AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 14, 2011 15:01:29 GMT -5
I'm as pro-life as they come, I am one of those evil people that doesn't even agree that it was the baby's fault the mother was raped-- though that's really a non-issue and mostly an emotional ploy by culture of death lefties anyway-- but I digress-- we can't save everyone. At some point we have to admit in many cases that death is the end of the situation. It seems the hospital was willing to transfer the child home, but unwilling to do the tracheotomy. I actually find that compassionate. Why should "Baby" Joseph have to undergo an invasive surgery, and then suffocate to death? Sorry, but if this is my child, it's sedate and get on with it. Hearbreaking though it would be for me, I try to keep it in perspective-- we live in a fallen world, and for us at least, this is not our home anyway. God's ways our higher than our ways, and His thoughts higher than our thoughts. These seem to be people of faith- I wish they could see how unnecessarily painful this procedure would be for their child and let him die in peace.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Mar 14, 2011 15:06:25 GMT -5
I'm as pro-life as they come not to completely hijack the thread...but I'm feeling the need to ask you your opinions on such programs as WIC, HeadStart, and the foster care system.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2011 15:10:13 GMT -5
Well, you guys found things I have not seen, and I am not going to search for stories right now. I have seen the parents on TV several times, and all I saw them say is they want the baby to die at home. If there is more to this than that I do not know about it. Maybe you know more than I do. If it was my kid I would let him go, also, paul, but in the most humane possible way. I heard the parents say they wanted the trach so they could take the baby home to die. You are saying this is not so. Maybe I heard them lie. For what point, I do not know. I NEVER heard the parents say they want to prolong the child's life.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 14, 2011 15:10:18 GMT -5
Is this really (I mean REALLY) about a procedure that they do every day on television with a pocketknife and a ball point pen case?
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 14, 2011 15:11:27 GMT -5
But Dezi, in the US, we all believe in spending all we can, even when there is no hope. Especially if someone else is footing the bill. FYI, I am a DNR and have an advance directive in responsible hands. Sorry, forgive, what is a DNR? No that is not true. I am a senior, my will is made out, final preparations taken care of, all paid for, not going in foreseeable future, including a living will, that will spell out what and what will not be allowed when or if I am incapacitated. I know most here are younger so you all feel you will live forever, but sorry, you won't. Look around see all that neat open spaces with stone monuments seeming to be coming out of the earth, That's real folks. There is a time when one has to accept the inevitable, it is what life is all about. I feel for these stories, but I feel , example this one and the other, who ever is making these decisions, moving the child as they did, unless there is something we don't know, regarding the treatment , diagnosis by the Doctors in Canada, they are not doing a good deed at all, anything but.
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steff
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Post by steff on Mar 14, 2011 15:13:13 GMT -5
DNR = Do Not resuscitate
My gramma has a dnr in her living will and medical files
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 14, 2011 15:14:14 GMT -5
This message has been deleted. Steff had quicker fingers.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Mar 14, 2011 15:16:17 GMT -5
I don't recall any articles saying exactly what the disease is, but I do believe that Mom and Dad really need to find out what has caused two children to have the same (some articles say same, some say similar?) rare, progressive neurological disease. While I guess finding out the cause would be nice, I would say simply stop reproducing would be a good idea. Agreed. Bit, if this is a truly rare disorder, I'd be very concerned about the cause. Like I said, I don't remember seeing an actual name of the disorder so it could be completely biological. My worry would be if it were environmental.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 14, 2011 15:17:36 GMT -5
I just dare you to find 1 person that actually stated that it was the baby's fault the mother was raped. More liberal-bashing by posting stuff that liberals don't actually say or believe.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 14, 2011 15:25:37 GMT -5
Is this really (I mean REALLY) about a procedure that they do every day on television with a pocketknife and a ball point pen case? And never suck out snake venom if the snake bite is in someone's groin area. You might have to take them out to dinner afterwards.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 14, 2011 15:25:40 GMT -5
I just dare you to find 1 person that actually stated that it was the baby's fault the mother was raped. More liberal-bashing by posting stuff that liberals don't actually say or believe. Ah, the danger of saying something in a way meant to be clever. If the "baby" (for those who believe it is a baby at conception) is not at "fault", then why should it be murdered (for those who believe abortion is murder) just because it was created by rape?
