zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 19, 2015 10:39:40 GMT -5
Zib I think that is the way it works right now. But they won't do anything until the FAFSA is filled out. If the parents won't fill out their part it won't get done. I will add that although FAFSA talks about exceptions for abusive parents and such the biggest reason is that parents don't want their kids knowing how much money they make. We didn't even like it much. It just is an odd dynamic to be put in. This is true. My Ex wouldn't fill one out because he owed me money. Just another way of punishing kids and me. Still it didn't work but it's pretty invasive and the other parent gets to know your entire business as well as that of your spouse if you've remarried.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2015 10:48:55 GMT -5
Kind of but what I'm hearing is that you can't get enough in loans to pay for college. Student's can't get enough from the government loans. They cap the students loan each year (goes up as they advance). So they can take like $5K. The balance they into a parent plus loan. If the parents refuse, the kids take private loans. Several kids at DD's school were doing that because parents in million dollar homes were broke or refused to help. The rub at the state schools is that paying full rate tuition includes 15-20% that gets allocated back to other students for financial aid. I really object to them taking my property tax money, income tax money and then forcing charity on me through the tuition too. Enough is enough.
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Jul 19, 2015 10:49:32 GMT -5
What difference does their retirement balance make? They made the money, it is their's. Not hers. PERIOD. They could ha For the fifth - maybe sixth time, this is about the FAFSAIf you want college students to be "adults", then please contact your Federal government. If it is only about the FAFSA, why even mention their retirement accounts? That is like saying "My parents won't help me. The sky is blue". Who cares of the sky is blue and why is it even mentioned in that context? The reason is (IMHO) because it doesn't have to do with the FAFSA. It has to do with the fact that she wants them to pay up and has deemed that they "have the money" The FAFSA is free so how much money tey have (or dont have) in retirement accounts or other places wouldn;t matter, IF all she wants them to do is fill it out. The issue isn't she wants them to fill it out... she wants some of their assets.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 19, 2015 10:51:30 GMT -5
Zib I think that is the way it works right now. But they won't do anything until the FAFSA is filled out. If the parents won't fill out their part it won't get done. I will add that although FAFSA talks about exceptions for abusive parents and such the biggest reason is that parents don't want their kids knowing how much money they make. We didn't even like it much. It just is an odd dynamic to be put in. I kind of understand their point though. The woman had sufficient funds to pay for college, period. There should have been no need for them to fill it out. Just look at the girl's comment "I saw their retirement statement, so I KNOW that they have money". No, she didn't comment as to what expenses that they currently had, nor did she say how much her parents were currently helping her ON TOP of the college fund. It's entirely possible that the parents were providing her with a car, insurance, cell phone, clothing, buying books, etc. and not acknowledging that those are not inexpensive costs to a family. We are only getting one side of this story. I would absolutely love to hear the other, because I suspect that there is a lot there that the girl is not saying.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 19, 2015 10:52:25 GMT -5
For the fifth - maybe sixth time, this is about the FAFSAIf you want college students to be "adults", then please contact your Federal government. If it is only about the FAFSA, why even mention their retirement accounts? That is like saying "My parents won't help me. The sky is blue". Who cares of the sky is blue and why is it even mentioned in that context? The reason is (IMHO) because it doesn't have to do with the FAFSA. It has to do with the fact that she wants them to pay up and has deemed that they "have the money" The FAFSA is free so how much money tey have (or dont have) in retirement accounts or other places wouldn;t matter, IF all she wants them to do is fill it out. The issue isn't she wants them to fill it out... she wants some of their assets. That's not the kid you want to decide about pulling the plug on you or not.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jul 19, 2015 11:11:34 GMT -5
I feel like I'm the only person who actually listened to that whole thing. She didn't sound incensed and irate. She sounded upset. She did mention things like wanting to focus on school and getting good grades but that isn't the worst thing last time I checked. I know this is YM so everyone here did the college version of walking 10 miles uphill, both ways, in the snow to school every day. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/grin.png) But some of us did get much worse grades in school when we had to work more than a certain number of hours. And some schools won't give out jobs except to students who have demonstrated financial need, read filled out the FAFSA. And I want everyone here to go to the job thread and ask how easy it is to get a job in a town you don't live in and like now. It really isn't that easy. To me that is the telling part about the parents. they are seemingly smart rich people but according to some here totally niave about how darn near impossible it is to get that job from home before the bill has to be paid. I just don't buy it. I still say dumb kids can grow up and be good people. Assholes at 50 die assholes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2015 11:36:40 GMT -5
