djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 28, 2015 13:41:28 GMT -5
it is only important to understand if you want to solve the problem. if you are happy with the problem, and think that everyone is getting what they deserve (as many people here seem to believe), then there is no reason whatsoever to stop it. people who disagree with me on that point seem to think that more police is the solution. I'm not moralizing anything... nether am i! hahaha.I'm simply stating that I don't think that a majority of the people who live in the area are the ones who are doing all the rioting and destruction. I also think that a majority of police officers aren't the issue either, and are actually trying to do the best job than can with the given situation. However, letting the minority destroy as much property as they are, while looting for their own gain will not help the situation in any way. So the police are left to do nothing and be criticized or apply force and be criticized....it's a no-win situation no matter what they do or don't do. who is "letting" them? who says they should be "let"? not me. that's for sure. i am actually mostly uninterested in the rioting. call me a callous ass for it if you like. i am far more interested in what caused the rioting.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2015 13:45:41 GMT -5
I can understand why people are upset, but there's a difference between being upset and "I'm going to go loot that store and set it on fire." Those two things don't seem compatible.
I get angry and upset at the world sometimes too, but I have the self control and discipline to not channel that anger into violence.
Those that do are like animals.
and how often is it people that are actually upset about whatever event just gave them the opportunity to wreak havoc? take a look at the riots in Vancouver after the Canucks lost the Stanley Cup to my Boston Bruins back in 2011. CBC News linkhow many of those people weren't even from Vancouver? my friend is a Baltimore cop (he has checked in as okay since his last shift) and he said that is largely the case here too. The reports I have been hearing is that these are not the outsiders as was the case in Ferguson. These are locals . I also have not heard about the ratio of minority cops to population as we did in Ferguson. Maybe the races of the police force is more in line with the community here? I don't know and don't have time to dig today.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Apr 28, 2015 13:46:22 GMT -5
The job of the police is to protect law abiding citizens and property. If you break the law then expect to be arrested and possibly hurt if you resist. If you throw rocks at police, don't expect them to stand there and take it for too long. Again, these thugs were only thinking of their personal gain by looting. I remember in 1968 when some store owners spent the night in their store armed. They took it upon themselves to protect their property. Last night owners were beaten.
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kent
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Post by kent on Apr 28, 2015 13:49:35 GMT -5
When your mom in Baltimore knows you are acting like a criminal: My kind of Mom - we need more like her.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Apr 28, 2015 13:54:14 GMT -5
and how often is it people that are actually upset about whatever event just gave them the opportunity to wreak havoc? take a look at the riots in Vancouver after the Canucks lost the Stanley Cup to my Boston Bruins back in 2011. CBC News linkhow many of those people weren't even from Vancouver? my friend is a Baltimore cop (he has checked in as okay since his last shift) and he said that is largely the case here too. The reports I have been hearing is that these are not the outsiders as was the case in Ferguson. These are locals . I also have not heard about the ratio of minority cops to population as we did in Ferguson. Maybe the races of the police force is more in line with the community here? I don't know and don't have time to dig today. not to pick on you, but what's your source? I'm not there either, but my source is right there trying to keep the peace.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Apr 28, 2015 13:56:35 GMT -5
Yes this isn't like Ferguson. Many of these thugs were high school students who planned to loot the mall after school. Baltimore police have a good ratio of races. The police commissioner is black. The Mayor and many of the city council (including the President of the council) are black. This was an opportunity to steal what you can't afford to work for and buy.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Apr 28, 2015 14:05:33 GMT -5
Orioles game postponed again tonight. Well we do have a 10 pm curfew for the week. I remember in 1968 we had a 5 or 6 pm curfew. I was a college student co-oping in Annapolis at the Navy Research Lab and my car pool couldn't get home before that. We carried a letter from the DOD in case we got pulled over. It was eerie driving through town without seeing a person or car.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Apr 28, 2015 14:06:21 GMT -5
The mayor gave them every chance to protest and express their anger. Then they decided to act like thug criminals. Endangering the lives of innocent people while you riot is wrong. It doesn't endear your cause to people at all.
