hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Oct 15, 2014 13:51:36 GMT -5
Holy paranoia! Some of the folks in here are getting way ahead of themselves. Its been two people, who were closest to Duncan when he was his most contagious. Yes this was a screw up on the hospitals part, but this is not going to become the real life version of the movie Outbreak. The first nurse is already improving. We have the ability to contain this. Every single American that has been diagnosed has survived. I think the only reason we couldn't save Duncan was because his immune system is weaker than that of the average American, and the infection took over too quickly.
I don't understand why everyone is working themselves into such a panic already. Why don't you all at least wait to see if anyone from the flight becomes sick, then you can say the sky is falling. It's not panic... it's reasonable concern. As I illustrated earlier, Nurse #2 could have been symptomatic while on that flight. All we know for sure is that she didn't have a fever at her last check before the flight and she did on her first check after. Sometime between that she spiked a fever. The people who are questioning and calling for more strict control. Understand the potential and the increased probability for spreading this disease each time we have one of the "Oopsie" moments. So now we have all of the people who where on that flight exposed needlessly. Do they have a high probability for contracting the disease from Nurse #2, no. Is it a higher probability than they would have had she not been on the flight, yes. The same can be said for anyone coming in to the country from an outbreak country. Is it probable that the next traveler is infected, Yes. If a traveler is infected does it increase the probability that they will infect someone else in this country, yes. Is it a high probablity, no. Is it higher than if they don't come into the country, yes. I get what you are saying, but I think everyone is severely underestimating the immune systems we have compared to those of starving people in third world countries that might already be suffering from another disease prior to contracting ebola. I think that even if this spreads to more people, our death toll will be minimal due to our healthcare facilities, the treatments we can provide, and the strength of our immune systems. Nigeria healed people just by using AC and keeping them hydrated and nourished. This is not that serious of an issue for a healthy population. West Africans are sick people pretty much from the time they are born, until the time they pass. They get sick just by opening their eyes in the morning.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 15, 2014 13:51:41 GMT -5
So my next question... when did the fever start? Let's say for arguments sake this person took her temperature 10 minutes before the flight @ 5pm (totally making up this time) and it was normal. She then took it at 8 am the next morning and it was elevated. When did the fever start? Did it start at 7:55 am or did it start at 5:05 pm? is a person infectious the SECOND they have a fever? i am not being a smartass, i genuinely don't know. do you? The person is infectious if Ebola is the cause of the fever (it could be a simple case of the flu); however, nobody is in danger from that person unless they come in DIRECT contact with that person's body fluids through a break in the skin, or mucous membranes.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 15, 2014 13:53:24 GMT -5
What difference does it make how long there is "between"? You're not infectious UNTIL you're infectious. Really? So there's a 12 hour window during which she spiked a fever. During that 12 hour window she's on a plane. She could have been infectious while she was on the plane. If nobody on the plane came in DIRECT contact with her body fluids, it doesn't matter if she had Ebola, or not. She wasn't vomiting or bleeding and she didn't have diarrhoea.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2014 14:10:22 GMT -5
The person is infectious if Ebola is the cause of the fever (it could be a simple case of the flu); however, nobody is in danger from that person unless they come in DIRECT contact with that person's body fluids through a break in the skin, or mucous membranes. What is this round 3 now? Everyone understands the direct contact. However everyone is also keenly aware of the close quarters on planes. The way people sneeze and spray surfaces around them with snot and spit, go to the bathroom and pee on random surfaces, sweat because the air conditioning is not working, get nosebleeds from the dry air, etc. Yes the human body does a decent job keeping all the gooey bits on the inside, however that doesn't make it 100% contained. The risk here is pretty low. It is more than 0, but still pretty low. There isn't much virus in the body when the fever starts. Look at the Duncan case. His family is still fine. It's the nurses, who were in contact with him when he was really sick, who were infected.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Oct 15, 2014 14:18:39 GMT -5
An interesting article on the nursing conditions upon Duncan's arrival www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/dallas-nurses-describe-ebola-hospital-care-there-was-no-protocol/ar-AA6RbsNIf this is true, then it is pretty clear why nurses are getting sick. My Dad worked in a hospital doing medical supplies. The company that was in charge of the supplying & supplies was actually a third party. It was interesting because their primary interest is keeping costs down & a big way to do that is to reduce inventory sitting around the hospital. But what happened A LOT is a doctor would need such & such equipment. But, the medical supplier wouldn't store that in the hospital because it is so rarely needed. Then the medical supply company will tell the doctor that they have a supply of such & such equipment & just use that. The problem is often their "just use this" solution wasn't the same & wasn't an acceptable replacement. Point is, I could totally see hospitals not having the needed amount of protective gear for an ebola patient on-hand & nurses getting screwed. I hope every hospital in the country is taking note & upping their supply.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Oct 15, 2014 14:25:36 GMT -5
The risk here is pretty low. It is more than 0, but still pretty low. There isn't much virus in the body when the fever starts. Look at the Duncan case. His family is still fine. It's the nurses, who were in contact with him when he was really sick, who were infected. I've never said the risk of this particular case is high. I know it's not high. But the cumulative effect of all of these exposures does raise the probability. To put it another way. If I get a concussion today my chance for catastrophic brain damage is pretty low but it can happen. If I get a concussion, today, next week, and then a month later, my chances for catastrophic brain damage increases each time. I think that's the frustrating bit (for me at least) it's not any one of these oopies that is panic worthy. It's the continued and systematic failures coupled with the complete arrogance and nonchalance that scares the hell out of me. I guess I don't see the arrogance & nonchalance. I'm sure that hospital knows they screwed up big-time & I'm sure every hospital in the country is taking note & learning from their mistakes. I just don't think those mistakes need to turn into panic for the general public. This still isn't close to an outbreak in our country & I am still very confident that it won't. Time could prove me wrong.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Oct 15, 2014 14:26:05 GMT -5
