Another police officer caught red handed

[jkapp]

Apr 10, 2015 16:40:50 GMT -5 Icelandic Woman said:

IMHO given what has been happening around the country I think screening and testing, especially psychological, should be reviewed and changes made for all law enforcement.

From what I've seen, I think the same thing for the general public wouldn't be all that bad either...

[Value Buy]

Apr 10, 2015 16:40:50 GMT -5 Icelandic Woman said:

IMHO given what has been happening around the country I think screening and testing, especially psychological, should be reviewed and changes made for all law enforcement.

Have you ever seen or filled out an application for becoming an officer?
The background checks are a big part of the application. Does it catch everything? No, but it is very intensive just filling out the application.
As far as psychological testing, I could not tell you what they do, but the application is long and not like aone page application you fill out for a lot of jobs.

[billisonboard]

Apr 10, 2015 18:35:27 GMT -5 jkapp said:

...
But, anyway, here are the issues I have with this incident:

1) it was a traffic stop, yet the altercation was in a park.  So, obviously, something happened that was more than just a mere traffic stop.

2) there was obviously an altercation happening prior to the cop pulling his gun...why is the media showing the shooting but not any prior part of the confrontation?

3) I saw one video from the squad car that shows when the victim was pulled over, he immediately jumped out of his car and ran away...WHY?? That sends a bit of a red flag to a police officer that you're possibly a criminal. 

4) Why do people keep f'ing resisting arrest?  When has resisting arrest ever ended in favor of the person being arrested?

There is a wealth of information that deals with 1 and 2. The third, the video I saw did not have him jumping out immediately.

[Icelandic Woman]

Apr 10, 2015 18:43:00 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Apr 10, 2015 16:40:50 GMT -5 Icelandic Woman said:

IMHO given what has been happening around the country I think screening and testing, especially psychological, should be reviewed and changes made for all law enforcement.

Have you ever seen or filled out an application for becoming an officer?
The background checks are a big part of the application. Does it catch everything? No, but it is very intensive just filling out the application.
As far as psychological testing, I could not tell you what they do, but the application is long and not like aone page application you fill out for a lot of jobs.

I didn't say that applying to be a law enforcement officer isn't a long and involved process but it seems to me that it may need to be longer and more involved. I don't see that as a bad thing given the things that are happening, do you?

[EVT1]

Apr 10, 2015 18:43:00 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Apr 10, 2015 16:40:50 GMT -5 Icelandic Woman said:

IMHO given what has been happening around the country I think screening and testing, especially psychological, should be reviewed and changes made for all law enforcement.

Have you ever seen or filled out an application for becoming an officer?
The background checks are a big part of the application. Does it catch everything? No, but it is very intensive just filling out the application.
As far as psychological testing, I could not tell you what they do, but the application is long and not like aone page application you fill out for a lot of jobs.

Actually it is large packet of things to fill out- went down that road and decided against it after reading through everything and went another direction.  Interestingly enough while in school for that I applied as a parole officer- much less intrusive- went as far as the oral board on that one- pulled my name from consideration after that and took another state job.  

The real trouble I think is these smaller departments that have to take what they can get- even if they come with a history of thuggish behavior, complaints, etc. like Robocop from the other thread- he even came with prior lawsuit settlements and a list of indictments- kind of a red flag if you ask me.  But hey- hey is still certified and legal to work as a cop......

[haapai]

Here's a link to an article in Slate that discusses the effect of wearing putting body cams on cops.  Unfortunately, it does not contain links to the studies that it cites and some of the most crucial finding could have been worded a bit better. 

I'll summarize it.  Cops appear to behave a whole lot better and use a lot less force when they are wearing body-cams. 

The numbers cited in this article are so dramatic that we might not see many more studies that randomly assign body cams to police in the same department or otherwise employ strong controls. 

[jkapp]

Oh no!  Another black man was pulled over by the police!  Oh, wait, nothing to see here - the black man was smart and polite and didn't start an altercation, so he was never harassed, beaten, hurt, or killed.  You know, just a regular incident between two responsible adults that happens thousands of times a day.  I would say its a learning experience for some people, but, then again, you can't fix stupid.

www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153225648080763

[Opti]

Well, we have no idea if this man did anything besides run. The cop lied about CPR.

With video proof of that lie, I have little belief that there was anything but a guy trying

to run away because he didn't want to go to jail. If he couldn't catch him via the Taser, the proper

response was to try to catch, not kill, him another way.

