andi9899
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Jul 2, 2015 10:37:55 GMT -5
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Post by andi9899 on Jul 2, 2015 10:37:55 GMT -5
What is it about lamps... they are usually stupidly expensive and they cause a lot of disagreements. MrSroo and I seem to have the same thing going on. For some reason when he took out the overhead light fixture in the bedroom to install a ceiling fan, he didn't install the light that came with it. So now we have a bedroom with very little natural light and and two small lamps. Cue disagreement... Me: Hunny... just install the light in the ceiling fan. Him: We can just buy another lamp for the room Me: But lamps are stupidly expensive ---Rant about why and how lamps are expensive and they shouldn't be expensive... and I built one in 8th grade.. maybe I'll build my own goddamn lamp Him: Seriously it's just a lamp Me: Seriously it's just a ceiling fan light fixture that we already own! Him: You know it's not that dark in here Me: am I the only one here who buys the cheapest floor lamp from Target and calls it a day? Nope! I do too. I can't imagine spending $200 on a lamp. That's just crazy to me. I think I spent $50 for a set of 3 once, but that's the most I've spent. I've had them for at least 6 years and they work just fine.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Jul 2, 2015 10:53:40 GMT -5
So Beer should have said "I don't need a lamp, but if you have to have one, here, buy this cheap one from Target, not the one you want..." ? IMO if he has a problem paying for something, he shouldn't pay it. Don't pay for it and then use it as a later source of resentment. I read it as he didn't offer to pay for the lamp. That she had bought it and he was to pay for the vacation (which was a complete want) instead of her just dropping her kids off to some camp (another want) only for her to say "Oh yeah. Those lamps I bought that you didn't want, well I know I said I would buy them. But I can't manage my money, so now I need you to give me money so I can pay for them while I'm on the unneeded vacation with my kids that you paid for before I drop them off at the unneeded camp that you also paid for". How is that fair? Then she says that she needs even more money from him for "incidentals" when she really just wants to go clothes shopping for kids that aren't his and from what we know so far, didn't volunteer to clothe. To me, it seems like he is being treated like the bank of beer.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 2, 2015 10:58:13 GMT -5
She said 'incidentals', I assumed (yeah, I know what that makes me) she meant hotel costs, later found out that to her, shopping for clothes on vacation is an 'incidental'. My assumption doesn't make her a liar. No. It doesn't. Her telling you "incidentals" instead of "shopping" does. I've been in relationships with liars before both romantic and platonic. It's something I hope to not have happen again. I have no respect for a liar. It depends. Did she buy underwear because she left hers at home? Did her shirt rip? Did her bikini top break? Those could be incidentals. (Been there, done that. )
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swamp
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Jul 2, 2015 10:59:59 GMT -5
Post by swamp on Jul 2, 2015 10:59:59 GMT -5
No. It doesn't. Her telling you "incidentals" instead of "shopping" does. I've been in relationships with liars before both romantic and platonic. It's something I hope to not have happen again. I have no respect for a liar. It depends. Did she buy underwear because she left hers at home? Did her shirt rip? Did her bikini top break? Those could be incidentals. (Been there, done that. ) Or was it June and the forecast was sunny and 85, but it got cold and rainy so they bought some pants and a sweatshirt?
