Who has it it easier when dating, men or women?

[Phoenix84]

A while back, someone (I think it was beergut) made the argument that women overall had a harder time dating than men.

I thought that was a pretty bold statement, given that hasn't been my experience. But obviously I haven't experienced how the other half lives.

So, who do you think has it harder when it comes to dating?

[Phoenix84]

I think it depends a lot on your age and what stage of life you're in.

In your 20's and 30's, I think women have a much easier time dating. But I think once you start getting into the 40's and beyond, men start having an easier time of it. At least that's what my dad has said, and I can see how that could be the case.

Let's face it, as a general rule, women are attracted to maturity and men are attracted to youth and beauty. Obviously there's more to it than that, and those rules don't apply to everyone, but if you take a broad outlook those things seem to be the case. Women often marry older men.  In short, men's attractiveness often grows with age as women's shrinks with age.

Furthermore, on another topic, men virtually always end up paying for first few dates, most of which don't work out.  So dating often ends up being more costly for men.

Anyway, could see how women have it easier early on, but men have it easier later on.

What say you?

[Phoenix84]

But, to play devil's advocate, I can see how the opposite might be true as well.

Men have higher rates of crime/incarceration, so if you want to meet someone without a criminal record, it'll be harder if you're a woman.

Men earn fewer college degrees, so if you're looking for someone who's educated, you'll have a harder time if you're a woman.

There are literally fewer men in the general population than women. There is probably about 5% or so more women in the country than men, so by definition, a certain percent of women will be single. This ratio only gets worse as one ages, as men tend to die earlier than women.

[quince]

Easier: Married folks with no kids. So easy to go on a date.

Harder: Single parent with no family living nearby.

I think I've gone out with more of the men that have pursued me than men I have pursued have allowed themselves to be caught....

So...conventionally attractive women have it easiest, unattractive women have it hardest, and men are sandwiched in the middle.

[giramomma]

Apr 14, 2015 21:15:14 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

So, who do you think has it harder when it comes to dating?

Depends on the purpose of dating.

My purpose was to get free drinks and have some fun. Wearing clothing to show off the goods isn't all that hard.

I also think men have it easy too...drinks, IMVHO, are cheap exchange for getting laid.

Dating to find a partner....well, I think it's harder, period. I don't know that any gender has an easier time of it. I think it depends more on circumstance and personality. Neither one is particularly easy to change.

[souldoubt]

Most of the girls I came across that were ready to jump into bed with a guy after he bought them a few drinks weren't the type of woman I wanted to end up in bed with but plenty of my friends did.  Don't get me wrong when you hit it off with someone things can happen at light speed but most of the people I knew who were doing that regularly when we used to go out all ended up in the same sex pool so to speak.  I definitely agree that in your 20's women have it easier but I'm biased since I'm a guy.  Women at that age can be as picky as they want while I've literally watched guys just play the odds because they aren't trying to bat 1.000 they're just trying to get a hit.  I think as we age it kind of shifts to where guys have more power because as a guy if you're stable and have your shit together you're now a catch to some women who might have considered that boring a few years earlier.  I'm sure we could go back and forth all day based on the different experiences of YM posters but in the end I think most can agree that dating sucks when you're ready to settle down and it doesn't happen.   

[MJ2.0]

Apr 14, 2015 21:15:14 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

A while back, someone (I think it was beergut) made the argument that women overall had a harder time dating than men.

I thought that was a pretty bold statement, given that hasn't been my experience. But obviously I haven't experienced how the other half lives.

So, who do you think has it harder when it comes to dating?

I'd say that women of a certain education level (higher than a Bachelors degree) and age range (over 30) have a more difficult time dating than younger or less educated women. But men with unstable job situations ("unstable" doesn't necessarily refer to the size of their paycheck) will have a pretty hard time finding someone for more than a booty call.

[beergut]

I still think women have a more difficult time, and for the reasons I've elucidated before.

It is a simple numbers game, if women want a stable guy who has a degree and a steady job, there is a much smaller pool of people for them to choose from. Conversely, because there is a bigger pool of women for those same guys to choose from, it is much easier for men.

[Phoenix84]

Yeah, let's face it, young, attractive women likely have an easy time of it. Easiest of all in fact. I think as time goes on though, the scale becomes more even, and eventually tips in favor of men.

Though I can see how specific individual circumstances can make dating significantly harder.  For example, personality, attractiveness, job ect.  Certain factors I think hurt women than men more, and vice versa.

