Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 8, 2015 10:28:10 GMT -5
Two of the health sites I visited during my romp through cyberspace for this discussion with Rukh suggest that the Atkins diet has been narrowly dethroned by low-GI diets as the "best" way to lose weight.
For those not familiar with low-GI diets: 'GI' is a rating attached to foods; it stands for "General Injoyability". Anything 70+ makes eating enjoyable. Between 30-70 is passable as long as you eat it with something with a GI of 70+. Sub-30 stuff is what they feed detainees in Turkish prisons to break their wills and find out where the Taliban leaders are hiding.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Sept 8, 2015 10:36:39 GMT -5
Your average person would grab the same thing. Maybe, or maybe not. They might also head to the Tim's or ground-level convenience store to get a chicken wrap, a fruit and yogurt cup, a turkey sandwich, some chicken noodle soup, some beef jerky, some veggies and dip (cream-based), a bowl of chili, ... Vegans can't eat any of those things. Tofu wrap. fruit and vegan yogurt. some kind of soup. veggies and hummus. veggie chili.
It seems like vegans just need to be a little more prepared for snacks. Or go elsewhere. I live in BFE and there are a few healthfood stores that carry vegan snack foods. You just need to know where to look.
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saveinla
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Post by saveinla on Sept 8, 2015 11:28:06 GMT -5
As someone who has never eaten meat in my life and will never eat it, there are a lot more options to eat vegetarian and vegan than the examples given.
I also don't understand why you have to eat all the time - that contributes more to the obesity problem than what you actually eat.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Sept 8, 2015 12:08:50 GMT -5
Tofu wrap. fruit and vegan yogurt. some kind of soup. veggies and hummus. veggie chili.
It seems like vegans just need to be a little more prepared for snacks. Or go elsewhere. I live in BFE and there are a few healthfood stores that carry vegan snack foods. You just need to know where to look.
chipolte is the best for a quick meal. Most Chinese and thai restaurants are good for vegan. Indian is good for vegetarian, sometimes it's hard to get something without ghee in it at some Indian restaruants. snacking, it's easy to pick up a bag of sunflower seeds, peanuts or other nuts just about anywhere. I travel all over the country for work, and there are certainly regional differences in vegan friendliness. Chicago is a cakewalk compared to some places. Surprisingly, I've had a lot of good vegan meals at steakhouses. A really memorable one in Galveston tx. They were wonderful and accommodating. excellent cobb salad, and beautifully prepared vegetables. Just make sure you don't eat Planters peanuts as those have animal based gelatin in them. Why? I do not have the slightest.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Sept 8, 2015 12:14:32 GMT -5
Tofu wrap. fruit and vegan yogurt. some kind of soup. veggies and hummus. veggie chili.
It seems like vegans just need to be a little more prepared for snacks. Or go elsewhere. I live in BFE and there are a few healthfood stores that carry vegan snack foods. You just need to know where to look.
chipolte is the best for a quick meal. Most Chinese and thai restaurants are good for vegan. Indian is good for vegetarian, sometimes it's hard to get something without ghee in it at some Indian restaruants. snacking, it's easy to pick up a bag of sunflower seeds, peanuts or other nuts just about anywhere. I travel all over the country for work, and there are certainly regional differences in vegan friendliness. Chicago is a cakewalk compared to some places. Surprisingly, I've had a lot of good vegan meals at steakhouses. A really memorable one in Galveston tx. They were wonderful and accommodating. excellent cobb salad, and beautifully prepared vegetables. Come to Philly. We have Vedge. :-) vedgerestaurant.com
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Sept 8, 2015 12:28:45 GMT -5
that place sounds awesome, meghan! one question - I saw worcestershire sauce included for one of the entrees. I thought that has fish (puree maybe?) in it. do you know what they use, or if they make it themselves?
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Sept 8, 2015 12:31:09 GMT -5
that place sounds awesome, meghan! one question - I saw worcestershire sauce included for one of the entrees. I thought that has fish (puree maybe?) in it. do you know what they use, or if they make it themselves? They make everything. We have a lot of vegan restaurants here so they drop the "vegan" whatever descriptor on their menus.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Sept 8, 2015 12:34:44 GMT -5
that place sounds awesome, meghan! one question - I saw worcestershire sauce included for one of the entrees. I thought that has fish (puree maybe?) in it. do you know what they use, or if they make it themselves? They make everything. We have a lot of vegan restaurants here so they drop the "vegan" whatever descriptor on their menus. yup, that makes sense. I was just unaware that vegan worcestershire was even a thing. learn something new every day, thanks!
