what's wrong with lettng the illegals stay?

[The Captain]

Aug 25, 2015 15:53:13 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Aug 25, 2015 15:27:51 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

The father would have to come into the hospital the baby is delivered at to provide one. The state isn't going to track him down. I'd limit it to a short window after birth too. No trying to find the father 10 years later to do the DNA test and issue citizenship. If the father is present at birth, or within 48-72 hours of same, he can provide a DNA sample to prove the kid is his and get the kid citizenship if the father has it. Otherwise the kid gets the same US citizenship/immigration status as the mother. Easy. Simple. Doesn't require the state to do anything, other than perform a DNA paternity test if requested by the father, who has to come into the hospital to provide the sample.

It would also mean that any woman or couple giving birth would have to prove their citizenship status at that time. If you jump the fence to have your baby here because you don't trust Mexican hospitals the staff will ask for your citizenship info, and in my opinion, should call ICE if you can't provide anything showing you're in the country legally.

I have no problem with any government funded agency asking for citizenship status though. Registering for public school, interacting with the police and fire department, any welfare office, DMV, whatever. If you go to any publicly funded institution to get services they should verify your immigration status and alert ICE if you can't prove you're here legally in some fashion.

How do you enforce that fairly? Do we all have to carry around our birth certificate just in case we have to go to the ER or get stopped by the police for a traffic infraction? It would be easier if we had to prove citizenship to get a driver's license since most people use that for ID, but I seem to recall a lot of hoopla because proof of citizenship wasn't required in some states to get a DL. I don't remember what happened with that though.

I'd say you have about 9.5 months to prepare for the event. It should hardly come as a surprise...

[Deleted]

Aug 25, 2015 12:21:40 GMT -5 sesfw said:

Add the following, and I'd agree with you: "OR biological father (as proven by DNA test)."

Really don't want to add the DNA testing as that is after the birth and who knows where daddy is to get a sample.  Make it just the mother's legal status and women are discouraged from making the dangerous trip while pg, or having a lot of babies while here.

But without that clause, a child born to an American citizen Father COULDN'T get citizenship status... even if the Father WANTED the child to have it. That's why I wouldn't agree to it's citizenship status being equal to the status of the birth mother ONLY.

(and it's why I put an "OR" in big, capital, letters... so the father's status is not a requirement, but an option.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 25, 2015 19:30:47 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Aug 25, 2015 12:21:40 GMT -5 sesfw said:

Add the following, and I'd agree with you: "OR biological father (as proven by DNA test)."

Really don't want to add the DNA testing as that is after the birth and who knows where daddy is to get a sample.  Make it just the mother's legal status and women are discouraged from making the dangerous trip while pg, or having a lot of babies while here.

But without that clause, a child born to an American citizen Father COULDN'T get citizenship status... even if the Father WANTED the child to have it. That's why I wouldn't agree to it's citizenship status being equal to the status of the birth mother ONLY.

(and it's why I put an "OR" in big, capital, letters... so the father's status is not a requirement, but an option.

fortunately, you have section 8.1401 on your side on this one. 

[sesfw]

a child born to an American citizen Father COULDN'T get citizenship status

Then daddy had better help his bride to get a legal status.

You can guarantee mom will be at the birth ....... not so dad.

[SweetVirginia]

Aug 22, 2015 9:23:56 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

As much as some folks want it, the U.S. is not going to eject millions of illegal immigrants from our country. It would be an international crisis on a scale not seen on the world stage since WWII. The chaos it would create in the countries where the majority of these illegal immigrants came from would be unfathomable.

I know some folks will say "Who cares-not our problem." But it will be our problem because the chaos will be in our own neighborhood.

A fix will be developed and the vast majority will be given legal status to remain and work in the U.S. What we need now is a way to stop any more illegal immigrants from entering the country or overstaing their visas.

Many  illegal immigrants do not  "work." Some in the media and La Raza like to call them undocumented "workers"  but I bet those two groups are not asked every single month to fraudulently  sign a school attendance verification form in order to keep receiving "ayuda" or in English terms, welfare, even though their kids have missed weeks or months of school. I am asked to lie about their kid's attendance and assured that if I do, the kid will then start coming to school. At least in my corner of the world, Illegal immigrants have learned how to work the system which is paid for by American tax payers.