Not being attractive probably hurt women more, not having a good job probably hurt men more, and having kids probably hurt women more.

[Phoenix84]

Apr 14, 2015 23:33:24 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

Apr 14, 2015 21:15:14 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

A while back, someone (I think it was beergut) made the argument that women overall had a harder time dating than men.

I thought that was a pretty bold statement, given that hasn't been my experience. But obviously I haven't experienced how the other half lives.

So, who do you think has it harder when it comes to dating?

I'd say that women of a certain education level (higher than a Bachelors degree) and age range (over 30) have a more difficult time dating than younger or less educated women. But men with unstable job situations ("unstable" doesn't necessarily refer to the size of their paycheck) will have a pretty hard time finding someone for more than a booty call.

It always seemed strange to me that women make the claim that education hurts them.

I've always been the opposite, I've always looked primarily at women who have a bachelor's degree or higher. I've actually only recently decided I needed to expand my horizons on that front and started dating women with associates or some college.

I'd rather be with a smart woman than a not smart women. I like intelligent discussions.

[wvugurl26]

I think some men are intimidated particularly if the woman has a higher level of education than they do. This isn't all men but I've definitely seen it.

[giramomma]

Apr 15, 2015 6:06:30 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Yeah, let's face it, young, attractive women likely have an easy time of it.

I'm not classically attractive. Even when I was fit, I was never a size two, well, maybe in like junior high. A size 8-10 has always been a better size for me. Never completely well coifed (I have curly hair that insists on doing it's own thing) and never wore much make up after Jr. High "experimentation." The best most people could do with me is "cute."

I still never had problems finding men. Once in college I had the pleasure of having two different men go after me in a club once. That was pretty fun.

Crap, I'm no catch now, thanks to me not taking care of myself and some health issues. I still had some college kid flirting with me on the bus maybe 6 months ago. I doubt he was gay. Could have been, but my gaydar is pretty good.

I also don't necessarily equate education with intelligence. I work with some PhDs in STEM fields. Dudes are brilliant. Doesn't necessarily make them life-smart or interesting. All of the parents at are my kids' school are well educated. I'm surprised at what comes out of their mouth sometimes. And it's not surprised in a good way.

I also dated a dude who was a aspiring to be Joe the Plumber. He, and some of the poor families that I used to work with may not have been book smart, but they were still smart and "got it" more than well-educated upper middle class/wealthy folks do.

[justme]

I think guys have it easier. They don't have to walk the societal tight rope that women do. I've known guy friends that complain about always having to ask a girl out and then turn around saying a girl is too needy because she asked him out on the second date.

Guys complain about always messaging first in online dating but a vast majority of the time I did message first I never got a reply. (Yes I realize guys have a low return rate to but on a paid site I messaged at least 15 guys and the only one to respond responded with sorry have a gf now)

And that's before even getting to the point in funding guys that aren't all beer, video games and getting laid.

[justme]

Apr 15, 2015 6:08:39 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Apr 14, 2015 23:33:24 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

I'd say that women of a certain education level (higher than a Bachelors degree) and age range (over 30) have a more difficult time dating than younger or less educated women. But men with unstable job situations ("unstable" doesn't necessarily refer to the size of their paycheck) will have a pretty hard time finding someone for more than a booty call.

It always seemed strange to me that women make the claim that education hurts them.

I've always been the opposite, I've always looked primarily at women who have a bachelor's degree or higher. I've actually only recently decided I needed to expand my horizons on that front and started dating women with associates or some college.

I'd rather be with a smart woman than a not smart women. I like intelligent discussions.

I deleted the email, but one dating site sent one out about the percentages of each education that get a message. A women with an M.B.A.was less than ten percent of the time and a masters or PhD wasn't much better. However bachelor's or some college or hs degree both had significantly higher message rates. I don't fully remember the guy ones but it wasn't that stark.

I've never got a message on that particular site.

Eta whoops got it wrong it was based on likes so the numbers weren't as strong but women with bachelor's got the most while men with M.D. or M.B.A. were basically tied for the most with bachelor's at the bottom.

[The Captain]

I've been out of the dating pool for over 20 years so my perspective is....(badum dum!) out of date...

However I think it's equally difficult for both genders to put themselves out there and make themselves vulnerable.

Available pool, education levels, everything else aside...in the end it comes down to wanting to form an emotional attachment.  In order to do that you have to leave yourself exposed.

