Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Mar 2, 2011 17:22:07 GMT -5
<<< I think Europe is reacting to Muslims the same way that the US reacts to Mexicans. They're the largest immigrant group and therefore subject to a great deal of fear and discrimination. This type of xenophobia is generally due to economics - they compete for low wage jobs and so the low wage (usually less educated and larger portion) populace transfers their anger over wage competition into a hatred of an ethnicity and a dominant narrative of "They're trying to take over". >>> ...I think you're wrong on this one... <<< Xenophobia is really a better term as it gets closer to the root... >>> ...fine... but Xenophobia is not a categorically "wrong" feeling... Make your case. I think I'm right on the former and that Xenophobia is a "wrong" feeling. Caution is acceptable in terms of the "other", fear is not.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Mar 2, 2011 17:23:00 GMT -5
Fair enough, it isn't really racism. But, I think my overall point still stands. For sure! I apologize for not making that clear when I responded
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Post by Mkitty is pro kitty on Mar 2, 2011 17:27:30 GMT -5
So these are the grand and sweeping changes promised by Republicans when they came in power. NASHVILLE – Tennessee Commissioner of Labor & Workforce Development Karla Davis announced today Tennessee’s unemployment rate for December was 9.4 percent, unchanged from the November rate. The national unemployment rate for December 2010 was 9.4 percent, 0.4 percentage point lower than the November rate. news.tennesseeanytime.org/node/6609Looks like jobs, jobs, jobs became red herrings, red herrings, red herrings. Lets see: redefining rape, check! abortions, check! Muslims, check! Any guesses on what's the next time-wasting, hot-button legislative controversy that will end up nowhere? My guess is it would be something to do with gays.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Mar 2, 2011 17:30:58 GMT -5
<<< Make your case. >>> ...why? imo, you didn't make your case... so make a stronger one, and maybe I'll be swayed... <<< Caution is acceptable in terms of the "other", fear is not. >>> ...then we're talking degree... why is a little okay but a lot not? ETA: actually, don't bother... you couldn't sway me unless you're Mohamed adding more to the Koran... (hey, at least I'm being up front about it!)
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 2, 2011 17:38:40 GMT -5
There is another thread going about how some states are trying to pass legislation regarding Obama's citizenship.
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burnsattornincan
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Post by burnsattornincan on Mar 2, 2011 17:39:41 GMT -5
State sponsored bigotry.
Kind of ironic it is a reaction to their State sponsored importation of poverty. Sad really. Did I ever say government cannot do anything right? Guilty.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 2, 2011 17:39:47 GMT -5
even the Muslims, don't want it. You are dead wrong making that assumption. Of course nothing could ever be proven but I am positive every single Muslim would like to see the entire world convert to Islam. You cannot deny they are doing this slowly but surely. While I cannot speak for her beliefs regarding what type of law she would have preferred, 20-year-old Noor Faleh Almaleki of the Phoenix, Az area and formerly from Iraq was intentionally run over (and eventually died) by a Jeep Cherokee drivng by her father because he believed she had become too Westernized and abandoned Iraqi traditional values. Sounds to me like she wasn't a big fan of Sharia law and Iraqi/Muslim customs and wished to be like any other American woman. Fortunately the father was recently found guilty of second-degree murder and is awating sentencing.
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 2, 2011 17:42:50 GMT -5
No, but her father was, and that's why he killed her...
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 2, 2011 17:43:40 GMT -5
Maybe you should talk to a few first.....I'm not making this stuff up. I have talked to many of them. Most will not tell you their true intentions. Do you really think they would? You have to trust your instinct on such matters. Mr. Burns-I don't know how you make your living but you would not do well as a mind reader.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2011 17:44:46 GMT -5
David Karesh was a Christian...
I suppose a Jewish Get would be illegal as well? (etc.)
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Mar 2, 2011 17:47:22 GMT -5
State sponsored bigotry.Kind of ironic it is a reaction to their State sponsored importation of poverty. Sad really. Did I ever say government cannot do anything right? Guilty. First time I've ever agreed with you on pretty much anything. It is ironic. First business pours money into a government to make it... if not friendly, at least not hostile, to wage slaves. Wage slaves pour into the country and native wage slaves throw a fit (xenophobia). Government then over-corrects and bows to native wage slaves by imposing restrictions on non-native wage slaves in any possible way. In France has resulted in laws like the anti-burqa law. In the US it's things like the bill cited in the OP.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 2, 2011 17:53:23 GMT -5
No, but her father was, and that's why he killed her... But I did find at least one Muslim didn't I which disproves Mr. Burns' claim.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Mar 2, 2011 17:59:40 GMT -5
<<< But I did find at least one Muslim didn't I which disproves Mr. Burns' claim. >>> ...you think so?
