Secret#7 "…but I hate being the breadwinner."

[qofcc]

And if the other guy you had it with left you, it really didn't exist, did it?

It existed for a lot of years, but one of his issues is control and the ultimatums were really a bad idea and I knew it, so I started having panic attacks and that made it worse. If I could have left well enough alone, I might still not have a ring, but I could have kept what I had.

[swamp]

I think you're romanticizing your past relationships, and they weren't as great as you're remembering them. If your previous guy had control issues, then it wasn't a healthy relationship.

[Deleted]

But the sex was great... so...

[swamp]

I've had fantastic sex with guys who were totally not marriage material.............I didnt' mean we were soul mates, it meant he was good in the sack.

[whoisjohngalt]

It existed for a lot of years, but one of his issues is control and the ultimatums were really a bad idea and I knew it, so I started having panic attacks and that made it worse. If I could have left well enough alone, I might still not have a ring, but I could have kept what I had.

Oh dear Lord, are you for real?? Do we really need to tell you that if a man is giving you panic attacks, it might not be love??

I am beginning to thin that you either making this whole thing up (bc I still have hope that people are not that delusional) or you need some very serious professional help.

Good luck to you, bc if you are not making this up, you are going to need it.

Lena

[bobbysgirl]

Mar 6, 2011 1:14:49 GMT -5 Lady Gaga Gaga Snerd said:

First of all, your dream is not his dream. He is telling you that loud and clear. He doesn't want to remodel and take care of properties. He doesn't want to be a landlord. Loud and clear. And, just because that is your dream doesn't mean you have any right to presume he should jump on board with that. Sorry.
You seem to be doing a lot of blaming. All of your problems and unfulfilled dreams are because of him. Start fulfilling some of your own dreams yourself. If there are things you want to do, go do them. And, the point of being married is to learn to have dreams and plans together. Maybe you need to look at what HE would like for a change instead of it all being about you.

I think she did assist him in his dreams by footing the bills on the self employed thing. BUT it appears this was done so she could reap a benefit. SNERD is right on with dreaming and planning together. Also, there are always ways to be flexible and compromise. Life can be a series of compromises when 2 people join together in marriage. Your thoughts should be more on the partner than yourself, and visa versa.

The OP needs to find a mentor that she can confide in that will steer her in the right direction. Her thought process is her worse enemy here.

[bobbysgirl]

Mar 6, 2011 14:39:01 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Mar 6, 2011 14:38:03 GMT -5 swamp said:

JFC, that doesn't exist.

Yes it does...I've seen it happen in Lifetime movies

LOL

[Miss Tequila]

Mar 6, 2011 16:19:52 GMT -5 qofcc said:

And if the other guy you had it with left you, it really didn't exist, did it?

It existed for a lot of years, but one of his issues is control and the ultimatums were really a bad idea and I knew it, so I started having panic attacks and that made it worse. If I could have left well enough alone, I might still not have a ring, but I could have kept what I had.

That sounds like it was a REALLY healthy relationship....

[qofcc]

Do we really need to tell you that if a man is giving you panic attacks, it might not be love??

I was having panic attacks after issuing ultimatums because I was scared the ultimatums wouldn't work and he would leave. Turns out I was right. Didn't mean I didn't love him.

[Miss Tequila]

Mar 6, 2011 17:30:14 GMT -5 qofcc said:

Do we really need to tell you that if a man is giving you panic attacks, it might not be love??

I was having panic attacks after issuing ultimatums because I was scared the ultimatums wouldn't work and he would leave. Turns out I was right. Didn't mean I didn't love him.

But the fact that he left you might suggest he did love you the way you think he did....

[swamp]

Look, if you have to give an ulimatum, did you ever consider that maybe that person wasn't right for you?

[Deleted]

But if she had just continued to be a door mat and give the other guy every thing he wanted, and not ask for a committment, and begged him for forgiveness for asking for a committment after six years... well, he would have continued to love her in that special scent and eye way forever...




I am not trying to be mean. I am trying to point out how unrealistic your expectations are.... I second the need for individual counseling first.

[swamp]

I'm still stuck on the whole description of the special scent and eye way.

Has anyone ever experienced it? I get what OP is talking about in theory, but I have no idea what it feels like. I can't be the only cold fish here..............

[qofcc]

Look, if you have to give an ultimatum, did you ever consider that maybe that person wasn't right for you?

Of course. That's why I gave up and went looking for a partnership marriage. Still doesn't mean I didn't love him. Doesn't even mean that he wasn't right for me. Could mean that I should have stopped listening to my family and not turned into a demanding bitch. I knew he absolutely hated people trying to control him and I went and did it anyway.

