djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 18:17:00 GMT -5
agreed. but i think the odds of mutation are very low. the disease has been around 38 years, and is symptomatically almost identical during that time, meaning that it has not had much variance/evolution/adaptation during that time. now, this doesn't mean that something wild could NOT happen. it totally could. but i think the odds are rather low, don't you? I honestly have no idea. I know colds mutate constantly, that is why you can't become just immune to the cold. And flu mutates, that is why there are so many strains & you need a new flu shot each year. But, then I suppose other diseases like measles & chicken pox never seem to mutate, so we can have a vaccine that protects us for life. So I suppose ebola might fall into the latter category. all diseases mutate. but some are relatively complex virus, and others are not, so the degree of mutation is quite different. i don't believe that ebola is one of those particularly mutating strains. could it become one? sure, i guess. i dunno. i am not a virologist either.I know just enough to pretend like I know what i am talking about (and then spread unwarranted fear & hysteria) LOL! i don't even know that much on THIS subject. i just try to read and keep up. edit: but i will admit that i am utterly worn out of being constantly pushed into a state of terror by the fringes of our society.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Oct 15, 2014 19:41:51 GMT -5
You should read up on some of the crazy out there- we are back to FEMA coffins, martial law and suspending elections
I was listening to the radio on the way to work and our local RW host was going on about it going airborne despite it has been pretty much the same thing since the 70's- that and of course if anyone dies it is Obama's fault for not banning flights from certain areas.
People need to chill out- be informed and aware- but calm down. Go back to worrying about a black man looking to rob you behind every corner- much more likely out of the plethora of longshot scenarios people worry about these days
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Oct 15, 2014 19:57:30 GMT -5
My favorite crazy:
www.cogforlife.org/ebolaPressRelease.pdf
(Largo, FL) Children of God for Life announced today that several Ebola vaccines in development for use worldwide are made using aborted fetal cell lines despite the fact that moral alternatives are reported as equally effective. Glaxo SmithKline (GSK) and NIAID are jointly developed their ChAd3 vector for delivering the Ebola virus gene using HEK-293 (human embryonic kidney) cells. Likewise, NewLink Genetics of Iowa used HEK-293 cells for their VSV-EBOV Ebola vaccine in Canada, while Johnson and Johnson/Crucell developed theirs using PER C6 cells, derived from retinal tissue of an 18 week gestation aborted baby.
"It is completely irresponsible of this Administration to put these problem vaccines on fast-track for approval and ignore the fact that a massive number of people may very well refuse them. Why not fast track a product that everyone can use in good conscience?" asked Vinnedge.
I want to see someone spraying out both ends refuse a vaccine on moral grounds.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2014 20:00:51 GMT -5
I want to see someone spraying out both ends refuse a vaccine on moral grounds. [/p]
[/quote] Vaccine will not help who is sick only it is to prevent.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 20:04:19 GMT -5
My favorite crazy:
www.cogforlife.org/ebolaPressRelease.pdf
(Largo, FL) Children of God for Life announced today that several Ebola vaccines in development for use worldwide are made using aborted fetal cell lines despite the fact that moral alternatives are reported as equally effective. Glaxo SmithKline (GSK) and NIAID are jointly developed their ChAd3 vector for delivering the Ebola virus gene using HEK-293 (human embryonic kidney) cells. Likewise, NewLink Genetics of Iowa used HEK-293 cells for their VSV-EBOV Ebola vaccine in Canada, while Johnson and Johnson/Crucell developed theirs using PER C6 cells, derived from retinal tissue of an 18 week gestation aborted baby.
"It is completely irresponsible of this Administration to put these problem vaccines on fast-track for approval and ignore the fact that a massive number of people may very well refuse them. Why not fast track a product that everyone can use in good conscience?" asked Vinnedge.