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 2, 2011 18:19:01 GMT -5
<<< But I did find at least one Muslim didn't I which disproves Mr. Burns' claim. >>> ...you think so? Burns claimed he was positive that every single muslim held this belief. Even one would prove he was wrong.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 2, 2011 18:23:52 GMT -5
No, I can assure you, having lived with Islamic peoples for many years, every single one of them does not wish the whole world would convert to Islam. Most of them are perfectly happy to believe what they believe and let others believe as they wish, provided those others don't try to interfere with their own beliefs. There are very, very few who will actively try to convert you if you're not Muslim. Frankly, they don't care.
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 2, 2011 18:24:14 GMT -5
Burns said he believed every Muslim wanted the world to convert to Islam, not that every Muslim endorsed sharia law...I think it is impossible to prove or disprove his statement, because we cannot know what is in each person's heart...
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 2, 2011 18:37:54 GMT -5
Burns said he believed every Muslim wanted the world to convert to Islam, not that every Muslim endorsed sharia law...I think it is impossible to prove or disprove his statement, because we cannot know what is in each person's heart... I think that enough of us have friends & colleges that are muslim to confidently say that not 100% of them want all the world to convert.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2011 18:39:43 GMT -5
But knowing one person who does not follow it does disprove the claim... which is why, all, never, always, none... are not good debate tools...
I wonder what other religions think of Ann Coulter's assertions that we should 'invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity?'
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 2, 2011 19:01:58 GMT -5
I'm sure they don't like it. It's very inflammatory, why would you wonder about that? Or did you just want to re-post Coulter's quote?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 2, 2011 19:07:34 GMT -5
Burns said he believed every Muslim wanted the world to convert to Islam, not that every Muslim endorsed sharia law...I think it is impossible to prove or disprove his statement, because we cannot know what is in each person's heart... I agree with ed!
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Mar 2, 2011 19:08:27 GMT -5
"............I wonder what other religions think of Ann Coulter's assertions that we should 'invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity?..........."
oped, that may well be part of the problem. That is, , , , maybe they think that if they can't have their abusive religious practices, beatings, rapes, no male friends outside of the family, honor killings and such , , , they will just be like all the Christians and Jews in the world, and that would be worse fate than an unmartyred death.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2011 19:10:27 GMT -5
I guess i was suggesting that no religion is likely to want to be identified and defined by their craziest, uh... most zealous participants.... And that some Christians can be just as aggressive in their 'convert the world' tenets, as some Muslims... et cetera...
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 2, 2011 19:11:55 GMT -5
And I take it you assign no value to the frequency of those utterances?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2011 19:12:29 GMT -5
Henry... i'm sorry if this has been covered before... but are you saying that you believe that all muslims practice beatings, rapes, honor killings and abusive religious practices?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2011 19:13:20 GMT -5
Frequency with which they are actually uttered? Or frequency with which they are repeated on Fox news?
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 2, 2011 19:14:25 GMT -5
Is that where you heard Coulter's quote?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2011 19:20:00 GMT -5
No, i actually read it on the front flap of one of her books... she was actually re-iterating it. the statement was: “I am often asked if I still think we should invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity. The answer is: Now more than ever!”
No... i was saying, how many actual incidents of utteraces do you know of? Its like that thing the other day, when they said that person was coming to rally for Sharia law at the White House... and it was viral... everywhere... him and his statements... but when you look at the actual links, you see every source went back to just one source... and a tabloid at that... so that really is just ONE utterance.... and thousands of people repeating what he said... making it seem like its a common sentment, instead of just the loud grumblings of one crazy man...
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Mar 2, 2011 20:20:58 GMT -5
<<< I agree with ed! >>>
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Mar 2, 2011 20:27:51 GMT -5
...and this discussion, however difficult, ought not overlook that when discussing followers of religion, one must consider the "holy scriptures" of that religion and the ultimate goals therein... rather than rely on the orthodoxy demonstrated by the followers themselves... so, if the Koran "preaches" world dominance a la Allah, (and it does,) then that is the "threat" to the non-Muslim...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2011 20:31:20 GMT -5
I guess you're going to have to point out where the Koran teaches 'world dominance a la Allah'... or is that what someone told you it said?
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