Opti
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Post by Opti on Jun 4, 2015 19:35:58 GMT -5
Please, allow me. "Richard" is what the computer defaults to, when one is referring to a d.i.c.k.
I really have to get out more. Nah, just post more. Richard -> Richard Cracker -> Saltine
Richard Cracker
ETA: Interesting, It changed Richard but not Cracker.
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steff
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Post by steff on Jun 4, 2015 19:37:47 GMT -5
Imagine having a "woman's spirit", then imagine drugging yourself, going through painful and expensive surgeries, and driving a steamroller over relationships with virtually everybody you know, winding up awkward, unattractive, painfully conspicuous, and (in all statistical likelihood) even more unhappy than you were before, and you'll have fathomed the mind of Bruce Jenner. This is all perfectly right and rational--award-worthy, even--in the minds of countless people today, hence it would appear Mother Nature screwed it up worse than you're giving her credit for. My proper respects, meanwhile, go out to Todd Brighton. He gets my award. Imagine being a pompous, fundamentalist Richard who has a seeming compulsion to lecture the world on how they are damaged and delusional and evil and wrong and awkward and unattractive and conspicuous and just generally an all-around aberrance of nature who has no way to ever find happiness and peace EXCEPT that what they REALLY need to do is think and believe and act and behave like they do and fit some tight little fundamentalist mold that is determined by a small group of people in order to be an acceptable human being . I think I love you.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jun 4, 2015 20:09:25 GMT -5
Getting mocked or insulted is, to him, simply the cost of doing business. He doesn't care any more about the criticism than you or I do. I know I've said this before, but he's had you on 'ignore' for going on three years now, and he doesn't peek. I realize at least a part of "Paul, you rotten misinforming sunofagun..." is posturing, but that had better be worth it to you, because you might as well be screaming into an empty paint bucket. If I was Paul and you were you, I'd probably have you on 'ignore' too. (That's assuming I didn't find your frequent paroxysms comical, which I probably would. ) "Tarnfarn it, Paul! Ya crocked the bejabber agin! Ya spun da lace o' da blind ram's ass! Ya be bajiggerin' with facts ain't no man oughta be bajiggerin' wit. I... I... *wheeze* Paul, you dadgum... You... Oh, pass me muh pills, I got me muh ragin' sweats." First, I doubt he has me on ignore. He does quote me on occasion, which he would not be able to do if he could not read my posts.
Second, I do not post for his benefit. I post such things to allow everyone else who sees the same thing to know that their interpretation of the matter is correct.
Finally, are you sure that "paroxysm" is the word you want? It seems more than a bit overstated. But since you have a definite penchant for ridiculous and nonsensical overstatement in your attempts at humor or snark I guess I shouldn't be surprised at its use.
The one thing I can say with assurance is that nobody anywhere will ever confuse my writing with your attempts to denigrate me. Even after years of torture being forced to listen non-stop to hypocritical, mindless, Un-Christian morons such as those leading the current incarnation of the right-wing in this country, I would never be capable of such gibberish. But, if you wish to insist on making yourself look ever more foolish, by all means (and in your own words), "knock yourself out." I'm not the one who looks bad here.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 4, 2015 20:29:25 GMT -5
Sorry, attacking was a bad word choice. Are you referring to two people here, or just Virgil? I had previously seen an earlier post referring to Richard also, and was a little confused. Not sure whose post the other one was from. I am not referring to anyone. On this Board, calling someone out is akin to attacking them and that is forbidden by the CoC.
Again . . . I was just wondering aloud what it would be like . . .
So......all those characteristics you contributed to....your wondering aloud? Those are all bad things? But? Being a bald-faced liar and, in my opinion, a total coward are ok? Interesting code of ethics there. Not saying "you"....just wondering aloud.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jun 4, 2015 20:47:04 GMT -5
Calling someone out is not forbidden by the CoC.
I called out RnB for referring to Jenner as an "It". I wasn't attacking RnB - I was being critical of his insulting/distasteful choice of words.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Jun 4, 2015 20:54:41 GMT -5
I am not referring to anyone. On this Board, calling someone out is akin to attacking them and that is forbidden by the CoC.
