billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 30, 2014 14:33:33 GMT -5
... Like I stated earlier, I am not sure why there is selective demonstrations where this is happening. There is a lot of subtle gray, it isn't black and white.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 14:34:45 GMT -5
Let's try to stay on topic and not drag other cases into this one, please. These things are confusing enough without trying to discuss them all together! Thanks. mmhmm, Administrator Its to make my point
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 30, 2014 14:36:06 GMT -5
Gosh, I don't know. MY kids were taught not to be in any house where there were weapons. Now they would only know this IF someone in the house started brandishing it while they were there. They both knew and it was re-emphasized in school to leave immediately. They never handled weapons until they became adults but that was my decision. I'd probably still not be handling them were it not for a crazy ex but now that I do, I feel more confident in being able to protect myself. I absolutely hate that I couldn't bring it to Florida with me. Safety with firearms is taught in a lot of schools but with things like FERGUSON going on, it would behoove responsible parents to once again, go over the rules for owning, using, or encountering any kind of weapon. Even a "toy." To not do so can have deadly consequences.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 30, 2014 14:36:17 GMT -5
Oh ok lol. Spin spin spin.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 17:12:06 GMT -5
It seems like so much went wrong in this situation from the kid not realizing the consequences of pointing and playing with a gun that looked real in a city park, to the dispatcher who failed to relate what the caller had said twice about possibly the gun not being real, to the cops who came in shooting way to quicky inmo.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Nov 30, 2014 17:41:57 GMT -5
PERHAPS the citizens of this community view law enforcement as working for them. PERHAPS they see this incident as a really horrible accident, not "business as usual". PERHAPS the problem in Ferguson lies in THE POLICE DEPARTMENT for failing to engage the community in a way that garners sympathy, understanding and mutual respect. would that not explain the difference? PERHAPS. All I know it is another black male killed by the police under rather shoddy circumstances. Granted, he was not a "young adult black male", but black and male just the same, and the argument in Missouri is over the killing of another young black male, representing hundreds of victims. For some reason, this killing does not meet the requirements of the black community or young white liberals who are also a big part of the violent riots and turmoil occurring across retail establishments in the last three days. Like I stated earlier, I am not sure why there is selective demonstrations where this is happening.
And of course there is the unarmed vs. perceived armed angle. The real problem appears to be prejudice, whether intentional or not, and how it affects how police respond. The superhuman, crazed black man is an old fiction yet alive and well in the minds of many.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 18:27:47 GMT -5
I would suggest you Google that those who think bb guns have " toy markings". However possessing a real gun is NOT a crime.It is if you are not legally allowed to possess it (like, by age, maybe?)
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 30, 2014 18:36:47 GMT -5
They didn't know his age did they?
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 30, 2014 18:41:33 GMT -5
Carrying a weapon is not a crime. Unless you want police to come gun down all the hunters in my town
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 18:47:47 GMT -5
Carrying a weapon is not a crime. Unless you want police to come gun down all the hunters in my town What about aiming/pointing it at people?
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 30, 2014 18:49:08 GMT -5
It wasn't a real gun. Is pointing a toy gun illegal and worthy of immediate execution?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 18:52:43 GMT -5
It wasn't a real gun. Is pointing a toy gun illegal and worthy of immediate execution? I don't believe so , no. It is something though I would talk to my boys about if they were growing up in the world we live in today.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 30, 2014 18:57:43 GMT -5
Fair enough. But should your 12 yr old son be executed for doing so?
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Nov 30, 2014 18:58:26 GMT -5
They didn't know his age did they? Of course not- in fact they thought he was much older if I recall.