I want to see someone spraying out both ends refuse a vaccine on moral grounds.
i am sure that a lot of Christian Scientists will refuse the vaccine, as well. don't have much time for them, either. they will get less sympathy from me than the guy who died in the US.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 15, 2014 20:06:51 GMT -5
My favorite crazy:
www.cogforlife.org/ebolaPressRelease.pdf
(Largo, FL) Children of God for Life announced today that several Ebola vaccines in development for use worldwide are made using aborted fetal cell lines despite the fact that moral alternatives are reported as equally effective. Glaxo SmithKline (GSK) and NIAID are jointly developed their ChAd3 vector for delivering the Ebola virus gene using HEK-293 (human embryonic kidney) cells. Likewise, NewLink Genetics of Iowa used HEK-293 cells for their VSV-EBOV Ebola vaccine in Canada, while Johnson and Johnson/Crucell developed theirs using PER C6 cells, derived from retinal tissue of an 18 week gestation aborted baby.
"It is completely irresponsible of this Administration to put these problem vaccines on fast-track for approval and ignore the fact that a massive number of people may very well refuse them. Why not fast track a product that everyone can use in good conscience?" asked Vinnedge.
I want to see someone spraying out both ends refuse a vaccine on moral grounds.
By the tentacles of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, I wish lunatics like this would suddenly be stricken dumb. Oh! Wait! Nevermind, they're already dumb!
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 15, 2014 20:35:03 GMT -5
Hubby and I were talking about it the other day. Why didn't they take these people to someplace like the CDC in Atlanta where they are prepared for dealing with stuff like this. They wised up and today that's where they took this second nurse. Finally some common sense is being used. No. The nurse was transferred to Emory University Hospital in Atlanta.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Oct 15, 2014 20:37:02 GMT -5
It sounds like common sense, until you read a story like this one. Then you begin to wonder why someone who the CDC may have cleared to fly despite having a slight fever is being transferred to Emory. That's right down the street from the CDC and you can bet that the CDC has a lot of clout there.
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Post by Value Buy on Oct 15, 2014 20:51:48 GMT -5
It sounds like common sense, until you read a story like this one. Then you begin to wonder why someone who the CDC may have cleared to fly despite having a slight fever is being transferred to Emory. That's right down the street from the CDC and you can bet that the CDC has a lot of clout there. But, but, but, she had to finalize wedding plans back in Cleveland. Got to have your priorities correct!
Wedding arrangement? spreading Ebola Make your choice
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Oct 15, 2014 20:58:12 GMT -5
Did you read the link? The allegation is that she was in contact with the CDC prior to boarding that flight, reported an elevated temp, and was either not told to stay off the plane or cleared to fly.
This story, if true, makes Frieden's statements this morning look extremely disingenuous. His own agency knew far more about this than he was letting on but his statement was crafted to imply that the nurse made a poor choice.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 15, 2014 21:03:47 GMT -5
It sounds like common sense, until you read a story like this one. Then you begin to wonder why someone who the CDC may have cleared to fly despite having a slight fever is being transferred to Emory. That's right down the street from the CDC and you can bet that the CDC has a lot of clout there. I said earlier if I were this nurse I'd demand to be transferred. I don't know if that's the reason, but it sure could be. Also, the hospital in Dallas only has 3 isolation rooms. I'd want to keep at least one open until this blows over, and I'd rather have two open. I'm just thinking how I'd handle this if I had to make the decisions. The transfer may be a tactical maneuver to maintain available beds in Dallas, where the problems are most likely to surface.
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Oct 15, 2014 21:09:43 GMT -5
Very, very stupid. She should lose her license as far as I'm concerned. If she didn't vomit, or have diarrhoea on the plane (and didn't sneeze or spit directly into someone's face) the passengers who flew with her will be fine. That's not the point. She knew what she was doing and did it anyway. She's got no damned business even being a nurse! Makes me livid! The CDC told her to go...have fun! You can't make this shit up! Jerk her license! JERK IT!!!
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Post by haapai on Oct 15, 2014 21:12:51 GMT -5
There are probably dozens of good reasons arguing for her transfer too. I thought that it was a great decision prior to reading his story. I even hoped that the CDC wanted to interview her outside of Texas Preb in order to find out exactly how f----d-up things were before they got there.
