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Post by Opti on Oct 29, 2014 13:17:08 GMT -5
Maybe they will. If nobody gets Ebola despite what these two terrible people have done/are doing, maybe the public will finally get a freaking grip! It will take awhile. Those in deep fear and Ebola information starved will choose to see it as the worst thing ever. Or at least recently.
Really unless you get blood transfusions or have sex with people who have been exposed to Ebola I think you are good. But those in fear are going to fixate on any detail that might possibly mean their safety might be in jeopardy. Most fear based people don't get that being out of the public when you don't have symptoms does not make the public any safer than you being in public.
They assume that any exposure to Ebola no matter how small means contracting it. It doesn't. So far I don't think any scientist anywhere has found a disease that can be spread just by flicking one cell(unit) of it on someone's body. It takes many because your immune system actually works. One or below a certain threshold is not enough to contract Ebola and most things. But that's logic. Far more people are going to post and email that OMG these people don't want to stay in their homes so we can feel safe.
Oh nooooooz, I don't know how I am going to get Ebola, not notice in time, and die from it, but I'm sure its a possibility because these people refuse to stay home!!!! (now to figure out how to monetize all this stupid fear since reason and humor isn't making much progress...)
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Post by Opti on Oct 29, 2014 13:18:11 GMT -5
Maybe they will. If nobody gets Ebola despite what these two terrible people have done/are doing, maybe the public will finally get a freaking grip! Or maybe these scofflaws should not break the law. I think Maine's law is voluntary. (In case you care about facts.)
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 29, 2014 13:18:57 GMT -5
Or maybe these scofflaws should not break the law. I think Maine's law is voluntary. (In case you care about facts.) It is not. There were state police parked outside her home today, and the trooper said she would be arrested if she left home.
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Post by Opti on Oct 29, 2014 13:23:51 GMT -5
I remember when I first heard of Ebola and it indeed was a scary disease. Unlike those who choose to be afraid, I am focusing on the amazing positive facts. Only one person has died of it here in the US and he lied his way into the country and lied in his initial hospital stay. Had he been more upfront in his first hospital visit, he might have lived. So far with all the exposure people expect has happened - one death. To me that's fantastic news. Just to clarify, Mr. Duncan probably did not lie but rather, believed what he told officials. He had helped transport a very sick pregnant woman to the hospital in a taxi in Liberia, but the taxi driver reported that he had been told by the family that the woman did *not* have ebola and was suffering a miscarriage. The taxi driver, probably like Duncan, was misled by the family about what was going on. The fact that Mr. Duncan then hugged and kissed his step-grandchildren in TX and lived with his fiance indicate that he must have truly believed he was no danger to them. As for the hospital, he told the nurse that he was from Africa and a failure to follow up or suspect ebola was the hospital's oversight. Maybe yes, maybe no. He did actively lie about where he was in Africa to leave it. He didn't tell the health care workers initially where he had been either.
He may have been in denial or assumed he didn't have it. His actions do not confirm it one way or the other to me. He was aware there must be an issue when he flew out. And as it turned out, he wasn't a danger to them. On his second hospitalization he had the severe worrying contagious symptoms in under 24 hours of admission. That's cutting it pretty close yet apparently all those loved ones are alive and Ebola free.
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Post by Opti on Oct 29, 2014 13:25:26 GMT -5
I think Maine's law is voluntary. (In case you care about facts.) It is not. There were state police parked outside her home today, and the trooper said she would be arrested if she left home. Sadly, that means it has been changed from the info I read last.
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Post by Opti on Oct 29, 2014 13:34:48 GMT -5
Sorry, I mis-remembered, but here's the piece I read.