What is this round 3 now? Everyone understands the direct contact. However everyone is also keenly aware of the close quarters on planes. The way people sneeze and spray surfaces around them with snot and spit, go to the bathroom and pee on random surfaces, sweat because the air conditioning is not working, get nosebleeds from the dry air, etc. Yes the human body does a decent job keeping all the gooey bits on the inside, however that doesn't make it 100% contained. The risk here is pretty low. It is more than 0, but still pretty low. There isn't much virus in the body when the fever starts. Look at the Duncan case. His family is still fine. It's the nurses, who were in contact with him when he was really sick, who were infected. This does beg the question...... He came here to marry someone. I assume there was some hugging and kissing involved with her, upon his arrival, and yet she is free of symptoms? Remember they were together until he went to the hospital, with full blown infection, sent home and was with the family until he went to the hospital a second time. Unless she was saying I will not touch you with a ten foot pole, because you might have Ebola, she or others in the house should have been infected.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 14:39:14 GMT -5
proper diagnosis and protocol would have also prevented that outcome. agreed? Agreed. Didn't happen. Agreed? of course.
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 14:42:14 GMT -5
The person is infectious if Ebola is the cause of the fever (it could be a simple case of the flu); however, nobody is in danger from that person unless they come in DIRECT contact with that person's body fluids through a break in the skin, or mucous membranes. What is this round 3 now? Everyone understands the direct contact. However everyone is also keenly aware of the close quarters on planes. The way people sneeze and spray surfaces around them with snot and spit, i have not heard that this disease is spread through saliva. have you?go to the bathroom and pee on random surfaces, sweat because the air conditioning is not working, get nosebleeds from the dry air, etc. Yes the human body does a decent job keeping all the gooey bits on the inside, however that doesn't make it 100% contained. no, but it makes it pretty well contained. the people she sat next to on the plane MAYBE should be checked. MAYBE.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Oct 15, 2014 14:43:26 GMT -5
The risk here is pretty low. It is more than 0, but still pretty low. There isn't much virus in the body when the fever starts. Look at the Duncan case. His family is still fine. It's the nurses, who were in contact with him when he was really sick, who were infected. This does beg the question...... He came here to marry someone. I assume there was some hugging and kissing involved with her, upon his arrival, and yet she is free of symptoms? Remember they were together until he went to the hospital, with full blown infection, sent home and was with the family until he went to the hospital a second time. Unless she was saying I will not touch you with a ten foot pole, because you might have Ebola, she or others in the house should have been infected.
Are you talking about Duncan? So far his whole family is still symptom-free.
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 15, 2014 14:43:49 GMT -5
The risk here is pretty low. It is more than 0, but still pretty low. There isn't much virus in the body when the fever starts. Look at the Duncan case. His family is still fine. It's the nurses, who were in contact with him when he was really sick, who were infected. This does beg the question...... He came here to marry someone. I assume there was some hugging and kissing involved with her, upon his arrival, and yet she is free of symptoms? Remember they were together until he went to the hospital, with full blown infection, sent home and was with the family until he went to the hospital a second time. Unless she was saying I will not touch you with a ten foot pole, because you might have Ebola, she or others in the house should have been infected.
Yes, Ms. Troh has been in quarantine since he was diagnosed and I believe her 21-day period will end on Friday. She is so far free of any symptoms, as are the rest of his family.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 14:44:16 GMT -5
An interesting article on the nursing conditions upon Duncan's arrival www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/dallas-nurses-describe-ebola-hospital-care-there-was-no-protocol/ar-AA6RbsNIf this is true, then it is pretty clear why nurses are getting sick. My Dad worked in a hospital doing medical supplies. The company that was in charge of the supplying & supplies was actually a third party. It was interesting because their primary interest is keeping costs down & a big way to do that is to reduce inventory sitting around the hospital. But what happened A LOT is a doctor would need such & such equipment. But, the medical supplier wouldn't store that in the hospital because it is so rarely needed. Then the medical supply company will tell the doctor that they have a supply of such & such equipment & just use that. The problem is often their "just use this" solution wasn't the same & wasn't an acceptable replacement. Point is, I could totally see hospitals not having the needed amount of protective gear for an ebola patient on-hand & nurses getting screwed. I hope every hospital in the country is taking note & upping their supply. this hospital sucks, imo. this type of gear should be at EVERY hospital. EVERY.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 14:45:59 GMT -5
The risk here is pretty low. It is more than 0, but still pretty low. There isn't much virus in the body when the fever starts. Look at the Duncan case. His family is still fine. It's the nurses, who were in contact with him when he was really sick, who were infected. This does beg the question...... He came here to marry someone. I assume there was some hugging and kissing involved with her, upon his arrival, and yet she is free of symptoms? Remember they were together until he went to the hospital, with full blown infection, sent home and was with the family until he went to the hospital a second time. Unless she was saying I will not touch you with a ten foot pole, because you might have Ebola, she or others in the house should have been infected.