I don't think she blew through 90K, since she did pay for 3 years of school, in addition to the ill-advised Europe trip . Personally I wouldn't let my DD dangle in the wind, even if she did behave like a douche canoe. Kids make mistakes and I can see much worse outcomes for an 18 year old with 90K, than being short 10K for their last year. Lol, this one would likely be getting more sympathy if she'd developed a drug addiction, blew the money on that, and needed rehab ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) No kidding. Lol.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 19, 2015 11:44:18 GMT -5
I feel like I'm the only person who actually listened to that whole thing. She didn't sound incensed and irate. She sounded upset. She did mention things like wanting to focus on school and getting good grades but that isn't the worst thing last time I checked. I know this is YM so everyone here did the college version of walking 10 miles uphill, both ways, in the snow to school every day. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/grin.png) But some of us did get much worse grades in school when we had to work more than a certain number of hours. And some schools won't give out jobs except to students who have demonstrated financial need, read filled out the FAFSA. And I want everyone here to go to the job thread and ask how easy it is to get a job in a town you don't live in and like now. It really isn't that easy. To me that is the telling part about the parents. they are seemingly smart rich people but according to some here totally niave about how darn near impossible it is to get that job from home before the bill has to be paid. I just don't buy it. I still say dumb kids can grow up and be good people. Assholes at 50 die assholes. It seems to me that you are bending over backwards to paint the parents as assholes (and me too, from your last comment) and the YOUNG ADULT the benefit of the doubt. As I said earlier, I suspect that there is a lot we don't know about what has happened in the intervening 3 years between her getting the education account and now. I would love to hear the parent's side of this conversation because the truth is very likely somewhere in the middle, not so firmly on this girl's side as you seem to perceive it.
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imanangel
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Post by imanangel on Jul 19, 2015 12:03:37 GMT -5
It should, but no, it doesn't work that way. It is actually very hard now for a student to get independent status. 1) get married 2) have a kid or dependent 3) proof that you are emancipated and no longer a dependent of your parents. 4) orphan, ward of the state or in foster care. Well, I don't know about you, but the thought of doing 1 or 2 at the age of 18 would have made me want to slit my wrist. I am not sure exactly how you prove you are emancipated. Do you have to go to court to do that? So I am back to my original statement, it is hard to claim independent just because your parents can't or won't help pay for college.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2015 12:10:26 GMT -5
I feel like I'm the only person who actually listened to that whole thing. She didn't sound incensed and irate. She sounded upset. She did mention things like wanting to focus on school and getting good grades but that isn't the worst thing last time I checked. I know this is YM so everyone here did the college version of walking 10 miles uphill, both ways, in the snow to school every day. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/grin.png) But some of us did get much worse grades in school when we had to work more than a certain number of hours. And some schools won't give out jobs except to students who have demonstrated financial need, read filled out the FAFSA. And I want everyone here to go to the job thread and ask how easy it is to get a job in a town you don't live in and like now. It really isn't that easy. To me that is the telling part about the parents. they are seemingly smart rich people but according to some here totally niave about how darn near impossible it is to get that job from home before the bill has to be paid. I just don't buy it. I still say dumb kids can grow up and be good people. Assholes at 50 die assholes. I'm not sure who you are calling an asshole at 50 that will die an asshole, however I think a couple of us are likely the target. As already stated, I listened to all the segments. My perception filter is different than yours (remember those classes from psych or organizational behavior). Perhaps you can accept that rather than shooting insults at posters in the discussion.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2015 12:17:08 GMT -5
I don't think she blew through 90K, since she did pay for 3 years of school, in addition to the ill-advised Europe trip . Personally I wouldn't let my DD dangle in the wind, even if she did behave like a douche canoe. Kids make mistakes and I can see much worse outcomes for an 18 year old with 90K, than being short 10K for their last year. Lol, this one would likely be getting more sympathy if she'd developed a drug addiction, blew the money on that, and needed rehab ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) Doubt it. Not from me she wouldn't. If she blew her money on drugs I wouldn't have wasted 10 minutes of my life listening to the segments!!! I was willing to give this girl the benefit of the doubt because articles are written to get clicks. She sounded entitled to me, lacking in real world experience, and a little dense/vapid. Maybe this experience will give her a reality check. But it came across to me that there would always be blame on the parents. When she indicated her resolve to go back & finish her senior year, did you catch that part? Not, I want to go back and complete that degree and show everyone I can do this. It was something like 'yeah, I want to go back and see all my friends and be with them for the last year'.
