weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 17, 2015 11:03:05 GMT -5
I do NOT understand X's not paying child support. Here in IL there is a set formula for the amount of payment required per the number of kids involved AND employers are REQUIRED to forward the payments to the primary, custodial parent. I suppose the X could give up a W-2 job & work only under the table for cash but in all reality how many can actually pay even their own basic living expenses that way? There are set formulas everywhere, but people find ways around it. My ex worked for himself, so garnishing wages was impossible. Not only that, but he moved, and nobody knew where he was. The only way to communicate with him was to put notices in all the major US newspapers. Lots of exes don't pay child support.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on May 17, 2015 11:39:38 GMT -5
I am sure it is more talk than anything, WBBG doesn't seem like the crazy type to me I agree that he doesn't seem like the crazy type.
But he does seem like a guy that is so bitter, angry and twisted that it impacts how he views life and all women. That comes through very clearly in his posts and has been the same for years now.
Seething, irrational rage from an angry person can manifest in actions that others would think were crazy. Such as being willing to cut off one's own nose to spite one's face... ie - burning the money on lawyers so that neither can have it.
Exactly.
I never said he was crazy. Our friend became so bitter and depressed that he wound up taking his own life because he had no hope.
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milee
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Post by milee on May 17, 2015 12:06:22 GMT -5
Our friend became so bitter and depressed that he wound up taking his own life because he had no hope.
I've had a few friends who turned psycho bitter during their divorces. It wasn't pretty. The saddest part was that some of them were justified in being angry since the behavior of the STBX was appallingly awful, but the bitterness and ongoing reaction of the originally aggrieved party was out of proportion to the initial wrong that prompted it. In other words, the STBX was a jerk. In response the former friend reacted with such bitterness and hate that the friend's response was - over the long term - worse than the STBX's jerkiness.
The worst was a woman whose STBX cheated on her and was an ass. She retaliated by spending over $100k to fight over every.last.thing. - including the toaster. She did get some of the things she asked for (including a 32' sailboat that she doesn't know how to sail), but in the process turned into such an awful, bitter witch that most of us don't want to be around her. In the meantime, her now-X is now living a happy life while she's still stuck in witch land.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 17, 2015 12:24:57 GMT -5
We told him not to marry her but he did anyway. Both DH and I didn't want to marry our EX's and it cost us both money and hurt. When you really don't want to marry someone, the resentment is always there.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on May 17, 2015 12:31:50 GMT -5
Really his best bet is to insist that she contribute an equal amount to her own retirement. That is the only way he would come out of it with some of his savings intact.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2015 12:45:44 GMT -5
We told him not to marry her but he did anyway. Both DH and I didn't want to marry our EX's and it cost us both money and hurt. When you really don't want to marry someone, the resentment is always there. context? is 'him' a kid or in-law? Why did you and DH marry people you didn't want to. Arranged marriages or something? DD#1 now says she didn't want to marry DH1 (d.i.c.k.head 1 in this case); but that is a re-arrangement of history. She was extraordinarily hostile towards anyone that said anything negative about DH1 and was insistent on marriage to him. Her sister and I were vehemently against it and were very vocal about it.
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on May 17, 2015 12:49:29 GMT -5
I think what is very sad is the reasoning that people like this use when they don't want to leave. Then it means all the time spent in the relationship, everything invested was a waste. Well this isn't a show pony, it's life, so why would you want to "waste" the whole thing vs. just the 5 years already wasted?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 17, 2015 12:50:04 GMT -5
...:::"Just curious, how do you think you can guarantee any of those? In my state the retirement monies set aside during the marriage at least is guaranteed to be split.":::... Because I won't allow it any other way. Either it all goes to me, or it all goes to the lawyers. Best of luck to you on that plan.
With that attitude, any rational attorney won't take you as a client, and you will get one of the bottom feeding scum who give lawyers a bad name.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on May 17, 2015 13:07:33 GMT -5
So, my husband just told me, in reference to my potential lay-off, that he admits the reason I have to find another job is because he spends too much money. He realizes now that his disagreement with my insistence that we have an EF and send more than the minimum payments to debt has put us in a precarious position. (I did "win" on the EF, we have $10K in cash; I didn't win on the accelerated debt payments.)
