happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 4, 2015 10:09:14 GMT -5
Oh god. If you get a good lobster roll at a legit local place.... Where in MA will you be? All I'll say is CLAM CHOWDAH. If you'll be on the North shore shoot me a PM and I can recommend some spots. I'm auditing one of our facilities outside Boston - kind of south/west. I'm going with two business colleagues that I hope like seafood, and I'm hoping the facility we're visiting can direct us to some good places - I could eat seafood every day, if my colleagues allow. I did have the chowdah north of Boston a couple years ago on an earlier business trip, and it was excellent - I imagine that is a varied across NE as chili is across the South. The steamers and mussels sound interesting - I love escargot in butter (not a seafood, but somewhat shaped like seafood).
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jun 4, 2015 10:12:25 GMT -5
that's definitely going to put you closer to me than to cael. if you want some specific suggestions, let me know
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 4, 2015 10:13:44 GMT -5
Oh god. If you get a good lobster roll at a legit local place.... Where in MA will you be? All I'll say is CLAM CHOWDAH. If you'll be on the North shore shoot me a PM and I can recommend some spots. I'm auditing one of our facilities outside Boston - kind of south/west. I'm going with two business colleagues that I hope like seafood, and I'm hoping the facility we're visiting can direct us to some good places - I could eat seafood every day, if my colleagues allow. I did have the chowdah north of Boston a couple years ago on an earlier business trip, and it was excellent - I imagine that is a varied across NE as chili is across the South. The steamers and mussels sound interesting - I love escargot in butter (not a seafood, but somewhat shaped like seafood). Easy to make at home. I do.
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cael
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Post by cael on Jun 4, 2015 10:14:59 GMT -5
Now I'm feeling like trekking out for chowdah for lunch today but I'm just too lazy to go anywhere that isn't directly downstairs from the office...
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milee
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Post by milee on Jun 4, 2015 10:20:37 GMT -5
Of course each club is different, but if it's like the YC I belong to they'll welcome Caitlyn after they get over the initial awkwardness of how to change their view of someone they've previously only known a certain way. We're not in an especially progressive, liberal area (SW Florida - note, SW, not Miami) and our club specifically welcomes, accepts and includes gay couples - even down to including language like that in the club bylaws that the members voted on. I do not know if we have any transgender members because I do not know 99.9% of the other members' personal genital history, but from what I've seen regarding how the club handles gays and nontraditional members/families, transgender members would be welcome as well.
YCs can be a hotbed of petty gossip, snobbery and (horrible but true) racism, but it's not considered acceptable to be homophobic or narrow minded. YC members are more likely to judge each other on who's tacky or who has poor boat handling skills.
True, but the fact that I have a penis makes me inherently better at driving a car...wouldn't the same apply for boats as well? Definitely.
We just had this discussion in my sailboat racing forum. A new owner asked how you get unstuck if you run aground. I explained that the process is different depending on if you're a male skipper sailing with men or a female skipper sailing mostly with women.
If you're a female skipper sailing mostly with women, when you run aground, first you and your crew talk about it for a while. What happened, how it happened, what we're going to do, etc. Then, you get the keel bulb out of the sand it's buried in by heeling the boat to one side. This is done by getting all your crew on one side and pulling on the lines to tilt the entire boat; but since you're all women and weigh about 120 each on average, you're not heavy enough to get the boat to lean far enough without some creativity. So you convince one of the crew to get on the shoulders of another crew to get the weight further out. While this is happening, you need to first ignore then smile and wave to the boats passing by and offering you assistance; telling them that you're fine and have it under control. Once the keel bulb is free, you sail backwards and go about your merry way. When you get ashore, you tell everybody you ran aground and make sure they know where since this is a shallow spot that shouldn't be in the channel and they might hit it, too.
If you're a guy, you don't ever run aground. Apparently, you either "bump" something or "hit a manatee." I'm not totally sure because the guys who have described it seem to mumble something and then change the subject. But I'm guessing when this happens, you just wait for the manatee to move. Easy peasy.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 4, 2015 10:21:06 GMT -5
Well, technically she is still a he, and he says he "likes" women, so....... It's all good with the members committee. I wonder how many members will embrace the new lifestyle, or let Ms. Jenner know how they really feel and hurt her feelings. Of course each club is different, but if it's like the YC I belong to they'll welcome Caitlyn after they get over the initial awkwardness of how to change their view of someone they've previously only known a certain way. We're not in an especially progressive, liberal area (SW Florida - note, SW, not Miami) and our club specifically welcomes, accepts and includes gay couples - even down to including language like that in the club bylaws that the members voted on. I do not know if we have any transgender members because I do not know 99.9% of the other members' personal genital history, but from what I've seen regarding how the club handles gays and nontraditional members/families, transgender members would be welcome as well.
