Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Dec 1, 2014 13:03:50 GMT -5
I couldn't tell from the video, but it looked like the kid was just sitting there, not trying to run away, not brandishing his toy gun, not sure why the police officer felt threatened enough to shoot him, except that he was a rookie cop and maybe scared/excitable/inexperienced. Very tragic. There is a lot of focus on the police officer who was sitting in the passenger seat. I think the focus should be on the one behind the steering wheel. That person set up both the rookie cop and the kid for the tragic ending. Bills, I cannot find whether the officer was actually a rookie. Was he? I believe the other policeman only had four years on the job too. I know I read their time of service somewhere, but do not see it now.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Dec 1, 2014 13:33:01 GMT -5
There is a lot of focus on the police officer who was sitting in the passenger seat. I think the focus should be on the one behind the steering wheel. That person set up both the rookie cop and the kid for the tragic ending. Bills, I cannot find whether the officer was actually a rookie. Was he? I believe the other policeman only had four years on the job too. I know I read their time of service somewhere, but do not see it now.
Dang, you mean I should do actual research to get facial info on this? I have to own up to being lazy on this one.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Dec 1, 2014 13:38:16 GMT -5
Bills, I cannot find whether the officer was actually a rookie. Was he? I believe the other policeman only had four years on the job too. I know I read their time of service somewhere, but do not see it now.
Dang, you mean I should do actual research to get facial info on this? I have to own up to being lazy on this one. Darn! I expected you to do it so I did not have to. I am retired now, and have absolutely no free time.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Dec 1, 2014 13:43:21 GMT -5
The driver was on the force for six years, the officer that shot the boy, was not listed as to years on the force from the two articles I have read so far. He was 24 years old, so could be a rookie. Will keep looking
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Dec 1, 2014 14:11:53 GMT -5
Dang, you mean I should do actual research to get facial info on this? I have to own up to being lazy on this one. Darn! I expected you to do it so I did not have to. I am retired now, and have absolutely no free time.
I have worked my way into one of those jobs with more responsibilities than actual tasks to complete. A lot of heads in the door questions to answer or decisions to make, some would you handle this call, and the occasional meeting. Leaves too much time to be on this board
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Dec 1, 2014 15:51:24 GMT -5
I couldn't tell from the video, but it looked like the kid was just sitting there, not trying to run away, not brandishing his toy gun, not sure why the police officer felt threatened enough to shoot him, except that he was a rookie cop and maybe scared/excitable/inexperienced. Very tragic. Look again....
At 27 seconds into the video, he was pointing the gun down the sidewalk, towards the right side of the screen. At 1:01, it looks like he's pointing it at someone who's passing by. The gun gets waved about frequently during the video.....maybe not at the police directly, but things are harder to see when he's sitting at the table under the cover.
I saw when the kid was walking up and down the sidewalk, waving the gun around - but that was like six minutes before the cop showed up. The cops didn't see that part. From what I can see on the video (granted it's grainy and grey) it looks like the kid is sitting at a table and stays sitting at the table when the cops drive up. Did the kid wave the gun and threaten to shoot the cop? Or did he just raise the gun from his lap, in the process of setting it on the picnic table in front of him, trying to show the cop what it was? Can't tell either way.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 1, 2014 18:16:43 GMT -5
But seriously- 12 seconds is an eternity. Plenty of time to comply with the order to stop / drop the weapon, etc. And 12 is plenty old to know that if you run around the park waiving a gun around, you're liable to be shot. I don't know much about Ohio, but it's a wonder a civilian didn't take this kid down long before the police arrived- which is really when you get down to it what bothers me most about this case. What kind of calls the cops on someone waiving a gun around IF they truly believe it to be real. And if they don't- if they think it's "probably fake"- then why not confront the kid, disarm his ass and tell him his parents can come get his "toy" back from you? The bottom line is this- if you act like a toy gun is real, someone's liable to believe you, and 12 is plenty old to know that. It's sad, but the lesson is: don't do stupid shit. As it usually is.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Dec 1, 2014 18:35:30 GMT -5
... But seriously- 12 seconds is an eternity. Plenty of time to comply with the order to stop / drop the weapon, etc. ... Please clarify where you see 12 seconds. It isn't the length of time from when the police car becomes visible on camera and the boy's body hits the ground. That time was much shorter
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Dec 1, 2014 19:52:54 GMT -5
Can anyone find an article stating whether the officer that killed the 12 yr old was a rookie officer? I have failed to find the info.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Dec 1, 2014 19:59:25 GMT -5
Can anyone find an article stating whether the officer that killed the 12 yr old was a rookie officer? I have failed to find the info. HERE YOU GO.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Dec 1, 2014 20:04:51 GMT -5
Thanks mmhmm He was a rookie. Sad.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Dec 1, 2014 20:13:16 GMT -5
Thanks mmhmm He was a rookie. Sad. I agree. The whole thing is sad.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Dec 1, 2014 20:26:19 GMT -5
I don't know much about Ohio, but it's a wonder a civilian didn't take this kid down long before the police arrived- which is really when you get down to it what bothers me most about this case. What kind of calls the cops on someone waiving a gun around IF they truly believe it to be real. What kind of freaking weirdo would not call the cops if someone was waving a gun around in a park?