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 2, 2015 11:00:12 GMT -5
What is it about lamps... they are usually stupidly expensive and they cause a lot of disagreements. MrSroo and I seem to have the same thing going on. For some reason when he took out the overhead light fixture in the bedroom to install a ceiling fan, he didn't install the light that came with it. So now we have a bedroom with very little natural light and and two small lamps. Cue disagreement... Me: Hunny... just install the light in the ceiling fan. Him: We can just buy another lamp for the room Me: But lamps are stupidly expensive ---Rant about why and how lamps are expensive and they shouldn't be expensive... and I built one in 8th grade.. maybe I'll build my own goddamn lamp Him: Seriously it's just a lamp Me: Seriously it's just a ceiling fan light fixture that we already own! Him: You know it's not that dark in here Me: am I the only one here who buys the cheapest floor lamp from Target and calls it a day? Maybe - I tend to buy $30-$40 pole lamps at Target. I know I've seen cheaper ones in the past so I don't think I'm actually buying the cheapest Target ones but I'm close.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Jul 2, 2015 11:03:05 GMT -5
No. It doesn't. Her telling you "incidentals" instead of "shopping" does. I've been in relationships with liars before both romantic and platonic. It's something I hope to not have happen again. I have no respect for a liar. It depends. Did she buy underwear because she left hers at home? Did her shirt rip? Did her bikini top break? Those could be incidentals. (Been there, done that. ) $300 for forgotten underwear? Come on.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 2, 2015 11:08:13 GMT -5
She said 'incidentals', I assumed (yeah, I know what that makes me) she meant hotel costs, later found out that to her, shopping for clothes on vacation is an 'incidental'. My assumption doesn't make her a liar. This makes a lot more sense now! not to me. But semantics can be tricky. Incidentals, to me, are the tiny things - a night light because I forgot to pack one. Socks because we went somewhere on the spur of the moment where socks were a required (indoor kid playgrounds) and all 4 of us were in sandals. Getting snacks at the gas station because I want a candy bar when we're stopping for gas and to use the bathrooms. Batteries for a flashlight or a new flashlight (I swear DH has an addiction to those pen light type flashlights and every time we go somewhere he buys at least one.) That type of thing. Clothes, and I'm assuming this is assorted gear with the logo of the college on it, doesn't make the cut as an incidental to me.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 2, 2015 11:09:15 GMT -5
I don't know. You send them to a camp, I think buying one item per kid could be incidental.
But really, the problem is that she can't manage money and he's not being honest about his contribution to the household. He thinks that groceries are enough and maybe it is, but they never go over expenses ahead of time and find out what is a fair distribution. And to be fair, he is always going to have more disposable income if she is supporting 3 kids.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Jul 2, 2015 11:15:49 GMT -5
They are her kids to support. When Old Dude lived with me and my girls, he paid half of the average cost of the bills. When we went to the grocery store, he would hand me some cash towards it, or he would pay at one store and I would pay at another. When we went out, sometimes he paid for everyone, sometimes I did. If the girls needed or wanted something other than that, it was my responsibility because they are my girls. Does that mean he never saw something in a store that he thought they might like and buy it? No. But I never asked him to or expected him to. And he always did have more disposable income than me even though I made more money because I had kids at home and he didn't.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 2, 2015 11:18:18 GMT -5
It depends. Did she buy underwear because she left hers at home? Did her shirt rip? Did her bikini top break? Those could be incidentals. (Been there, done that. ) $300 for forgotten underwear? Come on. I didn't see a dollar amount. It could be $300 in forgotten sports bras for a well endowed girl easily. But truly that is just a symptom of their problems.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 2, 2015 11:22:31 GMT -5
They are her kids to support. When Old Dude lived with me and my girls, he paid half of the average cost of the bills. When we went to the grocery store, he would hand me some cash towards it, or he would pay at one store and I would pay at another. When we went out, sometimes he paid for everyone, sometimes I did. If the girls needed or wanted something other than that, it was my responsibility because they are my girls. Does that mean he never saw something in a store that he thought they might like and buy it? No. But I never asked him to or expected him to. And he always did have more disposable income than me even though I made more money because I had kids at home and he didn't. Yes they are. But is his contribution truly a fair financial contribution? What was his rent before he moved in? What were his groceries? Let's figure out necessities first and then figure out fun stuff. Maybe he takes crazy long showers and their utilities doubled when he moved in and she is now spending more money? Unlikely, but we just don't know. Heck, I doubt they know either.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jul 2, 2015 11:23:24 GMT -5
It depends. Did she buy underwear because she left hers at home? Did her shirt rip? Did her bikini top break? Those could be incidentals. (Been there, done that. ) Or was it June and the forecast was sunny and 85, but it got cold and rainy so they bought some pants and a sweatshirt? In TEXAS??!?? The only way you'll need warm clothes is if the AC knob breaks and you can't turn it up.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 2, 2015 11:24:50 GMT -5
I don't know. You send them to a camp, I think buying one item per kid could be incidental. But really, the problem is that she can't manage money and he's not being honest about his contribution to the household. He thinks that groceries are enough and maybe it is, but they never go over expenses ahead of time and find out what is a fair distribution. And to be fair, he is always going to have more disposable income if she is supporting 3 kids. No, it's an expected/assumed cost. We do something new/differnt/unique (for us) and there's going to be some kind of souvenir coming home with us. Could be clothing, could be plastic dinosaur toys, could be damn near everything they asked for at WDW. If it's somewhere common (again, to us) then no, I'm not buying anything.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jul 2, 2015 11:24:50 GMT -5
So if I am at Disney World and it is cold and rainy instead of the warm and sunny like we expected the only reasonable thing to do is to leave to drive around central Florida to find a Target to buy a sweatshirt. And for the record my Son had a problem getting to Minecraft camp this week. he was so excited about the camp he spilled crap on him self on the way there. His sister didn't tell him tough you can't go to camp or we have to find a thrift store to buy a shirt at. She bought him a shirt at the only place around that had them. The college bookstore. And yeah it wasn't $5.