Now I'm kinda fixated on how isolated she is.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 15, 2014 21:15:41 GMT -5
Very, very stupid. She should lose her license as far as I'm concerned. If she didn't vomit, or have diarrhoea on the plane (and didn't sneeze or spit directly into someone's face) the passengers who flew with her will be fine. That's not the point. She knew what she was doing and did it anyway. She's got no damned business even being a nurse! Makes me livid! The CDC told her to go...have fun! You can't make this shit up! Jerk her license! JERK IT!!! Yes, her license should be pulled, IMO. She knows better than this. She knew she was running a higher than normal temperature and she'd been told not to fly with fever. She didn't need to call the CDC. She needed to stay the hell off that airplane! I'm talking about personal responsibility here. It's sooo much easier to point the finger outward when the fault lies with you because ... well, you know you and you know you're not well. Personal. Responsibility.
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 15, 2014 21:25:25 GMT -5
The CDC told her to go...have fun! You can't make this shit up! Jerk her license! JERK IT!!! Yes, her license should be pulled, IMO. She knows better than this. She knew she was running a higher than normal temperature and she'd been told not to fly with fever. She didn't need to call the CDC. She needed to stay the hell off that airplane! I'm talking about personal responsibility here. It's sooo much easier to point the finger outward when the fault lies with you because ... well, you know you and you know you're not well. Personal. Responsibility. To be clear...the CDC is the one that issued the guidelines of when she was safe, right? So if she was unsure (by your own statement in the other thread, "by the book" she didn't actually have a fever) and she made the call to the CDC, she is in the clear and the fault lies with the CDC. Sorry, but she is a nurse who has never encountered Ebola. If you have the backing of the CDC to get on a plane, I wouldn't imagine why anyone would expect her to think she shouldn't go.
Seriously, do you not think the CDC completely blew this?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 15, 2014 21:34:05 GMT -5
Yes, her license should be pulled, IMO. She knows better than this. She knew she was running a higher than normal temperature and she'd been told not to fly with fever. She didn't need to call the CDC. She needed to stay the hell off that airplane! I'm talking about personal responsibility here. It's sooo much easier to point the finger outward when the fault lies with you because ... well, you know you and you know you're not well. Personal. Responsibility. To be clear...the CDC is the one that issued the guidelines of when she was safe, right? So if she was unsure (by your own statement in the other thread, "by the book" she didn't actually have a fever) and she made the call to the CDC, she is in the clear and the fault lies with the CDC. Sorry, but she is a nurse who has never encountered Ebola. If you have the backing of the CDC to get on a plane, I wouldn't imagine why anyone would expect her to think she shouldn't go.
Seriously, do you not think the CDC completely blew this?
How many times do I have to say she SHOULD NOT have been advised it was okay to fly? Of course, the CDC blew it! That has nothing whatever to do with this nurse's responsibility. You don't have to have dealt with Ebola to know what you're dealing with. This woman had cared for a patient with the damned disease, MT! She knew what it was! She saw it. That's how she got infected! She was utterly stupid to get on that plane and she paid no attention to her own training and her own experience with this damned virus! Yes, I would pull her license for a minimum of 6 weeks and require her to attend retraining for isolation protocols, disease vectors, etc. There is no question in my mind. The CDC should not have cleared her but that doesn't absolve her of responsibilty, IMO. *wanders off towards the kitchen, muttering to herself about "a nurse who has never encountered Ebola" but is somehow, magically infected with it ..... *
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 15, 2014 21:50:01 GMT -5
To be clear...the CDC is the one that issued the guidelines of when she was safe, right? So if she was unsure (by your own statement in the other thread, "by the book" she didn't actually have a fever) and she made the call to the CDC, she is in the clear and the fault lies with the CDC. Sorry, but she is a nurse who has never encountered Ebola. If you have the backing of the CDC to get on a plane, I wouldn't imagine why anyone would expect her to think she shouldn't go.
Seriously, do you not think the CDC completely blew this?