YCs can be a hotbed of petty gossip, snobbery and (horrible but true) racism, but it's not considered acceptable to be homophobic or narrow minded. YC members are more likely to judge each other on who's tacky or who has poor boat handling skills.
wait, so it's more acceptable to be racist than homophobic?
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milee
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Post by milee on Jun 4, 2015 10:21:49 GMT -5
Of course each club is different, but if it's like the YC I belong to they'll welcome Caitlyn after they get over the initial awkwardness of how to change their view of someone they've previously only known a certain way. We're not in an especially progressive, liberal area (SW Florida - note, SW, not Miami) and our club specifically welcomes, accepts and includes gay couples - even down to including language like that in the club bylaws that the members voted on. I do not know if we have any transgender members because I do not know 99.9% of the other members' personal genital history, but from what I've seen regarding how the club handles gays and nontraditional members/families, transgender members would be welcome as well.
YCs can be a hotbed of petty gossip, snobbery and (horrible but true) racism, but it's not considered acceptable to be homophobic or narrow minded. YC members are more likely to judge each other on who's tacky or who has poor boat handling skills.
wait, so it's more acceptable to be racist than homophobic? Weird, but true.
I'm friends with our one black member and that's his take on it - I don't disagree.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 4, 2015 10:26:15 GMT -5
I'm auditing one of our facilities outside Boston - kind of south/west. I'm going with two business colleagues that I hope like seafood, and I'm hoping the facility we're visiting can direct us to some good places - I could eat seafood every day, if my colleagues allow. I did have the chowdah north of Boston a couple years ago on an earlier business trip, and it was excellent - I imagine that is a varied across NE as chili is across the South. The steamers and mussels sound interesting - I love escargot in butter (not a seafood, but somewhat shaped like seafood). Easy to make at home. I do. You don't catch them in the garden yourself, do you? I would need them already dead and shell-less.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 4, 2015 11:10:56 GMT -5
I don't know. Society invests a lot of time and expense in training doctors. Seems like maybe there is more important work for them to be doing rather than sucking fat out of celebrities? So, are you saying that people shouldn't spend their money the way they want to? Or that doctors should be forced to only perform cardiac, neuro, orthopedic, etc., surgery by the government? You want plastic surgery outlawed?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 4, 2015 11:17:47 GMT -5
I don't know. Society invests a lot of time and expense in training doctors. Seems like maybe there is more important work for them to be doing rather than sucking fat out of celebrities? So, are you saying that people shouldn't spend their money the way they want to? Or that doctors should be forced to only perform cardiac, neuro, orthopedic, etc., surgery by the government? You want plastic surgery outlawed?
Free market and all that. But it is maddening that a rural area like mine has a really hard time attracting medical providers, but there are a ton of plastic surgeons in Hollywood doing fuck all.
But, after seeing what they've done to some people, maybe they should just stay there.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 4, 2015 11:44:06 GMT -5
So, are you saying that people shouldn't spend their money the way they want to? Or that doctors should be forced to only perform cardiac, neuro, orthopedic, etc., surgery by the government? You want plastic surgery outlawed?
Free market and all that. But it is maddening that a rural area like mine has a really hard time attracting medical providers, but there are a ton of plastic surgeons in Hollywood doing fuck all.
But, after seeing what they've done to some people, maybe they should just stay there.
I understand that, but there's a hell of a lot more money to be made as a plastic surgeon vs. a GP. If someone put that much time, money and effort into their education, they should choose the specialty they want. What we do is pay doctors more to do stints in remote areas. (or pay them up to 30% less if they refuse).Just about all of them do it for a while. My niece worked for 6 months in the far north. It does make sense, seeing as how the public heavily subsidizes their education. You don't pay much for your medical degree, but you have to give something back.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 4, 2015 11:48:18 GMT -5
Free market and all that. But it is maddening that a rural area like mine has a really hard time attracting medical providers, but there are a ton of plastic surgeons in Hollywood doing fuck all.
But, after seeing what they've done to some people, maybe they should just stay there.