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 2, 2015 11:41:44 GMT -5
I am no Virgil, but i am pretty sure he had a very similar thread over a year ago, so things haven't changed that much.
That being said, it seems to work for them.
He is only paying a small portion bc he is one of five people living there. She has a safety net if she doesn't have enough.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2015 11:47:00 GMT -5
Maybe he should move back on his own then. I think she was probably financially better off before he moved in. At least financially more in control of her own spending,
It's not fair if he gets all the benefits of living together... Or at least gets to control all of the benefits of living together.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 2, 2015 11:48:58 GMT -5
I am no Virgil, but i am pretty sure he had a very similar thread over a year ago, so things haven't changed that much. That being said, it seems to work for them. He is only paying a small portion bc he is one of five people living there. She has a safety net if she doesn't have enough.I remember a few posts here and there from beergut mentioning the GF but not a thread. But I don't claim to read every thread made. We have mods for that! If she's calling from College Station about not having enough cash and doesn't have any CCs - I would think her safety net is beergut, followed by her Dad as beer's indicated he used to bail her out. Something is out of whack, I think we all agree on that.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Jul 2, 2015 12:10:08 GMT -5
I am no Virgil, but i am pretty sure he had a very similar thread over a year ago, so things haven't changed that much. That being said, it seems to work for them. He is only paying a small portion bc he is one of five people living there. She has a safety net if she doesn't have enough. If that's the case and after a year it has not been addressed or "fixed", then he deserves what he gets.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Jul 2, 2015 13:46:51 GMT -5
I am no Virgil, but i am pretty sure he had a very similar thread over a year ago, so things haven't changed that much. That being said, it seems to work for them. He is only paying a small portion bc he is one of five people living there. She has a safety net if she doesn't have enough. If that's the case and after a year it has not been addressed or "fixed", then he deserves what he gets.Couldn't agree more. Someone once said that the first time something goes wrong it's a mistake, the second time it goes wrong - it's a choice.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Jul 2, 2015 14:35:17 GMT -5
If that's the case and after a year it has not been addressed or "fixed", then he deserves what he gets. Couldn't agree more. Someone once said that the first time something goes wrong it's a mistake, the second time it goes wrong - it's a choice. I'm so going to use this line. I love it!
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jul 2, 2015 15:14:45 GMT -5
I sure as heck wouldn't want to be paying half the mortgage on a house in which I occupied half a bed. Esecially not with this statement being true: "I pay for groceries, food, nights out, vacations, special events. I've done the math several times. One month of feeding those kids is more than the mortgage payment" and having raised two boys can see how that could easily be true.
The clothes buying has two sides as well: on the one hand yes, clothes are a necessity but that also means they should have been budgeted for. If these clothes were not budgeted for then one can only assume that they were wants. I believe it was Ruhk (I might be mistaken though) who said that it would be better if a boyfriend did not pay for the kids wants but paid towards the general running of the household so that mom could use her own money to provide some of her kids wants. However, how is shopping for kids clothes and then turning around asking your partner for the money reasonable: you get to play the good guy with moneythat sure as heck wasn't yours to spend.
Does that mean that the adults have equal responsibility in what is clearly a - as of yet still- informal and unequal situation? Another way of determining how much Beer should contribute is to see how much her cost went up by him living in her house, how much his cost went down, and then meeting somewhere in the middle.
My guess is that if Beer and GF each want to reach their goal Beer stated early on in this thread (My deal-breaker is finance, her deal-breaker is marriage. If we want to stay together, she has to know that marriage is an end goal. I'm just fine being together and being committed...) they will need to do the grown-up thing and start talking to each oher on how to get there.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2015 15:17:19 GMT -5
No one said he should pay half. Just that he should be paying towards fixed bills and not to extras. Even food, which can easily be much less or much more depeniding on choice and circumstances is not the same as contributing a portion to the fixed bills.