[Deleted]

qofcc... you contradict yourself completely there... and you are idealizing a relationship which does not sound at all ideal... and letting that relationship continue to influence your current one.


Swamp.... yeah, i actually felt that "kind of I could look into your eyes forever and I get drunk on your scent and I would give up everything and follow you to the ends of the earth and die for you" thing.... it wasn't love though. It was my first year out of college. I had a horrible first year teaching experience, i had no idea who i was and was unsure that what i had gone to school for and what i was going to do in life... i was in the perfect place to form an insane attachment and pour my energy into it... there was this good looking guy... it meant a lot more to me than him... he was very manipulative and not at all faithful.... it was crazy unhealthy... it was the lowest i've ever been... and thank goodness it didn't last long... but it was... in no uncertain terms ... NOT LOVE ....

[Miss Tequila]

Mar 6, 2011 17:39:56 GMT -5 qofcc said:

Look, if you have to give an ultimatum, did you ever consider that maybe that person wasn't right for you?

Of course. That's why I gave up and went looking for a partnership marriage. Still doesn't mean I didn't love him. Doesn't even mean that he wasn't right for me. Could mean that I should have stopped listening to my family and not turned into a demanding bitch. I knew he absolutely hated people trying to control him and I went and did it anyway.

You wanted to get married and he didn't...that's a major hurdle. I wanted to get married and have children. I loved my husband (then boyfriend) dearly, but if we had different goals it would have been a deal breaker.

[bobbysgirl]

Mar 6, 2011 17:37:29 GMT -5 swamp said:

I'm still stuck on the whole description of the special scent and eye way.

Has anyone ever experienced it? I get what OP is talking about in theory, but I have no idea what it feels like. I can't be the only cold fish here..............

In college I went out (once) with this guy that had gorgeous blue eyes. He would look through me. He sceeved me out. Does this count?

[Frugal Nurse]

I've always told DH that I don't care who makes more money, as long as both of us are pulling our weight. If he is going to work full-time, doing his best and contributing to the family, then I am happy. If he drops down to part time and then steps up his contribution to making the house run smoothly, that is fine too. He feels the same way about me. We've both agreed though that neither of us wants to work full-time or more to support a SAH spouse who does nothing but have fun all day. If one of us is going to SAH, we'd better be prepared to be the full-time home maker, and make the working spouse's home life as easy as possible.

That being said, I doubt either one of us will make a good SAH spouse. I get bored too easily and DH hates housework, so we both just work and split the chores 50/50 (well, ok more like 70/30, but only because I'm anal and prefer to do much of the chores myself because he just doesn't do them right!

Do I mind being the breadwinner? nope. It all goes into the same pot. And I probably spend more of the money than DH does (darned shoe addiction!), so it evens out!

[Frugal Nurse]

QofCC- you sound miserable. I sure hope my DH doesn't speak about me to other people the way you speak about your husband! I think you both need individual and couples counseling. When you don't respect your spouse, and don't treat them with respect, then your marriage is going to have a hard time surviving. The more I read of this, the less it sounds like it is about money, and the more it sounds like it is about you being unhappy.

Your husband, your life, his life, nothing will eve be good enough until you fix what is broken inside you and learn how to be happy. Other people do not make you happy, happiness comes from within.

Gosh, you kind of sound like a spoiled young woman, not a grown woman who has grown children. Run as fast as you can to a counselor and don't look back!

[qofcc]

I sure hope my DH doesn't speak about me to other people the way you speak about your husband!

Isn't the point of an anonymous message board to be able to talk about things honestly and receive feedback without the polite front you have to put on to your friends and relatives? I certainly wouldn't tell this to people he has to interact with.

[qofcc]

Sounds more to me that he had a pipe dream and fantasy but she tried to push it into a reality when he really didn't want too.

Absolutely not. I wanted him to get a regular job with a steady paycheck and work his way up.

He had a business when I met him. He appeared to be successful and was talking about expanding and hiring an employee, he ended up loosing the business by being irresponsible and getting behind on his child support payments and having his bank accounts frozen during the busy season and being cut off by his suppliers for nonpayment.