If my lay-off does happen and I don't find another job, I think I should use his paycheck to continue contributing to my retirement. I don't think he'd have the same reaction as WWBG should something go awry in our marriage, but it seems like I should "protect" myself just in case. It's a very unhappy place to be in my head to think about that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2015 13:11:00 GMT -5
We told him not to marry her but he did anyway. Both DH and I didn't want to marry our EX's and it cost us both money and hurt. When you really don't want to marry someone, the resentment is always there. context? is 'him' a kid or in-law? Why did you and DH marry people you didn't want to. Arranged marriages or something? DD#1 now says she didn't want to marry DH1 (Richard-head 1 in this case); but that is a re-arrangement of history. She was extraordinarily hostile towards anyone that said anything negative about DH1 and was insistent on marriage to him. Her sister and I were vehemently against it and were very vocal about it. I think "him" is WWBG.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2015 13:14:08 GMT -5
ohhhhhh. so he hated the woman he was dating, but decided to get married anyhow? or is this some sort of sick enclave and WWBG was zib's ex
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mollyc
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Post by mollyc on May 17, 2015 13:20:47 GMT -5
Could you continue to lead your current standard of living on your own salary? Getting back to the original question, probably not. I'm the single earner in the family and even if DH took off with nothing or died, I would have to pay more in $ and time to get all of the same things done. The impact of having to buy him out of half of everything would depend on whether our place qualified for a mortgage or I needed to take a personal loan. I suspect at my salary level, I wouldn't be expected to pay him spousal support but I could be wrong. Anything I had to pay would certainly not be enough to live on without working. DH doesn't do well with teenagers so it is doubtful he would want 50/50 custody of DD, let alone 100%. Besides, he likely wouldn't be able to afford a place that he would be comfortable having her stay overnight. DH's life style would drop to a roommate situation in the cheap parts of town and he likely wouldn't be able to keep any of the dogs. If he won a lottery and left, he would want to take Frankenstein and DDG but I would have to fight to keep one of them or let all 3 go. DD couldn't stand to lose her dad and Mama Bear but, much as Mama Bear prefers me and DD to DH, she is really a dog's dog. She would not be happy without her mate or her daughter. It's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, whether DD would be sadder to lose her dog or watch her pine away.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on May 17, 2015 13:31:49 GMT -5
ohhhhhh. so he hated the woman he was dating, but decided to get married anyhow? or is this some sort of sick enclave and WWBG was zib's ex Eh, not quite. He loves her. He doesn't like how (in his perception) she takes advantage of him. He regrets "not putting his foot down" early on in the relationship and now feels like he's created an unfair-to-him financial situation that he cannot get out of without causing a rift.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2015 13:36:18 GMT -5
He may love her, whatever that is according to him... But I never get the impression that he likes her very much.
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mollyc
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Post by mollyc on May 17, 2015 13:36:43 GMT -5
I know a lot of divorced women, but only one who collects alimony. She's living with a guy who makes very good money, but they won't get married because she wants to ride the alimony gravy train for as long as possible. I think that's so wrong. She's well educated and can support herself but just doesn't feel like working, so the poor sap will just have to keep paying. Assuming "She" is Canadian, how are they getting around Revenue Canada's common-law marriage rules? Or are they in Quebec and it works differently there? I know people pretend they aren't really common-law all of the time and file as single, separated/divorced or widowed, but I've also seen the hassles when Revenue Canada decides you are really common-law. Although to be honest, if neither of them qualify for GST rebate anyway and no one is claiming a child as equivalent to married, etc., Revenue Canada won't give a shit. It's just if you are claiming things you aren't really entitled to that they care. It seems that "She" is the sort that makes WWBG feel justified in his perceptions. Too bad. Here's to hoping the "poor sap" finds a way to drop her ASAP.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on May 17, 2015 14:01:43 GMT -5
He may love her, whatever that is according to him... But I never get the impression that he likes her very much. Remember this is YM... We talk about money or anything related to money 24/7, it is all money all the time. The people we are married to, in love with, sleep with, spend our time with have more than 1 dimension, quality, faults or what you may have it. So I think you should take what anyone may express here with a grain of salt and put it in perspective. My wife and I will be the first to admit that when it comes to finance we do not see eye to eye, never did, probably never will. She brought into our relationship her view of money from an upper middle class lifestyle while I brought mine from a struggling mother barely above poverty level while my dad was doing ok. She has her expectations of finances and what she would provide herself or her kids and I have mine. Nothing wrong with that, our experiences (good or bad) shape our views, create our biases, define our expectations. But I would be an idiot if I only defined my wife based on her take on finances. She is an amazing woman, loving wife, honest to a fault, giving, the best friend someone could ask for, incredible company, amazing hostess, impeccable taste, great decorator, awesome cook and sexually compatible and curious/daring. Our 12 years together (7 married) has been