billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 20, 2015 20:21:55 GMT -5
To Bills and Tennesseer, We are not arguing polar opposite views of the discussion. ... Do not attempt to find any common ground with me.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Apr 20, 2015 20:22:20 GMT -5
... Please adjust the quote you are attributing to me. It was not mine. It was from an article that Tennesseer posted. ... Fixed. Sorry about that. What was fixed? It is still there.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Apr 20, 2015 20:22:44 GMT -5
To Bills and Tennesseer, We are not arguing polar opposite views of the discussion. ... Do not attempt to find any common ground with me. ok
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Apr 20, 2015 20:24:11 GMT -5
Bills, I am referring to you saying I beat my wife. ASS
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Apr 20, 2015 22:06:39 GMT -5
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 20, 2015 22:12:37 GMT -5
What was fixed? It is still there. I adjusted the quote so it wasn't attributed to you.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 20, 2015 22:14:44 GMT -5
Bills, I am referring to you saying I beat my wife. ASS Standard way to explain the type of statements you chose to quote.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Apr 20, 2015 22:17:46 GMT -5
Bills, as you suggested no common ground between us, do not bother with any explanations for such shenanigans to me. I understand. ty
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Post by EVT1 on Apr 20, 2015 23:25:30 GMT -5
The video I saw showed him literally dragged to the van. It did not show what happened before he was dragged in handcuffs. His legs looked "listless" as he was dragged. The video did seem he was crying in pain at the time. He was obviouslt alive when placed in the van. The question is- how did his fucking spine get 80% severed at his neck?
And since when does screaming in pain matter to some cops- remember last week- 'Fuck your breath'- after the old man shot him to death with a .357 he thought was a taser.
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Post by happyhoix on Apr 21, 2015 6:52:47 GMT -5
To Bills and Tennesseer, We are not arguing polar opposite views of the discussion. We are in semi-agreement of the issue. I am differing in that I am saying the court is stacked against minorities (and the poor) through the use of differing abilities of attorneys. Public defenders are notoriously over worked, and many are straight from the University with their degrees. Then there is the issue of highly paid attorneys having a relationship with the prosecutor's office where they can plea bargain down with time served, etc, that does not fly with the newly minted attorneys. p.s. I have tried three times to post this, and lost it some how. It should have been posted about five messages back, right after I quoted from the WSJ article. So VB, are you ok that our society tolerates a system of justice that hands out stiff punishments for poor people who can't afford to hire a really good lawyer while rich criminals are able to buy their way out of punishment? Is that how our founding fathers intended this system to work, do you think? Preferential treatment in the justice system for the rich while the poor rot in prison?
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Post by Value Buy on Apr 21, 2015 7:51:50 GMT -5
To Bills and Tennesseer, We are not arguing polar opposite views of the discussion. We are in semi-agreement of the issue. I am differing in that I am saying the court is stacked against minorities (and the poor) through the use of differing abilities of attorneys. Public defenders are notoriously over worked, and many are straight from the University with their degrees. Then there is the issue of highly paid attorneys having a relationship with the prosecutor's office where they can plea bargain down with time served, etc, that does not fly with the newly minted attorneys. p.s. I have tried three times to post this, and lost it some how. It should have been posted about five messages back, right after I quoted from the WSJ article. So VB, are you ok that our society tolerates a system of justice that hands out stiff punishments for poor people who can't afford to hire a really good lawyer while rich criminals are able to buy their way out of punishment? Is that how our founding fathers intended this system to work, do you think? Preferential treatment in the justice system for the rich while the poor rot in prison? Am I ok with it? Absolutly not. Please remember, I started this thread about police over reacting in police stops. It is also my premise poor people get the short end of the stick in the court system. I thought that was kind of obvious in my posts. I just disagree that it is an overt racist court doing it. It has, imo, to do with an inept court and public defender system. Are there overt racist courts somewhere? Yes, I assume so. In northwest Indiana we just had a good multiday article on drunk driving convictions in our three county area. In the largest county, Lake county the prosecutor's office, incidentallly run by a black professional, in a large minority based, but still more white than black population, pleads down drunk driving to a lessor charge almost twice as often as the two overwhelming, smaller white majority population counties. Is this because there are more black drivers pulled over for dui's and the prosecutor is over looking these cases? No, it is because the prosecutor's office is overwhelmed with what is considered more heinous crimes, which