djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 23:15:53 GMT -5
How many times do I have to say she SHOULD NOT have been advised it was okay to fly? Of course, the CDC blew it! That has nothing whatever to do with this nurse's responsibility. You don't have to have dealt with Ebola to know what you're dealing with. This woman had cared for a patient with the damned disease, MT! She knew what it was! She saw it. That's how she got infected! She was utterly stupid to get on that plane and she paid no attention to her own training and her own experience with this damned virus! Yes, I would pull her license for a minimum of 6 weeks and require her to attend retraining for isolation protocols, disease vectors, etc. There is no question in my mind. The CDC should not have cleared her but that doesn't absolve her of responsibilty, IMO. *wanders off towards the kitchen, muttering to herself about "a nurse who has never encountered Ebola" but is somehow, magically infected with it ..... * I meant she had no long history with working around Ebola. what does that have to do with anything? nurses have a responsibility to KNOW THIS STUFF. sheesh. what happened to this country?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 23:17:59 GMT -5
Oh boy! This just gets worse and worse. So the nurse contacted the "authorities" for advice on flying and they gave her the ok? Looks to me like there have been failures at every level. Ive focused on the hospital so far, I'm looking at the CDC sideways too now. How many more things that should not have happened have to happen before we admit that maybe we arent as good at this as we think we are? So those of you that thought this was "no big deal", is any of this changing your mind? Are any of you less confident than a few days ago? nobody thought it was no big deal. if you are asking whether i still think it is manageable, yes- i do.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 23:20:26 GMT -5
Oh boy! This just gets worse and worse. So the nurse contacted the "authorities" for advice on flying and they gave her the ok? Looks to me like there have been failures at every level. Ive focused on the hospital so far, I'm looking at the CDC sideways too now. How many more things that should not have happened have to happen before we admit that maybe we arent as good at this as we think we are? And yet many here feel the President and CDC should not be more stringent in procedures.
no, many here feel the president has little to do with this, and the CDC procedures are generally ok. it should be noted that they made some changes in the last day or two, if what i read today was correct.
The CDC has shown to be incompetent to this point.
has it?
Unless you were a doctor serving in Africa, then it's first class service all the way. Citizens not so much, you are on your own.
bad idea, and i pray fervently it doesn't happen.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 23:22:31 GMT -5
Does anyone remember when there were concerns about H1N1? I remember were some groups that were really criticizing how serious the reaction by the govt. was to H1N1 because "it's just the flu" & therefore no big deal. They felt the CDC & all the warnings were a complete overreaction. I could totally be wrong, but I can't help but think those are the same people that are today screaming at the govt for not doing enough. So they went overboard on their reaction to the pandemic that killed 12,000 people in our country that year, but aren't doing enough to stop the end of the world crisis that has so far killed 1 in our country & infected 2 more. There was an article today about the concern of hysteria over ebola www.nytimes.com/2014/10/16/health/ebolas-other-contagious-threat-hysteria.html?_r=0It has come up in other threads (I specifically remember the hot car thread), but people absolutely suck at judging risk. this is getting so f(*king stupid that i am almost done posting here. i would rather spend my time scoring music. working on an arrangement of a Cheryl Crow song tonight.