Maybe the civilian was a smart one- told 911 it might not be real and let the proper authorities handle it instead of taking matters into their own hands. Not their fault the way it went from there.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 1, 2014 20:30:44 GMT -5
I don't know much about Ohio, but it's a wonder a civilian didn't take this kid down long before the police arrived- which is really when you get down to it what bothers me most about this case. What kind of calls the cops on someone waiving a gun around IF they truly believe it to be real. What kind of freaking weirdo would not call the cops if someone was waving a gun around in a park?
Maybe the civilian was a smart one- told 911 it might not be real and let the proper authorities handle it instead of taking matters into their own hands. Not their fault the way it went from there.
A rather bizarre statement you quoted, EVT.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 1, 2014 21:06:37 GMT -5
How do people typically act if they are genuinely frightened that someone is waving a gun around? The caller says the gun is "probably fake". What would lead the caller to say this? Could it be that the kid was NOT genuinely "scaring the shit out of people" or else someone else would have called, and people generally would have been freaking out? In my neck of the woods, if there are indeed "people" around- one or two of them is going to draw on this kid and tell him to drop it, and/or someone is going to get the jump on him and disarm him.
You call the police when there's real trouble, my contention, which might not have been clear from my earlier post, is that there was no real trouble. No shots fired, and nobody genuinely scared- or wouldn't it make sense that one of the people from the "scaring the shit out people" description of his activities would have called and reported having had a gun pulled on them?
I think the kid's real crime was playing outside at a park. Shouldn't he be locked up somewhere doing "homework" or whatever kids do? My point is that people call the police when they smell a fart these days. Put the fucking phone away, and mind your business.
And how long before we're all going to learn that in a world full of idiots, calling the idiots with badges and guns rarely makes the situation better.
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Dec 1, 2014 21:35:52 GMT -5
I come up with at least 8 minutes mister 'he's scaring the shit out of me', sat there before calling the police and leaving. Timestamp clearly visible.
What kind of criminal gets up and walks to the police as they approach?