What happened was wrong but two wrongs don't equal right. And it's not the justice his family wants to see.
Baltimore PD is not like Ferguson. Not the same thing at all.
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kent
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Post by kent on Apr 28, 2015 14:07:05 GMT -5
The job of the police is to protect law abiding citizens and property. If you break the law then expect to be arrested and possibly hurt if you resist. If you throw rocks at police, don't expect them to stand there and take it for too long. Again, these thugs were only thinking of their personal gain by looting. I remember in 1968 when some store owners spent the night in their store armed. They took it upon themselves to protect their property. Last night owners were beaten. What I find interesting is that some initial reports said the gangs got together to agree on attacking police and subsequent reports denying they ever agreed. Of course, if I were in a gang with intent to attack police and then learned (or figured out) we had effectively declared war on a bunch of well armed people trained to deal with scumbags, I'd probably do a lot of backtracking as well.
What I have found encouraging is the large number of people that showed up to help clean up efforts as well as several recognized individuals standing up to denounce these criminal punks (Ray Lewis for one). Of course the race hustler, Al Sharpton, will do his best to keep the pot boiling and for that, I place him in the same league as the criminals.
The Mom that slapped the crap out of her son is one stand up woman IMO. My neighbor is the same sort of person. If her two sons engaged it that kind of destruction, she would do the same thing and tell them she was saving their lives by getting to them before their father did. FWIW, she's the one in the family that carries a firearm (law enforcement) so you can only imagine why the father would be an even bigger threat. He's a gentle guy with a rather imposing physique and a voice to go along with it. I love that family, I really do.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Apr 28, 2015 14:10:30 GMT -5
The police commissioner said he needed more mom's like her.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 28, 2015 14:13:46 GMT -5
I don't see it spreading to other communities. I believe other communities would stand their ground and shoot to kill as opposed to ,"oh, well, let it burn."
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Apr 28, 2015 14:15:36 GMT -5
Kent, yes there are some good stories. Some college students from Morgan State ( a predominately black college) showed up with buckets and brooms to clean up the mess. As did people in neighborhoods. I thought the black leaders in suits were brave in getting between the looters and stores to talk them out of looting. I saw some listen and move away, but others ran into the stores. Showed lack of respect for the law and leaders of their color who struggled over many years to keep this stuff from happening again.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 28, 2015 14:19:24 GMT -5
This isn't new. Baltimore was going bad since the late sixties. My girlfriend was so glad to get transferred out of there she took a job in a horrible town just to stay with her company but escape that area.
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kent
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Post by kent on Apr 28, 2015 14:24:00 GMT -5
The police commissioner said he needed more mom's like her. Agree - I think our entire society needs more like her. As an aside, and because I'm a lot older than most of you, here's how things worked in the "old days."
You were taught to respect the police, your neighbors, property, etc. If you did something to really piss off your neighbor, you likely got a smack (not a beating) from him/her and drug home to your Mom for an encore presentation. After that, you were advised that the best is yet to come when your father gets home.
So, you stood a fair chance of catching hell three times for the same thing. The parental system at the time didn't embrace prohibitive concepts like a ban on double jeopardy and, as a result, you usually didn't engage in a repeat performance.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Apr 28, 2015 14:57:17 GMT -5
I do have to bring up the question in regard to people criticizing how police interact with AA, how much of this is due to skin color and how much is due to police being more harsh is high-crime areas that happen to be predominantly AA? It's not really a discussion I've seen on the overall issue.
I also have to question what proportion do incidents happen in comparison with the overall number of interactions between police and AA? The media will blow up reports on any incidents like this and try to make it appear like it happens everyday and almost with every incident, but I'm honestly asking at what point is it an epidemic and at what point is it the law of averages for people to do something stupid? You can ask the same thing in regard to proportion of incidents and overall interactions between police and any gender or race, and break it down even further to see if more incidents happen in higher crime areas.