Again . . . I was just wondering aloud what it would be like . . .
So......all those characteristics you contributed to....your wondering aloud? Those are all bad things? But? Being a bald-faced liar and, in my opinion, a total coward are ok? Interesting code of ethics there. Not saying "you"....just wondering aloud. Huh?
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jun 4, 2015 20:55:07 GMT -5
I really have to get out more. My question would be: Where in kitten's post do you see a reference to Virgil? I've read it twice and I don't see it. I said I really have to get out more. I did not say I fell off the turnip truck. Post 689 Even a savant knows she was referring to Virgil, as she responded to his quote. Unless, she was not responding to the quote that she copied.......but I think even she would have a problem trying to deny that. Everything's good. She was only responding, and that's how it is in the land of Unicorns and Snow Leopards.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Jun 4, 2015 21:05:56 GMT -5
Imagine being a pompous, fundamentalist Richard who has a seeming compulsion to lecture the world on how they are damaged and delusional and evil and wrong and awkward and unattractive and conspicuous and just generally an all-around aberrance of nature who has no way to ever find happiness and peace EXCEPT that what they REALLY need to do is think and believe and act and behave like they do and fit some tight little fundamentalist mold that is determined by a small group of people in order to be an acceptable human being . I think I love you. I love you too, steff
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 4, 2015 21:39:51 GMT -5
My question would be: Where in kitten's post do you see a reference to Virgil? I've read it twice and I don't see it. I said I really have to get out more. I did not say I fell off the turnip truck. Post 689 Even a savant knows she was referring to Virgil, as she responded to his quote. Unless, she was not responding to the quote that she copied.......but I think even she would have a problem trying to deny that. Everything's good. She was only responding, and that's how it is in the land of Unicorns and Snow Leopards. I'm not sure it was a turnip truck but you must have fallen off of some truck, somewhere. There is nothing in that post that would tell you kitten was referring to Virgil. Do you think Virgil hasn't seen people (on TV, in the news, at his work, in his neighborhood) who would fit, at least, some of those descriptions? I'm going to bet you he has. Assumption never leads anywhere good, so I try to avoid it at all cost - and I don't live in a land of unicorns and snow leopards. If you do, it must be beautiful there.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 4, 2015 21:45:23 GMT -5
Virgil, you're keeping track? I'm not really surprised that you keep track of who peeked at whose posts. That's just creepy, man.
Get another hobby.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jun 4, 2015 21:45:47 GMT -5
Cmon, mmhmm, be real. She responded to his quote. When you "quote someone" you are responding to the quote. If one is not quoting they should not quote that person. Maybe we should add that to the list of do's and don'ts here
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jun 4, 2015 22:22:10 GMT -5
Cmon, mmhmm, be real. She responded to his quote. When you "quote someone" you are responding to the quote. If one is not quoting they should not quote that person. Maybe we should add that to the list of do's and don'ts here FWIW, I often quote people because of what's in the quote, not because I want to address that poster specifically. Sometimes I am responding, and sometimes I'm just using that quote to launch off an idea in it.