[EVT1]

Apr 12, 2015 10:08:22 GMT -5 jkapp said:

Oh no!  Another black man was pulled over by the police!  Oh, wait, nothing to see here - the black man was smart and polite and didn't start an altercation, so he was never harassed, beaten, hurt, or killed.  You know, just a regular incident between two responsible adults that happens thousands of times a day.  I would say its a learning experience for some people, but, then again, you can't fix stupid.

www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153225648080763

Oh no! Another black man pulled over by the police, was smart and polite, didn't start and altercation or run- and was promptly shot! You can't fix stupid with a badge either.

Think this was over a seatbelt violation   Gottta crack down on these lawless negroes.

[jkapp]

Apr 12, 2015 11:28:09 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Apr 12, 2015 10:08:22 GMT -5 jkapp said:

Oh no!  Another black man was pulled over by the police!  Oh, wait, nothing to see here - the black man was smart and polite and didn't start an altercation, so he was never harassed, beaten, hurt, or killed.  You know, just a regular incident between two responsible adults that happens thousands of times a day.  I would say its a learning experience for some people, but, then again, you can't fix stupid.

www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153225648080763

Oh no! Another black man pulled over by the police, was smart and polite, didn't start and altercation or run- and was promptly shot! You can't fix stupid with a badge either.

Think this was over a seatbelt violation   Gottta crack down on these lawless negroes.

That was a tragedy, yes, but still about an ignorant victim.  You don't just lunge into your car when a cop stops you.  You have to let the police officer know what you are going to do.  Too many cops have been killed because a "victim" grabbed a hidden gun from their car and shot a cop.  If he had said, "Officer, my license is in the car, I will need to grab it," he would not have been shot.

And if you don't like the reasons that "lawless negroes" get pulled over, then tell the liberals to stop giving police more reasons to "harass" people...like stupid f'ing seatbelt laws.

[djAdvocate]

Apr 10, 2015 12:10:41 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Apr 10, 2015 1:36:28 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

question, b2r:

is it OK to tase an unarmed civilian running away from a fixit ticket, then unload 8 rounds into him?

This partial cut/paste from an AP article might shed some light. <<<What's missing is what happens from the time the two men run out of the frame of dashboard video to the time picked up in a bystander's cellphone video a few hundred yards away. The cellphone footage starts with Scott getting to his feet and running away, then Slager firing eight shots at the man's back.

"It is possible for something to happen in that gap to significantly raise the officer's perception of risk," said Seth Stoughton, a former police officer and criminal law professor at the University of South Carolina>>> It's linked from MSN's homepage.

i wasn't necessarily asking about this incident.  i was asking a general question, based on what we DO know.

[djAdvocate]

Apr 10, 2015 18:35:27 GMT -5 jkapp said:

I think people need to watch Chris Rock's PSA on police brutality again...apparently its been too long:

Chris Rock - How not to get your ass beat (or shot) by cops

But, anyway, here are the issues I have with this incident:

1) it was a traffic stop, yet the altercation was in a park.  So, obviously, something happened that was more than just a mere traffic stop.

2) there was obviously an altercation happening prior to the cop pulling his gun...why is the media showing the shooting but not any prior part of the confrontation?

3) I saw one video from the squad car that shows when the victim was pulled over, he immediately jumped out of his car and ran away...WHY?? That sends a bit of a red flag to a police officer that you're possibly a criminal. 

4) Why do people keep f'ing resisting arrest?  When has resisting arrest ever ended in favor of the person being arrested?

fair question.  i have one for you:

when did resisting arrest automatically start resulting in the death penalty?

[djAdvocate]

Apr 12, 2015 10:35:09 GMT -5 Opti said:

Well, we have no idea if this man did anything besides run. The cop lied about CPR.

With video proof of that lie, I have little belief that there was anything but a guy trying

to run away because he didn't want to go to jail. If he couldn't catch him via the Taser, the proper

response was to try to catch, not kill, him another way.

i am most disturbed by what appears to be the officer planting evidence in plain view of the other officer.

[EVT1]

Apr 12, 2015 16:31:36 GMT -5 jkapp said:

Apr 12, 2015 11:28:09 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Oh no! Another black man pulled over by the police, was smart and polite, didn't start and altercation or run- and was promptly shot! You can't fix stupid with a badge either.