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Oct 15, 2014 23:36:37 GMT -5
Does anyone remember when there were concerns about H1N1? I remember were some groups that were really criticizing how serious the reaction by the govt. was to H1N1 because "it's just the flu" & therefore no big deal. They felt the CDC & all the warnings were a complete overreaction. I could totally be wrong, but I can't help but think those are the same people that are today screaming at the govt for not doing enough. So they went overboard on their reaction to the pandemic that killed 12,000 people in our country that year, but aren't doing enough to stop the end of the world crisis that has so far killed 1 in our country & infected 2 more. There was an article today about the concern of hysteria over ebola www.nytimes.com/2014/10/16/health/ebolas-other-contagious-threat-hysteria.html?_r=0It has come up in other threads (I specifically remember the hot car thread), but people absolutely suck at judging risk. this is getting so f(*king stupid that i am almost done posting here. i would rather spend my time scoring music. working on an arrangement of a Cheryl Crow song tonight. Who is this Cheryl Crow, you speak of? That name is not familiar to me.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 23:48:40 GMT -5
this is getting so f(*king stupid that i am almost done posting here. i would rather spend my time scoring music. working on an arrangement of a Cheryl Crow song tonight. Who is this Cheryl Crow, you speak of? That name is not familiar to me. really? i would think that with only one missed letter, and the phonetic similarity, almost anyone could get it. huh. for the record, i have a habit of spelling that name wrong. i am probably going to keep doing it until i am finished with this score. my apologies to SHERYL.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 23:51:38 GMT -5
Oh boy! This just gets worse and worse. So the nurse contacted the "authorities" for advice on flying and they gave her the ok? Looks to me like there have been failures at every level. Ive focused on the hospital so far, I'm looking at the CDC sideways too now. How many more things that should not have happened have to happen before we admit that maybe we arent as good at this as we think we are? And yet many here feel the President and CDC should not be more stringent in procedures. The CDC has shown to be incompetent to this point. Unless you were a doctor serving in Africa, then it's first class service all the way. Citizens not so much, you are on your own.
VB: you can hold the CDC's feet to the fire all you like, but i think the facts in THIS: www.medscape.com/viewarticle/833340are intensely disturbing. i can't imagine a less competent approach than Texas Presby took here. they failed MISERABLY dealing with this, exposed possibly 100 people to the virus, and showed extreme negligence at all stages. i have no idea what the CDC could have done to stop 1/10th of what went wrong here. if you do, i am all ears.
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Oct 15, 2014 23:56:14 GMT -5
Who is this Cheryl Crow, you speak of? That name is not familiar to me. i always spell her name wrong. so sue me. don't worry, i will get it right on the score. Yeah, I always don't know who Dr. Tom Frieden is...in an EBOLA thread! -rofl-Good luck on the score!
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 16, 2014 0:01:42 GMT -5
i always spell her name wrong. so sue me. don't worry, i will get it right on the score. Yeah, I always don't know who Dr. Tom Frieden is...in an EBOLA thread! if you are trying to annoy me, you are going to have to do a lot better than that. i tend to ignore names, b2b. -rofl-Good luck on the score! thanks, but i honestly don't rely much on luck. skill is a better ally.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 16, 2014 0:11:11 GMT -5
so, b2r, i know you are fascinated with me. trust me, i understand. you are not alone. i am pretty fascinating.
but do you have anything RELEVANT to share with us about this debate? maybe you could try reviewing the article i cited in post 303, which paints a picture of abject failure on the part of Texas Presby (disclaimer- if i made a mistake on the name of the hospital, i am referring to the hospital that we have been discussing for the last several weeks. you know, the one that has been ground zero for our US ebola problem...). how would the CDC have prevented the LITANY of failures at this place?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 16, 2014 0:15:27 GMT -5
What the eff are you talking about, VB? Yes, a doctor was sent home from West Africa with Ebola. So was a nurse's aide who was working there and was also infected. I'd call both of those citizens!
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 16, 2014 0:19:29 GMT -5
Does anyone remember when there were concerns about H1N1? I remember were some groups that were really criticizing how serious the reaction by the govt. was to H1N1 because "it's just the flu" & therefore no big deal. They felt the CDC & all the warnings were a complete overreaction. I could totally be wrong, but I can't help but think those are the same people that are today screaming at the govt for not doing enough. So they went overboard on their reaction to the pandemic that killed 12,000 people in our country that year, but aren't doing enough to stop the end of the world crisis that has so far killed 1 in our country & infected 2 more. There was an article today about the concern of hysteria over ebola www.nytimes.com/2014/10/16/health/ebolas-other-contagious-threat-hysteria.html?_r=0It has come up in other threads (I specifically remember the hot car thread), but people absolutely suck at judging risk. this is getting so f(*king stupid that i am almost done posting here. i would rather spend my time scoring music. working on an arrangement of a Cheryl Crow song tonight. I'm with you, dj. I had to go get a huge bowl of butter pecan ice cream, add hot fudge, and indulge. Otherwise, I was about to lose it.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 16, 2014 0:23:17 GMT -5
this is getting so f(*king stupid that i am almost done posting here. i would rather spend my time scoring music. working on an arrangement of a Cheryl Crow song tonight. I'm with you, dj. I had to go get a huge bowl of butter pecan ice cream, add hot fudge, and indulge. Otherwise, I was about to lose it. i managed to catch the end of the Giants game, too. and misspell a name or two, apparently.
