Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 27, 2014 10:07:51 GMT -5
Cleveland Cop Took Seconds To Decide To Kill 12-Year-Old Tamir Rice www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/11/26/tamir_rice_shooting_video_cleveland_cops_takes_a_few_seconds_before_shooting.htmlBy Jeremy Stahl screen_shot_20141126_at_3.51.01_pm This is very sad, angering. From security tape released by police. A rookie Cleveland cop shot and killed Tamir Rice literally seconds after arriving at a park where the 12-year-old was carrying a BB gun. In disturbing new security video, released on Wednesday by police, the unnamed police officer is seen exiting his police vehicle and almost immediately deciding to shoot the child. From Cleveland.com: A rookie officer pulled the trigger, said Jeffrey Follmer, president of the Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association. Police were sent to the Cudell Recreation Center at Detroit Avenue and West Boulevard about 3:30 p.m. when someone called 9-1-1 to report a "guy with a gun pointing it at people." The caller told dispatchers twice that the gun was "probably fake," but that detail was not relayed to the responding officers, Follmer said. The video was made public one day after the parents of Rice had sent out a letter asking the city’s Mayor Frank Jackson and the Cleveland Police Department to release the footage, NBC affiliate WKYC reported. From the letter: While we request the release of the complete video, we also ask for the media to give our family privacy as we continue to grieve and learn about what happened. We feel the actions of the patrol officer who took our son's life must be made public. It is our prayer and request for citizens in the City of Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio to remain calm at this time. We ask for the public to demonstrate peacefully. Though the hurt our family feels is too painful for words to describe, we still have faith in the justice system. We thank the community for their prayers, encouragement and support. It has helped us during this difficult time. Officials have said that the boy was shot when he pulled the pellet gun from his pants after he was told by cops to raise his hands, although he didn’t point the gun at the officers. The video appears to show that he was shot before he would have had time to point the gun, or raise his hands, anywhere.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 27, 2014 10:19:44 GMT -5
There are plenty of instances where Police have acted in a questionable way. I think when the police choked and killed that man for selling illegal cigarettes, that was over the top. Yet, the media and Jesse Jackson seem to ignore those and go in and try to turn cases that don't fit those facts into something they are not.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 27, 2014 10:23:01 GMT -5
Why is anyone allowed to sell toy guns that look like real ones and why, knowing what can happen, would anyone let their son go to a public park with a BB gun or anything that looks like a weapon? If the kid had hurt someone, the media would be all over the cop. But criminy, if there was no one in danger, as in other people in the park, why didn't he call for backup?
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 27, 2014 10:25:01 GMT -5
Because WE used to be allowed to use BB guns. And, my sons play with Airsoft guns. Why can't they play with Airsoft guns without fear of getting shot?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 27, 2014 10:35:41 GMT -5
My cousin in the 60's had a BB gun but was never allowed to use it without my uncle being present and never on public property.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 27, 2014 10:50:42 GMT -5
Legs are harder to hit. We are taught to aim for chest. Even heads are difficult. In 10 shots I got 1 head, the rest, chest. Bigger target.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Nov 27, 2014 10:57:15 GMT -5
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Nov 27, 2014 11:16:47 GMT -5
Why is anyone allowed to sell toy guns that look like real ones and why, knowing what can happen, would anyone let their son go to a public park with a BB gun or anything that looks like a weapon? If the kid had hurt someone, the media would be all over the cop. But criminy, if there was no one in danger, as in other people in the park, why didn't he call for backup? Such another tragic situation that should have been avoided.
12 year old child brandishing a realistic gun at people. Why would someone let their child have such a gun?
If you're going to let your child have a gun you need to be with him. BB guns can hurt people and animals too.
Given all the school shootings I don't blame the police for reacting with deadly force.
I can tell you from working at the Transit District that no one wants to admit that their child's stupid actions led to his/her death. It's always someone else's fault. I understand that they are grieving but to try to monetized the situation through a lawsuit is just disgusting.
And unfortunately juries tend to sympathize with parents. They think the governmental agencies have deep pockets. And the government agency will often settle out of court because it's often cheaper to settle than to go to court.