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quince
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Post by quince on Jul 19, 2015 12:45:12 GMT -5
I can't sympathize with someone who can't go to school and work at the same time. My mom worked 40+ hours a week and raised 2 kids while getting her bachelors. I worked 30+ hours a week. Grow up. Also, if she needs to take a year off, she CAN. Her credits will not expire in 12 months.
If her parents would not leave her homeless because she is out of money, THAT IS HELPING HER. Helping a drug addict get into rehab =/= paying for someone's last year of college after they blew money on clothes and travel. It would be the equivalent of assisting with medical bills if she was injured while uninsured, or housing her because she ran out of cash while she gets back on her feet. If they house her for free or at significantly below market rent while she earns money for one more year of college, that is sure as fucking hell helping her.
4 unbroken years of higher education without needing to be employed is massive luxury that no one is entitled to.
Even in college I hated the extended adolescence that people gave to kids going into college: they are as much adults as the ones who go straight to the workforce at 18. Help from parents is good, nice, fantastic, and can really give someone a head start.
This girl had 3 years of college paid for. She has already had a head start. It is no tragedy that she will not get to finish her degree in coddled luxury.
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quince
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Post by quince on Jul 19, 2015 12:48:01 GMT -5
Oh, and coddled luxury is awesome. It would be lovely to have college paid for with spending money on the side, and a cushy job found through parental networking waiting on the way out. I think people who have this deal can be just as functional adults as people without.
But people without this deal are not being treated badly, deprived, having awful parents, etc. And people without this deal learn different lessons.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 19, 2015 13:19:32 GMT -5
I think people on here take waaay too much for granted. Like the fact that the ONLY way to go to college is whatever's the cheapest. Or that your parents know enough about finances that they can sit down and teach you how to manage yours. Or that everyone should be able to work full time and go to school full time (especially for a STEM degree). Yeah she could have watched her pennies a little better but that money could have been spent a LOT faster.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jul 20, 2015 9:37:44 GMT -5
I feel like I'm the only person who actually listened to that whole thing. She didn't sound incensed and irate. She sounded upset. She did mention things like wanting to focus on school and getting good grades but that isn't the worst thing last time I checked. I know this is YM so everyone here did the college version of walking 10 miles uphill, both ways, in the snow to school every day. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/grin.png) But some of us did get much worse grades in school when we haersd to work more than a certain number of hours. And some schools won't give out jobs except to students who have demonstrated financial need, read filled out the FAFSA. And I want everyone here to go to the job thread and ask how easy it is to get a job in a town you don't live in and like now. It really isn't that easy. To me that is the telling part about the parents. they are seemingly smart rich people but according to some here totally niave about how darn near impossible it is to get that job from home before the bill has to be paid. I just don't buy it. I still say dumb kids can grow up and be good people. Assholes at 50 die asshatholes. I'm not sure who you are calling an asshole at 50 that will die an asshole, however I think a couple of us are likely the target. As already stated, I listened to all the segments. My perception filter is different than yours (remember those classes from psych or organizational behavior). Perhaps you can accept that rather than shooting insults at posters in the discussion. I wasn't talking about any posters. The first part of the sentence was about the kids like girl in the interview and the last part was too. This board has a large group of really smart people who see things mostly in black and white. This is one of those discussions that is largely grey. I also thought I knew all about college and paying for it until DD went to college last year. I went to college. DH went to college. DH even went to grad school not that long ago. Yet all the wildly held thoughts on it, like scholarships are plentiful and get a TA for a masters totally didn't work out and not for our not trying. And if I am bending over backward to take her side it is probably because this thread has been bending over backwards to do the opposite. And my DD went to school with bunches of kids that I would have bet their parents had lots of money who ended up going through a version of this. I never thought the parents refusing to fill out the FAFSA was a thing. For the record if you want to be mad at me what I called the posters here was naive. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Jul 20, 2015 10:17:53 GMT -5
Wow, this sounds a LOT like my step daughter. Basically H signed over her college fund to her and the requests for hand outs followed by temper tantrums hasn't stopped since. She actually did a work/study program the past 6 months at Disney and we were hoping that would help teach her the value of money, but nope. We don't really know how much she has left in her college fund (if any or all?) but she keeps asking for more and more money and angry when we don't produce. It's a pretty amazing and foreign concept. I always worked several PT jobs in college and graduate school and also earned scholarships. I'm not sure where the lack of work ethic comes from.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Jul 20, 2015 10:24:24 GMT -5
Wow, this sounds a LOT like my step daughter. Basically H signed over her college fund to her and the requests for hand outs followed by temper tantrums hasn't stopped since. She actually did a work/study program the past 6 months at Disney and we were hoping that would help teach her the value of money, but nope. We don't really know how much she has left in her college fund (if any or all?) but she keeps asking for more and more money and angry when we don't produce. It's a pretty amazing and foreign concept. I always worked several PT jobs in college and graduate school and also earned scholarships. I'm not sure where the lack of work ethic comes from. Her mother ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png)
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Jul 20, 2015 10:38:46 GMT -5
I haven't read the whole thread yet, so my apologies if someone has brought this up already.