Did it today in fact. Picked one quote over another because I was tired of scrolling, and it had in it what I wanted to discuss. It was about the idea in the post, not the poster.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 4, 2015 23:02:03 GMT -5
Imagine being a pompous , fundamentalist Richard realist who has a seeming compulsion to lecture the world a message board on how they are Bruce Jenner is damaged and delusional , and evil and wrong , and awkward , and unattractive and conspicuous and just generally an all-around aberrance [sic] of nature who m has no way to ever reality dictates won't find happiness and peace . EXCEPT that What they Mr. Jenner REALLY need s to do is think and believe and act and behave like they do and fit some tight little fundamentalist mold get treatment, as with any other type of body dismorphism, that is determined administered by a small group of people , in order to be an acceptable human being not compound the problem. Just a few revisions, and you nailed it.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 4, 2015 23:12:07 GMT -5
There are men that grow an excess amount of breast tissue. Apparently this is very disturbing and often corrected with surgery. Should we judge them for having this done or should we tell them to just deal with the way their body is made? They have to live with the consequences of elective surgery, which aren't trivial. But seeing that the operation fixes a problem rather than making one worse, and that it's rooted in a rational desire to normalize one's appearance, we might countenance it on that basis.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 4, 2015 23:12:35 GMT -5
Cmon, mmhmm, be real. She responded to his quote. When you "quote someone" you are responding to the quote. If one is not quoting they should not quote that person. Maybe we should add that to the list of do's and don'ts here So? She responded to his quote, VB. Nowhere, however, did she mention Virgil. Sadly, it's you, at this point, who is attributing those particular traits to Virgil. While I'd agree one or two of them might fit, I don't think they all do. Therefore, I didn't jump to Virgil from what kitten said. You did.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 4, 2015 23:50:08 GMT -5
Cmon, mmhmm, be real. She responded to his quote. When you "quote someone" you are responding to the quote. If one is not quoting they should not quote that person. Maybe we should add that to the list of do's and don'ts here So? She responded to his quote, VB. Nowhere, however, did she mention Virgil. Sadly, it's you, at this point, who is attributing those particular traits to Virgil. While I'd agree one or two of them might fit, I don't think they all do. Therefore, I didn't jump to Virgil from what kitten said. You did. She quotes my post and raves about a "pompous fundamentalist [wiener]" lecturing the world on [insert item-for-item list of criticisms I just leveled at Mr. Jenner]. Posters are lining up to 'like' her putting the whammy on me. Steff is in love. Let's be careful about the precedent we set here. Otherwise the next time you post "I'm a vigilant as a hawk.", VB quotes your post, and he replies, "Imagine an official who's compelled to lecture the world on being vigilant as a hawk, but who in reality couldn't find her arse with both hands...", consistency will compel you to not assume he's talking about you or any other official here, and the comment will stand. I leave it up to you whether you want to set that precedent. Having said this... Value Buy: I'm in this thread to make a point, not to be liked. If posters want to make statements that (one might inadvertently assume) imply I'm a pompous Richard (and I think we can all appreciate the bit of comedy afforded by auto-censor screw-ups), I've ostensibly permitted it. I thank you for your advocacy, but you needn't bother in this thread. Just consider people to be venting at fundamentalist unicorns and snow leopards, as you say. Late, late. Tired.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jun 5, 2015 0:10:19 GMT -5
Imagine being a pompous , fundamentalist realist who has a seeming compulsion to lecture a message board on how Bruce Jenner is delusional , wrong , awkward , unattractive and conspicuous and who m reality dictates won't find happiness and peace . What Mr. Jenner REALLY need s to do is get treatment, as with any other type of body dismorphism, that is administered by a small group of people , in order to not compound the problem. Just a few revisions, and you nailed it. Even with your own revisions (and I trust you will forgive me for deleting the struck portions in the interest of clarity) one wonders why you feel the need to pontificate on the matter. Regardless how much you protest, I can in no way envision how this at all affects you. For anyone so afflicted as Mr. Jenner, I take them at their word that this is a major issue for them. It has to be, or they would not put themselves through the ordeal. They are not taking the easy way out. If this is what they feel they need to do, the best I can come up with is to wish them well, and hope it works out. Will it? I have no idea. It may for some. It may not for others. But it is entirely their choice to make.
The true difference between social liberals and social conservatives does not lie in which qualities or behaviors they find acceptable or deplorable. It is whether they are not only willing but think themselves correct and justified in denying individual liberties to others.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 5, 2015 0:25:16 GMT -5
Just a few revisions, and you nailed it. Even with your own revisions (and I trust you will forgive me for deleting the struck portions in the interest of clarity) one wonders why you feel the need to pontificate on the matter. Regardless how much you protest, I can in no way envision how this at all affects you. For anyone so afflicted as Mr. Jenner, I take them at their word that this is a major issue for them. It has to be, or they would not put themselves through the ordeal. They are not taking the easy way out. If this is what they feel they need to do, the best I can come up with is to wish them well, and hope it works out. Will it? I have no idea. It may for some. It may not for others. But it is entirely their choice to make.
The true difference between social liberals and social conservatives does not lie in which qualities or behaviors they find acceptable or deplorable. It is whether they are not only willing but think themselves correct and justified in denying individual liberties to others.
