zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 28, 2015 8:04:08 GMT -5
Same as Detroit.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 28, 2015 8:07:31 GMT -5
When your mom in Baltimore knows you are acting like a criminal:
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 28, 2015 8:15:19 GMT -5
Part of me thinks it's funny because she is showing righteous anger at her son's behavior but the other part of me worries that her violence toward him may not be a good plan either. Maybe a bit of a paddling when he was younger might have been better.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 28, 2015 8:19:32 GMT -5
Part of me thinks it's funny because she is showing righteous anger at her son's behavior but the other part of me worries that her violence toward him may not be a good plan either. Maybe a bit of a paddling when he was younger might have been better. A little late for that I think. Rule of just about every home in the world: You don't piss off mom.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 28, 2015 8:26:42 GMT -5
Remember the cat caller who cat called his Mom?
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Apr 28, 2015 8:50:24 GMT -5
I can understand why people are upset, but there's a difference between being upset and "I'm going to go loot that store and set it on fire." Those two things don't seem compatible.
I get angry and upset at the world sometimes too, but I have the self control and discipline to not channel that anger into violence.
Those that do are like animals.
and how often is it people that are actually upset about whatever event just gave them the opportunity to wreak havoc? take a look at the riots in Vancouver after the Canucks lost the Stanley Cup to my Boston Bruins back in 2011. CBC News linkhow many of those people weren't even from Vancouver? my friend is a Baltimore cop (he has checked in as okay since his last shift) and he said that is largely the case here too.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Apr 28, 2015 9:10:14 GMT -5
I wonder how the ratio of good cops/bad cops fares with lawful protestors/criminals? About the same I would guess.
Probably some value in that statement, but it still doesn't seem to stop many people from painting all cops with the broad brush of just being a bunch of racists wanting to kill black people. Neither is right, but I do see an awful lot of people trying to differentiate between protestors and not too many doing the same for the police.
I understand the clergy wanting to make peace- but dealing with gangs is akin to dealing with terrorists.
BTW any unarmed police have their spine severed amidst the chaos? Really?! Nothing inflammatory at all about that last statement...and it seems almost like a justification that it's ok.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Apr 28, 2015 9:13:59 GMT -5
Maybe if the plan of the day was "Let's not kill every black man we arrest", this BS would stop in a hurry. There are bad cops, and even though you wouldn't know it by the news coverage, there are even white people who get unjustifiably killed by some bad cops. There are even a lot of good cops who are trying to do their best to do their jobs with whatever situation they are given....but you seem more angry over the skin color of the victim than the actual crime itself. I don't see anybody justifying the cops in this situation, but it sure does feed into some political talking points.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Apr 28, 2015 9:28:25 GMT -5
It's all well and good to say we should let these people burn the place down and have to live in the ruins.....except I'm betting the majority of the people doing the damage don't even live there. I'm sure the majority of the people who will have to live with the consequences are law-abiding citizens just trying to make a living. What about them? I'd also bet that 95% of these people don't give two shits about Mr. Gray.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Apr 28, 2015 9:50:24 GMT -5
The looting and burning isn't about race or police. It's opportunists stealing. Started by high school students. Where are the parents during this? Come home at 10 pm with loot.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Apr 28, 2015 9:58:37 GMT -5
there are a few posters on this board that cultivate their strawman arguments, no need to name anyone. let's not talk about specific posters, please.
