Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Dec 12, 2014 6:25:31 GMT -5
I doubt there is one list for everyone. I'm guessing it would need to be molded to ones interests. You want to list yours and we can find you some options? The point is though that Tech said multiple times: "There is only so much cleaning, exercising, and cooking one can do." "without the kids home there was nothing to do" "I honestly don't know what people do all day long" "I'd go insane if I was just home by myself all day long every day" " I'm not used to just sitting and doing nothing. It isn't in my DNA." "being home alone would drive me nuts" Etc etc... She obviously sees only ONE definition for SAH, and ONE alternative... Work full time. But it's judgy to suggest that there might be alternatives? .... I guess I don't understand why you are so hung up on me not wanting to stay home. I am not talking theory, I stayed home and hated it once my kids went to school. I don't know what will make me happy in 20 years when I'm old enough to retire but staying home was not for me 8 years years ago.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 6:40:11 GMT -5
I guess I've said several times that people should do whatever makes them happy. My issue is with your tacit judgement that anyone who stays home is doing nothing but cooking, cleaning, exercising and sitting and doing nothing alone at home all day.... Its not that other people have found things to do to keep themselves busy and engaged and fulfilled outside of full time employment... It's that they must just not have your DNA or go get um personality, as they can be content to just do nothing... Not once have you acknowledged that there were alternatives between your SAH experiance and working full time... It was/is either all or...well, nothing.... But I am accused of being judgy... On another note though, it is always nice to have new examples of what the term 'begging the question' really means.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 12, 2014 7:23:02 GMT -5
I hope you'll forgive me for not reading all 5 pages of this thread. I just want to say that I don't like the thread title because I've stopped using the term SAHM, and replaced it with FULL TIME mom / dad. I just feel its time to be honest and admit that there are two kinds of parent- full time, and part time. Some parents choose to work full time and parent part time, and others choose to work part time and/or not work and parent full time. What I find funny is you would be the first one bitching if someone that chose to parent full time (in your words) received government services to do so Not really. It's one thing to recieve tax credits for being a dependent or not having income to be taxed on while someone else supports you. It's another to be getting SNAP and WIC and whatever else you can get because you don't work.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Dec 12, 2014 7:44:55 GMT -5
I guess I've said several times that people should do whatever makes them happy. My issue is with your tacit judgement that anyone who stays home is doing nothing but cooking, cleaning, exercising and sitting and doing nothing alone at home all day.... Its not that other people have found things to do to keep themselves busy and engaged and fulfilled outside of full time employment... It's that they must just not have your DNA or go get um personality, as they can be content to just do nothing... Not once have you acknowledged that there were alternatives between your SAH experiance and working full time... It was/is either all or...well, nothing.... But I am accused of being judgy... On another note though, it is always nice to have new examples of what the term 'begging the question' really means. To be honest, I don't really care if you take issue with my opinion. Staying home was not something that made me happy. I was bored out if my mind. The fact that other women enjoy it doesn't mean that I have to, as well. I loved being home with the kids but beyond that, I don't see the point of not working. I have no idea how sharing MY experience is being judgy. I'm not a "lets to tinker in the garden for hours" kind of person but I know other people that enjoy it. Sure, if I was filthy rich and could travel, go to spas all the time, etx then I would probably like not working. But my hobbies aren't meant to fill 40 hours a week of my time ...
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Dec 12, 2014 7:45:42 GMT -5
What I find funny is you would be the first one bitching if someone that chose to parent full time (in your words) received government services to do so Not really. It's one thing to recieve tax credits for being a dependent or not having income to be taxed on while someone else supports you. It's another to be getting SNAP and WIC and whatever else you can get because you don't work. And what about the single mom of the family that needs two I comes to survive? Not every person out there is a high wage earned.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 7:53:23 GMT -5
I don't take exception to your opinion. I take exception with your premise.
Everyone should choose to do what they want and what is best for them.
People tell me all the time. I couldn't homeschool. Well, I really don't care at all if you CHOOSE not to homeschool... It's a very valid choice. But don't tell me you couldn't, because the premise is faulty, you certainly could.
Same with SAH. I don't care if you choose to do it or not. But if the premise is based on an extremely narrow definition of SAH as cleaning, cooking, exercising, sitting around and doing nothing always alone and at home... Well your premise is faulty.
I would personally never choose to stay at home cooking and cleaning and sitting around doing nothing all day every day at home... So our opinions on that are actually very similar.
But that is not the definition of a SAH life....
