Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2015 13:30:34 GMT -5
Lol. You think the bible is nuanced on pork, but explicit on 'homosexuality'? That is correct. Specifically, acts that I would call "homosexuality". And it really doesn't matter what I call them. Just so you understand it's you calling. The bible never calls it that. The word some people translate that as has only been translated that way in recent history, is not translated that way in all bibles and the original word was never used to denote anything akin to 'homosexuality' in Greek culture, despite the Greeks being very familiar with the concept.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 3, 2015 13:34:09 GMT -5
There is a scriptural argument against transgenderism (or rather, certain behaviours associated with it, and it's extremely important to mind which ones) but monkeys will fly out my rear before I make it on this board. I don't doubt there is. But you are continuing to prove my point that is not religion that shapes your argument. I suppose not. Scripture is consistent with my (rationalist) objections, and that's all I care about in this case.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 3, 2015 13:37:57 GMT -5
I don't doubt there is. But you are continuing to prove my point that is not religion that shapes your argument. I suppose not. Scripture is consistent with my (rationalist) objections, and that's all I care about in this case. I don't see you railing against haircuts and mixed fiber clothes either.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 3, 2015 13:39:33 GMT -5
The translation issues are what get me. I am not gifted whatsoever in foreign languages, and the class I took on Middle English in college was very challenging -- and that was still English! Given the number of translations any modern English Bible has gone through (not to mention the natural evolution of language and changing meaning of words -- "gay" is a good example, or "molest" as in bother vs. sexually assault), I find it hard to believe that all of the activities allegedly prohibited by the Bible were intended to be interpreted as they are today.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 3, 2015 13:44:44 GMT -5
I don't doubt there is. But you are continuing to prove my point that is not religion that shapes your argument. I suppose not. Scripture is consistent with my (rationalist) objections, and that's all I care about in this case. Regardless of whether being transgendered is something that goes against Christianity (or any other religion) can we agree that, if someone has the money to do it, and the will to do it, and believes it will improve their life, there should be no reason why they can't do it? Jenner isn't taking public money (well, unless you count the money he scammed from the public by participating in those ridiculous reality shows) and it's up to him to work things out with his friends and family. IMHO, it doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks, anymore than it matters what I think about someone with studs in their face, or tattoos, or hair in unnatural colors. My hair is getting grey, so I dye it to it's original color. I don't care what the Koran or Bible or Mormon tablets say about hair dying. I don't care what anyone else thinks about it (except DH). It makes me happy and I can afford to do it. Why don't we agree that we should be just as indifferent to Ms Jenner's current look.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jun 3, 2015 13:46:43 GMT -5
So you dislike the reason that the other person uses for disliking that person? What business is it of yours for why they dislike them? That sounds very intolerant. There is a difference of not liking a person, and not liking any person that associates with or could be part of a certain group. And yet, there seems be groups that are OK to dislike in their entirety. Nazi and KKK comes to mind
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 3, 2015 13:46:53 GMT -5
That is correct. Specifically, acts that I would call "homosexuality". And it really doesn't matter what I call them. Just so you understand it's you calling. The bible never calls it that. The word some people translate that as has only been translated that was in recent history, is not translated that way in all bibles and the original word was never used to denote anything akin to 'homosexuality' in Greek culture, despite the Greeks being very familiar with the concept. I know the words used in the Hebrew in the Greek, the scriptures in which they're used, the contexts in which they're used, the ways in which the words were used in other Greek and Hebrew writings of the time, and the litany of ways scholars try to reason around them. I am convicted of the correctness of "my" interpretation, the observable consequences of homosexuality compound my surety, and if I'm wrong, I'll have to answer to God Himself. For a thread about Bruce Jenner on a secularist message board: enough said.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 3, 2015 13:47:02 GMT -5
The translation issues are what get me. I am not gifted whatsoever in foreign languages, and the class I took on Middle English in college was very challenging -- and that was still English! Given the number of translations any modern English Bible has gone through (not to mention the natural evolution of language and changing meaning of words -- "gay" is a good example, or "molest" as in bother vs. sexually assault), I find it hard to believe that all of the activities allegedly prohibited by the Bible were intended to be interpreted as they are today. Some of the earlier versions of the Bible included references to unicorns, which were subsequently translated as 'wild ass' or 'wild goat.' Language is a slippery thing, especially over the course of two millennia.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jun 3, 2015 13:49:00 GMT -5
That opinion is not valid to think I liked you!!!! No worries, MJ, I used to like her too and then she went and said something about people who like mayo. That was the end of my love affair with her
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 3, 2015 13:52:29 GMT -5
Please leave pork alone. . Also, I have heard two ideas about pork. One was because of the lack of sanitation or refrigeration in biblical times so not eating "dirty" animals who could carry disease made for a healthier species. Also not mixing meat and dairy kept people healthy too
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jun 3, 2015 13:55:17 GMT -5
Just so you understand it's you calling. The bible never calls it that. The word some people translate that as has only been translated that was in recent history, is not translated that way in all bibles and the original word was never used to denote anything akin to 'homosexuality' in Greek culture, despite the Greeks being very familiar with the concept. I know the words used in the Hebrew in the Greek, the scriptures in which they're used, the contexts in which they're used, the ways in which the words were used in other Greek and Hebrew writings of the time, and the litany of ways scholars try to reason around them. I am convicted of the correctness of "my" interpretation, the observable consequences of homosexuality compound my surety, and if I'm wrong, I'll have to answer to God Himself. For a thread about Bruce Jenner on a secularist message board: enough said. I know typos, etc. happen often but can all posters for the rest of the thread please use convinced instead of convicted?