If age is in question then the assumption should not favor the police. Reminds me of the visual pat-down bullshit cops use.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 19:03:20 GMT -5
No. I have said that in all my posts. I don't like what happened or how it happened. I also don't believe it was quite so simple as" let 's just go shoot this kid with the toy gun"
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 30, 2014 19:03:48 GMT -5
It's called " gathering facts".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 19:05:31 GMT -5
They didn't know his age did they? Very few 12 year old boys look like grown men, so, while they may not have known he was 12, it's reasonable to guess that they knew he wasn't an adult.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Nov 30, 2014 19:06:02 GMT -5
And one fact apparently missing was the caller stating it was probably not a real gun- that should have been passed on and the responding officers should have had that information.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 19:06:55 GMT -5
Carrying a weapon is not a crime. Unless you want police to come gun down all the hunters in my town I'll say it again. It is if you are not legally allowed to do so (by age, for example).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 19:07:04 GMT -5
It's called " gathering facts". I'm not sure who you are arguing with. Everyone here has agreed with you that the cops effed up.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 30, 2014 19:10:47 GMT -5
No they haven't.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 30, 2014 19:11:58 GMT -5
Carrying a weapon is not a crime. Unless you want police to come gun down all the hunters in my town I'll say it again. It is if you are not legally allowed to do so (by age, for example). Was the gun the 12 yr old had ILLEGAL for him to have? Yes or no?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 19:14:15 GMT -5
They didn't know his age did they? Probably the police would believe it was a toy if he was white.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 30, 2014 19:15:32 GMT -5
Well dayum. My sons have Airsoft wars in the local woods.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Nov 30, 2014 19:20:52 GMT -5
Want to add a story from my life with guns- I lived near a creek that dumped into a nearby river- me and my friends used to go and walk down there and shoot. Had one neighbor that hated it and called the police on us- we walked out of the woods- four of us- carrying rifles/shotguns, had pistols hanging out of our pockets and the local cops were waiting behind their open doors with their guns- no yelling- said boys put the guns down. Short talk, no one was arrested and we were told to quit shooting so close and take our asses closer to the river and away from the neighborhood. No parents called, no ID's checked, no guns examined- nothing. I was scared shitless- and unless you have had a cop point a gun at you while you are holding one you will never know. I was 15- and have no idea if I was legally allowed to have those guns- we never thought about it because we all shot guns as kids. BUT- we lived in an affluent area on the outskirts of town- white cops, white residents, low crime. The system works different for different people.
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Malarky
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Post by Malarky on Nov 30, 2014 19:21:59 GMT -5
Can someone please remind me of how to block a poster.
I thank you in advance.
I don't see an ignore button.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Nov 30, 2014 19:23:43 GMT -5
I don't know what was going through the cop's heads, but we do live in a time when kids do take guns to school for the purpose of killing people. People are people. They are going to make mistakes, act too quickly or too late.
While it would be great if the police were perfect and generally we hardly ever heard of them screwing up, its probably unrealistic. This was a tragedy. I think most people wish it hadn't happened and somehow the cops got the kid to drop the weapon so shots were never fired.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Nov 30, 2014 19:25:05 GMT -5
If somebody is pointing a gun that I think is real at me I want the cops to respond as quickly as possible, not sit around gathering facts while I might get killed. Here's the problem in a nutshell. Even with the little orange tip it's hard to tell these weapons apart. The top one is lethal, the bottom one is a toy that shoots plastic BB's. Cut or pull the little orange tip off and they're nearly impossible to tell apart. That's some bullshit to allow these to be made- then again I had a cap gun as a kid that looked just like a real western revolver- and we were running around 'brandishing' them, pointing at each other, pointing at people, etc. It was just kids playing- and we did it in parks, on the streets, in other people's yards- it was no big deal. Times have changed.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Nov 30, 2014 19:30:43 GMT -5
Times have changed and much depends on where you live. I'd probably be happier if more of the toy gun was orange or dayglo colors.
Luckily by me I did not grow up with toy or real gun brandishing. Hunters did wacky things like only point guns at deer and ducks.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Nov 30, 2014 19:31:07 GMT -5
You find a teenager in the woods behind your house. He's sneaking around in the bushes. He's holding this. Is that a real gun and he's possibly going to break into your house, or is that a toy and he's playing airsoft with his friends? If you play it safe and call the cops, when they arrive do they figure that's a real weapon or a toy? Keep in mind you're looking at a clear picture. Now imagine making that call in the heat of the moment when you can't see the weapon as clearly? Are you still not totally sure whether that's a real gun? I don't involve myself with what kids are doing in the woods. If they break into my house with it then I will treat it as a real gun
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