-chiver mod
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2015 10:01:28 GMT -5
I worked in Baltimore City for over a decade. There are some nice/safe streets but majority of it is G-d's forsaken land. When I was doing RE investing, I drove around some of those neighborhoods - and one thing was VERY clear - people who lived there didn't care about themselves or their community. So, I am not surprised at all that they don't care if the whole thing burns to the ground. They will just move "down the road". I second the Blonde Granny's suggestions - I think any civilized person and all the cops should just leave the area and let thugs at it. I do know that there were efforts to revive that area, but 15 yrs later it just doesn't seem like anything works. That sounds fine and dandy, but how many of the people that live there can actually afford to move? Where will they go?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2015 10:04:14 GMT -5
Those thugs burned down a senior complex under construction and a CVS. What about the seniors who could really have benefitted? The people in that community depend on that store, for important things like groceries. Those criminals don't realize or don't care that the majority of the people they are hurting are black.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Apr 28, 2015 10:23:57 GMT -5
I worked in Baltimore City for over a decade. There are some nice/safe streets but majority of it is G-d's forsaken land. When I was doing RE investing, I drove around some of those neighborhoods - and one thing was VERY clear - people who lived there didn't care about themselves or their community. So, I am not surprised at all that they don't care if the whole thing burns to the ground. They will just move "down the road". I second the Blonde Granny's suggestions - I think any civilized person and all the cops should just leave the area and let thugs at it. I do know that there were efforts to revive that area, but 15 yrs later it just doesn't seem like anything works. That sounds fine and dandy, but how many of the people that live there can actually afford to move? Where will they go? I think that brings up a point that many people don't seem to want to talk about, in that most people who live in these communities do so because that is where they can afford to live. Most are honestly good people, just trying to survive like everybody else, and doing the best they can with the situation they are in. Unfortunately they are stuck for right now and have to make the best out of a bad situation...and I don't think its ok to make the many good people suffer because a few want to capitalize on anything they can without any regard to how it might affect anybody else. However the flip side is that the actions that are probably needed to subdue those taking advantage of the situation would also likely lead to more attacks against the police by those who want to portray them as a bunch of racist looking for any reason to attack non-white people. So the police are stuck between a rock and hard place in terms of what to do too. So really what is the best answer, they will get bashed for doing nothing and they would probably get bashed for doing what it would take to stop it. Another issue that people don't want to seem to discuss (although not really applicable in this particular case from what I have seen) is that people want to talk about how cops are more forceful or act differently in certain neighborhoods. The reality is that a lot of times, it's human nature to be more forceful or on edge in more dangerous areas. If an area has a higher crime rate, I probably would expect less leeway in what police let slide. We can discuss if that is right or not, but even the people who live in higher crime areas probably are more on guard than they would probably be if they lived in a lower crime area. It's not justification, but it a reality of working in higher crime areas or at least areas where more violent crimes occur.
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wyouser
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Post by wyouser on Apr 28, 2015 10:24:52 GMT -5
I feel better now, The Reverend Al is on his way to mend the situation. One more time, where is the leadership? Is anybody there? Does anybody care? Come on, horrible employment statistics, crap for schools, broken families, gangs, crime. Talk is cheap, money buys whisky....where the hell is the leadership? Nuff said...rant over!
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 28, 2015 10:26:28 GMT -5
Is it possible Fox News got bad information or twisted the news? Before protests over Freddie Gray’s death turned chaotic, an unlikely alliance was born in Baltimore on Saturday: Rivals from the Bloods and the Crips agreed to march side by side against police brutality.
The alleged gang members are pictured on social media crowding together with Nation of Islam activists, who told The Daily Beast they brokered the truce in honor of Gray, who died last week after suffering spinal injuries while in police custody.
In one photo, a gang activist in a red sweatshirt crouches to fit into a group photo with rivals decked out in blue bandanas.“
I can say with honesty those brothers demonstrated they can be united for a common good,” said Carlos Muhammad, a minister at Nation of Islam’s Mosque No. 6. “At the rally, they made the call that they must be united on that day. It should be commended.”BLOODS AND CRIPS TEAM UP TO PROTEST BALTIMORE’S COPS
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 28, 2015 10:31:24 GMT -5
I feel better now, The Reverend Al is on his way to mend the situation. One more time, where is the leadership? Is anybody there? Does anybody care? Come on, horrible employment statistics, crap for schools, broken families, gangs, crime. Talk is cheap, money buys whisky....where the hell is the leadership? Nuff said...rant over! The mayor, the counsel, several clergymen, and the family of the deceased have all called for calm and have told the rioters to knock it off. There's the leadership. Unfortunately, the opportunists are not listening.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Apr 28, 2015 10:33:57 GMT -5
I worked in Baltimore City for over a decade. There are some nice/safe streets but majority of it is G-d's forsaken land. When I was doing RE investing, I drove around some of those neighborhoods - and one thing was VERY clear - people who lived there didn't care about themselves or their community. So, I am not surprised at all that they don't care if the whole thing burns to the ground. They will just move "down the road". I second the Blonde Granny's suggestions - I think any civilized person and all the cops should just leave the area and let thugs at it. I do know that there were efforts to revive that area, but 15 yrs later it just doesn't seem like anything works. That sounds fine and dandy, but how many of the people that live there can actually afford to move? Where will they go? They don't want to move. Section 8 works just fine in 99% of the Baltimore apartment complexes. If they truly wanted to get away from that shithole they live in, they would. But instead, I've seen blocks and blocks and blocks of destroyed homes, people sitting out on the front porches doing literally nothing except sitting and looking. All day.every day. There was a huge movement on rehabbing many of those houses, it went nowhere.