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 1, 2014 21:46:44 GMT -5
He was12.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 1, 2014 21:47:09 GMT -5
A 12 yr old , thats who.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Dec 2, 2014 8:52:01 GMT -5
But seriously- 12 seconds is an eternity. Plenty of time to comply with the order to stop / drop the weapon, etc. And 12 is plenty old to know that if you run around the park waiving a gun around, you're liable to be shot. I don't know much about Ohio, but it's a wonder a civilian didn't take this kid down long before the police arrived- which is really when you get down to it what bothers me most about this case. What kind of calls the cops on someone waiving a gun around IF they truly believe it to be real. And if they don't- if they think it's "probably fake"- then why not confront the kid, disarm his ass and tell him his parents can come get his "toy" back from you? The bottom line is this- if you act like a toy gun is real, someone's liable to believe you, and 12 is plenty old to know that. It's sad, but the lesson is: don't do stupid shit. As it usually is. How was the kid acting like it was real? Was he robbing people at gun point? The video shows a kid play acting by himself, pretending to be 007 or whatever, with this toy gun. Not harrassing people with it, not sticking it in people's faces. If you really think kids should be shot for playing cops and robbers with toy pistols, then I think you should mount a national campaign to eliminate the sale of toy guns, so this kind of misunderstanding can't happen in the future - every gun will be a real one and every kid brandishing one deserves to be killed. That will go over like a lead balloon.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 2, 2014 8:56:54 GMT -5
If I'm seeing this video correctly, the guy in the gazebo, sat there for at least 8 minutes watching a kid he thought MIGHT have a gun and did nothing but call eventually? My ass would have been gone in 8 seconds.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 2, 2014 11:36:53 GMT -5
If I'm seeing this video correctly, the guy in the gazebo, sat there for at least 8 minutes watching a kid he thought MIGHT have a gun and did nothing but call eventually? My ass would have been gone in 8 seconds. IF you thought it was a real gun. to me, that is the entire point.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Dec 2, 2014 14:20:59 GMT -5
THIS SITUATION IS SO MESSED UP.
In no way shape or form should this have happened. Possibly rookie policemen (people) should only carry tasers when on patrol. At the very least if a two man patrol, the second person to get out of the car.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 2, 2014 16:13:29 GMT -5
If I'm seeing this video correctly, the guy in the gazebo, sat there for at least 8 minutes watching a kid he thought MIGHT have a gun and did nothing but call eventually? My ass would have been gone in 8 seconds. IF you thought it was a real gun. to me, that is the entire point. It sure looks like one and I'm not sticking around to find out but getting the hell out of there.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Dec 2, 2014 16:26:33 GMT -5
What?? What should a non- do if they truly believe the gun to be real? What am I missing here?
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 2, 2014 17:13:58 GMT -5
If I'm seeing this video correctly, the guy in the gazebo, sat there for at least 8 minutes watching a kid he thought MIGHT have a gun and did nothing but call eventually? My ass would have been gone in 8 seconds. IF you thought it was a real gun. to me, that is the entire point. I agree. I don't think the police had any business there, but once the people with guns show up-- it's very important to take note and act accordingly. 12 is old enough to know this. And video is fairly useless unless it's it's HD and there's sound.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 2, 2014 17:14:50 GMT -5
What?? What should a non- do if they truly believe the gun to be real? What am I missing here? A question worth your time to answer.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 2, 2014 17:16:26 GMT -5
What?? What should a non- do if they truly believe the gun to be real? What am I missing here? Oh, gee- I don't know-- maybe get your ass up and sound the alarm, "He's got a gun!!!" Maybe duck and cover. Maybe do something except sit there on their ass and call the cops about a "probably fake" gun.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Dec 2, 2014 18:18:51 GMT -5
... But seriously- 12 seconds is an eternity. Plenty of time to comply with the order to stop / drop the weapon, etc. ... I asked this yesterday and I am not sure if you (Paul) missed it or ignored it. What 12 seconds?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Dec 2, 2014 18:26:18 GMT -5
... And video is fairly useless unless it's it's HD and there's sound. Where I see value is it shows the way that the police car came onto the scene and the length of time from arrival until the kid is on the ground. A stop twenty feet away from the gazebo would have given both sides a better opportunity to assess and act in a manner that would have not resulted in the death of a young man. He might have still ended up dead but he and the police officers would have had a few more seconds to decide that no one needed to die.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Dec 2, 2014 19:19:45 GMT -5
What?? What should a non- do if they truly believe the gun to be real? What am I missing here? Oh, gee- I don't know-- maybe get your ass up and sound the alarm, "He's got a gun!!!" Maybe duck and cover. Maybe do something except sit there on their ass and call the cops about a "probably fake" gun. So if I see someone with a gun, I should get up and start shouting? That sounds like an excellent idea...if I want to be a great target.
Your original post I questioned said: "What kind of calls the cops on someone waiving a gun around IF they truly believe it to be real." Now you've moved the goal posts and the gun is "probably fake". Either way, I'm calling the cops. If that makes me a , fine. I'll be a live one. Feel free to be a dead shouting ducking he-man if you choose to do so.
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