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Mar 14, 2011 15:26:23 GMT -5
.... I see the gangbangers are out in force today. I'm glad baby Joseph is here, and can die an easier death. Yes- he will die, but in a more humane way-- home with his parents and the tracheotomy he was refused in Canada. It's the right thing to do. He is a human life, and there is no reason he or his family should suffer more than necessary. " Maraachli was on his way to SSM Cardinal Glennon Children's Medical Center in St. Louis, Mo., a non-profit health-care facility open to all children in need of medical care." SSM Cardinal Glennon Children's Medical Center in St. Louis, Mo. is not home to this family. Canada is. The parents say they wanted the baby to die at home with them. In Marjar's post, it says "It involves transferring him home, on a breathing machine, and then placing him the arms of his family before withdrawing the machine" I do believe we're not getting the whole story here since the baby would have been taken home first anyway.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 14, 2011 15:26:59 GMT -5
I just dare you to find 1 person that actually stated that it was the baby's fault the mother was raped. More liberal-bashing by posting stuff that liberals don't actually say or believe. Ah, the danger of saying something in a way meant to be clever.
If the "baby" (for those who believe it is a baby at conception) is not at "fault", then why should it be murdered (for those who believe abortion is murder) just because it was created by rape? Precisely. I'm a person that believes abortion is murder. Period. So, I don't make the "exceptions" I'm "supposed" to make.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 14, 2011 15:30:18 GMT -5
" Maraachli was on his way to SSM Cardinal Glennon Children's Medical Center in St. Louis, Mo., a non-profit health-care facility open to all children in need of medical care." SSM Cardinal Glennon Children's Medical Center in St. Louis, Mo. is not home to this family. Canada is. The parents say they wanted the baby to die at home with them. In Marjar's post, it says "It involves transferring him home, on a breathing machine, and then placing him the arms of his family before withdrawing the machine" I do believe we're not getting the whole story here since the baby would have been taken home first anyway. I tend to agree. I don't like these kinds of stories where emotions are running high, it's a family tragedy, and in addition to all that-- it's international news as people try to score political points. However, much of this could be prevented if government / poltics weren't such an integral part of life. If it didn't matter- it wouldn't matter. Simple, I know, and very hard for big government types to grasp.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 14, 2011 15:39:55 GMT -5
Precisely. I'm a person that believes abortion is murder. Period. So, I don't make the "exceptions" I'm "supposed" to make. I've heard you said that you say the morning after pill is ok. You are drawing a line in the sand just like the rest of us between murder & not-murder, your line is just in a different place.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 14, 2011 15:41:30 GMT -5
However, much of this could be prevented if government / poltics weren't such an integral part of life. If it didn't matter- it wouldn't matter. Simple, I know, and very hard for big government types to grasp. If it wasn't the govt, then it would be some large insurance company (as shown by the stories gg has posted). The fight would be the same, just the players would be different.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 14, 2011 15:42:32 GMT -5
DNR = Do Not resuscitate My gramma has a dnr in her living will and medical files me bad, of course..yep , that's in mine too .
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 14, 2011 15:50:31 GMT -5
Precisely. I'm a person that believes abortion is murder. Period. So, I don't make the "exceptions" I'm "supposed" to make. I've heard you said that you say the morning after pill is ok. You are drawing a line in the sand just like the rest of us between murder & not-murder, your line is just in a different place. Sure. I don't think we have to go all the way back to the nano-second of conception. And I'm probably at odds with the Big Boss on that-- but we live in a fallen world. I'm a live and let live person, too, and that's why I think when it comes to the morning after pill that's an individual rights issue. But when you start getting into weeks...there's a person in the works and that person has rights. One of the very few legitimate purposes of government is to protect innocent life.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 14, 2011 16:01:35 GMT -5
I found that a very interesting statement from Sun Hudson's mother. For once, I do believe I'm at a loss for words ...
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Mar 14, 2011 16:03:21 GMT -5
Dezi, DNR = Do Not Resuscitate. If I stop breathing, let me die.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 14, 2011 16:04:53 GMT -5
Sure. I don't think we have to go all the way back to the nano-second of conception. And I'm probably at odds with the Big Boss on that-- but we live in a fallen world. I'm a live and let live person, too, and that's why I think when it comes to the morning after pill that's an individual rights issue. Like I said - you are making exceptions & drawing a line. You view morning after pill as individual rights, but not abortion. There is a huge grey area between life & not-life. Just because you personally feel the line should be drawn at the morning after pill, doesn't mean that everyone else agrees or should have to follow your standard. Again drawing a line. Days is ok, but weeks & they are a person. But, then you have to consider that implatation doesn't happen until the 3rd - 4th week (given the way gestational periods are calculated), so the morning after pill is actually getting rid of a fertilized egg that is already weeks old.