How many times do I have to say she SHOULD NOT have been advised it was okay to fly? Of course, the CDC blew it! That has nothing whatever to do with this nurse's responsibility. You don't have to have dealt with Ebola to know what you're dealing with. This woman had cared for a patient with the damned disease, MT! She knew what it was! She saw it. That's how she got infected! She was utterly stupid to get on that plane and she paid no attention to her own training and her own experience with this damned virus! Yes, I would pull her license for a minimum of 6 weeks and require her to attend retraining for isolation protocols, disease vectors, etc. There is no question in my mind. The CDC should not have cleared her but that doesn't absolve her of responsibilty, IMO. *wanders off towards the kitchen, muttering to herself about "a nurse who has never encountered Ebola" but is somehow, magically infected with it ..... * I meant she had no long history with working around Ebola. Considering that they all worked around him for two days without the proper equipment, I don't truly think she understands much about Ebola...which is why I believe she had every right to believe the CDC when they cleared her to fly. This is not a virus that every nurse in every hospital should be expected to know how to handle.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 15, 2014 21:53:32 GMT -5
Excuse me, MT, but Ebola is a virus every nurse in the every hospital should know how to handle. This stuff has been in the news, hot and heavy, for weeks! People have died. People have been flown all over the damned world. Anybody who doesn't know Ebola can kill you has to be either dead, or close to it. She had a responsibility and, as far as I'm concerned, she failed to honor it. You don't need a long history of working with a virus that you saw with your own eyes and saw it kill the patient you were treating, MT. You only need a working brain cell, or two.
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Post by Value Buy on Oct 15, 2014 21:58:41 GMT -5
Excuse me, MT, but Ebola is a virus every nurse in the every hospital should know how to handle. This stuff has been in the news, hot and heavy, for weeks! People have died. People have been flown all over the damned world. Anybody who doesn't know Ebola can kill you has to be either dead, or close to it. She had a responsibility and, as far as I'm concerned, she failed to honor it. You don't need a long history of working with a virus that you saw with your own eyes and saw it kill the patient you were treating, MT. You only need a working brain cell, or two. Glad to see you are taking this SERIOUS. You are starting to come around after all!
I was going to say it was all over the news about Africa for a month now, but I figured someone here would say not everyone watches the news..........so glad to see as a nurse you think she should know better. I agree. And it goes double for the professionals running this facility.
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 15, 2014 22:02:28 GMT -5
Excuse me, MT, but Ebola is a virus every nurse in the every hospital should know how to handle. This stuff has been in the news, hot and heavy, for weeks! People have died. People have been flown all over the damned world. Anybody who doesn't know Ebola can kill you has to be either dead, or close to it. She had a responsibility and, as far as I'm concerned, she failed to honor it. You don't need a long history of working with a virus that you saw with your own eyes and saw it kill the patient you were treating, MT. You only need a working brain cell, or two. And yet, NONE OF THE NURSES used the correct equipment for the first two days. Are you saying none of them had working brain cells?
I have a working brain cell. I would have let Duncan die before I stepped anywhere near him (I truly believe he came here with full knowledge of his exposure). But a whole shit load of nurses did go near him without the proper equipment. It had been all over the news, there were CDC protocols (heck, EVT says his company was fully prepared a month ago)...the only answer must be that either we aren't as prepared as we think we are, or every nurse that treated him has no working brain cells.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 15, 2014 22:04:25 GMT -5
Excuse me, MT, but Ebola is a virus every nurse in the every hospital should know how to handle. This stuff has been in the news, hot and heavy, for weeks! People have died. People have been flown all over the damned world. Anybody who doesn't know Ebola can kill you has to be either dead, or close to it. She had a responsibility and, as far as I'm concerned, she failed to honor it. You don't need a long history of working with a virus that you saw with your own eyes and saw it kill the patient you were treating, MT. You only need a working brain cell, or two. Glad to see you are taking this SERIOUS. You are starting to come around after all!
I was going to say it was all over the news about Africa for a month now, but I figured someone here would say not everyone watches the news..........so glad to see as a nurse you think she should know better. I agree. And it goes double for the professionals running this facility.