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wyouser
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Post by wyouser on Apr 28, 2015 10:41:19 GMT -5
I feel better now, The Reverend Al is on his way to mend the situation. One more time, where is the leadership? Is anybody there? Does anybody care? Come on, horrible employment statistics, crap for schools, broken families, gangs, crime. Talk is cheap, money buys whisky....where the hell is the leadership? Nuff said...rant over! The mayor, the counsel, several clergymen, and the family of the deceased have all called for calm and have told the rioters to knock it off. There's the leadership. Unfortunately, the opportunists are not listening. Swamp, this goes a tad above local leadership, Look a few miles further at another "center of leadership"
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 28, 2015 11:28:27 GMT -5
What do you expect? Is anyone surprised? I'm sure not. sure, i'll bite. yes, i am always a little surprised by this stuff. but Baltimore has had serious problems for a long time.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 28, 2015 11:29:26 GMT -5
I've been watching this unfold for most of the day. It's sickening. I do not condone police brutality and officers who indulge should be punished. This type of response is uncalled for. Whatever happened to our justice system? Investigations and innocent until proven guilty and all that important stuff? How looting and destroying businesses and wreaking havoc on entire neighborhoods promotes their cause or satisfies their sense of justice is beyond me. have you considered that it might satisfy their sense of INJUSTICE?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 28, 2015 11:32:29 GMT -5
I can understand why people are upset, but there's a difference between being upset and "I'm going to go loot that store and set it on fire." Those two things don't seem compatible.
I get angry and upset at the world sometimes too, but I have the self control and discipline to not channel that anger into violence.
Those that do are like animals.
it goes to show how different your situation is than theirs, i guess. note: i am in no way condoning the violence. but i sure as hell understand it.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 28, 2015 11:33:07 GMT -5
Many many years ago there was rioting in E. St. Louis. Eventually the police just left the area and let the people doing the rioting demolish the town. AFAIK, it has really never been rebuilt.
Perhaps it's time for that same tactic now. Send the police home for their own safety and let those doing the damage destroy everything in their path. Then, don't bother to rebuild the city. Yeah, let them destroy their own communities and let them wallow in the rubble. if you allow that to happen, they won't stop at "their communities".
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 28, 2015 11:35:48 GMT -5
I grew up in Baltimore and don't live that far away now. Let's put today's events in perspective. A high school let out and about 100 students looted a mall, then ran around town looting other stores and burning a CVS store. So when they get home tonight at 10 pm will their parents ask where they got the new Playstation? The problem starts at home. Other thugs, and they were properly called that by the mayor, governor and police chief, took advantage of the situation and looted stores. I remember the 1968 riots. I know that for decades many have fought for equality. These thugs set race relations back decades. Try getting into college or having a good job with a criminal record. The police used great restraint. 17 injured and 2 still in the hospital. People drove to the mall in nice cars and stole as much as they could carry while being told they were being caught on police video. On a positive note local religious leaders marched to stop some of the looting and met tonight to plan activities tomorrow. Now we have a state of emergency and the National Guard. 10 pm curfew tomorrow. The businesses that were burned may not return. The local stores may not be able to reopen. So much for job opportunities. I'm sure they will blame someone other then themselves. i don't think loss of jobs are really on their minds, do you?
