Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jul 28, 2015 0:01:09 GMT -5
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 28, 2015 2:25:48 GMT -5
ROTFLMAO!!!! Prager University. Which isn't a university at all, and founded by a weapons-grade, far right whack-job who longs for the good old days when straight Christian white men were in charge of...everything. The feminists, liberals and gays broke America!
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jul 28, 2015 8:04:53 GMT -5
I wasn't looked at where it came from, but thought it could bring a good discussion. I think it does bring some different perspectives, and although I don't expect everybody on this board (or anywhere else) to agree with them, there are some decent arguments in there. Sometimes people are so used to blaming or in some cases hating other groups, that they can't seem to get past that view to adapt to changing times. I think many groups/movements tend to get hijacked by the more extremes in those movements simply because they tend to be more passionate, or sometimes just the loudest so that people begin to think that's what everybody in that group (or at least most people) think.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 28, 2015 9:13:10 GMT -5
I wasn't looked at where it came from, but thought it could bring a good discussion. I think it does bring some different perspectives, and although I don't expect everybody on this board (or anywhere else) to agree with them, there are some decent arguments in there. Sometimes people are so used to blaming or in some cases hating other groups, that they can't seem to get past that view to adapt to changing times. I think many groups/movements tend to get hijacked by the more extremes in those movements simply because they tend to be more passionate, or sometimes just the loudest so that people begin to think that's what everybody in that group (or at least most people) think. If the first thing your opponents come out swinging with is a genetic fallacy, you're not doing too badly.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 10:48:54 GMT -5
Lol Virgil. There are so many false claims and gebneralizations in that video, if you want to examine fallacy I say have fun, you'll find a ton that fit better than the act of examining a source for bias.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 28, 2015 11:11:03 GMT -5
Lol Virgil. There are so many false claims and gebneralizations in that video, if you want to examine fallacy I say have fun, you'll find a ton that fit better than the act of examining a source for bias. There may well be. But in that case, dispute the claims in the video, don't throw the whole thing away because you're skeptical of the source. I've caught publications like HuffPo in lies, glaring omissions, and inexcusable editorial bias on dozens of occasions, but I still do posters the service of treating the articles seriously when they come up for discussion. Sometimes HuffPo even trumps the sites I generally consider more credible, when they fall victim to their own biases.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 28, 2015 11:13:52 GMT -5
I wasn't looked at where it came from, but thought it could bring a good discussion. I think it does bring some different perspectives, and although I don't expect everybody on this board (or anywhere else) to agree with them, there are some decent arguments in there. Sometimes people are so used to blaming or in some cases hating other groups, that they can't seem to get past that view to adapt to changing times. I think many groups/movements tend to get hijacked by the more extremes in those movements simply because they tend to be more passionate, or sometimes just the loudest so that people begin to think that's what everybody in that group (or at least most people) think. If the first thing your opponents come out swinging with is a genetic fallacy, you're not doing too badly. you and others seem to have a different idea of what a "good discussion" consists of.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 28, 2015 11:16:10 GMT -5
Lol Virgil. There are so many false claims and gebneralizations in that video, if you want to examine fallacy I say have fun, you'll find a ton that fit better than the act of examining a source for bias. There may well be. But in that case, dispute the claims in the video, don't throw the whole thing away because you're skeptical of the source. I've caught publications like HuffPo in lies, glaring omissions, and inexcusable editorial bias on dozens of occasions, but I still do posters the service of treating the articles seriously when they come up for discussion. Sometimes HuffPo even trumps the sites I generally consider more credible, when they fall victim to their own biases. Virgil- let me ask you a question. do you think we should spend our time debating the philosophical underpinnings of the KKK, the Weather Underground, or the Black Panthers in a way that treats them as if they had equal footing with say, Kantian ethics, the Bible, and Ayn Rand?
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jul 28, 2015 11:22:55 GMT -5
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jul 28, 2015 11:24:27 GMT -5
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jul 28, 2015 11:25:37 GMT -5
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jul 28, 2015 11:26:21 GMT -5
One from Time, HuffPo, and Forbes, do any of those make the discussion worth having?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 28, 2015 11:32:19 GMT -5
i was asking a simple question, not debating the wage question. if you want to start a thread on the wage question, i am sure you will find some takers. i happen to think that is an interesting debate. so, is that ALL that the OP is discussing?