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Oct 16, 2014 0:24:53 GMT -5
so, b2r, i know you are fascinated with me. trust me, i understand. you are not alone. i am pretty fascinating. but do you have anything RELEVANT to share with us about this debate? maybe you could try reviewing the article i cited in post 17, which paints a picture of abject failure on the part of Texas Presby (disclaimer- if i made a mistake on the name of the hospital, i am referring to the hospital that we have been discussing for the last several weeks. you know, the one that has been ground zero for our US ebola problem...). how would the CDC have prevented the LITANY of failures at this place? post 17? You're starting to concern me DJ!
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Post by Angel! on Oct 16, 2014 0:29:52 GMT -5
What exactly is the job of the CDC? What should they be doing without being accused of being a govt agency run amok?
Also, I think it is totally unrealistic to think there wouldn't be a learning curve on something like this. It sucks, but people make mistakes, people aren't prepared. I kind of hope this is eye-opening to people that think we couldn't have an epidemic sweep through this country. I seriously doubt this will be it because of the nature of the illness. But, something else, something airborne, we could be screwed. If this was more contagious & had a period where you were contagious without symptoms, hundreds would be infected already. Then they would be looking at ways to force quarantine a large population, dallas would basically shut down, the rest of the country would be terrified & they should be because you may not be able to stop it at that point. The preppers aren't completely wrong to prepare...although I think most are worried about some political upheaval, not something of this nature. But, in some aspects our safety is just an illusion & we are one crisis away from unbelievable chaos & death.
ETA - My mom is a big prepper. Just last week she gave a couple boxes of the dried food stuff that will last a decade or so (I already have a bunch already). It just now occurred to me that this ebola was probably why.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 16, 2014 0:30:09 GMT -5
so, b2r, i know you are fascinated with me. trust me, i understand. you are not alone. i am pretty fascinating. but do you have anything RELEVANT to share with us about this debate? maybe you could try reviewing the article i cited in post 17, which paints a picture of abject failure on the part of Texas Presby (disclaimer- if i made a mistake on the name of the hospital, i am referring to the hospital that we have been discussing for the last several weeks. you know, the one that has been ground zero for our US ebola problem...). how would the CDC have prevented the LITANY of failures at this place? post 17? You're starting to concern me DJ! And, pray, what is the CDC to do about that. The protocols are there. If hospitals like this one aren't following them, what would you suggest? First of all, how are you going to know which hospitals are and which aren't following protocols? Gonna put somebody in the house 24/7/365 to monitor every floor, all day and night, all the time? Wha'cha gonna do? Hmmm?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 16, 2014 0:30:18 GMT -5
so, b2r, i know you are fascinated with me. trust me, i understand. you are not alone. i am pretty fascinating. but do you have anything RELEVANT to share with us about this debate? maybe you could try reviewing the article i cited in post 17, which paints a picture of abject failure on the part of Texas Presby (disclaimer- if i made a mistake on the name of the hospital, i am referring to the hospital that we have been discussing for the last several weeks. you know, the one that has been ground zero for our US ebola problem...). how would the CDC have prevented the LITANY of failures at this place? post 17? You're starting to concern me DJ! sorry, i meant "post 17 mins ago". my bad. post 303. i am getting very tired.....
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 16, 2014 0:33:56 GMT -5
What exactly is the job of the CDC? What should they be doing without being accused of being a govt agency run amok? Also, I think it is totally unrealistic to think there wouldn't be a learning curve on something like this. It sucks, but people make mistakes, people aren't prepared. I kind of hope this is eye-opening to people that think we couldn't have an epidemic sweep through this country. I seriously doubt this will be it because of the nature of the illness. But, something else, something airborne, we could be screwed. If this was more contagious & had a period where you were contagious without symptoms, hundreds would be infected already. Then they would be looking at ways to force quarantine a large population, dallas would basically shut down, the rest of the country would be terrified & they should be because you may not be able to stop it at that point. The preppers aren't completely wrong to prepare...although I think most are worried about some political upheaval, not something of this nature. But, in some aspects our safety is just an illusion & we are one crisis away from unbelievable chaos & death. yeah, i hate to use the term LUCKY here, but i really think we are. this is the equivalent of having a white hat hacker get into your system. we can easily beat this one, and i am pretty confident that is precisely what is going to happen. but i agree, and have stated it MANY times in this thread, if this were more contagious, we would be screwed.