Think this was over a seatbelt violation   Gottta crack down on these lawless negroes.

That was a tragedy, yes, but still about an ignorant victim.  You don't just lunge into your car when a cop stops you.  You have to let the police officer know what you are going to do.  Too many cops have been killed because a "victim" grabbed a hidden gun from their car and shot a cop.  If he had said, "Officer, my license is in the car, I will need to grab it," he would not have been shot.

And if you don't like the reasons that "lawless negroes" get pulled over, then tell the liberals to stop giving police more reasons to "harass" people...like stupid f'ing seatbelt laws.

The cop told him to get his information- and he just didn't do it slow enough I guess......No pleasing the popo.  At least he lived and the cop got fired- probably has a large settlement coming too.

[happyhoix]

And if you don't like the reasons that "lawless negroes" get pulled over, then tell the liberals to stop giving police more reasons to "harass" people...like stupid f'ing seatbelt laws.

So what is your rationale for the police pulling over more people of color than whites? Is there some insidious liberal unintended consequence causing that, too?

Since apparently liberals are responsible for every ill the world knows?

[happyhoix]

Apr 10, 2015 20:41:37 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Apr 10, 2015 18:43:00 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Have you ever seen or filled out an application for becoming an officer?
The background checks are a big part of the application. Does it catch everything? No, but it is very intensive just filling out the application.
As far as psychological testing, I could not tell you what they do, but the application is long and not like aone page application you fill out for a lot of jobs.

Actually it is large packet of things to fill out- went down that road and decided against it after reading through everything and went another direction.  Interestingly enough while in school for that I applied as a parole officer- much less intrusive- went as far as the oral board on that one- pulled my name from consideration after that and took another state job.  

The real trouble I think is these smaller departments that have to take what they can get- even if they come with a history of thuggish behavior, complaints, etc. like Robocop from the other thread- he even came with prior lawsuit settlements and a list of indictments- kind of a red flag if you ask me.  But hey- hey is still certified and legal to work as a cop......

I read an interesting article about the Albuquerque NM police department in the New Yorker recently. That city has a very high rate of police shootings - 28 in the last five years, usually people of color and often homeless/mentally impaired people.  Over the last couple of decades there have been multiple studies of the department to try to figure out why this police department has such a high rate. One problem has been the difficulty they've had in recruiting officers, not only due to low pay, but because of their reputation. They've had to advertise as far away as NYC and offer a substantial signing bonus, and they still have empty positions. This means they are not as selective, since they need to fill empty slots, and they will hire officers who either got fired from previous jobs for excessive force, or who applied and were rejected from other police forces due to poor performance on their psychological evaluations. 

So it's becoming a vicious cycle. The city has a poor reputation due to frequent civilian killings, so they can only attract the kinds of officers who are most likely to also kill civilians. Add to that a departmental wide cowboy attitude towards the poor and mentally ill that goes all the way to the top, and you have a seriously dysfunctional police department. 

[Shooby]

Another tape surfaced of the cop laughing immediately after and another cop counseling him that they "wont even talk to you for a week or so". In other words, think about getting your story straight. WHY are cops not immediately and formally interviewed after someone is lethally shot? Letting them sit on their story for a week or two is wrong.

[Shooby]

Apr 12, 2015 10:35:09 GMT -5 Opti said:

Well, we have no idea if this man did anything besides run. The cop lied about CPR.

With video proof of that lie, I have little belief that there was anything but a guy trying

to run away because he didn't want to go to jail. If he couldn't catch him via the Taser, the proper

response was to try to catch, not kill, him another way.

Yes, they knew who he was. Show up at his house later and arrest him or send him a fine in the mail for his taillight or whatever. Wow.

[Tennesseer]

I know the criminal suspect needed to be stopped and arrested (he was armed and shooting off the weapon),  but wow. There is also the video from the dashcam from the cruiser that hit the guy at the end of the video.



Marana police video shows cruiser ram crime spree suspect

Apr 14, 2015 03:57 PM
TUCSON, AZ (Tucson News Now) -  Police released dash cam video showing how a police officer used his cruiser to put an end to a crime spree in February that stretched from Tucson to Marana.

In the video, an apparent gunshot is heard as the suspect, Mario Valencia, is seen walking down a street. 

Then, in a decision that Marana police Chief Terry Rozema says probably saved Valencia's life, officer Michael Rapiejko drives his cruiser onto the sidewalk and rams Valencia.