But the cost of attending our nearby state university (instate tuition) is 25k/year. Yes, she probably should have had a better plan. Yes, her parents should have taught her some basics. Yes, she needs to suck it up and figure it out.
But that 90k doesn't go as far as I think some people here think it should have gone.
<now going back to page 2>
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Jul 20, 2015 10:51:32 GMT -5
The U that I attended has a neat little cost estimator on the website. It looks like just shy of 25k per year, including a modest amount of spending $$$. Doesn't include summer sessions. Sounds about right for what I spent.
There isn't any way I could've worked full time (part time would've been iffy) and graduated in 4 years (most people in my major were at 5+ years). I instead chose to graduate in 4 years and intern in the summer. But apparently i'm lazy and a failure and not worth hiring seeing as I took loans and didn't work during the school year.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 10:55:57 GMT -5
Wow, this sounds a LOT like my step daughter. Basically H signed over her college fund to her and the requests for hand outs followed by temper tantrums hasn't stopped since. She actually did a work/study program the past 6 months at Disney and we were hoping that would help teach her the value of money, but nope. We don't really know how much she has left in her college fund (if any or all?) but she keeps asking for more and more money and angry when we don't produce. It's a pretty amazing and foreign concept. I always worked several PT jobs in college and graduate school and also earned scholarships. I'm not sure where the lack of work ethic comes from. Actually it appears this girl hasn't asked for anything in 3 1/2 years... And we aren't sure what she is asking for now ...
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Jul 20, 2015 11:22:14 GMT -5
Wow, this sounds a LOT like my step daughter. Basically H signed over her college fund to her and the requests for hand outs followed by temper tantrums hasn't stopped since. She actually did a work/study program the past 6 months at Disney and we were hoping that would help teach her the value of money, but nope. We don't really know how much she has left in her college fund (if any or all?) but she keeps asking for more and more money and angry when we don't produce. It's a pretty amazing and foreign concept. I always worked several PT jobs in college and graduate school and also earned scholarships. I'm not sure where the lack of work ethic comes from. Actually it appears this girl hasn't asked for anything in 3 1/2 years... And we aren't sure what she is asking for now ... She certainly drops a heckuva hint in the story:
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 12:21:26 GMT -5
Wow, this sounds a LOT like my step daughter. Basically H signed over her college fund to her and the requests for hand outs followed by temper tantrums hasn't stopped since. She actually did a work/study program the past 6 months at Disney and we were hoping that would help teach her the value of money, but nope. We don't really know how much she has left in her college fund (if any or all?) but she keeps asking for more and more money and angry when we don't produce. It's a pretty amazing and foreign concept. I always worked several PT jobs in college and graduate school and also earned scholarships. I'm not sure where the lack of work ethic comes from. Actually it appears this girl hasn't asked for anything in 3 1/2 years... And we aren't sure what she is asking for now ... $20K.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 14:36:26 GMT -5
Actually it appears this girl hasn't asked for anything in 3 1/2 years... And we aren't sure what she is asking for now ... $20K. I'm sorry. Did I miss where she was requesting they give her 20K?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 14:38:23 GMT -5
I actually thought she wanted them to help her obtain a loan. To her that meant co/sign... because the type of loan they pointed her towards, they couldn't get on her own. To us that would be filling out the FAFSA, which she didn't seem to even know/understand about...
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milee
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Post by milee on Jul 20, 2015 14:50:41 GMT -5
If I only had to pay 20k for DS' degree I'd be hugging myself, lol. Me too.
But the money is only part of the issue. Of course it would be fantastic to not have to foot the entire bill. But I'd happily pay a little more for their college if they could also learn these lessons, which I think are critical since it's the last stage of extended parental involvement:
1) How to manage what they've got, whether the amount is generous or puny. We're already working on this at home but college is the first time they will be in more of a completely unsupervised sink-or-swim situation.
2) Problem solving. Sooner or later they'll make a goof. Maybe it will be with miscalculation money or maybe it will be with a class or whatever; I want them to demonstrate solid skills on solving their problem. Doesn't mean I won't help them at all, but I want them to put in the legwork of creating possible solutions etc.