Thanks!
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 3, 2015 14:01:08 GMT -5
There is a scriptural argument against transgenderism (or rather, certain behaviours associated with it, and it's extremely important to mind which ones) but monkeys will fly out my rear before I make it on this board. I don't doubt there is. But you are continuing to prove my point that it is not religion that shapes your argument. look at you making meaningful contributions!
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jun 3, 2015 14:03:28 GMT -5
I don't doubt there is. But you are continuing to prove my point that it is not religion that shapes your argument. look at you making meaningful contributions! Sometimes I am more than just an incredibly good looking face.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2015 14:12:40 GMT -5
Carp. I just lost a long post on non procreative sex. Start with St Augustine and Aquinas.
Sodomy originally referred to all non procreative acts, even between married men and women.
Oh, and Martin Luther. And look up 'missionary position'
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Jun 3, 2015 14:15:15 GMT -5
Yet you are still here, wagons circling, fire-tipped arrows flying all around you. Oh, and to see the whole flying-monkey-butt things, we'd probably each chip in a few bucks. If you could make your head spin and smoke come out of your ears at the same time, that would be pretty awesome, too.
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Jun 3, 2015 14:15:40 GMT -5
to think I liked you!!!! No worries, MJ, I used to like her too and then she went and said something about people who like mayo. That was the end of my love affair with her I'm a heartbreaker by nature!
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 3, 2015 14:18:18 GMT -5
I was going to say that, with my very strong craving for meat right now, I might eat them. Then I saw the part about them coming out of your rear....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2015 14:20:51 GMT -5
Would my opinion of a person be influenced by their choosing to actively involve themselves in a group like the KKK or Aryan or Westboro which embrace certain beliefs and actions...
Yeah.
How is that the same as hating a Jew or Black person or Woman... Someone born into a group which, despite certain beliefs, is not homogenous in mission or behavior?
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jun 3, 2015 14:24:43 GMT -5
No worries, MJ, I used to like her too and then she went and said something about people who like mayo. That was the end of my love affair with her I'm a heartbreaker by nature! I can tolerate your intolerance towards mayo as long as you are not rude to me about my love of it.
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Jun 3, 2015 14:25:55 GMT -5
I'm a heartbreaker by nature! I can tolerate your intolerance towards mayo as long as you are not rude to me about my love of it. I'm actually not a fan of any of the classic condiments. You can do as you like with them
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 3, 2015 14:34:40 GMT -5
I can tolerate your intolerance towards mayo as long as you are not rude to me about my love of it. I'm actually not a fan of any of the classic condiments. You can do as you like with them but tell me you like BBQ sauce....
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Jun 3, 2015 14:35:44 GMT -5
I'm actually not a fan of any of the classic condiments. You can do as you like with them but tell me you like BBQ sauce.... no
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jun 3, 2015 14:36:40 GMT -5
I can tolerate your intolerance towards mayo as long as you are not rude to me about my love of it. I'm actually not a fan of any of the classic condiments. You can do as you like with them Yay! More for me!
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 3, 2015 14:42:24 GMT -5
but tell me you like BBQ sauce.... no
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fatbear
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Post by fatbear on Jun 3, 2015 14:52:13 GMT -5
Please leave pork alone. . Also, I have heard two ideas about pork. One was because of the lack of sanitation or refrigeration in biblical times so not eating "dirty" animals who could carry disease made for a healthier species. Also not mixing meat and dairy kept people healthy too I thought it had to do with the risk of getting tape worms if the pork was insufficiently cooked.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 3, 2015 15:01:32 GMT -5
but tell me you like BBQ sauce.... no Nope. Me, neither.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 3, 2015 15:03:22 GMT -5
Why do we wear clothes? I am sure we would say to protect us from the cold or the sun, but on perfectly nice days people still wear clothes.
If we changed the law so you could go anywhere, any time without any clothes on, how would you feel about it? Would you be embarrassed, or threatened? Would you think looking at some people would be unpleasant? Would you fear for your children to just go around with it all hanging out? Would you assume that molestation and rape would increase because creepy guys are now not wearing pants? Would this be a positive or negative thing for our society?
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jun 3, 2015 15:09:00 GMT -5
Why do we wear clothes? I am sure we would say to protect us from the cold or the sun, but on perfectly nice days people still wear clothes. If we changed the law so you could go anywhere, any time without any clothes on, how would you feel about it? Would you be embarrassed, or threatened? Would you think looking at some people would be unpleasant? Would you fear for your children to just go around with it all hanging out? Would you assume that molestation and rape would increase because creepy guys are now not wearing pants? Would this be a positive or negative thing for our society? I'd dip my balls in everything. Just like Louis.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 3, 2015 15:26:38 GMT -5
What do you think that whole kosher thing is? Something Jews have to worry about ...I knew I didn't like Jews Did you mean to post a "just kidding!" emoticon with this, or is it for real and for true?
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 3, 2015 15:27:52 GMT -5
but tell me you like BBQ sauce.... no Them's fightin' words here in the South! Only let me be clear that only the TN tomato based sauce is acceptable, none of that South Carolina mustard based baby poop sauce, and none of abomination that Texas does to their meat and then calls BBQ. And don't get me started on that straight-from-hell alien life form that is a McDonald's McRibb - I'm pretty sure that's some soylent green shit dipped in ketchup sweetened with left over candy corn and peeps. Talk all you want about Biblical sin and men laying with men you want - but DO NOT talk shit about BBQ sauce.
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