more than just finances and we've been there for each other every step of the way. So yes if I am on YM complaining about her approach to finance that is completely maddening doesn't mean that same day I will not be massaging her feet while we watch HGTV and sharing stories of our day. She knows she drives me crazy when it comes to finances, it has never been a secret. The same way I drive her crazy when it comes to appearance or grooming because I don't care how I look and she won't step outside with a hair out of place. All this to say; just because one aspect of your spouse might drive you crazy doesn't mean you love them less. I am far from perfect (heck, I have the worst Mood swings) and sometimes surprise my wife tolerates me and she isn't either... But it makes for an amazing combo. I highly doubt WBBG doesn't like his wife, and certain he loves her. I think he is more aware of how much he may have spent along the years to maintain a certain lifestyle that has become expected and his savings suffered. Yet once he put his foot down she was still there and it dawned on him he could have done it sooner and she would have stayed. It is more of a hindsight being 20/20; if I knew then what I know now kinda approach and he needs to accept the past is the past and forgive his past sins while enjoying the present. I am sure they are a delightful couple
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on May 17, 2015 14:06:39 GMT -5
TheHaitian, oh, you just made me all warm and fuzzy. That was so nice of you. I know you've pointed that out before, but it was nice to read again. And, I agree with you completely.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2015 14:10:23 GMT -5
I think your wife probably causes you to smack your head against a wall occasionally C. Most of us have that I don't assume you always agree and I'll admit I still think you are a little naive about how kids might change your life. But I have NEVER gotten the impression that you don't respect your wife. It's apparent in everything you post. I can easily imagine you interacting as equals. That is just not the same impression I get in all instances.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 17, 2015 17:49:37 GMT -5
He also doesn't like that she's fat. No, DH and I weren't forced at gunpoint to marry our EX's. Both of them gave us ultimatums and we caved because we didn't think the other one loved us so we "settled." DH and I had a "failure to communicate" plus parental disapproval. We were young and foolish and we both paid dearly, not only in wasted years but in unhappiness.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 17, 2015 23:22:44 GMT -5
I know a lot of divorced women, but only one who collects alimony. She's living with a guy who makes very good money, but they won't get married because she wants to ride the alimony gravy train for as long as possible. I think that's so wrong. She's well educated and can support herself but just doesn't feel like working, so the poor sap will just have to keep paying. Assuming "She" is Canadian, how are they getting around Revenue Canada's common-law marriage rules? Or are they in Quebec and it works differently there? I know people pretend they aren't really common-law all of the time and file as single, separated/divorced or widowed, but I've also seen the hassles when Revenue Canada decides you are really common-law. Although to be honest, if neither of them qualify for GST rebate anyway and no one is claiming a child as equivalent to married, etc., Revenue Canada won't give a shit. It's just if you are claiming things you aren't really entitled to that they care. It seems that "She" is the sort that makes WWBG feel justified in his perceptions. Too bad. Here's to hoping the "poor sap" finds a way to drop her ASAP. Exactly like that. He maintains his own small apartment but has moved into her house for all intents and purposes. Yes, she got the house, too. Women like that give all of us a bad name.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on May 18, 2015 1:25:29 GMT -5
Depressing to think about it but I have to admit I actually did a quick calculation last year when things were pretty unhappy for us last year. I could survive but it definitely would be a step down. And cleaning up and disposing of the properties would be a PITA and expensive especially if we were on an accelerated schedule. Oh, PROPERTIES! You had me worried there for a minute. I thought I had to get you some bail money or hide you in Florida.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on May 18, 2015 5:59:57 GMT -5
...:::"From Day 1 I made sure my wife contributed equal or close to equal amount to her retirement account as I did.":::... And how did you "make" her do this, TheHaitian. Almost sounds like I should drop contributions to match and buy that S4! I'm serious. How did you make her? And yes, we will go drinking!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 18, 2015 6:41:59 GMT -5
Sounds like the Mrs. already got advice from her lawyer about using her money to live nicely now but if her husband gets fed up, she can get his! It probably starts like this. "You need to max out your retirement." If you married a low wage earner, well, you are screwed because one way or the other, you will pay in the end.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on May 18, 2015 9:04:33 GMT -5
I'm not a lawyer but in my state (so I'm told by friends who have gone through a divorce) retirement accounts belong to the contributor if both spouses worked full time. DH and I do not live in a community property state. Basically (as I understand it) on joint assets each party gets a shared based on what they contributed to the acquisition of it during the marriage. This makes it easier for me I guess because there is no assumption that everything will be split evenly.
Very early in our marriage I explained this to DH and made sure he knew it was in his best interest to contribute as much to his retirement accounts as do I. Since I make more that means I'm contributing about 15% of pre-tax (but mostly on a post tax basis) and he is contributing about 35% of his pre-tax. Yes, his take home is reduced substantially but we have more than enough to live on comfortably.