The best thing that can happen from a tragic situation like this is to learn from it. I would love to see some legislation regarding parental accompanying a child under 16 and mandatory federal painting of the tips of toy and bee-bee guns. Name it for the child who died.
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Nov 27, 2014 11:22:27 GMT -5
Busybody (apparently not concerned for his own safety) phones 911... he's the first person in gazebo, next video. Tells the dispatch it's probably a toy, but...
The police arrive some time later...jump out of the car shooting 7:10.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 27, 2014 12:41:15 GMT -5
He might have been a busy body but he also might have saved a life if it had been a gun. This was so preventable
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Nov 27, 2014 12:46:41 GMT -5
He might have been a busy body but he also might have saved a life if it had been a gun. This was so preventable Did you note how long he sat and observed Tamir? In the quietness of the park he probably heard the clicking of the toy.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2014 12:57:09 GMT -5
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Nov 27, 2014 13:09:54 GMT -5
A Christmas Story 2014: Instead of you'll shoot your eye out kid...Santa says you'll be gut-shot by the po-po kid.
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kent
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Post by kent on Nov 27, 2014 14:29:48 GMT -5
This is why I don't sell realistic looking toy guns. Half the airsoft guns on the market are designed to look exactly like the actual gun, including clips, rail sights, optics, etc. Asking for trouble in my opinion......Totally preventable tragedy, and I blame the parents more than anyone. Good for you!
I read recently where the "bad guys" had actually painted a real AK-47 to make it "look" like it was a toy - pink barrel, etc. Crap! Now we expect the police to make a snap decision - is it a toy gun that looks real or is it a real gun that's painted like a toy? Take your time deciding officer - but do so while ducking behind your patrol car (where you won't be able to make a valid determination because you can no longer "see" the "thing" in question). Yep, that'll work.
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Nov 27, 2014 14:42:39 GMT -5
This is why I don't sell realistic looking toy guns. Half the airsoft guns on the market are designed to look exactly like the actual gun, including clips, rail sights, optics, etc. Asking for trouble in my opinion......Totally preventable tragedy, and I blame the parents more than anyone. Good for you!
I read recently where the "bad guys" had actually painted a real AK-47 to make it "look" like it was a toy - pink barrel, etc. Crap! Now we expect the police to make a snap decision - is it a toy gun that looks real or is it a real gun that's painted like a toy? Take your time deciding officer - but do so while ducking behind your patrol car (where you won't be able to make a valid determination because you can no longer "see" the "thing" in question). Yep, that'll work.
Man facing felony charge after Colorado sheriff's deputies say he pointed banana at them
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Nov 27, 2014 14:46:13 GMT -5
www.usnews.com/news/offbeat/articles/2014/11/25/man-arrested-deputies-say-he-aimed-banana-at-themGRAND JUNCTION, Colo. (AP) — A man is facing a felony menacing charge after two western Colorado sheriff's deputies say he pointed a banana at them and they thought it was a gun. The Grand Junction Daily Sentinel reports (http://bit.ly/1rqFiVE ) 27-year-old Nathan Rolf Channing, of Fruitvale, was arrested Sunday. According to an arrest affidavit, Mesa County deputies Joshua Bunch and Donald Love said they feared for their lives even though they saw that the object was yellow. Bunch wrote in the affidavit that he has seen handguns in many shapes and colors. He wrote that Love was drawing his service weapon when Channing yelled, "It's a banana!"
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 27, 2014 14:53:45 GMT -5
""I read recently where the "bad guys" had actually painted a real AK-47 to make it "look" like it was a toy - pink barrel, etc. Crap! Now we expect the police to make a snap decision - is it a toy gun that looks real or is it a real gun that's painted like a toy? Take your time deciding officer - but do so while ducking behind your patrol car (where you won't be able to make a valid determination because you can no longer "see" the "thing" in question). Yep, that'll work.""
The question in THIS case was Was a Snap Decision necessary?