are even easier to prove than dui cases when actually fought in court by the defendants. Lake county has to pick their battles to win, and dui is not the 100% battle of choice. This does not make any of the three counties more, or even less racist. It does mean dui enforcement and penalties occur to more black drivers in these counties than represents the minority population but they are more of a drive through the area to reach another location, and not a driving while black experience. Most are stopped for running stop signs or signals, or actual accidents occurring. Each county expects different levels of service, and specific types of crime to be enforced in different ways of enforcement. Does this make it right? In my opinion, no. All laws should be enforced the same, in every county, in every court, but in reality, we all know there are 40 shades of gray.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Apr 21, 2015 8:14:16 GMT -5
You seemed a little glib about poor people getting shafted because they don't hire good lawyers to defend them, so I was getting the impression that you felt like they got what they deserved because they were poor.
I apologize. Sometimes it feels like being poor deserves punishment - poor people shouldn't be able to have health care if they can't pay for it themselves, poor people shouldn't be able to buy a steak with food stamps, poor women shouldn't be allowed to keep their kids if they can't support them, poor people should find the money for a good lawyer or accept that they will sit in jail.
At the same time, the ultra wealthy can afford to pay for politicians who repeal a tax law that benefits only the ultra wealthy, and a lot of people seem pleased as punch about that.
We're not supposed to encourage talk of 'class warfare' but it surely feels like war sometimes, and it isn't the lower and middle classes who are winning.
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Post by Value Buy on Apr 21, 2015 9:43:11 GMT -5
You seemed a little glib about poor people getting shafted because they don't hire good lawyers to defend them, so I was getting the impression that you felt like they got what they deserved because they were poor. I apologize. Sometimes it feels like being poor deserves punishment - poor people shouldn't be able to have health care if they can't pay for it themselves, poor people shouldn't be able to buy a steak with food stamps, poor women shouldn't be allowed to keep their kids if they can't support them, poor people should find the money for a good lawyer or accept that they will sit in jail. At the same time, the ultra wealthy can afford to pay for politicians who repeal a tax law that benefits only the ultra wealthy, and a lot of people seem pleased as punch about that. We're not supposed to encourage talk of 'class warfare' but it surely feels like war sometimes, and it isn't the lower and middle classes who are winning. "glib about poor people" I guess perception is reality.. but whose "reality"? Yesterday I said to two posters we were probably closer to agreement than it looked. That was my perception. I was told a I was totally wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 10:12:07 GMT -5
That's the whole point. We don't know. Anything could of happened to precipitate the shooting. He could of called out "my well armed buddies are just around the corner". Any hypothetical stories at this point, are as always, make believe. Yes but fortunately, in this instance, we have video camera of the whole thing except a few seconds. What are the odds that he claimed he would get his bazooka or his 40 heavily armed friends from just around the corner in those few seconds? Occam's razor - no, we didn't see or hear what happened in those few seconds, but reasonable people can surmise that it was not something so realistically threatening the cop had a legal right to defend himself from a fleeing criminal. Frankly I'm kind of shocked you would imply there was any realistically threatening thing that might have happened in just that short time that would lead the cop to fear for his life. You have video tape of almost the entire encounter, you have solid proof the guy was shot while running away, and yet still you grasp at straws that this somehow, magically, this guy running away was actually putting the cop in fear for his life? I wonder how he covered a few hundred yards in a couple of seconds ? The second video started with him getting off the ground. Was this also part of the few seconds ? Occam's razor indeed ! Reasonable people can only relate to their own experience. What I find shocking is the make believe that people come up with to convince themselves of their own pet theories. I'm glad you found my armed buddies hypothetical ridiculous. You're making my point.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 10:13:45 GMT -5
Spare me your statistics lessons. 1) First you will have to tell me where I was just talking about a traffic stop pull over versus arrests. 2) Then you should show the percentage of whites versus blacks living in Ferguson. 3) Then you can move on to the unfairness of arrest statistics. (Hint, 80% arrests of blacks in a 80% black community shows the national average approach by Holder is mostly nonsense. This is one example of "special" considerations being perpetrated onto a formerly "just protected" minority. Our POTUS and his appointed minions are racist. How about an answer to reply #90 ? Here are some statistics for you: Statewide, black drivers “were 66 percent more likely than white drivers to be stopped” last year, Koster said in a statement in May.