The next business came about when he was unemployed. There was an opportunity to purchase a restaurant business along with the building. The price was dirt cheap and he thought the real estate part would be worth it even if the restaurant didn't work out. When the seller couldn't produce reasonable financials or product cost analysis documents and kept showing us a notebook where he was hiding all his profits from the government, I didn't want to do it, but by then, DH had invested a couple of weeks being trained by this guy and was over the moon excited and positive he could be successful and he begged until I gave in. He didn't want to stay at the restaurant managing, he wanted to run around making plans for the building and working on projects he had going on at home, the employees were screwing up orders and stealing stuff and the sales went down and down until one day he came in and found cases of food gone out of the freezer and had a fit and walked out and said he wasn't going to do it anymore.

The 3rd business came about when the guy he was working for as an independent contractor lost his license for falsifying documents and he wanted to sell DH the business and come to work as an employee. Since we were looking at DH being unemployed with no unemployment (after he had just gone out and bought a new car - the first one we ever owned and I was already panicking about the payments) and they guilted me for weeks about how if we didn't try this all of the other independent contractors they worked with would also be unemployed with no unemployment and they didn't have wives to support them and there was this huge opportunity to make a profit. There was a huge opportunity for profit if my DH could have obtained the license necessary to maintain the contracts they had, but after a couple months of gong nowhere with the paperwork, I finally stepped in and researched it and found out my DH wasn't eligible for the license and it was against regulations to hire this guy, so DH tried to keep the business going a different way without the government contracts, but he couldn't get enough clients to make a profit at it because he's really uncomfortable with sales & marketing.

[Deleted]

Wow. I can see where it must have been hard to be the Bad Guy who says no to all his dreams. In my first marriage, I was also in a position where I had the money for things, he didn't (mostly due to his own poor decisions), and if I said no, I was the Bad Guy and of course, he never took No for an answer. I gave into a lot that I shouldn't have to keep the peace. You have my sympathy on that.

But, as Snerdley says, that's the past and it can't be undone. You need to think about what you want your future to look like, not lament what's already been done.

[stats45]

I have been criticized for this multiple times on the board, but there have been multiple times when people come to the board and I simply don't believe they should have believed their partners about money. I think more women than men seem to start these kinds of threads, so this is all I have seen for the most part on the board.

I remember a thread where a guy made more than his girlfriend(six figures) had hundreds of thousands in retirement and hadn't paid any household bills for years. The numbers seemed to always be (conveniently) about twice the girlfriend's numbers for income and savings, but it just seemed more and more suspicious to me. I didn't believe it.

I remember a thread about a guy unemployed for years (before the recession) where he didn't have a job before the marriage but promised he would after because he had this great degree. She wanted to buy a house and plan for the future based on this promise. Could be true, but my instinct was to not believe it.

In both cases, the women admitted that they would have already liked to be married, have a child, house, etc. Then they would say something completely contradictory like 'I don't mind just having a casual relationship, or whatever'. They clearly didn't like the terms of the relationship but had already emotionally committed so much that it didn't really matter.

I'm not saying people are liars, but I am saying that sometimes in life you have to choose between believing your hopes (his words) and your eyes. Part of the reason this situation is so bad (and the OP is so resentful) is because she choose to believe what he said rather than years of observable behavior, though his bad behavior did seem to be more pronounced after their marriage. And then, there are certain things you can reasonably ask to verify, particularly since when you are married since debts are held in common, income is used for the household, assets are shared (all of these in most cases).

If you become committed to something or someone before you have any way to verify basic information or in spite of contradictory actions, you are going to repeatedly give that person second chances. You have already made the 'decision' (have a child, be married, etc.), so you will be in no emotional position to change your mind and think about it objectively. You have to figure out what is going on before you make the commitment.

[Deleted]

Wow, stats45- have you been reading my autobiography? ;D

You pretty much described my first relationship/marriage- I was pushing 30, my bio clock was getting really loud, and I really wanted to believe all his dreams and promises. I did believe them and made poor decisions on that basis for way too long. I extricated myself from that mess, and DS, the result of my pesty bio clock, just left after a wonderful visit to go back to Des Moines, where he as a good job and owns a house. Current DH is in his home office toiling away on a banner ad for the freelance work he does.

But then women aren't the only ones who make bad decisions based on raging hormones!

[qofcc]

I think I want to try and maintain the peace for right now while I work on our finances and when we get to the point where I feel safe and we could separate or divorce without destroying both of us financially, then make the decision to stay or go. At that point, I will feel free to be honest about how I feel and not worry about the consequences of talking about it.

In the mean time, I’m trying to figure out what he could do to make me happy with him again. I was happy when I felt hopeful and grateful to him and he was doing nice things, I don’t see why we couldn’t be happy again.