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jul 28, 2015 11:52:40 GMT -5
i was asking a simple question, not debating the wage question. if you want to start a thread on the wage question, i am sure you will find some takers. i happen to think that is an interesting debate. so, is that ALL that the OP is discussing? The wage debate is a huge part of the discussion when it comes to talking about equality between men and women. It's also hard to argue that you are just looking for equality, but then have no issue with women out earning men at a younger age, or no issue with the gap of women outnumbering men in college continually growing; or not having an issue with men paying more for car and life insurance while screaming it's sexist to charge women more for health insurance. So I think the OP brings up some legitimate points about feminism and some some of the arguments being used in it by the more extremes may not actually be in the best interest of it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 12:05:43 GMT -5
Yes. Let's change the topic to wage gap changing, rather than feminism bashing.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jul 28, 2015 12:10:40 GMT -5
Yes. Let's change the topic to wage gap changing, rather than feminism bashing. I'm not sure it was feminism bashing, but if you'd like to go more on the wage gap, that's fine because that is a large part of the argument.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 28, 2015 12:21:14 GMT -5
The video bashes feminists because in America, "women have it so good, and there's no wage gap. Feminists should just shut up and stop whining." Well, what it fails to mention is that it only applies to single, childless women, not married women with children. Why is it that married men with children don't suffer a wage gap? Why is it that as soon as a woman gets pregnant, it all goes downhill from there? No paid maternity leave. No guarantee that her job will still be waiting for her after she gives birth. No government-subsidized daycare so she can go back to work. American women have it so good, my azz! There's still a lot of work to be done, but we should just shut up and settle for crumbs.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 12:22:16 GMT -5
Yes. Let's change the topic to wage gap changing, rather than feminism bashing. I'm not sure it was feminism bashing, but if you'd like to go more on the wage gap, that's fine because that is a large part of the argument. Feminism vs. Truth is what you have as the title, yes?
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 28, 2015 12:28:02 GMT -5
Countries without paid maternity leave....Swaziland, Papua New Guinea, Lesotho and the United States of America! Nicely done!
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jul 28, 2015 12:32:26 GMT -5
The video bashes feminists because in America, "women have it so good, and there's no wage gap. Feminists should just shut up and stop whining." Well, what it fails to mention is that it only applies to single, childless women, not married women with children. Why is it that married men with children don't suffer a wage gap? Why is it that as soon as a woman gets pregnant, it all goes downhill from there? No paid maternity leave. No guarantee that her job will still be waiting for her after she gives birth.
I'm pretty sure the Family Medical Leave Act prevents employers from firing women who give birth....
No government-subsidized daycare so she can go back to work. American women have it so good, my azz! There's still a lot of work to be done, but we should just shut up and settle for crumbs. The video isn't bashing feminism by saying women have it so good, as much as it's saying that it's not as bad as the extremes try to make it out to be. For example, I'll point you to the HuffPo article I listed above that talks about women having up to 40% difference is wages 10 years after an MBA, and the link found from that article that showed how they got that number: Read more at: freakonomics.com/2010/01/28/superfreakonomics-book-club-goldin-and-katz-on-the-male-female-wage-gap/Why they choose to shorten their hours is up to them and a personal decision. It also seems to involve how much their spouses make. You don't seem to have an issue with the part about men earning less than women at the start of careers.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jul 28, 2015 12:33:57 GMT -5
I'm not sure it was feminism bashing, but if you'd like to go more on the wage gap, that's fine because that is a large part of the argument. Feminism vs. Truth is what you have as the title, yes? That was the name of the video and what the narrator believes to be an issue with some of the discussions related to feminism in its current form, and some of the arguments used.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 28, 2015 12:35:50 GMT -5
i was asking a simple question, not debating the wage question. if you want to start a thread on the wage question, i am sure you will find some takers. i happen to think that is an interesting debate. so, is that ALL that the OP is discussing? The wage debate is a huge part of the discussion when it comes to talking about equality between men and women. It's also hard to argue that you are just looking for equality, but then have no issue with women out earning men at a younger age, or no issue with the gap of women outnumbering men in college continually growing; or not having an issue with men paying more for car and life insurance while screaming it's sexist to charge women more for health insurance. So I think the OP brings up some legitimate points about feminism and some some of the arguments being used in it by the more extremes may not actually be in the best interest of it. like i say, a thread on the wage issue would be interesting. but i don't think it is a "feminist" issue, per se.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 28, 2015 12:37:29 GMT -5
I'm not sure it was feminism bashing, but if you'd like to go more on the wage gap, that's fine because that is a large part of the argument. Feminism vs. Truth is what you have as the title, yes? that seems like a full frontal assault on feminism, doesn't it?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 28, 2015 12:50:54 GMT -5
The video bashes feminists because in America, "women have it so good, and there's no wage gap. Feminists should just shut up and stop whining." Well, what it fails to mention is that it only applies to single, childless women, not married women with children. Why is it that married men with children don't suffer a wage gap? Why is it that as soon as a woman gets pregnant, it all goes downhill from there? No paid maternity leave. No guarantee that her job will still be waiting for her after she gives birth.