Honestly, it makes me kinda sad to hear the focus is more on protecting ourselves rather than trying to protect and be fair to our spouse. Yannow? The person we are supposed to love and with whom we promised to spend our lives?
My marriage has been far from perfect, but DH and I have always had each others backs.
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quince
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Post by quince on May 19, 2015 0:17:28 GMT -5
When we decided to get married I offered to do a pre-nup or post-nup, whatever he wanted, because I knew my husband had more potential to be a high earner than I did, and I wanted to make sure he did not feel taken advantage of. He basically laughed at me (in a nice way) and emphasized that whatever was earned during our marriage belonged to both of us, and that he was happy to pay (presumably temporary) alimony if it came to that in a split.
He also advised if he ever tried to control me with money, that I should sell some of our possessions to get a cash buffer, and leave the relationship.
When he lived with my friends I would come over to use their washing machine. I'd throw his clothes in to make a full load, and he wouldn't let me fold alone, because he didn't want to have the habit of me doing his laundry for him be part of our relationship.
He is a ridiculously nice guy. He actually makes an effort to be a good person to be around. He pays attention, he makes the decision to behave in an unselfish fashion, not trying to get the most he can out of people, but making sure that everyone is taken care of. In an argument, he absolutely does not escalate. He is a pretty wonderful person. I hope my son ends up more like him than me.
This is why it is hard for me to worry too much about divorcing. Even if we did, he wouldn't try to sabotage anything. I'd end up with close to half of what we have without a wrestling match, and he would be sensitive to my resources when making decisions about our son, and not try to nickel and dime me to death.
He's a great spouse, and would probably be a great ex, because not being an asshole is central to his personality, not something he does to keep the peace in important relationships.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 19, 2015 6:23:25 GMT -5
I'm so glad for you. The person you marry is never the person you divorce but he sounds like the exception.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 19, 2015 7:00:54 GMT -5
When we decided to get married I offered to do a pre-nup or post-nup, whatever he wanted, because I knew my husband had more potential to be a high earner than I did, and I wanted to make sure he did not feel taken advantage of. He basically laughed at me (in a nice way) and emphasized that whatever was earned during our marriage belonged to both of us, and that he was happy to pay (presumably temporary) alimony if it came to that in a split. He also advised if he ever tried to control me with money, that I should sell some of our possessions to get a cash buffer, and leave the relationship. When he lived with my friends I would come over to use their washing machine. I'd throw his clothes in to make a full load, and he wouldn't let me fold alone, because he didn't want to have the habit of me doing his laundry for him be part of our relationship. He is a ridiculously nice guy. He actually makes an effort to be a good person to be around. He pays attention, he makes the decision to behave in an unselfish fashion, not trying to get the most he can out of people, but making sure that everyone is taken care of. In an argument, he absolutely does not escalate. He is a pretty wonderful person. I hope my son ends up more like him than me. This is why it is hard for me to worry too much about divorcing. Even if we did, he wouldn't try to sabotage anything. I'd end up with close to half of what we have without a wrestling match, and he would be sensitive to my resources when making decisions about our son, and not try to nickel and dime me to death. He's a great spouse, and would probably be a great ex, because not being an asshole is central to his personality, not something he does to keep the peace in important relationships. He does sound like a great guy...but truth be told, my ex was 20 years ago when I married him. Never in a million years would I think he would turn into the douche that he is now. he was even a good dad when my kids were small. Now he is too worried about reclaiming his lost youth to care much about his kids...something about turning 45 totally fucked him up.
I'm lucky that I saw what divorce did to my mom so I vowed to never put myself in that position. Of course I never planned on getting divorced but when it happened, it wasn't a crushing financial blow. I was out that day looking for a house. There was no "omg, how am I going to afford to live" and I am so thankful for that. I had enough going on at that moment, I can't imagine tossing in financial worries.
Based on my situation, I agree with zib...you never divorce the person that you marry.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 19, 2015 7:03:11 GMT -5
I'm used to paying most of the expenses. I'm pretty confident that the drop in costs would offset the loss of contribution. Since I would make sure I owed zero in alimony, kept my house, and she didn't get a penny of my retirement, I'd be fine. In fact, I'd immediately rent out a room or two and be rolling in it. She would be . . . not have the lifestyle she is used to. Do you have a prenup? I'm not sure how you think you could keep everything without a prenup, especially if you have a significantly higher salary.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 19, 2015 8:13:17 GMT -5
Even then, if they're too one sided, it's a no go. I saw a marriage with a prenup and she told me she signed it bcuz her lawyer said it'd never hold up in court and her lawyer was correct.
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happytraveler
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Post by happytraveler on May 19, 2015 8:22:30 GMT -5
No possible way.
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