On September 15, 2014, the family of Marthalene Williams, who later died of Ebola virus disease (EVD), was unable to summon an ambulance to transfer the pregnant Williams to a hospital. Duncan, their tenant, helped to transfer Williams by taxi to an EVD treatment ward in Monrovia. Duncan rode in the taxi to the treatment ward with Williams, her father and her brother. The family was turned away due to lack of space and Duncan helped carry Williams from the taxi back into her home. Williams died shortly afterward.[23]
On September 19, Duncan went to the airport in Monrovia, where, according to Liberian officials, Duncan lied about his history of contact with the disease on an airport questionnaire before boarding a Brussels Airlines flight to Brussels. In Brussels, Duncan boarded United Airlines Flight 951 to Washington Dulles Airport.[24] From Washington, he boarded United Airlines Flight 822 to Dallas/Fort Worth. He arrived in Dallas at 7:01 p.m. CDT[25] on September 20, 2014,[9][10] and stayed with his partner and her five children, who lived in the Fair Oaks neighborhood of Dallas.[26][27]
However, Duncan said after he had landed in the U.S. that he did not know Williams had Ebola and believed she was having a miscarriage. Furthermore, the clinic did not refuse Williams due to lack of space, according to Duncan, but they "took blood samples from her and told her she could go".[28] In a newspaper editorial, Duncan's nephew, Josephus Weeks, denied the incident had happened at all, claiming, "while the stories of my uncle helping a pregnant woman with Ebola are courageous, Thomas Eric personally told me that never happened."[29] However, in a subsequent story published two days later, Weeks admitted it could have occurred knowing Duncan's natural caring attitude and behavior towards people: "There's no doubt in my mind that what's described in the news is something that Eric would do."[30]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebola_virus_disease_in_the_United_States
Notice the denial the incident even happened according to the nephew. Maybe he did not know. Its possible. But maybe he suspected and started hedging. He got it from somewhere. The fact that he may have lied to his nephew makes me think he may not have been truthful from the beginning.
Plus, there is this. was from Monrovia, Liberia, to date the country which has been hit hardest by the Ebola virus epidemic.[18] Duncan worked as a personal driver for the general manager of Safeway Cargo, a FedEx contractor in Liberia.[19] According to manager Henry Brunson, Duncan had abruptly quit his job on September 4, 2014, giving no reason.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2014 13:39:36 GMT -5
Quarantine a state, period, or place of isolation in which people or animals that have arrived from elsewhere or been exposed to infectious or contagious disease are placed:
Exposed is the key word here for those that continue to miss it.
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Post by Opti on Oct 29, 2014 13:44:39 GMT -5
Not Contagious is the two words for those who continue to miss when quarantine and medical treatment would be warranted for those exposed to Ebola.
I'll give you a hint, the asymptomatic days are just a waste of time and effort. Until symptoms show up, there is nothing to be contracted by other people. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif) ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif) ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2014 13:53:34 GMT -5
Not Contagious is the two words for those who continue to miss when quarantine and medical treatment would be warranted for those exposed to Ebola.
I'll give you a hint, the asymptomatic days are just a waste of time and effort. Until symptoms show up, there is nothing to be contracted by other people. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif) ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif) ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif) I will give you a hint also There is a reason we place those exposed to infectious disease in quarantine and not wait until they become symptomatic.
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 29, 2014 14:01:03 GMT -5
From what I understand the state has the option of seeking a court order to enforce the quarantine- something that they are proceeding with according to the Governor's office. It would be up to a judge to grant it.
So, now we're down to hoping for a judge with more than two active brain cells? ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/melancholy.png)
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Oct 29, 2014 14:07:21 GMT -5
From what I understand the state has the option of seeking a court order to enforce the quarantine- something that they are proceeding with according to the Governor's office. It would be up to a judge to grant it.
So, now we're down to hoping for a judge with more than two active brain cells? ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/melancholy.png) the Judge is not a medical expert, though. If the proper state authorities have deemed it necessary for her to be on voluntary quarantine and she refuses, I find it hard to see that a judge would just ignore the state medical authority. Seems like a tough case for the nurse to prove that she should be able to walk free.
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Post by justme on Oct 29, 2014 14:07:44 GMT -5
Not Contagious is the two words for those who continue to miss when quarantine and medical treatment would be warranted for those exposed to Ebola.