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Sept 8, 2015 12:46:43 GMT -5
Tofu wrap. fruit and vegan yogurt. some kind of soup. veggies and hummus. veggie chili.
It seems like vegans just need to be a little more prepared for snacks. Or go elsewhere. I live in BFE and there are a few healthfood stores that carry vegan snack foods. You just need to know where to look.
chipolte is the best for a quick meal. Most Chinese and thai restaurants are good for vegan. Indian is good for vegetarian, sometimes it's hard to get something without ghee in it at some Indian restaruants. snacking, it's easy to pick up a bag of sunflower seeds, peanuts or other nuts just about anywhere. I travel all over the country for work, and there are certainly regional differences in vegan friendliness. Chicago is a cakewalk compared to some places. Surprisingly, I've had a lot of good vegan meals at steakhouses. A really memorable one in Galveston tx. They were wonderful and accommodating. excellent cobb salad, and beautifully prepared vegetables. so clearly you can't eat anything should you forget to bring your lunch.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Sept 8, 2015 13:52:49 GMT -5
As someone who has never eaten meat in my life and will never eat it, there are a lot more options to eat vegetarian and vegan than the examples given. I also don't understand why you have to eat all the time - that contributes more to the obesity problem than what you actually eat. I was going to say, most serious vegans and vegetarians I know make a big point to healthfully plan their meals. They aren't stopping at 7-11 to buy crap because they brought it from home, which is cheaper and more nutritious.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 8, 2015 15:26:01 GMT -5
The bottom line for me is: if you want to be healthy and you have no ethical qualms about eating animals, choose a low-carb diet like the Atkins diet. #1) It matches or outperforms vegetarian/vegan diets in the comparative research, and #2) it's significantly less restrictive.If you do have ethical qualms about eating animals, go vegetarian or vegan. Be careful to take all the necessary supplements, eat the necessary amount of protein, and avoid bad habits with excessive carb consumption. Don't be lazy. #1) What research? That piece with the Ornish condition? "Outperforms" based on what markers? #2) By whose opinion? It is limiting different things. #1) Yes, the Stanford study, which showed the Atkins group lost more weight, had greater decreases in blood pressure, had greater decreases in triglycerides, had greater increases in HDL (a.k.a. "good") cholesterol. Also the study by Key, Thorogood et al. showing no difference in longevity between health-conscious meat-eaters and health-conscious vegetarians. #2) How can it not be less restrictive? A non-vegan can eat anything a vegan can eat, but not vice versa. I, meat-eating Virgil, can still cook vegan dishes and eat food at vegan restaurants (my BIL is vegan, hence this happens reasonably often). I suppose it's true that I can't eat veggie burgers, veggie dogs, etc., but that's only because they're unspeakably bad.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 8, 2015 20:24:40 GMT -5
Holy shit. This thread took off and I got no notices. Ah, well...I'll try to catch up.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 8, 2015 20:26:30 GMT -5
I think Michelle Obama's campaign to have kids eat more veggies is a far cry from the obsession that some of these people apparently have for "clean food". Eating healthy food is not an obsession, nor is it a medical condition. It is smart. Unless the entire underlying premise of what constitutes "healthy" is completely wrong. And we know that it is. Kids should be consuming far less sugar- true; far less carbohydrates- true; but the idea that less meat is good is flat wrong. Kids in particular, but most people should be consuming far more saturated animal fat and protein from meat, and red meat in particular.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Sept 8, 2015 21:29:49 GMT -5
I think Michelle Obama's campaign to have kids eat more veggies is a far cry from the obsession that some of these people apparently have for "clean food". Eating healthy food is not an obsession, nor is it a medical condition. It is smart. Unless the entire underlying premise of what constitutes "healthy" is completely wrong. And we know that it is. Kids should be consuming far less sugar- true; far less carbohydrates- true; but the idea that less meat is good is flat wrong. Kids in particular, but most people should be consuming far more saturated animal fat and protein from meat, and red meat in particular. Americans eat enough meat, especially beef, so I think we're good. We do need to eat more vegetables.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 8, 2015 21:56:06 GMT -5