I understand that, but there's a hell of a lot more money to be made as a plastic surgeon vs. a GP. If someone put that much time, money and effort into their education, they should choose the specialty they want. What we do is pay doctors more to do stints in remote areas. (or pay them up to 30% less if they refuse).Just about all of them do it for a while. My niece worked for 6 months in the far north. It does make sense, seeing as how the public heavily subsidizes their education. You don't pay much for your medical degree, but you have to give something back.
remember that a lot of us are in America... med school is not subsidized by the public.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jun 4, 2015 11:49:33 GMT -5
I understand that, but there's a hell of a lot more money to be made as a plastic surgeon vs. a GP. If someone put that much time, money and effort into their education, they should choose the specialty they want. What we do is pay doctors more to do stints in remote areas. (or pay them up to 30% less if they refuse).Just about all of them do it for a while. My niece worked for 6 months in the far north. It does make sense, seeing as how the public heavily subsidizes their education. You don't pay much for your medical degree, but you have to give something back.
remember that a lot of us are in America... med school is not subsidized by the public. It is still subsidized - especially the clinical portion - just not as much as in Canada.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 4, 2015 11:56:57 GMT -5
I understand that, but there's a hell of a lot more money to be made as a plastic surgeon vs. a GP. If someone put that much time, money and effort into their education, they should choose the specialty they want. What we do is pay doctors more to do stints in remote areas. (or pay them up to 30% less if they refuse).Just about all of them do it for a while. My niece worked for 6 months in the far north. It does make sense, seeing as how the public heavily subsidizes their education. You don't pay much for your medical degree, but you have to give something back.
remember that a lot of us are in America... med school is not subsidized by the public. Yes, that's why I said that it's what WE do. It's how WE deal with the problem. Doctors don't want to work in rural and remote areas. In any country.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 4, 2015 12:00:05 GMT -5
remember that a lot of us are in America... med school is not subsidized by the public. Yes, that's why I said that it's what WE do. It's how WE deal with the problem. Doctors don't want to work in rural and remote areas. In any country.
We get most of our docs out of Canada. They want to work for the "big American bucks," which are peanuts compared to an urban center.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 4, 2015 12:07:26 GMT -5
Yes, that's why I said that it's what WE do. It's how WE deal with the problem. Doctors don't want to work in rural and remote areas. In any country.
We get most of our docs out of Canada. They want to work for the "big American bucks," which are peanuts compared to an urban center. I always found that odd, because our doctors make about the same as yours do. When you factor in paying back student debts, administrative costs for insurance paperwork, sky-high malpractice costs, the salaries are very similar. Naturally, a plastic surgeon in Hollywood can make money hand over fist.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2015 12:25:10 GMT -5
No, I'm saying what you're saying - - that gender identity is mostly a matter of pre-natal biological formation. It is the almost-automatic "social constructs" we place on gender that can be tricky. What's the first question we all ask when a baby is born? We want to know its gender so we have a social and cultural framework for relating to it. When we hear "it's a boy," most of us have an automatic set of assumptions that go with it. But just because a baby is visually born with male genitalia does not mean the baby identifies with being Male. That comes later - and sometimes it doesn't come at all (or it comes on with a vengeance of testosterone). There are all those other medical (chemical/hormonal/chromosomal) factors at work.
If you peruse any academically sound, graduate-level textbook on Human Sexuality (or medical school texts on the same subject), you will learn that all fetuses essentially begin as female (the testes/ovaries are undifferentiated). It is a rush of male hormones as triggered by DNA that turns undifferentiated reproductive organs into male organs - - and male genitalia development begins. But you will also read (and see in photos) that A LOT can go wrong along the way. Way more babies than you would think (but still a small percentage) are born hermaphroditic or with hermaphroditic characteristics because something went chemically/hormonally "wrong" at a critical time along the way to differentiation. Doctors - God love them! - are quick to want to do surgery to spare parents and their children the social stigma that comes along with being "different." So in the past, many quick surgeries were done based on visual inspection of a baby's genitalia so that parents could go home with a "normal" child. And sometimes their guesses were wrong. Today DNA testing can be readily done to determine gender instead of the former visual guess.
All of which is to say that it is the "stuff" we can't see that determines gender identity, not just the organs we're born with and the social/cultural assumptions that come with it. Make sense, yes/no?