While black residents accounted for 67 percent of Ferguson’s population, black drivers accounted for more than 86 percent of the traffic stops made last year by the Ferguson Police Department, according to a report produced by the office of Missouri Attorney General Chris Koster.
www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/08/12/the-breaking-point-for-ferguson/
67 percent of the population, 86 percent of the traffic stops. But don't let math and science sway your opionion. Keep clinging to it. If you note on item one of my answer, I wasn't referring to traffic stops, nor did I mention traffic stops. I was referring to arrests (for the second time). A list of statistics a mile long (with links) doesn't mean anything when it's not what I was stating (arrests, not traffic stops). Did you just fall off the turnip truck ? Don't let the reality of the posted text ruin any soap box preaching. Just keep repeating, it works for the liberal media.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Apr 21, 2015 13:14:57 GMT -5
Not nearly as well as it works for Rush, though.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 13:30:33 GMT -5
Not nearly as well as it works for Rush, though. He's a speck of sand compared to ABC, CBS, and NBC.
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Post by Opti on Apr 24, 2015 14:00:00 GMT -5
Not nearly as well as it works for Rush, though. He's a speck of sand compared to ABC, CBS, and NBC. Is he? I thought most conservatives only listened to Rush, Fox news, and conservatives. How would what is said at ABC, CBS, or NBC affect them? I think the target group determines who is relevant and not.
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Post by Value Buy on May 12, 2015 12:35:49 GMT -5
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Post by Value Buy on May 12, 2015 16:14:04 GMT -5
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on May 12, 2015 16:39:51 GMT -5
Your link shows a story that sounds like it's righteous. It's, apparently, confirmed by 911 calls received from witnesses of the young man's erratic and aggressive behavior. Still, it's a news story. I have a tendency to take all of those with a grain of salt. The "news" has become so besotted with sensationalism as opposed to actual news that I'm just not able to take it very seriously. I find, too often, pertinent facts are bypassed to allow for the inclusion of more prurient (and, possibly, misleading) material. I find myself chasing some events of this type for months just trying to find out what the heck really happened. Often, I'm left no better off than I was before I started.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on May 12, 2015 19:16:24 GMT -5
Your link shows a story that sounds like it's righteous. It's, apparently, confirmed by 911 calls received from witnesses of the young man's erratic and aggressive behavior. Still, it's a news story. I have a tendency to take all of those with a grain of salt. The "news" has become so besotted with sensationalism as opposed to actual news that I'm just not able to take it very seriously. I find, too often, pertinent facts are bypassed to allow for the inclusion of more prurient (and, possibly, misleading) material. I find myself chasing some events of this type for months just trying to find out what the heck really happened. Often, I'm left no better off than I was before I started. I agree with you to a point. My problem is there is just way too many "I feared for my life" quotes from police who kill black males, for my personal beliefs. I was an M.P. in the service back in 1969 to 1971 and know how some really innocent incidents could easily blow up into black white racial confrontation without much provocation. At least in the military, I was not confronted with armed military personnel who would go off the deep end and try hurt you. At least not armed. Fists were about as bad as it ever got. I realize these guys do put their life on the line, but there are just too many shot while black situations, and I am not comfortable with it.
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