure kids have food is not the hallmark of a good parent/parental figure. Lots of shitty parents out there manage to emotionally/mentally screw up kids and still put food on the table and make sure their kids have a roof over their head and clothes to wear. If you really loved those girls, you'd figure out to have an emotionally healthy relationship with your girlfriend. These kids are not in danger of starving or losing the roof over their heads, so maybe that was a poor choice of words. I'm simply saying that if she makes a poor financial decision that puts her on the edge, the next time something unexpected happens, she isn't going to be to able to pay for it, which means I invariably will. That could be something simple like the cell phone bill hitting and her being short, or something bigger like a car repair (more likely, like the inspection issue I mentioned in the OP.) The 15 yr old is constantly asking for books about investing, the 17 year old is in her second year contributing to an IRA. I constantly tell them that they need to be able to stand on their own two feet when it comes to finances, because Disney is a lie, there is no Prince Charming out there to save you.
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beergut
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Post by beergut on Dec 15, 2015 20:35:29 GMT -5
Wait, you mean training the teenage girls that a man is in charge of important financial decisions, a man needs to step in and keep a woman from "making a poor decision", some male rescuer will dig her out of any problems she has and that she needs to play games with guys to get toys and trinkets is not a healthy thing? Those girls need to learn early on that it's fine for a guy to pressure them into doing things they may not like or want - because he really knows best.
And it's so nice that this particular white knight knows exactly how to handle the ladies. Replying to female criticism with "bitch, please" and a picture that appears to show a raised fist poised to put the bitch in her place shows real class. Swoon.
In a couple, the one who is most conservative financially is the one who should handle the finances, regardless of gender. As for the image I posted, are you effing kidding me? A baby raising a fist? Did that trigger you? Who even looks for hidden messages in a meme picture of an infant? Misandry much?
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beergut
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Post by beergut on Dec 15, 2015 20:42:25 GMT -5
would much rather be writing about how I'm with someone who has learned from past financial mistakes and is building their wealth while living below their means instead of trying to figure out how to keep someone from continually attempting Russian roulette with their finances.
How about you stop trying? I think you enjoy getting to feel superior/getting to be a martyr and riding to her rescue. Otherwise why would you keep banging your head against the wall? If she hasn't gotten the message now, she's not going to. So either you enjoy your arrangement or there is something else in the relationship that makes it worth putting up with her. If it is the latter then you're going to have to learn to live with her finanical faults. Either you will need to step up to be a more equal contributor/take over the household finances as opposed to only paying for treats and bail outs. OR you are going to have to have completely separate finances and accept she's going to f*ck hers up from time to time. I enjoy building wealth. When that is put on hold because the money I was going to invest this month is used to help her fix another avoidable 'emergency', I naturally get frustrated. This isn't come need to feel 'martyred' or 'bragplaint' about how wonderful I am because I'm 'riding to her rescue'. If anything, I question my sanity because I keep trying to help her change, and it isn't happening. Everything else about her is pretty amazing, this is really her only issue. Since it is a fixable issue, I keep hoping she will come to her senses and fix it. Am I insane for believing this could happen? Possibly.
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