I'll give you a hint, the asymptomatic days are just a waste of time and effort. Until symptoms show up, there is nothing to be contracted by other people. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif) ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif) ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif) I will give you a hint also There is a reason we place those exposed to infectious disease in quarantine and not wait until they become symptomatic.
Hmm...didn't realize we placed those exposed to the flu, H1N1, any of the hepatitis, HIV, etc in quarantine until they become symptomatic. Good to know we're quarantining those infinitely more infections diseases*. I feel safer! *One or two listed have similar infection rates, but those infected are a much larger number so I thought they fit.
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Post by justme on Oct 29, 2014 14:08:41 GMT -5
I would like to think and hope that a judge would consider the CDC a proper medical authority and listen to them.
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Post by Opti on Oct 29, 2014 14:10:39 GMT -5
Sweetdreams, if your goal really is to stop the spread of Ebola the methods being used are over-kill and hence likely to have people start going around them and lying. These are real people who are losing money and time because of fear. I'm sure they are mostly OK with being confined when it is medically warranted.
But to potentially lose three weeks of your life with no one reimbursing you (except NY to some extent) especially if you never develop the disease I don't think many people really would be OK with that. Now people are forewarned, but imagine having to miss weddings, birthdays, Thanksgiving, etc. just because a good portion of people aren't willing to confine you only when it is medically necessary.
Are you going to give these people jobs when they lose them because they aren't there for three weeks? Are you going to reimburse them for the care of their homes, animals, people they were caring for - if they aren't on house arrest?
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 29, 2014 14:11:05 GMT -5
I remember when I first heard of Ebola and it indeed was a scary disease. Unlike those who choose to be afraid, I am focusing on the amazing positive facts. Only one person has died of it here in the US and he lied his way into the country and lied in his initial hospital stay. Had he been more upfront in his first hospital visit, he might have lived. So far with all the exposure people expect has happened - one death. To me that's fantastic news. Just to clarify, Mr. Duncan probably did not lie but rather, believed what he told officials. He had helped transport a very sick pregnant woman to the hospital in a taxi in Liberia, but the taxi driver reported that he had been told by the family that the woman did *not* have ebola and was suffering a miscarriage. The taxi driver, probably like Duncan, was misled by the family about what was going on. The fact that Mr. Duncan then hugged and kissed his step-grandchildren in TX and lived with his fiance indicate that he must have truly believed he was no danger to them. As for the hospital, he told the nurse that he was from Africa and a failure to follow up or suspect ebola was the hospital's oversight. the fact that Duncan didn't infect his family EVEN AFTER HE HAD DEVELOPED A FEVER really says all that needs to be said about the disease. the problem is that nobody is paying attention to the details, only the aftermath. clearly things were done wrong AT THE HOSPITAL. we need to work on that. quarantining Duncan would not have changed anything, as far as i can tell. the damage was done AFTER he was quarantined.
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 29, 2014 14:12:54 GMT -5
From what I understand the state has the option of seeking a court order to enforce the quarantine- something that they are proceeding with according to the Governor's office. It would be up to a judge to grant it.
it is possible that NO sensible person will see this problem for what it is. that has happened MANY times in the US. it might happen now.
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Post by Opti on Oct 29, 2014 14:17:40 GMT -5
I would like to think and hope that a judge would consider the CDC a proper medical authority and listen to them. One can hope.
Still if the CBS poll is somewhat accurate, roughly 80% of our population is running around wallowing in fear and what ifs instead of facts. From a numbers perspective, hoping he is part of the sane 20% is not a good bet. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/angry.png)
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 29, 2014 14:21:11 GMT -5
Not Contagious is the two words for those who continue to miss when quarantine and medical treatment would be warranted for those exposed to Ebola.