Seriously, tons of the triathletes I know are vegan and are freaking rock solid hunks of muscle that do ironman tris. These are not weaklings crumbling over their lack of iron. I've read a lot lately about muscle-bound vegans. It seems there is a bit of a counteroffensive going on from the kook brigades. I have two opinions about it- one is that they are not cheating, but that their protein intake from vegetables is only possible from the kind of fossil-fueled agribusiness so many start out to religiously avoid; and the other is that they're cheating.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 8, 2015 22:15:44 GMT -5
Unless the entire underlying premise of what constitutes "healthy" is completely wrong. And we know that it is. Kids should be consuming far less sugar- true; far less carbohydrates- true; but the idea that less meat is good is flat wrong. Kids in particular, but most people should be consuming far more saturated animal fat and protein from meat, and red meat in particular. Americans eat enough meat, especially beef, so I think we're good. We do need to eat more vegetables. Most vegetables are light on both calories as well as nutrients. In addition to meat and fish, we could do with more calorie-dense nuts, root vegetables- carrots, potatoes, beets, and fatty natural fruits like, avocados, olives, etc. Probably the worst vitamin deficiency of the vegan diet is B12. B12 can only be made by bacteria, and can ONLY be found NATURALLY in animal products- especially shellfish, and beef liver. Yes, you can get it synthetically and as an additive to faux food products vegans love, but they are not only not the best sources, but also the least healthy: soy. Soy is an example of the aforementioned fossil-fueled agribusiness most vegans would rather avoid (or just not think about), and it has several significant dangers such as phytoestrogens, it is goitrogenic- it will destroy your thyroid, has phytates which block mineral absorption, contains trypsin inhibitors which prevents your digestive system from digesting the thing vegans need most: protein. It is a myth that Asians eat soy and are healthy- they do not consume soy the way Americans do, nor in nearly the quantities. Government subsidized soy bean farming has left the American food market bloated with cheap, dangerous soy products.
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quince
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Post by quince on Sept 9, 2015 0:42:41 GMT -5
Mmmm...nutritive yeast?
(Yes, white folks, ferment your soy before eating it!)
Fucking natto, though.
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imanangel
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Post by imanangel on Sept 9, 2015 8:05:21 GMT -5
chipolte is the best for a quick meal. Most Chinese and thai restaurants are good for vegan. Indian is good for vegetarian, sometimes it's hard to get something without ghee in it at some Indian restaruants. snacking, it's easy to pick up a bag of sunflower seeds, peanuts or other nuts just about anywhere. I travel all over the country for work, and there are certainly regional differences in vegan friendliness. Chicago is a cakewalk compared to some places. Surprisingly, I've had a lot of good vegan meals at steakhouses. A really memorable one in Galveston tx. They were wonderful and accommodating. excellent cobb salad, and beautifully prepared vegetables. Come to Philly. We have Vedge. :-) vedgerestaurant.comI want to move to Philly! That place sounds awesome!
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Sept 9, 2015 8:14:38 GMT -5
I want to move to Philly! That place sounds awesome! Yeah you do! Visit me!!!!!!
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Sept 9, 2015 10:13:33 GMT -5
Seriously, tons of the triathletes I know are vegan and are freaking rock solid hunks of muscle that do ironman tris. These are not weaklings crumbling over their lack of iron. I've read a lot lately about muscle-bound vegans. It seems there is a bit of a counteroffensive going on from the kook brigades. I have two opinions about it- one is that they are not cheating, but that their protein intake from vegetables is only possible from the kind of fossil-fueled agribusiness so many start out to religiously avoid; and the other is that they're cheating. Those are the only two options, huh?
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saveinla
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Post by saveinla on Sept 9, 2015 10:21:27 GMT -5
Paul - Your thoughts about meat are exactly the same as the vegan who preaches about not eating meat - don't see any difference between the two.