[djAdvocate]

oh god.  not this again. 

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

A friend of ours who has lived here since the mid 1990's, married to an American, just became a US Citizen yesterday.  Believe me when I tell you that she is thoroughly disgusted with our immigration politics, and both parties.  She cannot wait to vote for...Donald Trump.  She's never concerned herself with politics both because she could not vote, and because she is not wired that way-- but he speaks to her key frustration-- the inefficiency of the legal system, and the free pass carrot that's being held out to the dregs of the earth.

[SweetVirginia]

Aug 27, 2015 0:25:48 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

oh god.  not this again. 

Nice dj

[djAdvocate]

Aug 27, 2015 17:34:44 GMT -5 SweetVirginia said:

Aug 27, 2015 0:25:48 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

oh god.  not this again. 

Nice dj

hey, it is better than spewing bile all over you, right? 

[dondub]

the dregs of the earth.


. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

[zibazinski]

No kidding. You used to have to be healthy and not become a public charge. Plus, you were expected to assimilate and work and learn the language. Immigrants were thrilled to learn that education was free for all. Their kids were put in younger student classes until they mastered the language. No ESOL bullshit.

[zibazinski]

My Dad and his siblings, not being young, went to the place where rich women who weren't allowed to work, taught English for something to do. My Dad, the baby of the family at 14, went to work to support his two sisters through secretarial school, then all 3 supported my Uncle through high school, college, then law school

[dondub]

SDG,

That post was more in response to the huddled masses being referred to as the "dregs of the earth".

But my staunch Repo friend says the illegals are the only ones that want to work now....painters, roofers, migrant pickers, sheetrockers, landscapers etc. and that white people don't want those jobs anymore. There are certain parties here that are convinced all illegals just come here to go to the ER and get welfare checks and that is not an adequate picture of the reality. Many have w-2 jobs with fake SS #'s and they pay in without taking out. There is way more to that story that just take, take, take.

[dondub]

I don't have any Repo friends that hire illegals.

[mroped]

Aug 28, 2015 16:53:35 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Which is blatant horse shit. Legal citizens happily worked in the trades for decades. Some of them still do, and more of them want to. Your staunch Repo friends prefer hiring illegals because they'll work cheaper, and yes, there are few legal citizens that will compete with them on wages. How much would you want to be a roofer in Phoenix in the summer? It's hotter than the inner circles of hell, the work is hard, it's dangerous. Plenty of citizens will do it, but they won't do it for minimum wage or close to it. Why the hell would they? They can get air conditioned McJobs for that which don't require heavy lifting or have the risk of falling off a ladder/roof.

It's the same argument the tech companies use to claim that they can't find US citizens willing to work as database admins, computer programmers, and everything else. Last I checked tens of thousands of kids graduate with those degrees every spring. If Google can't find tech workers perhaps somebody needs to give them a google map printout with the multiple universities in the bay area circled.

That may be the case down south where illegal immigration is more common.
Here in Pa, unless you go in the inner city you won't find illegals on construction sites. There might be some in the manufacturing plants.
Even McDonalds pays a bit more than minimum wages because they have hard time getting people.
There is plenty of work and very few that want to do it.
For me, doing masonry, I have to pay a day laborer at least a $10/hr just to mix my mortar and possibly move around some material. Basically, eight hour pay for one hour work and still have hard time finding people when needed. And there are plenty of them that don't have jobs but they want a lot more than 10/hr and would prefer to do nothing for that.
Luckly I got my 16yrs old kid for a day or two a week when needed. And I have to pay him $12/hr not because he is my kid but because he knows what he has to do when I ask him.

[mmhmm]

I'm in the south and just had some rather extensive work done on my home, interior and exterior. Not one illegal immigrant took part. The use of broad brushes ends up by getting paint where it doesn't belong.

[Robert not Bobby]

It is not 11 million, it is closer to 20 million.

They should all go. Slowly, but go...unless you want this country to become hispanic, which it will be in 30, 40 years time.
And then they can celebrate coming from one third country and creating another.

Is that too harsh...time will tell.

[Robert not Bobby]

Before I sign off I just wanted to say hi and buy to mmhmm.

See yeah.

[mmhmm]

Aug 29, 2015 14:52:32 GMT -5 Robert not Bobby said:

Before I sign off I just wanted to say hi and buy to mmhmm.