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beergut
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Post by beergut on Jul 2, 2015 16:09:18 GMT -5
She said 'incidentals', I assumed (yeah, I know what that makes me) she meant hotel costs, later found out that to her, shopping for clothes on vacation is an 'incidental'. My assumption doesn't make her a liar. Honestly, the lamp thing is more annoying. Both lamps in the living room died a few months ago. I'm never in the living room, spend most of my time in the kitchen/dining area, or master bedroom. She said she wanted to replace the lamps, I said I was okay with the natural light that comes into the living room because I'm only in there during the daytime. She goes out and finds lamps she wants and buys them. I'm fine with this, because this is something she wanted, not necessarily something she needed, but she went out and bought it. To her it was a need, to me it was a want. Except I ended up paying for the damn things in the end. We have these fights so I totally understand! I know this is strange but can I tell you what she hears when this goes on? You only go in the living room during the day and not very often so it is fine if there is just enough natural light for you to walk through it. So when she or the kids sits there to read or at night, they are in the dark. So when you said you are fine with there being no working lights she heard you saying you are fine with her sitting in the dark in her own living room. Yeah that wouldn't have flown with me either. I am in favor of those pole lamps you can get at Target or Walmart, give off a ton of light, although I think there was a concern about them being a fire hazard some years back? They're cheap, and because they give off a ton of light, I think they're a good value. But she wanted the decorative lamps that were more expensive, so she bought them. It isn't an "I don't want you to have light in this room" thing as much as it is a "I don't see the point in spending $200 on 'stylish' lamps when you can spend a lot less to get light in this room".
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jul 2, 2015 16:09:59 GMT -5
We have these fights so I totally understand! I know this is strange but can I tell you what she hears when this goes on? You only go in the living room during the day and not very often so it is fine if there is just enough natural light for you to walk through it. So when she or the kids sits there to read or at night, they are in the dark. So when you said you are fine with there being no working lights she heard you saying you are fine with her sitting in the dark in her own living room. Yeah that wouldn't have flown with me either. I am in favor of those pole lamps you can get at Target or Walmart, give off a ton of light, although I think there was a concern about them being a fire hazard some years back? They're cheap, and because they give off a ton of light, I think they're a good value. But she wanted the decorative lamps that were more expensive, so she bought them. It isn't an "I don't want you to have light in this room" thing as much as it is a "I don't see the point in spending $200 on 'stylish' lamps when you can spend a lot less to get light in this room". They are so friggen ugly, though.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 2, 2015 16:11:58 GMT -5
I am no Virgil, but i am pretty sure he had a very similar thread over a year ago, so things haven't changed that much. That being said, it seems to work for them. He is only paying a small portion bc he is one of five people living there. She has a safety net if she doesn't have enough.I remember a few posts here and there from beergut mentioning the GF but not a thread. But I don't claim to read every thread made. We have mods for that! If she's calling from College Station about not having enough cash and doesn't have any CCs - I would think her safety net is beergut, followed by her Dad as beer's indicated he used to bail her out. Something is out of whack, I think we all agree on that. That's what I meant. I also wouldn't be surprised if she is covering all regular expenses as a comfort zone for her. If I was a single mom of 3 and allowed some young guy move it, I wouldn't want him to pay for anything like mortgage, electric, etc. I know I am more paranoid and cynical than most, but I wouldn't want him anywhere near my "home" expenses. For two reasons - 1) I wouldn't want him to claim any kind of ownership and 2) I would want to make sure that if he is gone tomorrow, I am still able to cover it. Having him as a safety net for "emergency" clothes and hotel bills wouldn't have been a big deal.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Jul 2, 2015 16:15:58 GMT -5
I am in favor of those pole lamps you can get at Target or Walmart, give off a ton of light, although I think there was a concern about them being a fire hazard some years back? They're cheap, and because they give off a ton of light, I think they're a good value. But she wanted the decorative lamps that were more expensive, so she bought them. It isn't an "I don't want you to have light in this room" thing as much as it is a "I don't see the point in spending $200 on 'stylish' lamps when you can spend a lot less to get light in this room". They are so friggen ugly, though. Thank you Archie, I think this needed to be said *from the guy that his wife is currently Shopping for a lamp for the living room*
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beergut
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Jul 2, 2015 16:16:36 GMT -5
Post by beergut on Jul 2, 2015 16:16:36 GMT -5
I don't understand how you think he is showing respect that she is not reciprocating I guess.... How much did those camps cost? And he pays for those, not considering what other expenses might be brought up by the camp, and while ignoring the fact that the living room is unusable to the family for a good part of the day because there is no lighting. Telling her the camps are essential to him, but she should sit in the dark until she can save up the money. I don't know. I don't see anything equal in how he is setting up finances. I think he's setting it up to fail. And he has not once commented about why he doesn't pay a portion of the regular bills versus deciding on what are the "important" extras and paying for those... I take it you've never been in Texas in the Spring or Summer? We get 12-14 hours of sunlight this time of year, which means the living room would be usable to anyone who wants to hang out there. Fact is, the only time people really use the living room is to watch television at night, at which time they have the lights off. There is a ceiling fan with a light that gives off plenty of light if used, but she wanted lamps she could put at either end of the couch. I'm not sure where you got this idea about the camps? I asked the 15 yr old over a year ago if she'd be interested in going to the camp, because I knew she liked soocer. Since I told her a year ago I would send her to this camp, I paid for it. I believe if you say you're going to do something, you need to do it. The 17 yr old came to me and showed me the brochure for the camp she wanted to go to. Again, this wasn't me or my 'needs', this was something she wanted to do. I knew it was something she really wanted to do and was integral to what she is doing in her extracurricular activities in school, so I agreed to pay for it.