I'm pretty sure the Family Medical Leave Act prevents employers from firing women who give birth....
FMLA does not protect all women who give birth: The FMLA only applies to employers that meet certain criteria. A covered employer is a: • Private-sector employer, with 50 or more employees in 20 or more workweeks in the current or preceding calendar year, including a joint employer or successor in interest to a covered employer; • Public agency, including a local, state, or Federal government agency, regardless of the number of employees it employs; or • Public or private elementary or secondary school, regardless of the number of employees it employs. ELIGIBLE EMPLOYEES Only eligible employees are entitled to take FMLA leave. An eligible employee is one who: • Works for a covered employer;• Has worked for the employer for at least 12 months;• Has at least 1,250 hours of service for the employer during the 12 month period immediately preceding the leave*; and • Works at a location where the employer has at least 50 employees within 75 miles. Fact Sheet #28: The Family and Medical Leave Act
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 28, 2015 12:53:15 GMT -5
how dare women demand paid maternity leave!
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 28, 2015 12:57:46 GMT -5
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 28, 2015 13:02:17 GMT -5
how dare women demand paid maternity leave! I know, eh? The unmitigated gall! So, the US wants mothers to have a difficult time as possible. Make 'em stay home, where they belong! Do you want American women to continue to procreate, or do you want to import immigrants? Pick one. If you want American women to continue to procreate, don't keep throwing roadblocks and obstacles in their way!!
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 28, 2015 13:04:15 GMT -5
how dare women demand paid maternity leave! I know, eh? The unmitigated gall! So, the US wants mothers to have a difficult time as possible. Make 'em stay home, where they belong! Do you want American women to continue to procreate, or do you want to import immigrants? Pick one. If you want American women to continue to procreate, don't keep throwing roadblocks and obstacles in their way!!
it is amazing how much resistance for this there is in the "pro-family" Republican Party. i guess some things are more important than family.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jul 28, 2015 13:13:29 GMT -5
I know, eh? The unmitigated gall! So, the US wants mothers to have a difficult time as possible. Make 'em stay home, where they belong! Do you want American women to continue to procreate, or do you want to import immigrants? Pick one. If you want American women to continue to procreate, don't keep throwing roadblocks and obstacles in their way!!
it is amazing how much resistance for this there is in the "pro-family" Republican Party. i guess some things are more important than family. Now DJ, where is your philosophical arguments when somebody tries to make an argument against something that wasn't actually said. Maybe the title of the OP should be angry feminism vs truth because that really seems to be the issue the narrator has (angry feminism instead of feminism in general).
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 28, 2015 13:15:11 GMT -5
A woman in the workforce gets pregnant. There's no mandated mat leave, so she has trouble supporting herself. Then, after the birth, there's no way in hell she can afford daycare so she can return to the workforce. So, she goes on welfare. That's a MUCH better scenario. Cost of welfare benefits to the general population? Astronomical. In other industrialized countries, they encourage women to work and make it easy for them with mat leave and subsidized daycare. I guess Republicans prefer welfare so they can point fingers and complain about "the crab legs in the Coach purses."
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