What liberty have I denied anyone? This is the Duggars thread redux, with pro and con sides flipped with respect to left and right. The Duggars jumped into the spotlight. The Duggars had doin's a-transpirin'. The topic came up for discussion. Countless people totally unaffected by the Duggars chipped in their $0.02 on what should have been done, what shouldn't have been done, what ought to have happened to the Duggars, etc., etc. Bruce Jenner jumped into the spotlight. Bruce Jenner had doin's a-transpirin'. The topic came up for discussion. Countless people totally unaffected by Bruce Jenner chipped in their $0.02 on what should have been done, what shouldn't have been done, what ought to have happened to Mr. Jenner, etc., etc. I don't recall if you were a part of the Duggars thread, but if so: lay off, and if not: go over there and bark at them for daring to present critical opinions on a message board. Because I assure you, all other things being equal, the posters in that thread would drive a steamroller over the Quiverfull cult and the "brainwashed slaves" therein sooner than I would ever drive a steamroller over Mr. Jenner's right to make a fool of himself. A message board is a forum for ideological debate, and we discuss issues both near and dear, and far removed. Deal with it.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 5, 2015 0:45:17 GMT -5
So? She responded to his quote, VB. Nowhere, however, did she mention Virgil. Sadly, it's you, at this point, who is attributing those particular traits to Virgil. While I'd agree one or two of them might fit, I don't think they all do. Therefore, I didn't jump to Virgil from what kitten said. You did. She quotes my post and raves about a "pompous fundamentalist [wiener]" lecturing the world on [insert item-for-item list of criticisms I just leveled at Mr. Jenner]. Posters are lining up to 'like' her putting the whammy on me. Steff is in love. Let's be careful about the precedent we set here. Otherwise the next time you post "I'm a vigilant as a hawk.", VB quotes your post, and he replies, "Imagine an official who's compelled to lecture the world on being vigilant as a hawk, but who in reality couldn't find her arse with both hands...", consistency will compel you to not assume he's talking about you or any other official here, and the comment will stand. I leave it up to you whether you want to set that precedent. Having said this... Value Buy: I'm in this thread to make a point, not to be liked. If posters want to make statements that (one might inadvertently assume) imply I'm a pompous Richard (and I think we can all appreciate the bit of comedy afforded by auto-censor screw-ups), I've ostensibly permitted it. I thank you for your advocacy, but you needn't bother in this thread. Just consider people to be venting at fundamentalist unicorns and snow leopards, as you say. Late, late. Tired. Sorry, Virgil. Maybe you identify yourself that way. I don't. As I said, some of it may apply. That's more for you to say than I. I don't feel it all applies. I do, however, know people to whom it would apply. Had kitten quoted a post of yours directly, my take might have been different. She didn't.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jun 5, 2015 1:04:15 GMT -5
They are in no way similar. The difference in the Duggars thread is criminal behavior with real victims, all encompassed by a hypocritical family who spent FAR more time and effort demonizing those they don't like while ignoring and then actively covering up the actual activities going on in their own home. Both the criminal behavior and the hypocrisy are worthy of discussion. And this latest attempt to justify themselves in the FOX interview is simply more fuel for the fire of their (deserved) self-destruction.
Bruce/Caitlyn is a troubled person, who after many years is trying to do whatever he needs to do to live his life in what he thinks is a better way FOR HIM/HER. There is no criminal behavior. There is no hypocrisy. There are no victims. Would it be better if he were not in the spotlight? Possibly. But he was in the spotlight well before this. It would be difficult to avoid that spotlight now, particularly with such a juicy subject for the media to latch onto. And, an argument could be made that any resultant publicity may help others deal with similar issues. Either way, it does no good to attack Mr./Ms. Jenner.
The second paragraph was more a general statement. It may not apply to you in this instance, but it could also be read into your criticisms of Mr. Jenner and your insistence on what he SHOULD do that you would prefer him not to have the choice to proceed as he is.