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Dec 12, 2014 8:01:34 GMT -5
I don't take exception to your opinion. I take exception with your premise. Everyone should choose to do what they want and what is best for them. People tell me all the time. I couldn't homeschool. Well, I really don't care at all if you CHOOSE not to homeschool... It's a very valid choice. But don't tell me you couldn't, because the premise is faulty, you certainly could. Same with SAH. I don't care if you choose to do it or not. But if the premise is based on an extremely narrow definition of SAH as cleaning, cooking, exercising, sitting around and doing nothing always alone and at home... Well your premise is faulty. I would personally never choose to stay at home cooking and cleaning and sitting around doing nothing all day every day at home... So our opinions on that are actually very similar. But that is not the definition of a SAH life.... I honestly don't care enough to continue debating whether or not I should stay home. I highly doubt the activities that keep you entertained would keep me entertained because we are polar opposites of each other. I didn't enjoy staying home and I don't care if you think my reasoning is faulty or not
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 8:06:37 GMT -5
Well, I wasn't debating whether or not you should stay at home...
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Dec 12, 2014 8:16:02 GMT -5
...Bitch slap your cousins for me and never think the contributions of the SAHS is not of equal value to the spouse with an outside job
I got my husband his job. and I did EVERYTHING besides go off to work in the morning. All the house work all the yard work, all the financials and childcare. He could go on business trips all over the world on a moments notice and not worry about a thing on the home front. As it turns out he wasn't worrying much about the marriage either when he was on these trips, but that's a different subject. Ouch! Damn - didn't mean to re-open old wounds . But from the emotiocon I'm hoping you're able to laugh about it now?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Dec 12, 2014 8:19:58 GMT -5
I think the "I'm concerned about you if you can't find 45 hours of self-sufficient entertainment" comment was what sounded judgey. You are "concerned" if what you find valuable, I do not. You are "concerned" that my hobbies are expensive, or are more appropriately done in the evening or weekends. You are "concerned" that I could absolutely never be a full person without finding joy in what your definition of joy is.
I was really looking forward to that list. Because you seem to be bursting with ideas, but haven't given a single suggestion on what you can do that isn't working out, reading a book, or pulling your kids out of school and becoming their educational steward.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 8:37:36 GMT -5
I think the "I'm concerned about you if you can't find 45 hours of self-sufficient entertainment" comment was what sounded judgey. You are "concerned" if what you find valuable, I do not. You are "concerned" that my hobbies are expensive, or are more appropriately done in the evening or weekends. You are "concerned" that I could absolutely never be a full person without finding joy in what your definition of joy is. I was really looking forward to that list. Because you seem to be bursting with ideas, but haven't given a single suggestion on what you can do that isn't working out, reading a book, or pulling your kids out of school and becoming their educational steward. Can you please link to where I said that? Any of that? Thanks. I directly quoted Teqhila in my post. I have never suggested any of the things you are suggesting I did... Maybe you need to re-read? As as for the things in which people can engage which are not full time employment, they include but in no way are limited to: work part time, hanging out with friends doing free things, going to the park, taking advantage of library programs, free or inexpensive college classes, tech school classes, mentoring young people, hanging out with old people, writing grants, volunteering in ANY field (not just a school, depending on interests) dancing, hunting, hiking, gardening, being an advoctate, taking part in a book club, brown bag lunch circle, sit on a board, exploring the river, tube, kayak, bike ride, collect stones, build a wall, paint your toes, paint your elderly neighbor's toes, going to lectures, helping for a political campaign, attending talks by your politicians, visit your capital, go to free museum days, yard saling, crafts, singing, origami, walking in the woods, leading Girl Scouts, being active in your church, taking chair yoga, helping seniors at the senior center check their email, taking turns making lunch with friends, write, read, invest, research topics that interest you, sew, teach a class, listen to music, play music, learn to play an instrument, ferment cabbage, raise chickens, keep bees .... I could go on and on and on.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 8:41:19 GMT -5
I got my husband his job. and I did EVERYTHING besides go off to work in the morning. All the house work all the yard work, all the financials and childcare. He could go on business trips all over the world on a moments notice and not worry about a thing on the home front. As it turns out he wasn't worrying much about the marriage either when he was on these trips, but that's a different subject. Ouch! Damn - didn't mean to re-open old wounds . But from the emotiocon I'm hoping you're able to laugh about it now? Well, it wasn't a good time, especially when he decided to bring his Chinese girlfriend back to the states and eventually married her. Hating her from afar was easier, but having to actually see her and have her show up at family things. Ugh. I wished her dead for quite a while, but I'm over it. I was even the first person to visit them and their new baby in the hospital this week. Well, I was really there so DS could meet his brother and congratulate ex. I didn't try to slip anything in her IV, but I was secretly happy the baby was ginormous and had to hurt. ROFL
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 8:42:20 GMT -5
I would spend a lot of time with my horses if I was home with kids in school. They've been neglected for years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 8:59:09 GMT -5
Can, knit socks, local universities around here offer everything from free movie series with talks, to swim aerobics, to continuing education courses to free lectures and concerts, moderate a message board, take photographs, recycle, participate in neighborhood watch, jigsaw puzzles, do the books for a local nonprofit, learn a new language, whittle, chisel stone, host Friday movies with friends, play games, design fabric, invent something new, get a dummy book and learn something new, plant orchids, sit in the sun, take part in the community garden, help a person learn to read, mentor a new person in business or relationships, host your own blog or YouTube Chanel, review whatever you are interested in or know about, join a CSA, join a social club, play adult sports, start a pickup soccer game, join meetup and find people who like doing the things you like doing, go to your local state or national park... For the day, or for a lecture, check out what your local cooperative extension is offering in ways of programming. Read the What's going on here? Segment of your newspaper and go see what's going on here, join a writers group, edit content for a website, design your own web page, research your genealogy and publish it in a family book, enter a cosplays contest and spend a month scouring goodwill for the perfect components to make a costume...and on and on and on...