You can argue that the higher crime rate is due to poverty, but that ignores more rural areas that are extremely poor not typically having the same issues (or maybe it's just not as televised). You can probably make a reasonable argument that a lot of the reason some similar circumstances don't occur in more rural areas is because of a different overall mentality (not sure if that is true or not) plus the police probably also live in the area, whereas that may not be the case in inner cities. If police live in the same area, they probably are more likely to approach situations differently because they kind of know how to take the person (wheras that can be harder to do with somebody you don't know in an area you aren't familiar with)...and if you live in the area, you may have a higher vested interest to keep the peace instead of just trying to make it through your shift (basically the idea of ownership within the community).
You can argue it's lack of opportunity or education, but far too many people want to only focus on inner cities while ignoring the same issues in more rural communities; whether that is due to the number of people in inner cities vs rural areas or political motivation is up for debate.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Apr 28, 2015 14:58:47 GMT -5
The police commissioner said he needed more mom's like her. Agree - I think our entire society needs more like her. As an aside, and because I'm a lot older than most of you, here's how things worked in the "old days."
You were taught to respect the police, your neighbors, property, etc. If you did something to really piss off your neighbor, you likely got a smack (not a beating) from him/her and drug home to your Mom for an encore presentation. After that, you were advised that the best is yet to come when your father gets home.
So, you stood a fair chance of catching hell three times for the same thing. The parental system at the time didn't embrace prohibitive concepts like a ban on double jeopardy and, as a result, you usually didn't engage in a repeat performance.
Now parents are scared of having CPS called on them, and a large portion of people will classify any type of physical punishment (i.e. spanking) as a form of abuse. It's a different world, for good or bad.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Apr 28, 2015 15:55:10 GMT -5
Wednesday's Orioles game will be played at 2:05 PM but is closed to the public.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 28, 2015 16:04:29 GMT -5
Yup, wait and see if somebody calls CPS on Momma! Hope she opens up a can of whoop ass on whoever does!
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Apr 28, 2015 16:24:37 GMT -5
Part of a police update. People are taking water and food to the police on line. Restaurants are offering free meals to the police, national Guard and firefighters. 144 vehicle fires, 20+ police officers sent to the hospital. Many stayed in line with minor injuries.
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Peace77
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Post by Peace77 on Apr 28, 2015 17:50:17 GMT -5
I feel badly for the single mothers who were impacted. One has no job because the store where she works was looted and vandalized.
Another mother is now homeless because the fire at the adjacent liquor store that was looted and set on fire spread to her home. They lost everything including the custom wheelchair for her 7 year old. People have volunteered to replace the wheelchair.
The wheelchair accessible bus belonging to the church that was building transitional housing was a total loss. The transitional housing under construction and senior center were also a total loss.
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Peace77
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Post by Peace77 on Apr 28, 2015 18:04:46 GMT -5
I grew up in Baltimore and don't live that far away now. Let's put today's events in perspective. A high school let out and about 100 students looted a mall, then ran around town looting other stores and burning a CVS store. So when they get home tonight at 10 pm will their parents ask where they got the new Playstation? The problem starts at home. Other thugs, and they were properly called that by the mayor, governor and police chief, took advantage of the situation and looted stores. I remember the 1968 riots. I know that for decades many have fought for equality. These thugs set race relations back decades. Try getting into college or having a good job with a criminal record. The police used great restraint. 17 injured and 2 still in the hospital. People drove to the mall in nice cars and stole as much as they could carry while being told they were being caught on police video. On a positive note local religious leaders marched to stop some of the looting and met tonight to plan activities tomorrow. Now we have a state of emergency and the National Guard. 10 pm curfew tomorrow. The businesses that were burned may not return. The local stores may not be able to reopen. So much for job opportunities. I'm sure they will blame someone other then themselves. This timeline is incorrect. The students gathered after school let out at Mondawmin mall with the intent to "take out officers". Bricks, rocks and bottles were thrown at officers resulting in multiple officers being injured with broken bones and 1 knocked unconscious. They left the mall and headed south. They broke into CVS and looted it for over 3 hours. When they were done, they set it on fire. Other stores such as 7-11 stores, liquor stores, convenience stores and shoe stores were looted and damaged. 144 fires were started including police vehicles. Much later around 8 pm pm they returned to Mondawmin Mall and began looting. Some of the looters were arrested.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 28, 2015 19:30:07 GMT -5
Shoulda shot 'em
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 28, 2015 19:48:55 GMT -5
the national guard is probably in Afghanistan.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 28, 2015 19:50:58 GMT -5
Sigh
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Apr 28, 2015 19:56:51 GMT -5
I think there are 1000 National Guardsmen in Baltimore now with another 1000 arriving tonight. Some good events today. A few non-violent groups. One had many high school kids and drummers obviously from different school bands dancing in the street. Hopefully everyone will go home before the 10 pm curfew. Then only trouble makers will be out, and law enforcement is well prepared to arrest them.