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steff
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Post by steff on Jun 5, 2015 1:31:38 GMT -5
I love her because she saves kitties and I adopted 2 shelter kitties last week. (see the anon thread in EE for my Mordy Buddy & Ahny the Princess) Plus her post reminded me of a song called Richard in the Dirt by Sammy Hagar. Which has turned earworm as the night has progressed. Good thing I love Sammy's music. See you just never know what someone is really thinking when they "like" a post. There have been a variety of posts I have liked on this & the Duggar thread sometimes for one simple part of an extensive post, sometimes because it makes me laugh, sometimes because I get on my soap box and scream "Damn Straight!" or "Dale Yeah" but no one here would know what that means. And sometimes because I think it hits the nail on the head. But only *I* know exactly why I liked a post. Crystal ball is a fail again for you. too bad, so sad. But if that shoe fits, wear that pump with pride!
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 5, 2015 7:32:31 GMT -5
They are in no way similar. The difference in the Duggars thread is criminal behavior with real victims, all encompassed by a hypocritical family who spent FAR more time and effort demonizing those they don't like while ignoring and then actively covering up the actual activities going on in their own home. Both the criminal behavior and the hypocrisy are worthy of discussion. And this latest attempt to justify themselves in the FOX interview is simply more fuel for the fire of their (deserved) self-destruction.
Bruce/Caitlyn is a troubled person, who after many years is trying to do whatever he needs to do to live his life in what he thinks is a better way FOR HIM/HER. There is no criminal behavior. There is no hypocrisy. There are no victims. Would it be better if he were not in the spotlight? Possibly. But he was in the spotlight well before this. It would be difficult to avoid that spotlight now, particularly with such a juicy subject for the media to latch onto. And, an argument could be made that any resultant publicity may help others deal with similar issues. Either way, it does no good to attack Mr./Ms. Jenner.
The second paragraph was more a general statement. It may not apply to you in this instance, but it could also be read into your criticisms of Mr. Jenner and your insistence on what he SHOULD do that you would prefer him not to have the choice to proceed as he is. A thoroughly bogus argument, my friend. The presence of criminal behaviour as a prerequisite for worthiness of discussion: absolutely not necessary; absolutely not relevant. The Duggar parents' hypocritical attitudes as a prerequisite: absolutely not relevant. "There are no victims.": There most certainly are victims. Mr. Jenner is a victim of his own foolishness. His children and grandchildren are a victim of his selfishness. Any individual inspired to emulate his example is a victim of society's glamourizing a terrible role model. "But he was in the spotlight well before this.": absolutely not relevant. "Both the criminal behavior and the hypocrisy are worthy of discussion.": As are the general merits/flaws in the Duggars' lifestyle, their doctrines, the practices of the Quiverfull cult, etc., etc. A good 40% of that thread has absolutely nothing to do with Josh Duggar's crime or hypocrisy, which is perfectly understandable seeing as you've pulled "criminality and hypocrisy" straight out of your rear as prerequisites for discussion/condemnation. I'll tell you what: if you want to withhold comment in any CE thread lacking some element of criminality and/or hypocrisy, I fully support you in doing that. Nothing we say in these threads changes anything or affects anyone except possibly refining the thinking of the writer and the readers. We know this. There are no prerequisites or caveats (besides general restraint when criticizing personal stories) for what "should" be discussed. This reality is evident to anyone who bothers to look at the spectrum of topics discussed here. Mr. Jenner is being held up as an exemplar of bravery, and bully on you if you think you can couch a "shut up and forever hold your piece" argument in one about the ineffectual nature of message board debate. Go beat your drum in front of the posters decrying the poor "brainwashed slaves" of the Quiverfull cult. Admonish them that their discussion is profitable for nothing and that it doesn't meet the criteria pulled fresh out of your rear, and let me know how that goes for you.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 5, 2015 8:03:11 GMT -5
This has not been an easy lesson for me over the last few years- starting with the whole gay marriage debate. I think it is a good one though. Can't we be tolerant, and yet at least as strong? Define 'tolerant' here. Smile and nod? Ignore the statistics, and the legion of psychologists pointing out that surgery doesn't fix the problem? Should we pretend that we consider Mr. Jenner's choice to be harmless and rational? Clap our hands as social media lights up with praise, and various special interest groups trip over themselves in their haste to hand him awards? Cater to the delusion? Well, Mr. Jenner, you were born and raised a man, you've fathered and grandfathered several children, but now you've chopped off your bits, put on a dress, and want to be called Grandma Jenner? I guess there's no harm in that... if we ignore virtually all of the research that's ever been done on the subject. ...and the fact that you haven't, in any conceivable biological sense, changed your sex. And you know what? If it's face to face with a stranger, I don't make hay. If an individual is born intersexed, deals with it in their youth, adopts a gender, commits to it, and doesn't lord it over people, I don't make hay. I commend such an individual for doing the right thing in trying circumstances. But Bruce "Vanity Fair" Jenner on a public message board? I'm not going to smile and nod. He's not a role model.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 5, 2015 8:16:45 GMT -5
It still begs the question was he also a transgender
I highly doubt Michael Jackson was transgendered. My guess is Jackson was a very mentally unstable man with a shitload of money. So he was able to find doctors who saw dollar signs and were willing to set aside their ethics and give him whatever he wanted.