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 12, 2014 9:02:28 GMT -5
You're right. Not every person with two kids is a high age earner. Fact is, kids cost money. Something you should think about before having them. If you can't support them on your salary maybe you upgrade your job skills or have one or even, shockingly, none. I had a decent enough paying jb but it didn't pay enough to support my kids the way I wanted to. So I got another job skill and I sold and flipped houses. While also teaching. This made a huge difference in our lifestyle.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Dec 12, 2014 9:17:01 GMT -5
Ouch! Damn - didn't mean to re-open old wounds . But from the emotiocon I'm hoping you're able to laugh about it now? Well, it wasn't a good time, especially when he decided to bring his Chinese girlfriend back to the states and eventually married her. Hating her from afar was easier, but having to actually see her and have her show up at family things. Ugh. I wished her dead for quite a while, but I'm over it. I was even the first person to visit them and their new baby in the hospital this week. Well, I was really there so DS could meet his brother and congratulate ex. I didn't try to slip anything in her IV, but I was secretly happy the baby was ginormous and had to hurt. ROFL Oh my...I'm so sorry that he was such a douche (which confirms my statement that all men suck!lol) but lmao on the ginormous head!
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Dec 12, 2014 9:18:32 GMT -5
You're right. Not every person with two kids is a high age earner. Fact is, kids cost money. Something you should think about before having them. If you can't support them on your salary maybe you upgrade your job skills or have one or even, shockingly, none. I had a decent enough paying jb but it didn't pay enough to support my kids the way I wanted to. So I got another job skill and I sold and flipped houses. While also teaching. This made a huge difference in our lifestyle. But you are one of those moms that worked so according to Paul you were only a part-time parent.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 9:20:30 GMT -5
Geocache, learn to juggle, host a podcast, write a newsletter... For yourself, your family, a charity you support, if you usher for local college events you can sometimes get in for free even if they aren't free events, run for office, fly a kite, design shirts and bags on cafepress, host a podcast, participate in a contest, write your memoirs, do it in graphic novel form like the Persepolis girl, take free classes at one of the many online places offering them, watch ted talks to inspire you, tutor, walk dogs, spin wool, learn to change your oil, paint, enter a chess tournament, quilt, meditate, tai chi, give tours, host a fresh air child, build a model, d o crossword or sudoku, learn to program, design an app, host a foreign exchange student (neighbors acted as local contact family for college age foreign students, helping them a climate, giving them a place to be on vacations, etc), fish, go on tours of local factories or businesses, make stepping stones with recycled glass, help out family and friends, join a band... And on and on and on...
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 12, 2014 9:21:13 GMT -5
He's right but I do get points for not being on welfare because I had a good enough job skill to support them! Plus, it wasn't a 12 hour day job, thank GOD. I lived 5 minutes from where I worked and my kids went to that school or caught the bus from it once they were out of elementary.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 12, 2014 9:22:00 GMT -5
But trust me, I still felt I sucked at both jobs. Do I get guilt points?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Dec 12, 2014 9:33:28 GMT -5
He's right but I do get points for not being on welfare because I had a good enough job skill to support them! Plus, it wasn't a 12 hour day job, thank GOD. I lived 5 minutes from where I worked and my kids went to that school or caught the bus from it once they were out of elementary. But that was my point in my reply to him. You can't bash people who rely on the government while also bashing women who work.