I'll give you a hint, the asymptomatic days are just a waste of time and effort. Until symptoms show up, there is nothing to be contracted by other people. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif) ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif) ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif) I will give you a hint also There is a reason we place those exposed to infectious disease in quarantine and not wait until they become symptomatic.
not in the case of ebola. there is a reason to MONITOR in the case of diseases like AIDS, Hep C, and Ebola, and Leprosy. you know, diseases that are not especially infectious? to QUARANTINE people for these disorders is a waste of resources until they show symptoms.
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 29, 2014 14:22:01 GMT -5
So, now we're down to hoping for a judge with more than two active brain cells? ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/melancholy.png) the Judge is not a medical expert, though. If the proper state authorities have deemed it necessary for her to be on voluntary quarantine and she refuses, I find it hard to see that a judge would just ignore the state medical authority. Seems like a tough case for the nurse to prove that she should be able to walk free. i think the whole idea of jurisprudence is to analyze the facts, not the opinions.
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 29, 2014 14:23:27 GMT -5
I would like to think and hope that a judge would consider the CDC a proper medical authority and listen to them. One can hope.
Still if the CBS poll is somewhat accurate, roughly 80% of our population is running around wallowing in fear and what ifs instead of facts. From a numbers perspective, hoping he is part of the sane 20% is not a good bet. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/angry.png)
i expect more of judges, candidly. the odds are probably quite a bit better than 1:5
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Oct 29, 2014 14:26:50 GMT -5
the Judge is not a medical expert, though. If the proper state authorities have deemed it necessary for her to be on voluntary quarantine and she refuses, I find it hard to see that a judge would just ignore the state medical authority. Seems like a tough case for the nurse to prove that she should be able to walk free. i think the whole idea of jurisprudence is to analyze the facts, not the opinions. True. But judges don't make or change laws. Just enforce them. The facts are clear in the case. The "law" is that those exposed to Ebola are to be voluntarily quarantined for 21 days. The nurse was exposed to Ebola. She is not disputing that. Therefore the facts of the case are that she needs to be quarantined. if it is a bad law it needs to be changed by the proper auauthoritieswhich a judge is not.
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Post by Opti on Oct 29, 2014 14:28:06 GMT -5
Not Contagious is the two words for those who continue to miss when quarantine and medical treatment would be warranted for those exposed to Ebola.
I'll give you a hint, the asymptomatic days are just a waste of time and effort. Until symptoms show up, there is nothing to be contracted by other people. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif) ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif) ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif) I will give you a hint also There is a reason we place those exposed to infectious disease in quarantine and not wait until they become symptomatic.
Yes there can be reasons, but right now, none of them are good or valid in the case of Ebola.
Zero. Zilch. Nada. Waste of resources. It is not free to do these things. This will impact your taxes. Do you understand that?
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Oct 29, 2014 14:29:01 GMT -5
i think the whole idea of jurisprudence is to analyze the facts, not the opinions. True. But judges don't make or change laws. Just enforce them. The facts are clear in the case. The "law" is that those exposed to Ebola are to be voluntarily quarantined for 21 days. The nurse was exposed to Ebola. She is not disputing that. Therefore the facts of the case are that she needs to be quarantined. if it is a bad law it needs to be changed by the proper auauthoritieswhich a judge is not. Now I am oversimplying the law and the language of the actual law may have some more gray, or arguable, so they may be able to argue those facts. my point was just that if the law says she needs to be quarantined, I don't think a judge can just ignore that.
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Post by Opti on Oct 29, 2014 14:33:41 GMT -5
One can hope.
Still if the CBS poll is somewhat accurate, roughly 80% of our population is running around wallowing in fear and what ifs instead of facts. From a numbers perspective, hoping he is part of the sane 20% is not a good bet. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/angry.png)
i expect more of judges, candidly. the odds are probably quite a bit better than 1:5 I hope so, but I wonder how close the posters on this board are to the normal split.
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Post by Angel! on Oct 29, 2014 14:35:40 GMT -5
Not Contagious is the two words for those who continue to miss when quarantine and medical treatment would be warranted for those exposed to Ebola.