Of course I'm taking it seriously. I'm just not getting my personal panties in a wad over it. There's a big difference, VB. Yes, she should have known and should accept responsibility for her actions. While at her level of illness she wasn't endangering anyone, that isn't the point. She should not have been travelling. That's the point. The hospital is a freaking disaster area and should be ashamed of itself. That joint needs to accept its responsibility, as well. These folks need to stop pointing the finger and start doing something about the mess they've created for themselves. The CDC needs to accept responsibility for not thinking ahead to realize they were going to be dealing with stupid people doing really stupid things and covering that possibility in their protocols. There's plenty of blame to go around. I expect each person involved to shoulder their share of it.
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 15, 2014 22:07:32 GMT -5
Excuse me, MT, but Ebola is a virus every nurse in the every hospital should know how to handle. This stuff has been in the news, hot and heavy, for weeks! People have died. People have been flown all over the damned world. Anybody who doesn't know Ebola can kill you has to be either dead, or close to it. She had a responsibility and, as far as I'm concerned, she failed to honor it. You don't need a long history of working with a virus that you saw with your own eyes and saw it kill the patient you were treating, MT. You only need a working brain cell, or two. And yet, NONE OF THE NURSES used the correct equipment for the first two days. Are you saying none of them had working brain cells?
I have a working brain cell. I would have let Duncan die before I stepped anywhere near him (I truly believe he came here with full knowledge of his exposure). But a whole shit load of nurses did go near him without the proper equipment. It had been all over the news, there were CDC protocols (heck, EVT says his company was fully prepared a month ago)...the only answer must be that either we aren't as prepared as we think we are, or every nurse that treated him has no working brain cells.
They didn't know he had Ebola for the first two days. He wasn't diagnosed with it then. Still, they knew where he'd come from by that time. They should have known better than to do what they did. Contact isolation is contact isolation. Those who worked with him outside proper protocols were stupid, pure and simple. They can shoulder their part of the responsibility. I'd care for him in a heartbeat and wouldn't worry a bit about being infected, and you can believe whatever you wish about what he knew, or didn't know. You aren't psychic so you don't have a real clue. I'm done.
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Post by NastyWoman on Oct 15, 2014 22:08:43 GMT -5
Well after all this I can tell you that if I ever get sick in Dallas, I know which hospital I DON'T want to go to. And it's not because of "Patient Zero" having been there and fear of catching ebola because of that. His case has just exposed the hospital's problems! They just can't seem to get their act together.
Did anyone else see Dr. Daniel Vargas getting p*ssed off yesterday when the interviewer he was talking to didn't agree with him that the hospital had done an outstanding job taking care of Thomas Duncan? No chance I'll ever put them in charge of my health...
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 15, 2014 22:11:51 GMT -5
And yet, NONE OF THE NURSES used the correct equipment for the first two days. Are you saying none of them had working brain cells?
I have a working brain cell. I would have let Duncan die before I stepped anywhere near him (I truly believe he came here with full knowledge of his exposure). But a whole shit load of nurses did go near him without the proper equipment. It had been all over the news, there were CDC protocols (heck, EVT says his company was fully prepared a month ago)...the only answer must be that either we aren't as prepared as we think we are, or every nurse that treated him has no working brain cells.
They didn't know he had Ebola for the first two days. He wasn't diagnosed with it then. Still, they knew where he'd come from by that time. They should have known better than to do what they did. Contact isolation is contact isolation. Those who worked with him outside proper protocols were stupid, pure and simple. They can shoulder their part of the responsibility. I'd care for him in a heartbeat and wouldn't worry a bit about being infected, and you can believe whatever you wish about what he knew, or didn't know. You aren't psychic so you don't have a real clue. I'm done. Im not so sure that they are stupid versus woefully unprepared to treat Ebola...which is actually scarier to me then just flat out incompetence.
