AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 5, 2014 13:58:05 GMT -5
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 5, 2014 14:42:00 GMT -5
Someone's head ought to roll for that one.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 5, 2014 16:13:20 GMT -5
So rape and sexual assault on U.S. college and university campuses does not exist?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2014 16:20:06 GMT -5
So rape and sexual assault on U.S. college and university campuses does not exist? Aren't U.S. college and university campuses one of those area's where women aren't allowed to carry guns?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 5, 2014 16:24:35 GMT -5
So rape and sexual assault on U.S. college and university campuses does not exist? Aren't U.S. college and university campuses one of those area's where women aren't allowed to carry guns? A lot of good a gun will do a woman when her drink has been spiked with a roofie and she's out cold.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2014 16:28:25 GMT -5
Aren't U.S. college and university campuses one of those area's where women aren't allowed to carry guns? A lot of good a gun will do a woman when her drink has been spiked with a roofie and she's out cold. Are all rapes reported as happening that way?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 5, 2014 16:32:58 GMT -5
A lot of good a gun will do a woman when her drink has been spiked with a roofie and she's out cold. Are all rapes reported as happening that way? Of course not. You are old enough to know rape happens any number of ways and not all of them are preventable with a gun.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Dec 5, 2014 16:39:41 GMT -5
All I see here is that the fraternity's lawyers poked enough holes in the story to cast doubt. That should be a fairly easy task given that this is a top-ranked university that graduates lawyers. Heck, anyone who graduated from the university probably immediately started their own investigation. The fraternity claims they didn't have a party on that night, don't have pledges in the fall and didn't have a member who was a lifeguard at the pool. Of course, it's in the best interest of the fraternity and the university to poke enough holes that her story is discredited.
It doesn't mean it didn't happen. Like with the Cosby accusations, we don't know if it happened and we don't know if it didn't. We just know it didn't happen exactly as stated. So, now this will be another he said/she said and will go away.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2014 16:39:53 GMT -5
Are all rapes reported as happening that way? Of course not. You are old enough to know rape happens any number of ways and not all of them are preventable with a gun. Nor are all committed with drug use. Nice spin attempt though. If it wasn't, you should re-read my post till it sinks in.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 5, 2014 17:51:44 GMT -5
So rape and sexual assault on U.S. college and university campuses does not exist? Aren't U.S. college and university campuses one of those area's where women aren't allowed to carry guns? the two states with the highest number of rapes per capita are both concealed carry states.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2014 13:37:13 GMT -5
So rape and sexual assault on U.S. college and university campuses does not exist? Who said that? I am glad to hear this story might not really be based on facts. I was particularly troubled when first reading it about the accounts from "Jackie" that her friends would pick her up bloody and battered and not encourage her to go to the police. I had a lot of trouble believing that and now doubt that that is even true. I know things have changed since I was in school but I certainly would not consider those people friends by any stretch.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 7, 2014 13:40:47 GMT -5
So rape and sexual assault on U.S. college and university campuses does not exist? Who said that? I am glad to hear this story might not really be based on facts. I was particularly troubled when first reading it about the accounts from "Jackie" that her friends would pick her up bloody and battered and not encourage her to go to the police. I had a lot of trouble believing that and now doubt that that is even true. I know things have changed since I was in school but I certainly would not consider those people friends by any stretch.
I'll say it again. Just because this woman's story may not be true, does not mean rape does not occur on and off school campuses. What was the point of the thread author starting this thread? That women lie and sexual assaults do not occur? It's a PBP thread for goodness sake.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2014 13:44:00 GMT -5
Who said that? I am glad to hear this story might not really be based on facts. I was particularly troubled when first reading it about the accounts from "Jackie" that her friends would pick her up bloody and battered and not encourage her to go to the police. I had a lot of trouble believing that and now doubt that that is even true. I know things have changed since I was in school but I certainly would not consider those people friends by any stretch.
I'll say it again. Just because this woman's story may not be true, does not mean rape does not occur on and off school campuses. What was the point of the thread author starting this thread? Women lie and to prove sexual assaults do not occur? No one said rape does not occur. The point of starting the thread can be found all over the net.
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Ombud
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Post by Ombud on Dec 7, 2014 23:45:00 GMT -5
Actually I was relieved that it didn't happen
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2014 23:46:19 GMT -5
people that falsely report rapes are ALMOST as hurtful to actual victims of rape as the rapists themselves. It's because of all the false claims that real attacks are looked at so closely and investigated so arduously, before even looking for a suspect.
Which is why I believe that provably false (like the suspect was across town, with video evidence of that fact, so it CAN'T have been that person) intentional accusers of rape should face the maximum punishment that a rapist would face. Maybe if there was a stiff enough penalty the false reports would diminish.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 8, 2014 0:21:36 GMT -5
I'd love to know what really happened. Surely the reporter at the very least confirmed she had met with the sexual misconduct person at UVA and talked with her friends.
There was never any evidence except for what she said and her friends confirmed since she did not go to the police. No change on that. Not sure I believe though there was absolutely no party at the frat on any given weekend.
Did this woman get raped then but the reality was not so dramatic and she's made up this story to get attention? Is it totally made up? I don't know. I'm conflicted. The reporter made a questionable deal to not interview the alleged attackers and now the reporter interviews them after the story comes out? How does that work? Would you admit to knowing this girl if you knew she named you as an attacker?
Perhaps next time reporters should require a lie detector test for stories like this so those of us who read these national stories aren't trying to scrub horrific story images out of our memory.