again, i have never heard that this could be spread through saliva. please correct me if i am wrong.
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Post by Value Buy on Oct 15, 2014 14:51:11 GMT -5
This does beg the question...... He came here to marry someone. I assume there was some hugging and kissing involved with her, upon his arrival, and yet she is free of symptoms? Remember they were together until he went to the hospital, with full blown infection, sent home and was with the family until he went to the hospital a second time. Unless she was saying I will not touch you with a ten foot pole, because you might have Ebola, she or others in the house should have been infected.
again, i have never heard that this could be spread through saliva. please correct me if i am wrong. I am not the medical specialist here, and cannot answer your question, but saliva was always considered a bodily fluid. Maybe it has to be a blood borne pathogen? I do not know
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Post by b2r on Oct 15, 2014 14:55:19 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 15:03:24 GMT -5
The risk here is pretty low. It is more than 0, but still pretty low. There isn't much virus in the body when the fever starts. Look at the Duncan case. His family is still fine. It's the nurses, who were in contact with him when he was really sick, who were infected. I've never said the risk of this particular case is high. I know it's not high. But the cumulative effect of all of these exposures does raise the probability. To put it another way. If I get a concussion today my chance for catastrophic brain damage is pretty low but it can happen. If I get a concussion, today, next week, and then a month later, my chances for catastrophic brain damage increases each time. I think that's the frustrating bit (for me at least) it's not any one of these oopies that is panic worthy. It's the continued and systematic failures coupled with the complete arrogance and nonchalance that scares the hell out of me. i think that you see as much nonchalance as i see panic. you don't see any panic. i don't see any nonchalance.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 15:04:57 GMT -5
again, i have never heard that this could be spread through saliva. please correct me if i am wrong. I am not the medical specialist here, and cannot answer your question, but saliva was always considered a bodily fluid.
me too. but i was asking specifically about saliva. i don't think there is any documented case of this transmitted, ie, by SNEEZING.
Maybe it has to be a blood borne pathogen? I do not know
i have heard vomit and blood so far. i am just asking for a clarification.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 15:05:35 GMT -5
yeah- that's right. i heard SWEAT, too. ok, thanks.
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Oct 15, 2014 15:06:02 GMT -5
I am not the medical specialist here, and cannot answer your question, but saliva was always considered a bodily fluid.
me too. but i was asking specifically about saliva. i don't think there is any documented case of this transmitted, ie, by SNEEZING.
Maybe it has to be a blood borne pathogen? I do not know
i have heard vomit and blood so far. i am just asking for a clarification. And diarrhea.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 15:06:36 GMT -5
thanks, Sroo. i had not heard that.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Oct 15, 2014 15:10:05 GMT -5
i have heard vomit and blood so far. i am just asking for a clarification. And diarrhea. Really puts a damper on the Coprophilias of the world.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Oct 15, 2014 15:42:09 GMT -5
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Oct 15, 2014 15:43:13 GMT -5
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Post by resolution on Oct 15, 2014 15:43:20 GMT -5
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 15, 2014 15:43:41 GMT -5
There's a current thread in Current Events, P_I. I'm going to move this to that thread.
mmhmm, Politics Moderator
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Oct 15, 2014 15:49:23 GMT -5
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 15, 2014 16:06:54 GMT -5
Very, very stupid. She should lose her license as far as I'm concerned. If she didn't vomit, or have diarrhoea on the plane (and didn't sneeze or spit directly into someone's face) the passengers who flew with her will be fine. That's not the point. She knew what she was doing and did it anyway. She's got no damned business even being a nurse! Makes me livid!
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 15, 2014 16:08:46 GMT -5
yeah- that's right. i heard SWEAT, too. ok, thanks. Any body fluid. If you've got a break in your skin, or the fluid is expelled into mucous membrane (eyes, nose, mouth), it can be transmitted.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Oct 15, 2014 16:09:26 GMT -5
I'm surprised she would put her family in danger, knowing that she could contaminate them all. She is definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed!
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 15, 2014 16:14:50 GMT -5
Here's a good, understandable article on transmission of Ebola and how it works in the body - why it gets more dangerous to others the longer you have it.
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