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Dec 12, 2014 9:35:54 GMT -5
I hope you'll forgive me for not reading all 5 pages of this thread. I just want to say that I don't like the thread title because I've stopped using the term SAHM, and replaced it with FULL TIME mom / dad. I just feel its time to be honest and admit that there are two kinds of parent- full time, and part time. Some parents choose to work full time and parent part time, and others choose to work part time and/or not work and parent full time. Nope, whether you work FT or PT, by your theory, you are still a PT parent. If you're defining part time parenting as those that work then any work equates to a discount to FT parenting. It's really just math Paul. But the real question is what is the difference between a FT and PT parent to you Paul? How do they differ? How can the quality of their parenting be differentiated?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 12, 2014 9:40:23 GMT -5
Well, he can. Some women are smart enough to realize that depending on anyone to support you can be hazardous to your well being. Add children to that mix and you really can get into trouble. I could have managed and did without working two other jobs but me working those two other job afforded my kids and myself more opportunities.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Dec 12, 2014 9:44:55 GMT -5
I would rather do my job. Sorry that seems inferior to you.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Dec 12, 2014 9:49:13 GMT -5
Can ( food poising), knit socks (did once - size 2 for size 12 feet), local universities around here offer everything from free movie series with talks (This I've done), to swim aerobics (get the life ring - she drowning!!!), to continuing education courses to free lectures and concerts, moderate a message board (not always what it's cut out to be ), take photographs (after Apple who can compete), recycle, participate in neighborhood watch (ala trevon martin?), jigsaw puzzles, do the books for a local nonprofit (already doing this), learn a new language (after latin my brain is fried), whittle, chisel stone, host Friday movies with friends, play games, design fabric, invent something new, get a dummy book and learn something new, plant orchids, sit in the sun, take part in the community garden, help a person learn to read, mentor a new person in business or relationships, host your own blog or YouTube Chanel, review whatever you are interested in or know about, join a CSA, join a social club, play adult sports, start a pickup soccer game, join meetup and find people who like doing the things you like doing, go to your local state or national park... For the day, or for a lecture, check out what your local cooperative extension is offering in ways of programming. Read the What's going on here? Segment of your newspaper and go see what's going on here, join a writers group, edit content for a website, design your own web page, research your genealogy and publish it in a family book, enter a cosplays contest and spend a month scouring goodwill for the perfect components to make a costume...and on and on and on... Just messing with you oped ...your point is well made. I actually do a decent amount of these thing and work full time +. I'm not one of those people who will be bored in retirement if only because I'll likely end up doing the books/taxes for a few more nfp. Yes, nonforprofits have to file and pay taxes on payroll, non-related business income and sales of goods just like regular businesses. What I really look forward to is having the time to draw and garden like I'd want to.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 9:50:06 GMT -5
I would rather do my job. Sorry that seems inferior to you. Again, who ever said that? You still haven't quoted where I said any of the things you've accused me of saying.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 9:51:59 GMT -5
There are a million things to do Captain I was just trying to offer a variety sampler ... I wouldn't do a lot of things on those lists myself
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Dec 12, 2014 9:58:35 GMT -5
By far, my biggest issue staying home was the feeling of dependence and not being able to take financial credit for where we were. That bugged me. I remember my own cousins talking to me one time telling me how "lucky I was to have a husband that could afford to get me this nice house. Man, I flipped. It was like nobody remembered that I bought this land and built the barn long before we were married and put up the entire down payment on the construction loan with the money I got selling my first house. They didn't know that I was the one with the good credit, and the savings and that I worked three jobs for years. All they had to say was how lucky I was to have a guy taking care of me. This was just my own personal issue though. LOL At our school, I cannot tell you many folks assume that my DH is the one working a nice job at a university. You know, because as a woman, I can't work in a male dominated field at a public university. And, OMG, DH gets his nose bent out of shape I don't acknowledge his financial contributions to the family. But, everyone except for my ILs, actually, are quick to forget my financial contribution to our family. It's just assumed.
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milee
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Post by milee on Dec 12, 2014 10:02:20 GMT -5
At our school, I cannot tell you many folks assume that my DH is the one working a nice job at a university. You know, because as a woman, I can't work in a male dominated field at a public university. And, OMG, DH gets his nose bent out of shape I don't acknowledge his financial contributions to the family. But, everyone except for my ILs, actually, are quick to forget my financial contribution to our family. It's just assumed. At least your ILs acknowledge it. My ILs refused to acknowledge that I was actually a professional with a firm. Even though I was making more money than DH at the time, had my own Executive Assistant and managed multiple teams of other professionals, etc. they still referred to my job and described it to others as being "a secretary".
But then again, they were also amazed that I was "brave" enough to drive the car, so...
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Dec 12, 2014 10:04:43 GMT -5
At our school, I cannot tell you many folks assume that my DH is the one working a nice job at a university. You know, because as a woman, I can't work in a male dominated field at a public university. And, OMG, DH gets his nose bent out of shape I don't acknowledge his financial contributions to the family. But, everyone except for my ILs, actually, are quick to forget my financial contribution to our family. It's just assumed. At least your ILs acknowledge it. My ILs refused to acknowledge that I was actually a professional with a firm. Even though I was making more money than DH at the time, had my own Executive Assistant and managed multiple teams of other professionals, etc. they still referred to my job and described it to others as being "a secretary".
But then again, they were also amazed that I was "brave" enough to drive the car, so...
But your in-laws are "British". You know....THOSE PEOPLE. Enough said
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