Could Bruce Jenner have done the same? Possibly but I doubt it.
To be "officially" transgendered and qualify for hormones/surgery is very lengthy process. You must seen a special therapist for a long period of time and be diagnosed as transgendered. Then you must live as the opposite sex (dress in drag basically) for X amount of time, then take hormones for X amount of time.
Then there aren't a ton of surgeons who will do the surgeries and there are serious ethical concerns involved. You can't just walk in and say you want your penis/boobs lopped off so you can live as the opposite sex.
I can't imagine there are people who do all that just so they can gain access to the ladies restroom to oogle or get free drinks at bars.
I attended a lecture in college that was hosted by the LBGT community and it was given by a transgendered person (male to female) it was extremely enlightening. I'd covered the topic in my social science classes but it was totally different to listen to someone whose lived it.
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 5, 2015 8:18:41 GMT -5
Just for the record: Ms. Jenner has not "chopped off" her "bits". Her male bits are still dangling.
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mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 5, 2015 8:19:41 GMT -5
Cmon, mmhmm, be real. She responded to his quote. When you "quote someone" you are responding to the quote. If one is not quoting they should not quote that person. Maybe we should add that to the list of do's and don'ts here FWIW, I often quote people because of what's in the quote, not because I want to address that poster specifically. Sometimes I am responding, and sometimes I'm just using that quote to launch off an idea in it.
Did it today in fact. Picked one quote over another because I was tired of scrolling, and it had in it what I wanted to discuss. It was about the idea in the post, not the poster.
I do the same, Opti. So, I've noticed, do quite a few others.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 5, 2015 8:36:24 GMT -5
Ms. Jenner has not "chopped off" her "bits". Her male bits are still dangling.
I wasn't saying he did. The impression seems to be that anyone can just announce they want to be female (or male) for any random reason they please, walk into a hospital and get surgery.
That's not how it works, at least if you are going to an ethical hospital and seeing an ethical doctor. It is a very long intense process to get to the point where you qualify for the type of plastic surgery and therapies Jenner has had.
I learn a lot by watching Botched.
There is a lot of psychological screening that goes on before you can get to the point Jenner is. I am sure the experts are able to screen out the people who are doing it so they can sneak into the ladies restroom.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Jun 5, 2015 8:36:30 GMT -5
Just for the record: Ms. Jenner has not "chopped off" her "bits". Her male bits are still dangling. Indeed. Which is why people still use either "he" or "she" pronouns. The transition is complete when all the surgery is completed and the legal paperwork that contains a gender identification is changed. That is what my transgender friends tell me makes it all final and legal. I fully understand that in Jenner's mind, it's "she," and I don't mean any slight by still using "he." I'm just keeping it legal.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 5, 2015 8:40:14 GMT -5
The transition is complete when all the surgery is completed
From the lecture I attended there is apparently a debate about this in the transgendered community. The reason being the surgery is expensive since insurance often doesn't cover it and risky, especially if you are transitioning from female to male.
So there is a raging debate about whether you can use the label if you haven't had gender corrective surgery. Some feel you can't and others feel that is a personal choice and if that's the only thing you haven't done you should still be able to call yourself transgendered.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 5, 2015 8:41:05 GMT -5
I think it's pretty apparent that no one is going to change their mind over it the situation or others like it.
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