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Post by b2r on Oct 16, 2014 0:36:04 GMT -5
post 17? You're starting to concern me DJ! sorry, i meant "post 17 mins ago". my bad. post 303. i am getting very tired..... Yeah, that site looks nice, but you can't view anything without a username and password...whatelse you got?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 16, 2014 0:41:14 GMT -5
sorry, i meant "post 17 mins ago". my bad. post 303. i am getting very tired..... Yeah, that site looks nice, but you can't view anything without a username and password...whatelse you got? huh? i am not a subscriber, and i got right in. you talking about THIS one?: www.medscape.com/viewarticle/833340
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 16, 2014 0:42:29 GMT -5
What exactly is the job of the CDC? What should they be doing without being accused of being a govt agency run amok? Also, I think it is totally unrealistic to think there wouldn't be a learning curve on something like this. It sucks, but people make mistakes, people aren't prepared. I kind of hope this is eye-opening to people that think we couldn't have an epidemic sweep through this country. I seriously doubt this will be it because of the nature of the illness. But, something else, something airborne, we could be screwed. If this was more contagious & had a period where you were contagious without symptoms, hundreds would be infected already. Then they would be looking at ways to force quarantine a large population, dallas would basically shut down, the rest of the country would be terrified & they should be because you may not be able to stop it at that point. The preppers aren't completely wrong to prepare...although I think most are worried about some political upheaval, not something of this nature. But, in some aspects our safety is just an illusion & we are one crisis away from unbelievable chaos & death. yeah, i hate to use the term LUCKY here, but i really think we are. this is the equivalent of having a white hat hacker get into your system. we can easily beat this one, and i am pretty confident that is precisely what is going to happen. but i agree, and have stated it MANY times in this thread, if this were more contagious, we would be screwed. Precisely. If hospitals are actually getting so slack as to get themselves into the mess Texas Presby has gotten itself into, this wake-up call was sorely needed. This is NOT rocket science. It's a known, and it's been a known. Ebola isn't the only bug out there that requires contact precautions. There are bugs out there that require even more precaution because they're airborne. While all of them might not kill you, they sure can under the right circumstances. Wake up and smell the bacteria!
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 16, 2014 0:46:02 GMT -5
yeah, i hate to use the term LUCKY here, but i really think we are. this is the equivalent of having a white hat hacker get into your system. we can easily beat this one, and i am pretty confident that is precisely what is going to happen. but i agree, and have stated it MANY times in this thread, if this were more contagious, we would be screwed. Precisely. If hospitals are actually getting so slack as to get themselves into the mess Texas Presby has gotten itself into, this wake-up call was sorely needed. This is NOT rocket science. It's a known, and it's been a known. Ebola isn't the only bug out there that requires contact precautions. There are bugs out there that require even more precaution because they're airborne. While all of them might not kill you, they sure can under the right circumstances. Wake up and smell the bacteria! just read tonight that there are either 31 or 41 viruses that are classified as "hemmoragal" (sic- i don't know how to spell this, either), and have identical protocols to ebola. it seems to me that having procedures for them, EVEN IN THE ABSENCE OF EBOLA OR THE CDC, might be a good idea if you were in the "patient care" business. but what do i know? i just build s*&t for a living.
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Post by b2r on Oct 16, 2014 0:48:44 GMT -5
Yeah, that site looks nice, but you can't view anything without a username and password...whatelse you got? huh? i am not a subscriber, and i got right in. you talking about THIS one?: www.medscape.com/viewarticle/833340 Yeah, that one! I'm not joining MEDSCAPE to view whatever pertinent information you think I'm lacking!