[Phoenix84]

Apr 15, 2015 8:31:27 GMT -5 justme said:

I think guys have it easier. They don't have to walk the societal tight rope that women do. I've known guy friends that complain about always having to ask a girl out and then turn around saying a girl is too needy because she asked him out on the second date.

Guys complain about always messaging first in online dating but a vast majority of the time I did message first I never got a reply. (Yes I realize guys have a low return rate to but on a paid site I messaged at least 15 guys and the only one to respond responded with sorry have a gf now)

And that's before even getting to the point in funding guys that aren't all beer, video games and getting laid.

I wouldn't read too much into the low response to emails. I'm on a dating site now. I've sent out over 40 emails and only got 3 responses. 1 in 15 isn't bad.

[justme]

Apr 15, 2015 8:46:18 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Apr 15, 2015 8:31:27 GMT -5 justme said:

I think guys have it easier. They don't have to walk the societal tight rope that women do. I've known guy friends that complain about always having to ask a girl out and then turn around saying a girl is too needy because she asked him out on the second date.

Guys complain about always messaging first in online dating but a vast majority of the time I did message first I never got a reply. (Yes I realize guys have a low return rate to but on a paid site I messaged at least 15 guys and the only one to respond responded with sorry have a gf now)

And that's before even getting to the point in funding guys that aren't all beer, video games and getting laid.

I wouldn't read too much into the low response to emails. I'm on a dating site now. I've sent out over 40 emails and only got 3 responses. 1 in 15 isn't bad.

Yea, but that was just one site. It's really low over all. (I honestly can't remember the last time a guy responded to me messaging first, though I do rarely do it anymore since it doesn't get results) And I have girl friends that rarely get any responses when they message first too. Even though if you ask a guy they'd "love" to have the girl message first and would respond they just don't.

I get that guys have low response rates too, but there's definitely negative societal norms associated with women who make the first move (slut, desperate, crazy) that guys don't contend with.

[Phoenix84]

Wait, so having a bachelors degree hurts me? You said guys with bachelors degrees get the least likes.

[Phoenix84]

I would respond to women who message me first, but the few who do aren't really the types I'm interested in.

[Phoenix84]

Apr 15, 2015 8:57:59 GMT -5 justme said:

Apr 15, 2015 8:46:18 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I wouldn't read too much into the low response to emails. I'm on a dating site now. I've sent out over 40 emails and only got 3 responses. 1 in 15 isn't bad.

Yea, but that was just one site. It's really low over all. (I honestly can't remember the last time a guy responded to me messaging first, though I do rarely do it anymore since it doesn't get results) And I have girl friends that rarely get any responses when they message first too. Even though if you ask a guy they'd "love" to have the girl message first and would respond they just don't.

I get that guys have low response rates too, but there's definitely negative societal norms associated with women who make the first move (slut, desperate, crazy) that guys don't contend with.

What does get results?

Must be nice to post a profile and get emails rolling in.

[zibazinski]

I think I must have just been lucky when it came to dating. Except for the time that I took to decide where I was at in relation to dating and what I wanted, I never had much of an issue. But, I actually didn't care whether I dated or didn't. I like my own company and I enjoy being alone. I'm never lonely. 

[justme]

Apr 15, 2015 9:05:16 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Wait, so having a bachelors degree hurts me? You said guys with bachelors degrees get the least likes.

They didn't have less than bachelor's on the list so presumably they'd get less than one with a bachelor's. My assumptions is women equate higher degrees to more money/power.

That's also only one site.

[justme]

Apr 15, 2015 9:15:53 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Apr 15, 2015 8:57:59 GMT -5 justme said:

Yea, but that was just one site. It's really low over all. (I honestly can't remember the last time a guy responded to me messaging first, though I do rarely do it anymore since it doesn't get results) And I have girl friends that rarely get any responses when they message first too. Even though if you ask a guy they'd "love" to have the girl message first and would respond they just don't.

I get that guys have low response rates too, but there's definitely negative societal norms associated with women who make the first move (slut, desperate, crazy) that guys don't contend with.

What does get results?

Must be nice to post a profile and get emails rolling in.

Lol. Hell if I know. Trying to rethink my own so I don't get as many god awful messages or at least get messages I want to reply to.

[HoneyBBQ]

Men have it easier.

Women internalize failure and think it's because their ass is too big or their boobs or too small. We spend thousands of dollars trying to stay pretty. We have to order salad at dinner. Self esteem is a huge problem.