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Ombud
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Post by Ombud on Dec 8, 2014 10:58:12 GMT -5
Assume you were sarcastic when you suggested a lie detector test but what about looking for corroborating evidence or friends reports or ANY evidence before assuming that someone is guilty and putting it in print. Don't we have a judicial system where you're innocent until proven guilty? At what point are we comfortable tossing that open to conviction by the media? Are we prepared to hand over that right? And if the majority is prepared to a constitutional amendment to that effect, what's next?
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 8, 2014 11:14:54 GMT -5
Actually I think a voluntary lie detector test in cases like these would give both reporters and readers some assurances its reality versus made up story.
We do have a judicial system and as we all know reading on this board people especially strangers get judged harshly for their actions without us knowing the full story. Conviction by media happens daily. Not that it is right, but its probably happened since the birth of media.
Unlike some here I did take the initial story not as full gospel. Were they really pledges, was she told they were pledges, or did she just assume so. Don't know. Same with the guy from another frat. Not aware of any frat that refuses entry to other frat members during parties formal or informal.
Another aspect of the story: Clark goes on to corroborate much of Jackie's story, saying she herself witnessed Jackie's intense depression and withdrawal from social life, and was one of the few people Jackie told about experiencing the assault. She continues:
While I cannot say what happened that night, and I cannot prove the validity of every tiny aspect of her story to you, I can tell you that this story is not a hoax, a lie or a scheme. Something terrible happened to Jackie at the hands of several men who have yet to receive any repercussions.
Whether the details are correct or not, and whether the reporting was faulty, or the hazy memories of a traumatizing night got skewed … the blame should never fall on the victim’s shoulders. Jackie is a victim, as are so many others, men and women, young and old. nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/12/uva-victims-roommate-pens-letter-supporting-her.html
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Dec 8, 2014 11:19:30 GMT -5
Different people have different definitions of the word "party." My friend always said he was having a "party" if there were two other friends at his house. For me, it wasn't a party unless there were at least 50 and 3+ kegs.
This was a freshman and there could definitely be some confusion over which frat. I got them all mixed up all the way through college and still don't know the difference between sigma nu and sigma pi. I went to my fair share of frat formals, date nights and socials as well. I even went to my fair share of parties on Rugby Road, probably even at the Phi Psi house.
As a freshman, I most definitely didn't know the difference between a true "pledge" and someone planning to pledge in the spring. I suspect the writer took some liberties with the language, just like WCP took some liberties with using the word "hoax" when none of the articles stated it didn't happen.
Still don't know if it happened or didn't happen, so no sense of relief for me.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 8, 2014 12:02:22 GMT -5
People want to believe its a hoax and all we really know is some of the details are not correct. A smoking gun that the story is just a story would be she never went to that sexual misconduct person when she said she did and both her and that person lied about that and the timing.
I don't know much about frats, but how can they guarantee they know for sure who works where and when? I just had a short term job for a few weeks and since it was temporary I did not tell my boss just a couple co-workers. Shouldn't it be the pool verifying or not this guy's employment?
One thing to think about is UVA either over-reacts usually or knows they have big issues with sexual misconduct as they call it on their campus. Why did they shut down the greek system as whole instead of just the accused frat? The frat and UVA have good lawyers. I think Rolling Stone should have tried to have her do a lie detector test and ask for clarification on various points.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2014 12:54:55 GMT -5
Aren't U.S. college and university campuses one of those area's where women aren't allowed to carry guns? the two states with the highest number of rapes per capita are both concealed carry states. What's really needed to mean something for that claim about those states is the percentage of the population that has a CCL and what percentage are women in the most raped age group. Also, are their college campus's gun free zones? If they are, the number of CCL's present doesn't mean anything.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Dec 8, 2014 13:05:31 GMT -5
By all means, we need to make sure all our women are all packing heat 100% of the time, because that's easier and more fun to do than actually figure out how to create a society where young men refrain from raping women even when there isn't a gun pointed at their heads.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Dec 8, 2014 13:08:34 GMT -5
I wish I had the time and/or the inclination to post about a trillion links of rape that did happen (not that I'm convinced this one did not). I don't suppose it would make any difference anyway.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 8, 2014 13:56:19 GMT -5
So rape and sexual assault on U.S. college and university campuses does not exist? Did someone post this? I sure didn't.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 8, 2014 13:58:04 GMT -5
All I see here is that the fraternity's lawyers poked enough holes in the story to cast doubt. That should be a fairly easy task given that this is a top-ranked university that graduates lawyers. Heck, anyone who graduated from the university probably immediately started their own investigation. The fraternity claims they didn't have a party on that night, don't have pledges in the fall and didn't have a member who was a lifeguard at the pool. Of course, it's in the best interest of the fraternity and the university to poke enough holes that her story is discredited. It doesn't mean it didn't happen. Like with the Cosby accusations, we don't know if it happened and we don't know if it didn't. We just know it didn't happen exactly as stated. So, now this will be another he said/she said and will go away. It takes a lot more than a technical argument to get a major publication like Rolling Stone to retract a story. It didn't happen. That's why it was retracted.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 8, 2014 13:59:32 GMT -5
By all means, we need to make sure all our women are all packing heat 100% of the time, because that's easier and more fun to do than actually figure out how to create a society where young men refrain from raping women even when there isn't a gun pointed at their heads.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 8, 2014 14:03:04 GMT -5
So rape and sexual assault on U.S. college and university campuses does not exist? Did someone post this? I sure didn't. "Another big fat lie about a rape that never happened which was used to tout the notion of "rape culture"."
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 8, 2014 14:17:36 GMT -5
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 8, 2014 14:26:19 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2014 14:37:57 GMT -5
"We are taking this seriously and apologize to anyone who was affected by the story." Like the 3 friends that were only worried about not being invited to frat parties?
Thanks RS for the apology
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