3) Attitude of gratitude. Even though we're fairly tough on them, my boys are incredibly lucky to be born to educated parents who give them lots of enriching experiences, guidance and financial support. It's important to me that they recognize and value that; entitlement attitude is something that makes me nuts and I'd feel like I failed as a parent if one of my kids showed entitlement attitude. My older son broke out with an incredibly bratty, entitled 'tude the other day and it horrified me... again, working on it.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jul 20, 2015 15:15:18 GMT -5
If I only had to pay 20k for DS' degree I'd be hugging myself, lol. Me too.
But the money is only part of the issue. Of course it would be fantastic to not have to foot the entire bill. But I'd happily pay a little more for their college if they could also learn these lessons, which I think are critical since it's the last stage of extended parental involvement:
1) How to manage what they've got, whether the amount is generous or puny. We're already working on this at home but college is the first time they will be in more of a completely unsupervised sink-or-swim situation.
2) Problem solving. Sooner or later they'll make a goof. Maybe it will be with miscalculation money or maybe it will be with a class or whatever; I want them to demonstrate solid skills on solving their problem. Doesn't mean I won't help them at all, but I want them to put in the legwork of creating possible solutions etc.
3) Attitude of gratitude. Even though we're fairly tough on them, my boys are incredibly lucky to be born to educated parents who give them lots of enriching experiences, guidance and financial support. It's important to me that they recognize and value that; entitlement attitude is something that makes me nuts and I'd feel like I failed as a parent if one of my kids showed entitlement attitude. My older son broke out with an incredibly bratty, entitled 'tude the other day and it horrified me... again, working on it.
OMG - DD pulled this on me as well - and I still can't figure out where I went wrong.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 15:27:23 GMT -5
I'm sorry. Did I miss where she was requesting they give her 20K? First she asked them to give her $20K that she was short & it would be a loan that she didn't have to pay back until after school and no interest. Parents said she could go to the credit union to ask for a loan. If you listen to the 4 radio segments you will hear the ask.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jul 20, 2015 15:47:00 GMT -5
My older son broke out with an incredibly bratty, entitled 'tude the other day and it horrified me... again, working on it.
OMG - DD pulled this on me as well - and I still can't figure out where I went wrong. Not sure here, either. With DS, I think it was a combination of not really understanding the implications of the situation and also - being a teen boy and in that stage where he gets easily embarrassed - making a dumb statement to cover embarrassment. He had forgotten an appointment he made - where the person actually made a special effort to squeeze him into their overbooked schedule to help him - and didn't show up. When we all realized what happened, I was talking to him about what he needed to do to "fix" the situation and he was totally nonchalant like it was no big deal. He even assumed a snooty demeanor and said something along the lines of "well, she's just a service provider and we do pay her for her service" as if that made it OK to treat her time cavalierly.
As shocked and horrified as I was by his attitude, now that I'm a little calmer I'm comforting myself with the idea that at least it happened when he was 15, still at home and we could discuss with him why this attitude is absolutely, completely unacceptable.
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Jul 20, 2015 15:53:18 GMT -5
To be fair, we don't know the financial position of the parents. All we know is that Dad has a retirement plan- that -as we all know- should not be tapped for this.
I doubt there are many parents that could simply write a check for 20k that they hadn't planned for. Maybe they told her to go to a bank because that is all they know. Having thought her education was covered, they may not have checked into it.
Not everyone is as financially savvy as those here.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Jul 20, 2015 16:07:24 GMT -5
Me too.
But the money is only part of the issue. Of course it would be fantastic to not have to foot the entire bill. But I'd happily pay a little more for their college if they could also learn these lessons, which I think are critical since it's the last stage of extended parental involvement:
1) How to manage what they've got, whether the amount is generous or puny. We're already working on this at home but college is the first time they will be in more of a completely unsupervised sink-or-swim situation.
2) Problem solving. Sooner or later they'll make a goof. Maybe it will be with miscalculation money or maybe it will be with a class or whatever; I want them to demonstrate solid skills on solving their problem. Doesn't mean I won't help them at all, but I want them to put in the legwork of creating possible solutions etc.
3) Attitude of gratitude. Even though we're fairly tough on them, my boys are incredibly lucky to be born to educated parents who give them lots of enriching experiences, guidance and financial support. It's important to me that they recognize and value that; entitlement attitude is something that makes me nuts and I'd feel like I failed as a parent if one of my kids showed entitlement attitude. My older son broke out with an incredibly bratty, entitled 'tude the other day and it horrified me... again, working on it.
OMG - DD pulled this on me as well - and I still can't figure out where I went wrong. Where did I go wrong? You had kids! Sooner or later you're going to get some attitude. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
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