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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 19:58:31 GMT -5
I'll say it again. It is if you are not legally allowed to do so (by age, for example). Was the gun the 12 yr old had ILLEGAL for him to have? Yes or no? Did the cops KNOW it WAS a toy? Yes or no? I never said having a toy was illegal. I was responding to your (incorrect) assertion that " Carrying a weapon is not a crime."
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 30, 2014 19:59:16 GMT -5
It isn't.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 20:02:46 GMT -5
Can someone please remind me of how to block a poster. I thank you in advance. I don't see an ignore button. RIGHT-Click on their name and select "open in new tab", you will open their profile. On the page that open up, in the "window" that has their avatar, name, and other info, find the buttons at the top RIGHT of the window. The last button is a . Click it, and select "Block Member" from the drop down menu.
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steff
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Post by steff on Nov 30, 2014 20:05:27 GMT -5
You find a teenager in the woods behind your house. He's sneaking around in the bushes. He's holding this. Is that a real gun and he's possibly going to break into your house, or is that a toy and he's playing airsoft with his friends? If you play it safe and call the cops, when they arrive do they figure that's a real weapon or a toy? Keep in mind you're looking at a clear picture. Now imagine making that call in the heat of the moment when you can't see the weapon as clearly? Are you still not totally sure whether that's a real gun? Where I live, I would assume it's teens playing air soft. My 2nd thing would be to see if my kiddo was out there too. It's also a pretty good guess on my part that I would know the teens. But I do live in the country & I know that we have teens who play air soft in our neighborhood. Back when I lived in the city, my reaction would be completely different.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 20:08:37 GMT -5
Ohio Statutes disagree with you. Since there is no legal way to give/sell/otherwise-provide a firearm to a minor for unsupervised use... it's pretty clear that it actually is illegal for a minor to possess one.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 30, 2014 20:16:08 GMT -5
Blame the crack epidemic. Lots of police officers are still in uniform that served through it. Crime rates in neighborhoods that had huge crack problems were insane. Crackheads were extremely unpredictable, could be very violent, and dealing with that shit for years will probably color how those officers respond to situations for the rest of their lives. blame the CIA for the crack epidemic.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 30, 2014 20:18:05 GMT -5
If somebody is pointing a gun that I think is real at me I want the cops to respond as quickly as possible, not sit around gathering facts while I might get killed. Here's the problem in a nutshell. Even with the little orange tip it's hard to tell these weapons apart. The top one is lethal, the bottom one is a toy that shoots plastic BB's. Cut or pull the little orange tip off and they're nearly impossible to tell apart. whoever made that "toy" should be sued out of existence, imo.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 30, 2014 20:19:28 GMT -5
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 30, 2014 20:22:11 GMT -5
You find a teenager in the woods behind your house. He's sneaking around in the bushes. He's holding this. Is that a real gun and he's possibly going to break into your house, or is that a toy and he's playing airsoft with his friends? If you play it safe and call the cops, when they arrive do they figure that's a ... Bang, the kid is dead at this point in the video
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 30, 2014 20:24:19 GMT -5
Ohio Statutes disagree with you. Since there is no legal way to give/sell/otherwise-provide a firearm to a minor for unsupervised use... it's pretty clear that it actually is illegal for a minor to possess one. And that should be punishable by immediate police execution?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 20:26:20 GMT -5
Ohio Statutes disagree with you. Since there is no legal way to give/sell/otherwise-provide a firearm to a minor for unsupervised use... it's pretty clear that it actually is illegal for a minor to possess one. And that should be punishable by immediate police execution? Please point out where I said it was... Thanks. One more time... I was responding to your ludicrous and factually wrong comment. I never said the kid deserved to die.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 30, 2014 21:13:43 GMT -5
But he did.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 21:17:05 GMT -5
There's a difference between "deserved to die" and "not surprised he did die because he did something completely stupid and completely preventable... if his parents would have had an ounce of common sense, and done their jobs AS parents".
Anyone that can't see the difference between the two... well... I don't know how to help clear it up.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Nov 30, 2014 21:23:18 GMT -5
Ohio Statutes disagree with you. Since there is no legal way to give/sell/otherwise-provide a firearm to a minor for unsupervised use... it's pretty clear that it actually is illegal for a minor to possess one. So fucking what? You want to justify this killing? One hell of a stand you are making.
But I get it- I have read your posts- you have a tendency to zero in on one aspect of a complicated case and go for broke- and toss in statutes regardless of your understanding of them. That is pure bias. Want to argue the law argue with me-I wasted 3 years in law school to find out I hate lawyers and the system in general.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 21:32:02 GMT -5
Ohio Statutes disagree with you. Since there is no legal way to give/sell/otherwise-provide a firearm to a minor for unsupervised use... it's pretty clear that it actually is illegal for a minor to possess one. So fucking what? You want to justify this killing? One hell of a stand you are making.
But I get it- I have read your posts- you have a tendency to zero in on one aspect of a complicated case and go for broke- and toss in statutes regardless of your understanding of them. That is pure bias. Want to argue the law argue with me-I wasted 3 years in law school to find out I hate lawyers and the system in general.