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 16, 2014 0:53:12 GMT -5
Yeah, that one! I'm not joining MEDSCAPE to view whatever pertinent information you think I'm lacking! like i say, i just cruised right in. it is puzzling why you can't access it. but here are a couple of excerpts: Nurses at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital Dallas claim that the hospital administration failed to follow basic infection control principles and provided inadequate training and personal protective equipment for them to use when caring for a patient with Ebola virus, according to a statement they issued on October 14.
The nurses made their statement anonymously through National Nurses United, the largest union and professional association for nurses in the United States, because they say they are afraid of retaliation from the hospital.
Deborah Burger, RN, Co-President of National Nurses United, read the statement at a press conference October 15. The nurses say that the hospital’s actions placed them and other patients at risk after Thomas Eric Duncan was brought to the hospital with suspected Ebola virus infection on September 28. He was later admitted to the hospital and died there on October 8.
Two nurses who cared for Duncan have since been diagnosed with Ebola virus infection, and an additional 75 individuals are being monitored for symptoms. so, this answers the question i had earlier: 75 nurses or cleaning persons were exposed due to the GROSS NEGLIGENCE on the part of this hospital. do you think that the hospital is responsible for that in any way, or are you just going to continue heaping blame on Doctor Tom Whatsizface?
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 16, 2014 0:55:48 GMT -5
here is some more. each section more outrageous, frightening, and maddening than the previous:
The nurses allege that Duncan was not isolated for several hours after being brought to the hospital by ambulance and was left in an open area in the emergency department (ED) with as many as seven other patients. The nursing supervisor demanded that he be isolated, and "faced resistance from other hospital authorities."
They say that patients who had potential exposure to Duncan were kept in strict isolation units for one day and then transferred to areas with other patients — even those with low-grade fevers who were potentially contagious.
Duncan's lab specimens were sent through the hospital's pneumatic tube system to the lab, potentially contaminating the entire pneumatic tube system.
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Post by Angel! on Oct 16, 2014 0:58:28 GMT -5
Yeah, that one! I'm not joining MEDSCAPE to view whatever pertinent information you think I'm lacking! like i say, i just cruised right in. it is puzzling why you can't access it. but here are a couple of excerpts: Nurses at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital Dallas claim that the hospital administration failed to follow basic infection control principles and provided inadequate training and personal protective equipment for them to use when caring for a patient with Ebola virus, according to a statement they issued on October 14.
The nurses made their statement anonymously through National Nurses United, the largest union and professional association for nurses in the United States, because they say they are afraid of retaliation from the hospital.
Deborah Burger, RN, Co-President of National Nurses United, read the statement at a press conference October 15. The nurses say that the hospital’s actions placed them and other patients at risk after Thomas Eric Duncan was brought to the hospital with suspected Ebola virus infection on September 28. He was later admitted to the hospital and died there on October 8.
Two nurses who cared for Duncan have since been diagnosed with Ebola virus infection, and an additional 75 individuals are being monitored for symptoms. so, this answers the question i had earlier: 75 nurses or cleaning persons were exposed due to the GROSS NEGLIGENCE on the part of this hospital. do you think that the hospital is responsible for that in any way, or are you just going to continue heaping blame on Doctor Tom Whatsizface? If what the nurses are claiming is true, then the hospital was absolutely negligent. I think the nurses should have probably been more pro-active in their own safety, but who knows what conversations took place in those early days. I am kind of expecting there will be lawsuits at some point.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 16, 2014 0:59:52 GMT -5
there was a section in that report about the CDC violating protocols, as well. perhaps that will inspire you to search it out using "the google". but i have reached my limit of formatting error correction for the evening, so i bid you farewell.
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 16, 2014 1:02:31 GMT -5
like i say, i just cruised right in. it is puzzling why you can't access it. but here are a couple of excerpts: Nurses at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital Dallas claim that the hospital administration failed to follow basic infection control principles and provided inadequate training and personal protective equipment for them to use when caring for a patient with Ebola virus, according to a statement they issued on October 14.
The nurses made their statement anonymously through National Nurses United, the largest union and professional association for nurses in the United States, because they say they are afraid of retaliation from the hospital.