How often do you see a super dressed up gorgeous woman dressed with some guy wearing a wife beater and droopy jeans who looks like he needs a shower?

Me? I hated dating. And as I've posted before, men HAVE had problems with my education level. And the fact I don't put up with any bullshit and can stand on my own two feet. I don't need anyone to take care of me. That throws a lot of men for a loop, too.

I'm fairly attractive and thin... I have no problem attracting men... but once they get to know me... they're gone!

[yogiii]

Apr 15, 2015 10:00:04 GMT -5 HoneyBBQ said:

Men have it easier.

 
I'm fairly attractive and thin... I have no problem attracting men... but once they get to know me... they're gone!

I agree.

I'd say there is a 75% chance I'd still be single if DH and I hadn't gotten together when we did.

In college I was dating a guy who at some point made it clear he would want me to be a SAHM.  Don't get me wrong, anyone who reads my posts know I can't wait to stop working, but that's not the type of relationship I was looking for.  I don't want someone telling me what I can and can't do!

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Threads like this are a good reminder that I didn't miss out on anything by skipping the dating scene and ending up with DH (boyfriend #2).

It wasn't for lack of wanting a boyfriend or trying. Like Honey once guys got to know me they were gone.

I got told by several "well meaning" people that I was too assertive I needed to tone myself down b/c men don't like women who assert themselves. I also had it suggested to me on several occasions I needed to downplay my intelligence b/c men don't like it when women are smarter than them.

Screw that. If a guy can't handle me as I am then he isn't worth my time. I stayed single for a long time.

Despite all the warnings I managed to meet and marry someone despite my so called "man hating" traits.  He wouldn't have me any other way.

I'd say men have it easier b/c in general if you are employed and can buy drinks you will end up with a "date" in some form.  Women have it harder b/c the list men (again in general) have in their heads tends to fit a very narrow range unless you are willing to fake your personality.

I'd say anyone who is looking for a lifetime partner is going to have a harder time than people who are looking for something more casual.  What I am willing to put up with for a fling isn't always something I'd put up with in a long term partner.

 

[souldoubt]

Apr 15, 2015 10:00:04 GMT -5 HoneyBBQ said:

Men have it easier.

Women internalize failure and think it's because their ass is too big or their boobs or too small. We spend thousands of dollars trying to stay pretty. We have to order salad at dinner. Self esteem is a huge problem.

Like Dave Chapelle said in one of skits why do you think men have nice things?  If a guy could get laid living in a cardboard box he'd be living in a cardboard box.  Women want nice things so men want nice things.  Men spend thousands of dollars impressing women, trying to keep up appearances and so on.  It cuts both ways.  

[Angel!]

Apr 15, 2015 7:03:37 GMT -5 giramomma said:

I also don't necessarily equate education with intelligence.

x 1,000

A college degree in no way makes someone intelligent. And in general I could see that more education could hurt women & help men. Men don't want to feel inferior in a relationship & a woman with a higher education or higher income is a threat.

I think if you are older & especially if you have a kid, dating is far harder for women. But, I suppose there are strikes against anyone, it just varies depending on your sex.

For women these would make it harder:
- average to poor looks
- kids
- High income
- High education

For men:
- Unstable job
- Low income
- low education

That is all I can think of, but I'm sure there are a lot more.

[souldoubt]

Apr 15, 2015 7:03:37 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Apr 15, 2015 6:06:30 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Yeah, let's face it, young, attractive women likely have an easy time of it.

I'm not classically attractive. Even when I was fit, I was never a size two, well, maybe in like junior high. A size 8-10 has always been a better size for me. Never completely well coifed (I have curly hair that insists on doing it's own thing) and never wore much make up after Jr. High "experimentation." The best most people could do with me is "cute."

I still never had problems finding men. Once in college I had the pleasure of having two different men go after me in a club once. That was pretty fun.

Crap, I'm no catch now, thanks to me not taking care of myself and some health issues. I still had some college kid flirting with me on the bus maybe 6 months ago. I doubt he was gay. Could have been, but my gaydar is pretty good.

Again - guys are less picky.  I'm not saying that to be an ass (women are way too hard on themselves and we do find them attractive) but a lot of guys will throw something out just to see if they get a bite.  At a club anything can happen and if you didn't play along those guys would have moved on to the next girl who caught their eye.        

[justme]

Lol the end of angels post pretty much sums it up. The better guys do in life the bigger their pool gets, but the better women do in life the smaller their pool gets.