See yeah.

Hiya, Robert. As to buy, I do far too much of that as it is. 

[Value Buy]

Aug 29, 2015 14:44:08 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I'm in the south and just had some rather extensive work done on my home, interior and exterior. Not one illegal immigrant took part. The use of broad brushes ends up by getting paint where it doesn't belong.

Was it a Union shop?
Were they all "white" or "Black"?
How can you be sure?

[mmhmm]

Aug 29, 2015 18:37:09 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Aug 29, 2015 14:44:08 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I'm in the south and just had some rather extensive work done on my home, interior and exterior. Not one illegal immigrant took part. The use of broad brushes ends up by getting paint where it doesn't belong.

Was it a Union shop?
Were they all "white" or "Black"?
How can you be sure?

SC is a "right-to-work" state. No unions. Most of the workers were white, as if that makes a difference (it doesn't to me). Not too hard, in the south, to pick up on home-grown accents, VB. Also, I know the owner of the construction company that arranged for all I had done. I've been here quite awhile. You're not going to fool me easily.

[mmhmm]

Aug 29, 2015 19:29:42 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

I'm in the south and just had some rather extensive work done on my home, interior and exterior. Not one illegal immigrant took part. The use of broad brushes ends up by getting paint where it doesn't belong.

If you look at my post right above yours I said that legal citizens work in the trades. Lots of them. They're being pushed out and undercut on wages by illegals though. Maybe not in your part of the country yet, but it's been happening in California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas for a couple decades now.

If we're using anecdotes, when I had the store built out the only two guys that spoke english were my general contractor and the handyman who did odd jobs. The flooring guys only spoke spanish, one of them could manage a little broken english. The drywall guys only spoke spanish. The handyman complained about having to learn more spanish because so many construction crews around here are predominately spanish speaking that it's getting harder for a white guy to find work. He also told me the drywall guys and flooring guys were illegal. The GC has been hiring them for years. This is a highly rated construction company that's been operating in this area for two generations.

My neighbor is a general contractor. He laments having to hire illegals, but says so much of the competition is doing it that it's the only way to compete.

Coming soon to a state near you. Unless the rest of us wake up and do something about it.

I understand what you're saying and agree, for the most part. However, that doesn't change the fact that painting with too broad a brush is counter-productive. We do have illegals here in SC. They come, mostly, to pick crops. They're also seen on gardening crews and roofing crews. When I had my roof done, I'd not be surprised if some of the workers were illegals. That said, it's still possible to get work done without using them. You've got to pay close attention, though, and it really helps to know people.

[Deleted]

I always find humor in the description "Right-to-Work"... because if you look at pretty much all of the "right-to-work" laws (there may be some exceptions, but I haven't personally seen any yet)... they actually lay out the acceptable conditions to FIRE (or not hire in the first place) an employee!

[mmhmm]

Aug 29, 2015 21:40:05 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

I always find humor in the description "Right-to-Work"... because if you look at pretty much all of the "right-to-work" laws (there may be some exceptions, but I haven't personally seen any yet)... they actually lay out the acceptable conditions to FIRE (or not hire in the first place) an employee!

<chuckle> You'll notice I put that special little phrase in quotes. 

[Deleted]

Aug 30, 2015 0:44:01 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Aug 29, 2015 21:40:05 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

I always find humor in the description "Right-to-Work"... because if you look at pretty much all of the "right-to-work" laws (there may be some exceptions, but I haven't personally seen any yet)... they actually lay out the acceptable conditions to FIRE (or not hire in the first place) an employee!

<chuckle> You'll notice I put that special little phrase in quotes. 

I did notice that... I do it as well. 

[mroped]

Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California- is anybody surprised that many speak mostly Spanish?
All four states have acquired their territory from Mexico. Through legal buys or just military action but most of their territory as originaly Mexican territory. 
Last I checked Mexico spoke Spanish!
Their communities staye tight, tradition carried and according to the law they don't have to learn English, that would be a choice.
Personaly, I find Spanish being spoken with preponderance in those states absolutely normal. Just as I would expect French in Louisians or northern Maine.

That doesn't mean that some of them aren't illegal but also doesn't mean that ALL that speak Spanish only are illegal.