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Apr 28, 2015 11:42:16 GMT -5
I've been watching this unfold for most of the day. It's sickening. I do not condone police brutality and officers who indulge should be punished. This type of response is uncalled for. Whatever happened to our justice system? Investigations and innocent until proven guilty and all that important stuff? How looting and destroying businesses and wreaking havoc on entire neighborhoods promotes their cause or satisfies their sense of justice is beyond me. have you considered that it might satisfy their sense of INJUSTICE? So revenge? In this case, it is revenge against whom? It is like tearing up your own home because you don't like something your neighbor did, when the reality is that you are only hurting yourself. While I have little doubt that some people who are doing the rioting are justifying it in the way you say, it neither makes it right, nor should it be condoned in any way.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 28, 2015 11:57:39 GMT -5
have you considered that it might satisfy their sense of INJUSTICE? So revenge? not exactly. if i am being treated with injustice, and i don't see any just path, then i will lose all respect for the IDEA of justice.In this case, it is revenge against whom? It is like tearing up your own home because you don't like something your neighbor did we seem to have difficulty communicating, PI. i don't know why, but i will try to stop it in this case, and we will see how it goes.
if you feel completely impotent in a situation, you will do all kinds of crazy s*&t that appears to be counterproductive just to make a point. monks will light themselves on fire. soldiers will charge into a chaos of bullets. the manically depressed will commit suicide. a religious fanatic will strap a bomb to himself and walk into a shopping mall. when i see stuff like this, my first thought is NOT "what a bunch of dumbasses! they are destroying their own neighborhoods!". what i think is: "their neighborhoods are already destroyed, and they have lost all hope". hopeless people are very dangerous. it is good for the hopeful to remember that.
, when the reality is that you are only hurting yourself. While I have little doubt that some people who are doing the rioting are justifying it in the way you say, it neither makes it right, nor should it be condoned in any way. i agree that it should not be condoned, i disagree that this is "hurting yourself". the object is to hurt the fabric of society, and i think it is quite effective at doing that. the objective is the same for suicide bombings. that is also quite effective. which is why it will never stop.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Apr 28, 2015 12:17:11 GMT -5
So revenge? not exactly. if i am being treated with injustice, and i don't see any just path, then i will lose all respect for the IDEA of justice.In this case, it is revenge against whom? It is like tearing up your own home because you don't like something your neighbor did we seem to have difficulty communicating, PI. i don't know why, but i will try to stop it in this case, and we will see how it goes.
if you feel completely impotent in a situation, you will do all kinds of crazy s*&t that appears to be counterproductive just to make a point. monks will light themselves on fire. soldiers will charge into a chaos of bullets. the manically depressed will commit suicide. a religious fanatic will strap a bomb to himself and walk into a shopping mall. when i see stuff like this, my first thought is NOT "what a bunch of dumbasses! they are destroying their own neighborhoods!". what i think is: "their neighborhoods are already destroyed, and they have lost all hope". hopeless people are very dangerous. it is good for the hopeful to remember that.
, when the reality is that you are only hurting yourself. While I have little doubt that some people who are doing the rioting are justifying it in the way you say, it neither makes it right, nor should it be condoned in any way. i agree that it should not be condoned, i disagree that this is "hurting yourself". the object is to hurt the fabric of society, and i think it is quite effective at doing that. the objective is the same for suicide bombings. that is also quite effective. which is why it will never stop. The problem with that logic is that it can be taken to an infinite number of levels and extremes. Do you feel the same way when you see a cop or group of cops go beyond their limits because they feel that following the law they are trying to uphold is not enough? While you are saying that you are not condoning the actions (which are actually probably primarily being done by a very small minoirity looking to take advange of the situation), but by saying it's understandable...you are in a way moralizing it and trying to justify it on some level. While I'm not sure if there is a real way of analyzing it, I really doubt that most of the people doing the actual rioting are doing so because they do not see any other outlet...most are probably doing it because they see an opportunity for themselves and only themselves. Maybe I'm way off base and you are just saying it is important to understand the reason people do or think something, even if you disagree with it...or maybe you are just trying to show the logic of an illogical situation...but again the problem is that it almost seems like you are trying to moralize and justify it on some level (even if you don't agree with that justification) by basically saying "you just don't understand their viewpoint."