Coming out of lurkerdome to say thank you to Kittensaver for the science in this post. I am an intersexed person (born with ambiguous genitalia). I am not a hermaphrodite. That word is no longer used by the medical community because most intersexed conditions result from the incomplete masculanisation described by Kittensaver. We don't have both sets of genitals, we have genitals somewhere in between male and female. The medical community now uses "disorders of sexual development" to describe people like me. I choose intersexed because I believe I am blessed with male and female qualities, not that I am "disordered." I have had genital surgery, but I was lucky enough to have parents that waited until just before I hit puberty to let me make that choice. The surgery I had was medically necessary. If you saw me on the street, you would assume I was a female, which is how I live my life from a cultural standpoint. In reality, hormonally, biologically and emotionally, I am am in between the sexes, or intersexed. Strange as it may seem, I consider myself one of the lucky ones. Understanding men and women as I do is a huge benefit in the workplace. Being androgenic allows me to stay lean while eating like a horse and allows me to put on muscle easily. I don't want children, and I am not able to have them. In addition, while I am married to a straight man, I don't really have to worry about my sexual identity. I could partner with anyone and not have it impact my identity, since I don't have a gender binary identity. Identity is highly personal. I get why some posters want to subscribe to the gender binary that we have culturally constructed, and I obviously get why others have chosen to have a view that includes people outside that cultural construction. Finally, I fully support the standpoint that modern tolerance only applies to those of us who are different. It makes sense that straight people with kids want to have straight children who also have kids. It is just easier to relate to those who are like us, which is why it is such a blessing for me to be both masculine an feminine. Welcome and thanks for sharing your story. I have a family member like you. She also lives as a woman but unlike you her parents were encouraged to choose for her when she was still a toddler. This was almost 50 years ago. She is happy with their choice thankfully and is one of the most beautiful women I know both inside and out.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Jun 4, 2015 12:27:44 GMT -5
We get most of our docs out of Canada. They want to work for the "big American bucks," which are peanuts compared to an urban center. I always found that odd, because our doctors make about the same as yours do. When you factor in paying back student debts, administrative costs for insurance paperwork, sky-high malpractice costs, the salaries are very similar. Naturally, a plastic surgeon in Hollywood can make money hand over fist.
Hospital employee and loan forgiveness = none of the overhead costs and don't have to pay the loans.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 4, 2015 12:43:30 GMT -5
I always found that odd, because our doctors make about the same as yours do. When you factor in paying back student debts, administrative costs for insurance paperwork, sky-high malpractice costs, the salaries are very similar. Naturally, a plastic surgeon in Hollywood can make money hand over fist.
Hospital employee and loan forgiveness = none of the overhead costs and don't have to pay the loans. I'm not following. If you work in a hospital, you don't have to pay back student loans?
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jun 4, 2015 12:45:41 GMT -5
I actually just read an article where someone claims that in the spirit of empowering transgender individuals, and the fact that Bruce/Caitlynn claims to have always identified as a woman, that the IOC should consider revoking the Decathlon medal won by Bruce. The rationale is that women and men are not allowed to compete in the opposing gender's events...and if Bruce has always identified as a woman, she should not have been allowed to participate against men. That, in effect, she was breaking the rules if she knew she was a woman and still decided to compete in a man's event.
A little interesting only in that I wonder what this means for governing bodies like the IOC which actually have these kinds of rules about men and women competing separately, and what specific trait they use to determine gender.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 4, 2015 12:47:46 GMT -5
I actually just read an article where someone claims that in the spirit of empowering transgender individuals, and the fact that Bruce/Caitlynn claims to have always identified as a woman, that the IOC should consider revoking the Decathlon medal won by Bruce. The rationale is that women and men are not allowed to compete in the opposing gender's events...and if Bruce has always identified as a woman, she should not have been allowed to participate against men. That, in effect, she was breaking the rules if she knew she was a woman and still decided to compete in a man's event. A little interesting only in that I wonder what this means for governing bodies like the IOC which actually have these kinds of rules about men and women competing separately, and what specific trait they use to determine gender. That's absurd, as he was a physical male at the time.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Jun 4, 2015 12:56:08 GMT -5
I actually just read an article where someone claims that in the spirit of empowering transgender individuals, and the fact that Bruce/Caitlynn claims to have always identified as a woman, that the IOC should consider revoking the Decathlon medal won by Bruce. The rationale is that women and men are not allowed to compete in the opposing gender's events ...and if Bruce has always identified as a woman, she should not have been allowed to participate against men. That, in effect, she was breaking the rules if she knew she was a woman and still decided to compete in a man's event.