Valencia was taken to University of Arizona Medical Center in serious condition. He stayed there two days before being booked into jail.

Full story here:

Marana police video shows cruiser ram crime spree suspect

[Deleted]

Opti I read it that shooby was agreeing with you.

[Opti]

Apr 14, 2015 21:26:31 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Opti I read it that shooby was agreeing with you.

OK, deleting my post then.

[Deleted]

Apr 12, 2015 17:28:14 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Apr 10, 2015 12:10:41 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

This partial cut/paste from an AP article might shed some light. <<<What's missing is what happens from the time the two men run out of the frame of dashboard video to the time picked up in a bystander's cellphone video a few hundred yards away. The cellphone footage starts with Scott getting to his feet and running away, then Slager firing eight shots at the man's back.

"It is possible for something to happen in that gap to significantly raise the officer's perception of risk," said Seth Stoughton, a former police officer and criminal law professor at the University of South Carolina>>> It's linked from MSN's homepage.

i wasn't necessarily asking about this incident.  i was asking a general question, based on what we DO know.

I thought you were addressing this incident because of the reference you made to "unloading eight rounds into him' as happened in this incident.  Simply basing judgment, by limited information delivered, can lead to errors in same judgment,  hence my offering of extra information on the incident.  It was my ONLY reason for adding additional facts to the conversation.

[OldCoyote]

How about this video of a police officer stomping on the back of an 18 year old.

www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/central-phoenix/phoenix-police-detective-kevin-mcgowan-fired-after-alleged-police-brutality- 

See anything wrong with this?

[Deleted]

Apr 13, 2015 6:59:02 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

And if you don't like the reasons that "lawless negroes" get pulled over, then tell the liberals to stop giving police more reasons to "harass" people...like stupid f'ing seatbelt laws.

So what is your rationale for the police pulling over more people of color than whites? Is there some insidious liberal unintended consequence causing that, too?

Since apparently liberals are responsible for every ill the world knows?

Not every ill, but there is plenty of blaming that is justified. I'll save that history lesson for the proper thread venue. Your opening statement on this quoted post brings to mind an ABC report of Eric Holder accusing the police force of Ferguson arresting more than the national average of blacks. While hilariously showing a video of a store being looted in Ferguson by about 15 blacks. What are they supposed to do, just arrest the national average of participants?

[Deleted]

Apr 10, 2015 12:58:33 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

"It is possible for something to happen in that gap to significantly raise the officer's perception of risk," said Seth Stoughton, a former police officer and criminal law professor at the University of South Carolina>>> It's linked from MSN's homepage.

I am trying to think of what kind of scenario would pose risk for a police officer when an unarmed man runs away from him.

He shot the guy in the back. The unarmed guy. In the back. 

Did the think the guy would run around the corner to where he kept his machine gun stashed, then run back and kill him?

That's the whole point.  We don't know.  Anything could of happened to precipitate the shooting.  He could of called out "my well armed buddies are just around the corner".  Any hypothetical stories at this point, are as always, make believe. 

[Green Eyed Lady]

This particular shooting looks bad to me.  Very bad.  I'm so sorry for the victim and for his family and if things turn out the way they appear, I hope the police officer spends a whole lot of time in prison.  I've also read numerous other accounts in this thread of alleged police brutality.  None of them look like the actions were warranted and I hope those officers pay the same price a citizen would pay for these actions.

However....can anybody tell me what all these victims have in common?  I'll help you.  They are CRIMINALS.  Of course, their offenses don't warrant death sentences.  I'm not saying that at all and I'm not excusing one single action on on the part of the police so before everybody loses their mind over it, I've already said so.

What about spending some time having a fit over crime and the people who commit them?  I don't see one single post here stating what appears to be the only thing we know for sure.  If you aren't breaking the law, this never happens.  "I was running because I had marijuana."  "I was running because I didn't pay child support and there's a warrant out for my arrest." 

Again, none of those crimes warrant the death penalty and those who handed it down without justification should be punished.  But just once, I'd like to see people encourage these people to STOP BREAKING THE EFFING LAW.   Cause you know what?  I've never been shot at or beat down by a police officer.  Why do you suppose that is?  And no.  It's not because I'm a Caucasian female.  It's because I'm not a criminal.

[happyhoix]

Apr 20, 2015 10:06:51 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Apr 13, 2015 6:59:02 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

So what is your rationale for the police pulling over more people of color than whites? Is there some insidious liberal unintended consequence causing that, too?