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 27, 2014 14:55:17 GMT -5
We need to have better review procedures. When they are WRONG or act improperly it needs to be addressed and dealt with. When they are right, then we need to support them. And of course we have to take into consideration the time frame and potential threat and what was seen and observed. But, when we don't call out the wrongdoers, we are doing a disservice to good police officers and hurting society.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 27, 2014 17:26:34 GMT -5
... Did you note how long he sat and observed Tamir? ... I see 5 seconds from the time the car enters the frame until the kid hits the ground. What did you note as the time they were observing?
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Nov 27, 2014 17:37:54 GMT -5
... Did you note how long he sat and observed Tamir? ... I see 5 seconds from the time the car enters the frame until the kid hits the ground. What did you note as the time they were observing? He is the man in the gazebo/pavilion, (the 911 caller) in the first minutes of the 2nd video.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Nov 27, 2014 17:42:32 GMT -5
I'm going to move this thread to Current Events as that's where it fits best.
mmhmm, Administrator
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 27, 2014 17:52:54 GMT -5
I see 5 seconds from the time the car enters the frame until the kid hits the ground. What did you note as the time they were observing? He is the man in the gazebo/pavilion, (the 911 caller) in the first minutes of the 2nd video. Ah, pronouns.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 27, 2014 18:18:00 GMT -5
Why is anyone allowed to sell toy guns that look like real ones and why, knowing what can happen, would anyone let their son go to a public park with a BB gun or anything that looks like a weapon? If the kid had hurt someone, the media would be all over the cop. But criminy, if there was no one in danger, as in other people in the park, why didn't he call for backup? Supposedly, toy guns have an orange tip on the top of it to denote it is a toy. In this case, the orange tip was scraped off.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 27, 2014 18:20:46 GMT -5
I don't know, even kids can kill. But I wonder why they couldn't shot a leg, foot or something rather then shot to kill. I know when adrenalin hits me though how it makes me act. If I were in a situation like that what would I do? I just don't know. Stablest.....it is damn near impossible to hit a leg on a person. Things like this only happen in movies.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 27, 2014 18:24:39 GMT -5
Any reason for running up on the grass instead of staying on the road?
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Nov 27, 2014 18:25:03 GMT -5
Why is anyone allowed to sell toy guns that look like real ones and why, knowing what can happen, would anyone let their son go to a public park with a BB gun or anything that looks like a weapon? If the kid had hurt someone, the media would be all over the cop. But criminy, if there was no one in danger, as in other people in the park, why didn't he call for backup? Supposedly, toy guns have an orange tip on the top of it to denote it is a toy. In this case, the orange tip was scraped off. According to the other thread BB guns are excepted from the rule.
I think this one of these cases where the parents really failed their child about how to handle a gun. Absolutely tragic.
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Nov 27, 2014 18:39:30 GMT -5
Any reason for running up on the grass instead of staying on the road? Inexcusable, why the driver would put his partner in that position. Stay on the road, use the PA, and give your commands. There's not a soul in sight. What was the immediate threat and to whom?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 27, 2014 18:52:33 GMT -5
Any reason for running up on the grass instead of staying on the road? Inexcusable, why the driver would put his partner in that position. Stay on the road, use the PA, and give your commands. There's not a soul in sight. What was the immediate threat and to whom? Where this kid was located was adjacent to a road, so how do you know that there was no immediate threat? Bullets travel much further than you think that they do.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 27, 2014 18:52:55 GMT -5
nothing to see here. justified homicide. just like every other instance discussed on the board.
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Nov 27, 2014 19:03:42 GMT -5
Inexcusable, why the driver would put his partner in that position. Stay on the road, use the PA, and give your commands. There's not a soul in sight. What was the immediate threat and to whom? Where this kid was located was adjacent to a road, so how do you know that there was no immediate threat? Bullets travel much further than you think that they do. It's not a "road", road. It's more of an access road for park custodians. How much traffic did you see on it during the video? I would like to know the time frame from report to response...with NO shots fired. ETA I see by the curbing that it is most likely parking for the Rec Center that was probably closed as there was no traffic during the entirety of the video. www.google.com/maps/place/Cudell+Coms+Park/@41.4789,-81.7534749,17z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x8830f1c3bc8d9575:0xbffaf79ca1ca6ba6
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