A little interesting only in that I wonder what this means for governing bodies like the IOC which actually have these kinds of rules about men and women competing separately, and what specific trait they use to determine gender. This ^ ^ ^ (bolded above) just shows complete ignorance (lack of knowledge) about transgendered persons.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jun 4, 2015 12:58:31 GMT -5
I actually just read an article where someone claims that in the spirit of empowering transgender individuals, and the fact that Bruce/Caitlynn claims to have always identified as a woman, that the IOC should consider revoking the Decathlon medal won by Bruce. The rationale is that women and men are not allowed to compete in the opposing gender's events...and if Bruce has always identified as a woman, she should not have been allowed to participate against men. That, in effect, she was breaking the rules if she knew she was a woman and still decided to compete in a man's event. A little interesting only in that I wonder what this means for governing bodies like the IOC which actually have these kinds of rules about men and women competing separately, and what specific trait they use to determine gender. That's absurd, as he was a physical male at the time. When does someone stop becoming a physical male...if they ever were though? That's kind of the question. Does what you "identify" with matter...or is it purely a matter of biology (and if so, which biology...physical? chemical? birth?). I mean cut off his penis and testicals, give him a human-fabricated "vagina", but it's not a real vagina anymore than someone with an eyeball glued to their hand has a 3rd eye. What determines gender?
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Jun 4, 2015 13:03:46 GMT -5
I understand that, but there's a hell of a lot more money to be made as a plastic surgeon vs. a GP. If someone put that much time, money and effort into their education, they should choose the specialty they want. What we do is pay doctors more to do stints in remote areas. (or pay them up to 30% less if they refuse).Just about all of them do it for a while. My niece worked for 6 months in the far north. It does make sense, seeing as how the public heavily subsidizes their education. You don't pay much for your medical degree, but you have to give something back.
remember that a lot of us are in America... med school is not subsidized by the public. Well, the funding for residency programs here comes from Medicare, so the public does have a stake in medical education. There are X amount of residency spots and Y amount of MGs, and the federal funding has not changed since the 90s. Getting matched into a residency program is competitive enough, but getting into one of the big specialties (plastic surgery, dermatology, orthopedics, and gynecology) is crazy fierce competition.
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kittensaver
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We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
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Post by kittensaver on Jun 4, 2015 13:06:52 GMT -5
That's absurd, as he was a physical male at the time. When does someone stop becoming a physical male...if they ever were though? That's kind of the question. Does what you "identify" with matter...or is it purely a matter of biology (and if so, which biology...physical? chemical? birth?). I mean cut off his penis and testicals, give him a human-fabricated "vagina", but it's not a real vagina anymore than someone with an eyeball glued to their hand has a 3rd eye. What determines gender?Read Post #583
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 4, 2015 13:08:06 GMT -5
That's absurd, as he was a physical male at the time. When does someone stop becoming a physical male...if they ever were though? That's kind of the question. Does what you "identify" with matter...or is it purely a matter of biology (and if so, which biology...physical? chemical? birth?). I mean cut off his penis and testicals, give him a human-fabricated "vagina", but it's not a real vagina anymore than someone with an eyeball glued to their hand has a 3rd eye. What determines gender? Maybe when you start getting hormone treatments to suppress muscle growth and testosterone levels? This is only in terms of competition. When he was still a he and in the Olympics, I'm pretty sure he wasn't getting hormone treatments. It was a level playing field. No unfair advantages or disadvantages.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 4, 2015 13:10:45 GMT -5
Aside from competitive sports, if you feel you're a female in daily life, then you're a female as far as I'm concerned.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Jun 4, 2015 13:19:55 GMT -5
Hospital employee and loan forgiveness = none of the overhead costs and don't have to pay the loans. I'm not following. If you work in a hospital, you don't have to pay back student loans? If you work in an underserved area/public service, you may qualify for loan forgiveness. You pay the minimum, interest only payments until your time is served, then the loan disappears.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 4, 2015 13:25:06 GMT -5
I'm not following. If you work in a hospital, you don't have to pay back student loans? If you work in an underserved area/public service, you may qualify for loan forgiveness. You pay the minimum, interest only payments until your time is served, then the loan disappears. How much time is "time served"? I know a medical degree from a prestigious medical school can be a quarter million dollars. It all just goes away?
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 4, 2015 13:38:41 GMT -5
a) 10 years or 120 payments while employed at a qualifying public service job; b) they pay 10% of "disposable income" (10% of [AGI minus 150% of the poverty level for their state]) toward the loans for this period; c) any remainder is discharged.
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