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quince
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Post by quince on Jul 2, 2015 16:18:36 GMT -5
I reject Target lamps. We have one from Target and one from IKEA, and the Target lamp we had to exchange the original because the threads were a mess on a piece, and the new one wobbles and leans drunkenly. A similarly priced IKEA lamp in a similar style is functional and solid.
IKEA can have all my money. (Except I have no space for more stuff.)
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beergut
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Jul 2, 2015 16:22:39 GMT -5
Post by beergut on Jul 2, 2015 16:22:39 GMT -5
So Beer should have said "I don't need a lamp, but if you have to have one, here, buy this cheap one from Target, not the one you want..." ? IMO if he has a problem paying for something, he shouldn't pay it. Don't pay for it and then use it as a later source of resentment. I'm not sure I understand this statement? I didn't want the $200 lamps, because that is an impractical amount of money to spend on lamps. I didn't pay for the lamps, she did. However, because they were on back order and the cost didn't hit her account until months later, I ended up paying for them. So I ended up paying for something I think was overpriced and had no desire to buy in the first place. You don't understand why I'd find that annoying?
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beergut
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Jul 2, 2015 16:30:20 GMT -5
Post by beergut on Jul 2, 2015 16:30:20 GMT -5
Expensive food, vacations and camps you can't afford.... Not really a need either. Providing clothes, lighting, and security (what drives her inherent feeling of not favoring one child over another)... Much closer to needs to me than what you pay for.... So... Why are only your priorities what extras go toward in the home? Again. She should be bringing out her whole financials ... And so should you. And then divy up what it really takes to run the household. (Ask her what SHE was paying for food before you moved in... Or give her the 500-600 for food an see how she spends it) ... And then EACH of you use the cusion that living together creates to save/spend for what you want. What you are doing is actually very controlling and while I don't agree with manipulation, I can see how it can give way to it on her part. I think that beer may be missing the point that is being made here. Currently - the way that the finances are divvied up, the GF is paying for all the essentials, the boring, behind the scenes bills that are just standard, while beer pays for the interesting, variable, extras and splurges. while this might have been a little off for a couple, where she pays everything necessary and you make all the discretionary choices, when you put kids into the mix, it really does take an another dimension. You may even be encouraging her so spend even more on the kids trying to keep up. As a parent - you don't want your kids to have the feeling that you never do anything nice or special for them. And in fact, unless the kids have the insider scoop on how you two are handling the finances (and - in general - I don't think they should) - You have put her into the position of her kids thinking she is stingy or uncaring as she goes on multiple mini vacations all the time with you, but can't come up with the money to do nice things for them. Meanwhile, the boyfriend is always doing nice stuff, buying extras, etc. so you have put her into the position that you have upped the ante here while she is locked into all those standard bills and you have money flowing for all kinds of funess. Split the bills equitably, pay her some agreed proportion of market rent, groceries, etc. so she can also has a designated part of her money to do splurgy things now and again without breaking the bank. I think the kids have the 'insider scoop' on how finances work, when they want something nice, they come ask me for it. I think one of the reasons GF struggles with her finances is her inability to say no to her kids. And if she gets something for one, she has to buy something for the other two to be fair.
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