I'll give you a hint, the asymptomatic days are just a waste of time and effort. Until symptoms show up, there is nothing to be contracted by other people. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif) ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif) ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif) I will give you a hint also There is a reason we place those exposed to infectious disease in quarantine and not wait until they become symptomatic.
What is that reason? Not one person has caught the disease from someone in their initial stages despite not quarantining people exposed to the disease.
So if people can't catch it & the person isn't contagious....I can't think of any reason to quarantine the person. Except maybe fear. And it is sad if we are letting fear make our public policy decisions rather than facts.
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Post by Opti on Oct 29, 2014 14:36:32 GMT -5
True. But judges don't make or change laws. Just enforce them. The facts are clear in the case. The "law" is that those exposed to Ebola are to be voluntarily quarantined for 21 days. The nurse was exposed to Ebola. She is not disputing that. Therefore the facts of the case are that she needs to be quarantined. if it is a bad law it needs to be changed by the proper auauthoritieswhich a judge is not. Now I am oversimplying the law and the language of the actual law may have some more gray, or arguable, so they may be able to argue those facts. my point was just that if the law says she needs to be quarantined, I don't think a judge can just ignore that. I thought voluntarily quarantined though, meant one had a choice. Other states, like my own, have chosen mandatory quarantine.
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 29, 2014 14:42:10 GMT -5
Just to clarify, Mr. Duncan probably did not lie but rather, believed what he told officials. He had helped transport a very sick pregnant woman to the hospital in a taxi in Liberia, but the taxi driver reported that he had been told by the family that the woman did *not* have ebola and was suffering a miscarriage. The taxi driver, probably like Duncan, was misled by the family about what was going on. The fact that Mr. Duncan then hugged and kissed his step-grandchildren in TX and lived with his fiance indicate that he must have truly believed he was no danger to them. As for the hospital, he told the nurse that he was from Africa and a failure to follow up or suspect ebola was the hospital's oversight. Maybe yes, maybe no. He did actively lie about where he was in Africa to leave it. He didn't tell the health care workers initially where he had been either.
He may have been in denial or assumed he didn't have it. His actions do not confirm it one way or the other to me. He was aware there must be an issue when he flew out. And as it turned out, he wasn't a danger to them. On his second hospitalization he had the severe worrying contagious symptoms in under 24 hours of admission. That's cutting it pretty close yet apparently all those loved ones are alive and Ebola free.
I'm not sure what you're saying about him lying to leave Africa? He traveled from Liberia to Brussels via a commercial carrier because there are no direct flights to TX and Belgium is one of the few airports that still has flights to/from Liberia. He was questioned during the trip and responded that he hadn't had direct exposure to Ebola. You believe 'he was aware there must be an issue when he flew out?' Again, I'm not sure what you mean? Based on what? he was not symptomatic until well after arrival. If you thought you might have ebola, would you hug and kiss your children and sleep with your fiance & family in a small apartment?
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Post by NastyWoman on Oct 29, 2014 14:52:56 GMT -5
Now I am oversimplying the law and the language of the actual law may have some more gray, or arguable, so they may be able to argue those facts. my point was just that if the law says she needs to be quarantined, I don't think a judge can just ignore that. I thought voluntarily quarantined though, meant one had a choice. Other states, like my own, have chosen mandatory quarantine.
...until threatened by a lawsuit at which point they just sent the nurse to her home state. In this case NJ is all about forcing others to follow to follow absolutely non-sensical rules up to the point it might actually costs the state some real money! Political cowardice raised to yet another level ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/angry.png)
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 29, 2014 14:53:05 GMT -5
i expect more of judges, candidly. the odds are probably quite a bit better than 1:5 I hope so, but I wonder how close the posters on this board are to the normal split.
pretty normal, from what i can tell. about 3-4 of us are pretty in line with the CDC on this. the rest are either against us, or not talking. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 29, 2014 14:53:55 GMT -5
i think the whole idea of jurisprudence is to analyze the facts, not the opinions. True. But judges don't make or change laws. maybe on the planet of Zorgon, but here, they change s*&t all the time.
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