People I know who are vegans or vegetarians don't talk about it at all, unless someone asks them about it.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 9, 2015 10:46:32 GMT -5
I think Michelle Obama's campaign to have kids eat more veggies is a far cry from the obsession that some of these people apparently have for "clean food". Eating healthy food is not an obsession, nor is it a medical condition. It is smart. Unless the entire underlying premise of what constitutes "healthy" is completely wrong. And we know that it is. Kids should be consuming far less sugar- true; far less carbohydrates- true; but the idea that less meat is good is flat wrong. Kids in particular, but most people should be consuming far more saturated animal fat and protein from meat, and red meat in particular. No, we eat too much meat. Evolutionarily, hominids foraged for fruits and vegetables for their primary diet (hence, our teeth that are good for grinding food, rather than with sharp incisors for gripping/tearing meat). Meat and fish were added to the diet if you got lucky and caught something, but mostly you got by with fruit, roots, nuts, bugs, etc. If we could cut out processed foods, sugar, and cut way back on meat we would be a lot healthier, but the problem is no one craves boiled broccoli or raw carrots in the same way we crave hot Krispy Cream chocolate iced doughnuts with sprinkles.....
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Sept 9, 2015 13:21:56 GMT -5
Krispy Kreme............ (picture Homer drool pic here)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2015 13:59:14 GMT -5
If we could cut out processed foods, sugar, and cut way back on meat we would be a lot healthier, but the problem is no one craves boiled broccoli or raw carrots in the same way we crave hot Krispy Cream chocolate iced doughnuts with sprinkles..... I haven't read this whole discussion but I agree that "healthy eating" can be taken to extremes. So can many good practices. I see the other side of the coin. We moved to a house we love in a less-prosperous area. The amount of obesity I see when I walk through the grocery store (and all the crap that's set out to spur impulse purchases) depresses me. Obesity increases risks of back, hip and knee problems, increases some cancer risks and can lead to diabetes. I can't imagine carrying that much poundage around and what it would do to my body. We all end up paying for those issues in the form of higher insurance premiums. So I'll keep on preaching high-veggie, low-fat eating while enjoying the occasional Russell Stover S'Mores bar after a 15-mile bike ride. And yes, it IS possible to end up craving healthy food. When we came home from Iceland and they had trays of fresh veggies at the manager's reception at the hotel in Boston where we overnighted, I realized I was STARVED for fresh veggies. We loved Iceland, but they have a short growing season and most fresh foods have to be imported and are very expensive. I had 2 plates of carrots, green peppers, cauliflower and broccoli. They were wonderful.
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quince
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Post by quince on Sept 9, 2015 14:26:40 GMT -5
I want an eclair now.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Sept 9, 2015 14:42:30 GMT -5
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 9, 2015 15:49:03 GMT -5
Virgil love his cheese and meat, Virgil drink milk from cow's teat, Virgil pet that gentle cow, Good for fifty burgers now!
Virgil hate that tofu brick, Bean and soy make Virgil sick, Virgil meal must be complete, Need a tasty beast to eat.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 9, 2015 17:05:25 GMT -5
"The animals I eat aren't my friends." ― Virgil S. "Immoral based on what?" ― Virgil S. "I've cooked us up some ribs to tide us over while we're waiting." ― Virgil S. "Now I can look at you in pieces." ― Virgil S. "When you're living in a hole scrabbled out by your own hands, ripping cauliflower off the bush with your teeth and eating it dirt and all, lapping water out of puddles without aid of boiling or containers, we'll talk about the fitness of the human body to handle meat." ― Virgil S. "I'm glad it worked for you, sir, but you realize that you were morbidly obese when you died?" ― Virgil S. "'Savage tribes'? 'The more civilized'? The PC police are en route to your grave as we speak, white privilege." ― Virgil S. "Johnny who?" ― Virgil S.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Sept 9, 2015 17:09:01 GMT -5
ya know, Virgil, some of us were actually having an informative discussion here.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 9, 2015 17:23:12 GMT -5
ya know, Virgil, some of us were actually having an informative discussion here. And after Krispy Kreme doughnuts, coconut ice cream, a comedian telling vegans to shove it, and a wall of quotations, I'm the one you're chiding for derailing the thread? Where does "us" come from anyway? You haven't posted in 30 hours.
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