He’s been nicer to my DD now that she doesn’t live with us and I’d like him to start acting like a grandfather to my grandson. I keep mentioning it and he at least speaks to him now like a person instead of treating him like an annoying pet DD brought home.

I was happy when we were working on projects around the house together until I realized how bad he was at estimating time and money. I’d like to find a way to do something like that again because we both enjoy the excitement of the process and the feeling of pride in the results. I’m not willing to pour any more money into this house, but his parents have said they’re willing to finance a purchase & flip or purchase & rent project with us later this year if the right opportunity comes along and his dad is better at estimating time & materials and his mom is better at challenging his financial estimates and she usually backs me up. They’re retired and looking for things to do and I like spending time with them. I just don’t want to get in the middle of something I can’t walk away from and I don't have the energy to work all week then spend 20 hours every weekend doing construction work like I did when we were working on the house.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

This message has been deleted.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Let me shorten this up for the OP: Kids are grown and out, and that part of life is over; now the sex has dried up, you're angry, cold, resentful and you blame him for your wasted life...you're not going to have to kevetch about this much longer. You're going to wake up alone. And that's exactly what you deserve. GROW UP. Be grateful for the life you have led, the kids you have raised, the good health you both still have and give your husband something your husband deserves but has never had: unconditional love. Whiny little brat. You make me sick. I want to slap you until your head spins around after reading this thread.

[stats45]

Athena, I completely agree that men can do the same thing. We just seem to receive a lot of threads started by women on the board.

[Deleted]

Mar 7, 2011 10:43:40 GMT -5 qofcc said:

I’m not willing to pour any more money into this house, but his parents have said they’re willing to finance a purchase & flip or purchase & rent project with us later this year if the right opportunity comes along <snip>I just don’t want to get in the middle of something I can’t walk away from and I don't have the energy to work all week then spend 20 hours every weekend doing construction work like I did when we were working on the house.

This looks to me like more of the same, even with a couple of reasonable people involved. Does it involve you and/or your husband taking on any more debt? Does it involve your husband quitting his job so he can play at renovating? Here we go again.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

I'm not big on irreconcilable differences, but if I thought my wife didn't respect me, wasn't attracted to me, and had bottled up a lifetime of resentmet towards me, and all of the sudden she let loose with a barrage of what is essentially her own narrow version of events with me at the center of her unhappiness...well, let's just say she wouldn't get the chance to leave me. I'd be packed and gone before the sun came up the next day.

To the OP: We never really know people-- at least, I'm convinced we don't. All we really have to go on is the story we tell ourselves about the other person. We rarely really hear people-- we rarely understand them. But it's made all that much worse when we allow ourselves to play a fouled up story about someone over and over in our head. It takes great clarity, and awareness to recognize when we're doing this-- it takes a lifetime of personal work to stop in the middle of the story we're telling ourselves about another person and admit to ourselves, "No. They aren't really like that. This is false. They are really like...".

We all do it all the time-- sometimes we tell ourselves a person is really better than they are (we do this one a LOT if we're like me-- optimistic, generally expects the best of people), and sometimes we tell ourselves a person is a monster (which we do if we're a little more cynical, or if our expectations don't get met).

If you can't tell, people like you cause me to be viscerally angry, but now that I've taken a breath I can see that this whole situation is really just sad. You've wasted a lifetime missing the great things about your life because you have been so narrowly focused on a narrow set of expectations, and the let down(s). You have missed all of your husband's good qualities. You've missed the blessing of an entire life together.

You're just messed up. I don't even think we need to talk about your husband and drag him into any of this because the issue isn't him- it's you. From start to finish, your warped perception of events, your negative opinion of your husband, have all centered around your perception (and that's mostly what it is) that you "had" to work, and you "couldn't" do what you really wanted to do. But in life we make choices and most of us do exactly what we want to do. Oh, to be sure we very often forsake what we really want for what we want right now-- and there's no doubt you did a lot of that. But you worked because you wanted to. You never communicated anything different. So, it's really unfair to now "start talking about this" with your husband because you've probably already done your share of dumping on him over the years judging from your attitude. And it's really unfair of you to now, after all these years, vomit all over him the years of the poison you've been feeding yourself.

You need help. Leave hubby out of it. Go do something you should have done a looooooooong time ago- go to work on yourself. Become a better person, because right now you're not worthy of the blessings you still have. Develop an attitude of gratitude for starters. Before we complain in my house, we have to make a list of 10 things we're greatful for RIGHT NOW as things are. After that- bitch away. Most of the time, if we're practicing the rule, we never make it to the part where we vent or complain.