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 15, 2014 22:12:52 GMT -5
Well after all this I can tell you that if I ever get sick in Dallas, I know which hospital I DON'T want to go to. And it's not because of "Patient Zero" having been there and fear of catching ebola because of that. His case has just exposed the hospital's problems! They just can't seem to get their act together. Did anyone else see Dr. Daniel Vargas getting p*ssed off yesterday when the interviewer he was talking to didn't agree with him that the hospital had done an outstanding job taking care of Thomas Duncan? No chance I'll ever put them in charge of my health... I would be curious as to their stats versus similar hospitals
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2014 22:14:32 GMT -5
Did you read the link? The allegation is that she was in contact with the CDC prior to boarding that flight, reported an elevated temp, and was either not told to stay off the plane or cleared to fly. This story, if true, makes Frieden's statements this morning look extremely disingenuous. His own agency knew far more about this than he was letting on but his statement was crafted to imply that the nurse made a poor choice. Oh boy! This just gets worse and worse. So the nurse contacted the "authorities" for advice on flying and they gave her the ok? Looks to me like there have been failures at every level. Ive focused on the hospital so far, I'm looking at the CDC sideways too now. How many more things that should not have happened have to happen before we admit that maybe we arent as good at this as we think we are?
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 15, 2014 22:21:13 GMT -5
Did you read the link? The allegation is that she was in contact with the CDC prior to boarding that flight, reported an elevated temp, and was either not told to stay off the plane or cleared to fly. This story, if true, makes Frieden's statements this morning look extremely disingenuous. His own agency knew far more about this than he was letting on but his statement was crafted to imply that the nurse made a poor choice. Oh boy! This just gets worse and worse. So the nurse contacted the "authorities" for advice on flying and they gave her the ok? Looks to me like there have been failures at every level. Ive focused on the hospital so far, I'm looking at the CDC sideways too now. How many more things that should not have happened have to happen before we admit that maybe we arent as good at this as we think we are? So those of you that thought this was "no big deal", is any of this changing your mind? Are any of you less confident than a few days ago?
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Post by Value Buy on Oct 15, 2014 22:22:32 GMT -5
Did you read the link? The allegation is that she was in contact with the CDC prior to boarding that flight, reported an elevated temp, and was either not told to stay off the plane or cleared to fly. This story, if true, makes Frieden's statements this morning look extremely disingenuous. His own agency knew far more about this than he was letting on but his statement was crafted to imply that the nurse made a poor choice. Oh boy! This just gets worse and worse. So the nurse contacted the "authorities" for advice on flying and they gave her the ok? Looks to me like there have been failures at every level. Ive focused on the hospital so far, I'm looking at the CDC sideways too now. How many more things that should not have happened have to happen before we admit that maybe we arent as good at this as we think we are? And yet many here feel the President and CDC should not be more stringent in procedures. The CDC has shown to be incompetent to this point. Unless you were a doctor serving in Africa, then it's first class service all the way. Citizens not so much, you are on your own.
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Angel!
Senior Associate
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Post by Angel! on Oct 15, 2014 22:55:54 GMT -5
Does anyone remember when there were concerns about H1N1? I remember were some groups that were really criticizing how serious the reaction by the govt. was to H1N1 because "it's just the flu" & therefore no big deal. They felt the CDC & all the warnings were a complete overreaction. I could totally be wrong, but I can't help but think those are the same people that are today screaming at the govt for not doing enough. So they went overboard on their reaction to the pandemic that killed 12,000 people in our country that year, but aren't doing enough to stop the end of the world crisis that has so far killed 1 in our country & infected 2 more. There was an article today about the concern of hysteria over ebola www.nytimes.com/2014/10/16/health/ebolas-other-contagious-threat-hysteria.html?_r=0It has come up in other threads (I specifically remember the hot car thread), but people absolutely suck at judging risk.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 23:13:22 GMT -5
The CDC told her to go...have fun! You can't make this shit up! Jerk her license! JERK IT!!! Yes, her license should be pulled, IMO. She knows better than this. She knew she was running a higher than normal temperature and she'd been told not to fly with fever. She didn't need to call the CDC. She needed to stay the hell off that airplane! I'm talking about personal responsibility here. personal responsibility has barely been mentioned in this thread- except the personal responsibility of the CDC and Obama. what rubbish.
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