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Mar 14, 2011 16:15:22 GMT -5
Angel, I am philosophically opposed to abortion. Then again, it is a decision I will never have to make. I firmly believe it is a decision to be made between a woman and her doctor. The government should not be involved.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 14, 2011 16:28:22 GMT -5
Angel, I am philosophically opposed to abortion. Then again, it is a decision I will never have to make. I firmly believe it is a decision to be made between a woman and her doctor. The government should not be involved. I agree, robin. It's not something I could ever have done; however, I don't feel myself so all-knowing I can tell others what they must do. That's a very personal decision that should, as you say, be between a woman and her doctor. If the father is willing to pay all expenses, then take the child and raise it with love, in a good home, this is something that could be discussed between he and the woman in question. Other than that, I don't think anyone else has a place in the matter.
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Mar 14, 2011 16:32:26 GMT -5
But there has been an absence of newborns for adoption in this country - and many many homes that would welcome the chance to adopt a newborn - it seems very wrong that more of these babies aren't carried to term and then given up for adoption
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 14, 2011 16:39:29 GMT -5
Angel, I am philosophically opposed to abortion. Then again, it is a decision I will never have to make. I firmly believe it is a decision to be made between a woman and her doctor. The government should not be involved. You don't believe the father has any rights?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 14, 2011 16:49:11 GMT -5
Angel, I am philosophically opposed to abortion. Then again, it is a decision I will never have to make. I firmly believe it is a decision to be made between a woman and her doctor. The government should not be involved. You don't believe the father has any rights?I have struggled with this one and here is where I have gotten: "If you are indiscriminate enough in who you **** that you impregante some ***** who will murder your kid without giving you a say, then you don't deserve a say."
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Mar 14, 2011 16:52:04 GMT -5
But there has been an absence of newborns for adoption in this country - and many many homes that would welcome the chance to adopt a newborn - it seems very wrong that more of these babies aren't carried to term and then given up for adoption there is an absence of newborns to adopt because many people looking to adopt will only consider newborns. there are plenty of children that need parents other than the foster system. this argument would be laughable to me if it weren't so sad - because if these additional newborns weren't adopted for whatever reason, they would become more of those kids that will end up aging out of foster care.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 14, 2011 16:55:29 GMT -5
THREATS? Should I sink to the level of "some" and start crying to moon about you threatening me?? No. I'm a big kid. Give me your best shot. I could care less. [sigh}
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 14, 2011 16:57:54 GMT -5
Dezi, DNR = Do Not Resuscitate. If I stop breathing, let me die. I git it , I git it, back on #46 " me bad, of course..yep , that's in mine too
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Mar 14, 2011 17:02:41 GMT -5
Man Dies After Insurance Co. Refuses To Cover Treatment POSTED: 1:24 pm CST February 9, 2006 UPDATED: 10:31 pm CST February 10, 2006 Email Print KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- Tracy Pierce, 37, lived a full life. He grew up with family and faith. He went to a Catholic school, got married, had a son, and he even had the car of his dreams. It was the perfect life.
"He's been strong. He has," his wife, Julie Pierce, said.
Two years ago, Tracy Pierce's life changed dramatically when he was diagnosed with kidney cancer.
"I have no treatment. Three months has gone by and I haven't had any treatment," Tracy Pierce told KMBC's Jim Flink in May 2005.
When Flink talked to Tracy Pierce, his cancer was attacking his body. Despite being fully insured, every treatment his doctors sought for him was denied by his insurance provider. First-Health Coventry deemed the treatments were either not a medical necessity or experimental.
"I don't know what else to do but just wait," Tracy Pierce said last May.
As he waited, his doctors appealed again and again, including a 27-page appeal spelling out that Tracy Pierce would die without care. Coventry dismissed each request.
"It's purely economical. You never see an insurance company try to block an inexpensive test," said William Soper.
Soper leads a group of doctors who filed a lawsuit last year against insurance providers. This week, Soper went to Jefferson City to lobby legislators for change.
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