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Peace77
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Post by Peace77 on Apr 28, 2015 21:53:28 GMT -5
They didn't want to shoot 14, 15 and 16 year old kids.
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Peace77
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Post by Peace77 on Apr 28, 2015 22:08:07 GMT -5
I think there are 1000 National Guardsmen in Baltimore now with another 1000 arriving tonight. Some good events today. A few non-violent groups. One had many high school kids and drummers obviously from different school bands dancing in the street. Hopefully everyone will go home before the 10 pm curfew. Then only trouble makers will be out, and law enforcement is well prepared to arrest them. Unfortunately people didn't all go home. Police had to use pepper balls and tear gas starting at 10:30 pm. They plan to start arresting the teenagers that are still outside after 11 pm.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Apr 28, 2015 22:22:18 GMT -5
Thanks. While it might show how some police treat people differently, it doesn't back up your claim that police are on a mission to kill black men in their custody.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Apr 28, 2015 22:59:21 GMT -5
So revenge? not exactly. if i am being treated with injustice, and i don't see any just path, then i will lose all respect for the IDEA of justice.In this case, it is revenge against whom? It is like tearing up your own home because you don't like something your neighbor did we seem to have difficulty communicating, PI. i don't know why, but i will try to stop it in this case, and we will see how it goes.
if you feel completely impotent in a situation, you will do all kinds of crazy s*&t that appears to be counterproductive just to make a point. monks will light themselves on fire. soldiers will charge into a chaos of bullets. the manically depressed will commit suicide. a religious fanatic will strap a bomb to himself and walk into a shopping mall. when i see stuff like this, my first thought is NOT "what a bunch of dumbasses! they are destroying their own neighborhoods!". what i think is: "their neighborhoods are already destroyed, and they have lost all hope". hopeless people are very dangerous. it is good for the hopeful to remember that.
, when the reality is that you are only hurting yourself. While I have little doubt that some people who are doing the rioting are justifying it in the way you say, it neither makes it right, nor should it be condoned in any way. i agree that it should not be condoned, i disagree that this is "hurting yourself". the object is to hurt the fabric of society, and i think it is quite effective at doing that. the objective is the same for suicide bombings. that is also quite effective. which is why it will never stop. Very well said DJ. I think there is deep rage that unfortunately felt the need to express itself as a riot. Happened in the past too. I've been told the race riots in Newark, NJ. were pretty bad. Letting police essentially kill someone and for nothing appear to happen is going to invoke some deep deep feelings. I do not condone the violence any more than I condone people breaking shit when they are angry, but that's humans for you.
Contain the riots, but some justice needs to be dished up. Serve some justice, the 'need' for these riots should disappear.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Apr 28, 2015 23:30:41 GMT -5
Thanks. While it might show how some police treat people differently, it doesn't back up your claim that police are on a mission to kill black men in their custody. No one said that did they? The whole enchilada is that police stereotype and make assumptions about black suspects- and in many cases kill those suspects based on either fear or prejudice. That is the obvious problem.
Do I need to show the white guy with a gun video again?
White man with a gun:
www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2014/06/dash_cam_footage_from_open_car.html
They will just sit down and have a conversation about it. If anyone thinks that a black person would be given this kind of latitude then you are the stupidest racist on the planet.
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