[Value Buy]

Aug 30, 2015 6:53:36 GMT -5 mroped said:

Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California- is anybody surprised that many speak mostly Spanish?
All four states have acquired their territory from Mexico. Through legal buys or just military action but most of their territory as originaly Mexican territory. 
Last I checked Mexico spoke Spanish!
Their communities staye tight, tradition carried and according to the law they don't have to learn English, that would be a choice.
Personaly, I find Spanish being spoken with preponderance in those states absolutely normal. Just as I would expect French in Louisians or northern Maine.

That doesn't mean that some of them aren't illegal but also doesn't mean that ALL that speak Spanish only are illegal.

I know you are not a natural born citizen, so a little history lesson for you.

Mexico encouraged American white man immigration into Texas, as there were few "Mexicans" in Texas, and they needed some population to stimulate growth and tax revenue. There were lots of American Indian peasants but few Mexicans.
California, Arizona and Texas were originally owned by Spain, and the original colonists were Spanish, not Mexican peasants, unless you count the servants of the Spanish hierarchy.
The "Catholic church" settled much of the west trying to convert the Indian population.
California was over run by Americans with the building of the railroads and the discovery of gold.

This is a little simplistic, but still accurate.

[buystoys]

Aug 30, 2015 6:53:36 GMT -5 mroped said:

Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California- is anybody surprised that many speak mostly Spanish?
All four states have acquired their territory from Mexico. Through legal buys or just military action but most of their territory as originaly Mexican territory. 
Last I checked Mexico spoke Spanish!
Their communities staye tight, tradition carried and according to the law they don't have to learn English, that would be a choice.
Personaly, I find Spanish being spoken with preponderance in those states absolutely normal. Just as I would expect French in Louisians or northern Maine.

That doesn't mean that some of them aren't illegal but also doesn't mean that ALL that speak Spanish only are illegal.

Texas was actually a Republic, not acquired by the United States from Mexico.  All or parts of Texas have been claimed by (at one time or another) France, Spain, Mexico, Republic of Texas, and the United States. 

History of Texas

To encourage settlement, Mexican authorities allowed organized immigration from the United States, and by 1834, over 30,000 Anglos lived in Texas,[1] compared to 7,800 Mexicans.[2]

[mroped]

Ok! Thanks for the history lesson! Not that was needed but welcome anyways. I did not see the need for me to enter the exact details on what and how it happened. It just happened that I knew most of, not in such a great detail.

However my overall point was that one should not be surprised when you hear people speaking Spanish while in those four states. Owned by Mexico or Spanish crown at a point or another goes back to the language which in both cases is....yes, you got it: Spanish or variations of!
And to add to the details that were provided in regards to how Texas came to be: 
 I read a while back some obscure history book about the formation and progression of almost all states to the way we know them today.
There were things from how Pa evolved to the territories that it claims and is today, the forever squeeze coming from Maryland in the south and Connecticut and later on New York in the north.
Somewhere in there it went through the evolution of Texas starting with the independent republic. One thing caught my attention: apparently the republic bought land from Mexico offering "as much as 50 cents per acre! I thought that was funny but looking back we have to realize that this happened sometimes in the early 1800 before the Mexican War. 

[Value Buy]

Aug 30, 2015 11:14:53 GMT -5 mroped said:

Ok! Thanks for the history lesson! Not that was needed but welcome anyways. I did not see the need for me to enter the exact details on what and how it happened. It just happened that I knew most of, not in such a great detail.

However my overall point was that one should not be surprised when you hear people speaking Spanish while in those four states. Owned by Mexico or Spanish crown at a point or another goes back to the language which in both cases is....yes, you got it: Spanish or variations of!
And to add to the details that were provided in regards to how Texas came to be: 
 I read a while back some obscure history book about the formation and progression of almost all states to the way we know them today.
There were things from how Pa evolved to the territories that it claims and is today, the forever squeeze coming from Maryland in the south and Connecticut and later on New York in the north.
Somewhere in there it went through the evolution of Texas starting with the independent republic. One thing caught my attention: apparently the republic bought land from Mexico offering "as much as 50 cents per acre! I thought that was funny but looking back we have to realize that this happened sometimes in the early 1800 before the Mexican War. 

There was no" Republic of Texas" before the Mexican war.
The settlers might have been buying land for fifty cents an acre, to settle there, but "Texas" was not buying the land.