I'm not justifying anything. I am simply saying that Shooby was wrong about the legality of a minor having a weapon.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 30, 2014 21:33:51 GMT -5
I had a bb gun at 12. Everyone in my neighborhood did.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Nov 30, 2014 21:39:52 GMT -5
I had a bb gun at 12. Everyone in my neighborhood did. In 1965, I would hunt rabbits with a shotgun, literally 200 yards from our high school in an open field with no trees between me and the school. I was a teenager at the time. Not a huge school at the time, but we had 250 students in our graduating class, so it was not small either. Suburban setting. Times have changed...... And I had my bb gun when I was probably eight years old. I would not want my grand children to have one at twelve years old today. Times have changed....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 21:41:13 GMT -5
I had a bb gun at 12. Everyone in my neighborhood did. Did you take them to the park and point them at people? Good question... I'd be betting that she didn't. ETA: I had my first BB gun when I was 6, but my Father kept it in the gun safe unless we were target shooting, until I was 10. Then I got to keep in in my room.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 30, 2014 21:44:54 GMT -5
We didn't have a park. But yeah I shot one of the neighbor kids in the stomach. He wanted to see if it would hurt and it did.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Nov 30, 2014 21:58:32 GMT -5
I had a bb gun at 12. Everyone in my neighborhood did. Did you take them to the park and point them at people? Yes we did. That was the fucking point to have a gun that looked and sounded real-and all the kids had them. We were jealous of the ones with the yellow caps because they were louder- and the rest of us had to live with caps on paper.
We ran through the neighborhood shooting at each other, shooting at adults, was normal.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 30, 2014 22:19:56 GMT -5
Cool. Times are a bit different now. We live in age of stand your ground, school shootings, and neighbors that will shoot at kids for trespassing. No way in hell I'm giving my kids a pistol that's an exact replica of a real firarm and telling them to go play outside. Like ever. It's fucking stupid and asking for trouble in this day and age. If we ever invent time travel they can go play with real looking toy guns 50 years in the past, but they aren't doing it in this century. was this child given this gun and told to play outside?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 1, 2014 0:12:28 GMT -5
Told to/allowed to What's the difference really? He still had it in public, somebody called 911, even though they thought it was fake, and now he's dead. again: have we even established that the gun belonged to the child yet? let's do that first. NEXT: establish that the child had permission to take it outside. until then, i will presume you are speculating.
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justme
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Post by justme on Dec 1, 2014 0:33:54 GMT -5
A BB gun isn't a toy, it just isn't a lethal gun unless a lot of crazy circumstances align. A toy gun would be something that didn't have a projectile. My family has had a BB gun since I was a kid, the only regular gun rule that isn't followed is that it's stored at the top of a closet not locked. I've been able to get copper BBs through a paint can from a good distance away, they can do damage.
As for making toy guns not look real, my friend bought a hello kitty gun that's all pink. It'll kill you as fast as any black gun.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 1, 2014 1:01:15 GMT -5
We didn't have a park. But yeah I shot one of the neighbor kids in the stomach. He wanted to see if it would hurt and it did. So you clearly weren't mature enough to have had said BB gun. Ok? I was a kid. Nobody was hurt. Sheesh.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2014 1:05:26 GMT -5
A BB gun isn't a toy, it just isn't a lethal gun unless a lot of crazy circumstances align. A toy gun would be something that didn't have a projectile. My family has had a BB gun since I was a kid, the only regular gun rule that isn't followed is that it's stored at the top of a closet not locked. I've been able to get copper BBs through a paint can from a good distance away, they can do damage. As for making toy guns not look real, my friend bought a hello kitty gun that's all pink. It'll kill you as fast as any black gun. Manufacturers making real ones look like toys is just as bad (and just as wrong) as toy manufacturers making them look real. It's no wonder cops can't take chances when they see something that even resembles a gun.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 1, 2014 7:49:00 GMT -5
But if you shot that kid in the stomach now, his parents would sue you. CPS would involve your parents because there'd be wonder about their lack of parenting skills. It's a different world and we have to deal with it the way it is not the way it was 50 years ago.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Dec 1, 2014 11:27:45 GMT -5
I couldn't tell from the video, but it looked like the kid was just sitting there, not trying to run away, not brandishing his toy gun, not sure why the police officer felt threatened enough to shoot him, except that he was a rookie cop and maybe scared/excitable/inexperienced.
Very tragic.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Dec 1, 2014 11:41:18 GMT -5
I couldn't tell from the video, but it looked like the kid was just sitting there, not trying to run away, not brandishing his toy gun, not sure why the police officer felt threatened enough to shoot him, except that he was a rookie cop and maybe scared/excitable/inexperienced. Very tragic. There is a lot of focus on the police officer who was sitting in the passenger seat. I think the focus should be on the one behind the steering wheel. That person set up both the rookie cop and the kid for the tragic ending.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 1, 2014 11:47:48 GMT -5
But if you shot that kid in the stomach now, his parents would sue you. CPS would involve your parents because there'd be wonder about their lack of parenting skills. It's a different world and we have to deal with it the way it is not the way it was 50 years ago. that is not necessarily true. AGAIN, it depends on the sympathy and understanding between parties. my neighborhood is pretty tight. if my son shot someone with a BB gun, he would be given a pass so long as he was given a talking to.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Dec 1, 2014 11:57:42 GMT -5
I couldn't tell from the video, but it looked like the kid was just sitting there, not trying to run away, not brandishing his toy gun, not sure why the police officer felt threatened enough to shoot him, except that he was a rookie cop and maybe scared/excitable/inexperienced. Very tragic. Look again....
At 27 seconds into the video, he was pointing the gun down the sidewalk, towards the right side of the screen. At 1:01, it looks like he's pointing it at someone who's passing by. The gun gets waved about frequently during the video.....maybe not at the police directly, but things are harder to see when he's sitting at the table under the cover.
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