Deborah Burger, RN, Co-President of National Nurses United, read the statement at a press conference October 15. The nurses say that the hospital’s actions placed them and other patients at risk after Thomas Eric Duncan was brought to the hospital with suspected Ebola virus infection on September 28. He was later admitted to the hospital and died there on October 8.
Two nurses who cared for Duncan have since been diagnosed with Ebola virus infection, and an additional 75 individuals are being monitored for symptoms. so, this answers the question i had earlier: 75 nurses or cleaning persons were exposed due to the GROSS NEGLIGENCE on the part of this hospital. do you think that the hospital is responsible for that in any way, or are you just going to continue heaping blame on Doctor Tom Whatsizface? If what the nurses are claiming is true, then the hospital was absolutely negligent. I think the nurses should have probably been more pro-active in their own safety, but who knows what conversations took place in those early days. I am kind of expecting there will be lawsuits at some point. i have no way of verifying the accuracy of this account, Angel- but it has been picked up by several major news sources. that is generally a good indication that it has been vetted, but no guarantee. i would also add that the level of detail here is pretty unusual for a false account. but i am really tired this evening. and yes, i am way more worried reading this that ONE really incompetent hospital could put a lot of people in Dallas at risk.
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 16, 2014 1:32:35 GMT -5
Precisely. If hospitals are actually getting so slack as to get themselves into the mess Texas Presby has gotten itself into, this wake-up call was sorely needed. This is NOT rocket science. It's a known, and it's been a known. Ebola isn't the only bug out there that requires contact precautions. There are bugs out there that require even more precaution because they're airborne. While all of them might not kill you, they sure can under the right circumstances. Wake up and smell the bacteria! just read tonight that there are either 31 or 41 viruses that are classified as "hemmoragal" (sic- i don't know how to spell this, either), and have identical protocols to ebola. it seems to me that having procedures for them, EVEN IN THE ABSENCE OF EBOLA OR THE CDC, might be a good idea if you were in the "patient care" business. but what do i know? i just build s*&t for a living. You are absolutely correct. As I said, contact isolation is not an unknown quantity and hemorrhagic fevers aren't the only illnesses that require contact isolation. Why it's suddenly such a wretched disaster is a mystery to me! This is first year nursing stuff, for crying out tears.
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mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 16, 2014 1:38:13 GMT -5
like i say, i just cruised right in. it is puzzling why you can't access it. but here are a couple of excerpts: Nurses at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital Dallas claim that the hospital administration failed to follow basic infection control principles and provided inadequate training and personal protective equipment for them to use when caring for a patient with Ebola virus, according to a statement they issued on October 14.
The nurses made their statement anonymously through National Nurses United, the largest union and professional association for nurses in the United States, because they say they are afraid of retaliation from the hospital.
Deborah Burger, RN, Co-President of National Nurses United, read the statement at a press conference October 15. The nurses say that the hospital’s actions placed them and other patients at risk after Thomas Eric Duncan was brought to the hospital with suspected Ebola virus infection on September 28. He was later admitted to the hospital and died there on October 8.
Two nurses who cared for Duncan have since been diagnosed with Ebola virus infection, and an additional 75 individuals are being monitored for symptoms. so, this answers the question i had earlier: 75 nurses or cleaning persons were exposed due to the GROSS NEGLIGENCE on the part of this hospital. do you think that the hospital is responsible for that in any way, or are you just going to continue heaping blame on Doctor Tom Whatsizface? If what the nurses are claiming is true, then the hospital was absolutely negligent. I think the nurses should have probably been more pro-active in their own safety, but who knows what conversations took place in those early days. I am kind of expecting there will be lawsuits at some point. I've been front-line in a few battles over this kind of thing. The hospital wants to save money so the big brass come up with a brilliant idea. The nurses take one look at it and blow 100 New Jersey sized holes in it because it doesn't meet protocols and leaves them without what they need to deliver adequate care and keep themselves safe (note, I said adequate care - not spectacular). The big brass scream and holler and dig in their collective heels. It ain't easy to get some of this stuff done. You have to be determined, tireless, fearless, and mean as a snake. It can be done, but it really does take a lot out of you. The nurses may have been asking for things like this, or ... they may have asked and been refused so many times they just gave up. Who knows?
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