Since apparently liberals are responsible for every ill the world knows?

Not every ill, but there is plenty of blaming that is justified. I'll save that history lesson for the proper thread venue. Your opening statement on this quoted post brings to mind an ABC report of Eric Holder accusing the police force of Ferguson arresting more than the national average of blacks. While hilariously showing a video of a store being looted in Ferguson by about 15 blacks. What are they supposed to do, just arrest the national average of participants?

Spare me your history lessons.

Possibly you need a lesson on statistics, though, if you think a video of 15 black men looting disproves the statement that Ferguson police officers arrest a higher than normal ratio of blacks.

Try this statistic - of all traffic stops in Ferguson, about 80% stopped were black people. However, of those 20 percent whites who were stopped, a bigger percentage were actually arrested.  

Which means the Ferguson police are far more likely to pull over a black driver for no reason, and end up letting him go with no charges, than white drivers. For the white drivers, they are apparently mostly pulling over those who actually behave in a suspect manner, hence the larger number of white drivers actually charged with criminal activity after a traffic stop.

Does that appear to be policing targetting at a specific race to you? Driving While Black?

[happyhoix]

But just once, I'd like to see people encourage these people to STOP BREAKING THE EFFING LAW. Cause you know what? I've never been shot at or beat down by a police officer. Why do you suppose that is? And no. It's not because I'm a Caucasian female. It's because I'm not a criminal.

Yeah I kind of think you being a woman has something to do with it. Can you think of an incident in the news in recent memory where the police killed a woman when attempting to arrest her? I can't think of one. Even the crazy woman in our city that was driving through suburban neighborhoods shooting randomly outside her car window, while wearing a bullet proof vest, and led police on a car chase - even she got taken into custody gently. Do you think the police would have been so careful if a man did the same thing?  What about a black man?

And also, believe it or not, there have been incidents where the police have killed people with no criminal history or out standing charges at all. There was a case a few years back in NY where they shot a man who was simply leaving his girl friend's apartment. Quite a few cases of the police smashing down the door of the wrong house, with fatal consequences for the people living there. Also a lot of cases where police shoot and killed mentally ill people. Here are a few recent ones:

www.cnn.com/2015/03/18/us/dallas-police-fatal-shooting-mentally-ill-man-video/

abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/florida-officers-shooting-mentally-ill-man-investigated-30174098  

www.cnn.com/2014/06/20/us/albuquerque-police-investigation/

I agree people shouldn't commit criminal acts, but not everyone shot by police is a criminal.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Good question, happy.  Before I made up my mind on whether or not this is targeting Black people, I'd have to know the percentage of actual drivers who are Black vs Caucasian.  If 80% of the drivers in that particular area are Black, then no, it's not targeting Black people.  However, if 50% of the drivers are Black and 50% are Caucasian (or any other split other than 80/20), then yes.  It appears they are targeting Black people.

There is a predominately Black neighborhood where I live.  You will rarely see Caucasian drivers in that particular neighborhood.  If I had to guess, I'd say you have 95% Black drivers and 5% Caucasian drivers.  You'll not see Caucasians driving in that area much because not many live in that area.  So?  If only 80% of the traffic stops were stopping Black people, you'd actually be under the ratio.

I'd need more information to decide, but if that information proves there is racial profiling or targeting, there is no question that needs to be fixed.

[Green Eyed Lady]

I agree people shouldn't commit criminal acts, but not everyone shot by police is a criminal.

Of course, I know that.  I was speaking about the cases in this thread.  I thought I had said that but maybe wasn't clear.

I can't see one of your links, but in the two I can see, both victims were armed with weapons.  I would hope that I would have handled the situation differently and not shot the men, but I can't say for sure I would have.  I hope I never have to make that split second decision.  I would hope that I would somehow know that the men were mentally ill and not capable of following my directions, but I can't say for sure I would have.  See....if you wait to find out, you may be one dead cop.  It's terribly sad and upsetting either way - at least to me.  Our great country is woefully inadequate in treating our mentally ill citizens.  That's no secret.  Perhaps our anger would be better directed at those who keep cutting the programs for those people rather than people who have to make a split second decision.  Mental health facilities are closing all over our country.  There is no place for these people to go for treatment.  They are sent out into the streets without the ability to care for themselves and yes...some of them are quite dangerous.  But that's a whole other thread....