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Apr 28, 2015 12:18:26 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 28, 2015 13:18:39 GMT -5
i agree that it should not be condoned, i disagree that this is "hurting yourself". the object is to hurt the fabric of society, and i think it is quite effective at doing that. the objective is the same for suicide bombings. that is also quite effective. which is why it will never stop. The problem with that logic is that it can be taken to an infinite number of levels and extremes. Do you feel the same way when you see a cop or group of cops go beyond their limits because they feel that following the law they are trying to uphold is not enough? again, PI. i am not CONDONING the behavior. but i don't think it is that hard to understand. i have said this probably two dozen times on the board, but i will say it once more in this context. when the person or property of non consenting others is harmed by a second person, that second person should be prevented from doing so, or prosecuted to the extent that law allows. you giving COUNTEREXAMPLES of behavior i already don't condone makes no argumentative sense.While you are saying that you are not condoning the actions (which are actually probably primarily being done by a very small minoirity looking to take advange of the situation), but by saying it's understandable...you are in a way moralizing it and trying to justify it on some level. i am no moral relativist, bro. things are either absolutely wrong, or they are not, to me. so, no. understanding doesn't mean agreeing, condoning or moralizing, no matter what you may think. and no amount of inference that i am somehow on the side of the looters will stop me from saying that i understand it, if you were wondering. While I'm not sure if there is a real way of analyzing it, I really doubt that most of the people doing the actual rioting are doing so because they do not see any other outlet...most are probably doing it because they see an opportunity for themselves and only themselves. now who is moralizing? Maybe I'm way off base and you are just saying it is important to understand the reason people do or think something, even if you disagree with it...or maybe you are just trying to show the logic of an illogical situation...but again the problem is that it almost seems like you are trying to moralize and justify it on some level (even if you don't agree with that justification) by basically saying "you just don't understand their viewpoint." it is only important to understand if you want to solve the problem. if you are happy with the problem, and think that everyone is getting what they deserve (as many people here seem to believe), then there is no reason whatsoever to stop it. people who disagree with me on that point seem to think that more police is the solution.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Apr 28, 2015 13:36:34 GMT -5
The problem with that logic is that it can be taken to an infinite number of levels and extremes. Do you feel the same way when you see a cop or group of cops go beyond their limits because they feel that following the law they are trying to uphold is not enough? again, PI. i am not CONDONING the behavior. but i don't think it is that hard to understand. i have said this probably two dozen times on the board, but i will say it once more in this context. when the person or property of non consenting others is harmed by a second person, that second person should be prevented from doing so, or prosecuted to the extent that law allows. you giving COUNTEREXAMPLES of behavior i already don't condone makes no argumentative sense.While you are saying that you are not condoning the actions (which are actually probably primarily being done by a very small minoirity looking to take advange of the situation), but by saying it's understandable...you are in a way moralizing it and trying to justify it on some level. i am no moral relativist, bro. things are either absolutely wrong, or they are not, to me. so, no. understanding doesn't mean agreeing, condoning or moralizing, no matter what you may think. and no amount of inference that i am somehow on the side of the looters will stop me from saying that i understand it, if you were wondering. While I'm not sure if there is a real way of analyzing it, I really doubt that most of the people doing the actual rioting are doing so because they do not see any other outlet...most are probably doing it because they see an opportunity for themselves and only themselves. now who is moralizing? Maybe I'm way off base and you are just saying it is important to understand the reason people do or think something, even if you disagree with it...or maybe you are just trying to show the logic of an illogical situation...but again the problem is that it almost seems like you are trying to moralize and justify it on some level (even if you don't agree with that justification) by basically saying "you just don't understand their viewpoint." it is only important to understand if you want to solve the problem. if you are happy with the problem, and think that everyone is getting what they deserve (as many people here seem to believe), then there is no reason whatsoever to stop it. people who disagree with me on that point seem to think that more police is the solution. I'm not moralizing anything...I'm simply stating that I don't think that a majority of the people who live in the area are the ones who are doing all the rioting and destruction. I also think that a majority of police officers aren't the issue either, and are actually trying to do the best job than can with the given situation. However, letting the minority destroy as much property as they are, while looting for their own gain will not help the situation in any way. So the police are left to do nothing and be criticized or apply force and be criticized....it's a no-win situation no matter what they do or don't do.
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