State's bill would make following Shariah a felony

[ed1066]

I don't know what it will take to wake some people up to the reality of the Islamic goal to rule the world.

I would say somewhere between 10,000 - 50,000 dead Americans in a mass terror attack, since the 3,500 dead on 9/11 didn't do it for some people...but then again no amount would be enough for some...

[Angel!]

Honestly, I'm taking names on this thread. If we can't all be AMERICANS on this issue, then I'm writing some of you off for good as lost and gone forever.

I assumed I was already on your shit list, but if not, then feel free to add me.

there should be a federal law barring any court in America from considering Sharia, and for that matter any other foreign law in a court room in The United States of America.

I would be ok with this if the law barred courts from considering any religious law or viewpoints, including anything within the christian bible. But, this means next time there is a debate on same-sex marriage, abortion, or teaching evolution in the schools, then the bible can't be considered at all. You can't exclude one religions laws without excluding them all & I see no point in the whole exercise because us laws already trump all religious laws.

[swamp]

I don't know why everyone's panties are in such a twist over the "Islamic goal to rule the world." Frankly, I don't see the imposition of Islamic law on the US as a real threat. Last time I checked, most US voters, even the Muslims, don't want it.

[burnsattornincan]

even the Muslims, don't want it.

That might be the communication problem with this situation. You are dead wrong making that assumption. Of course nothing could ever be proven but I am positive every single Muslim would like to see the entire world convert to Islam. You cannot deny they are doing this slowly but surely. When is the line going to be drawn? If you want minimal bloodshed then it should be drawn now, not later because it will eventually come to violence and you can count on that.

[swamp]

Mar 2, 2011 16:08:54 GMT -5 burnsattornincan said:

even the Muslims, don't want it.

That might be the communication problem with this situation. You are dead wrong making that assumption. Of course nothing could ever be proven but I am positive every single Muslim would like to see the entire world convert to Islam. You cannot deny they are doing this slowly but surely. When is the line going to be drawn? If you want minimal bloodshed then it should be drawn now, not later because it will eventually come to violence and you can count on that.

Every single Muslim, huh? Maybe you should talk to a few first..... I don't doubt that there are a few out there with delusions of world dominance, but I'm pretty sure they aren't the norm..........And I'm basing my opinion from conversations with real, live Muslim people who live in the US and Canada, have jobs, pay taxes, vote, and participate in secular life.

[Loopdilou]

People like Ed, Burn, SF, and Paul would never demean themselves by actually speaking to or listening to any Muslim US Citizens. Don't be crazy, Swamp

[Angel!]

I am positive every single Muslim would like to see the entire world convert to Islam.

It is funny because a lot of muslim believe that all christians want to see the entire world converted to christianity.

Personally, I don't think you can make such a bold statement to encompass an entire group of people because you can't talk about a group that size & assume they all agree on anything.

Muslims are people just like the rest of us. All individuals with their own thoughts & feelings. Failing to realize this & grouping everyone into your picture of a muslim is nothing more than close-minded stereotyping.

[burnsattornincan]

Maybe you should talk to a few first.....

I'm not making this stuff up. I have talked to many of them. Most will not tell you their true intentions. Do you really think they would? You have to trust your instinct on such matters. You can also simply look at the countries I mentioned for further confirmation. Just because they are not all extremists does not mean they won't side with their true compatriots in the end.

[Angel!]

Mar 2, 2011 16:17:23 GMT -5 Loopdilou said:

People like Ed, Burn, SF, and Paul would never demean themselves by actually speaking to or listening to any Muslim US Citizens. Don't be crazy, Swamp

Well, I'm sure they would argue that there would be no point because that person would lie & misrepresent themselves to further their nefarious muslim plot to takeover the world.

ETA - Damn, Burns beat me to it.

[burnsattornincan]

Failing to realize this & grouping everyone into your picture of a muslim is nothing more than close-minded stereotyping.

Is that all you've got? I was prepared for the usual... bigot, racist... you know.

[Loopdilou]

Mar 2, 2011 16:23:54 GMT -5 burnsattornincan said:

Failing to realize this & grouping everyone into your picture of a muslim is nothing more than close-minded stereotyping.

Is that all you've got? I was prepared for the usual... bigot, racist... you know.

Just remember, you said bigot first

[swamp]

Mar 2, 2011 16:22:01 GMT -5 burnsattornincan said:

Maybe you should talk to a few first.....

I'm not making this stuff up. I have talked to many of them. Most will not tell you their true intentions. Do you really think they would? You have to trust your instinct on such matters. You can also simply look at the countries I mentioned for further confirmation. Just because they are not all extremists does not mean they won't side with their true compatriots in the end.

Trust my instinct?! OK. My instinct that every canadian attorney who posts on an american political message board has only treasonous intent and should be locked up for without a trial, because he might do me harm. How's that for instinct?

So the guy who said, "Those 9/11 hijackers aren't muslims, they're thugs" was lying to me? And the muslim parents who send their kids to the Catholic school because "it's a nice little school that teaches good morals" are actually training their kids to hate christians? And the doctors that volunteer their time providing charity care are just passing the time? Good to know.

[Angel!]

Mar 2, 2011 16:23:54 GMT -5 burnsattornincan said:

Failing to realize this & grouping everyone into your picture of a muslim is nothing more than close-minded stereotyping.

Is that all you've got? I was prepared for the usual... bigot, racist... you know.

Call it what you want. You are judging an entire group based on your own misconceptions.

[swamp]

Mar 2, 2011 16:30:08 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Mar 2, 2011 16:23:54 GMT -5 burnsattornincan said:

Failing to realize this & grouping everyone into your picture of a muslim is nothing more than close-minded stereotyping.

Is that all you've got? I was prepared for the usual... bigot, racist... you know.

Call it what you want. You are judging an entire group based on your own misconceptions.

But then he'd have to admit his whole argument is garbage.

[floridayankee]

Mar 2, 2011 16:08:54 GMT -5 burnsattornincan said:

even the Muslims, don't want it.

I am positive every single Muslim would like to see the entire world convert to Islam.

I get these Jehovah's Witnesses that knock on my door at least once a month. We need a law outlawing that IMHO.

[swamp]

Mar 2, 2011 16:31:17 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

Mar 2, 2011 16:08:54 GMT -5 burnsattornincan said:

even the Muslims, don't want it.

I am positive every single Muslim would like to see the entire world convert to Islam.

I get these Jehovah's Witnesses that knock on my door at least once a month. We need a law outlawing that IMHO.

I agree. They should be locked up!

[Loopdilou]

Mar 2, 2011 16:31:17 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

Mar 2, 2011 16:08:54 GMT -5 burnsattornincan said:

even the Muslims, don't want it.

I am positive every single Muslim would like to see the entire world convert to Islam.

I get these Jehovah's Witnesses that knock on my door at least once a month. We need a law outlawing that IMHO.

My husband is a former JW... He could turn on me at any instant and become a door knocker! We should lock him up too, just in case!!!

[ed1066]

So the guy who said, "Those 9/11 hijackers aren't muslims, they're thugs" was lying to me?

He may not be lying, but he wasn't telling the whole truth either. The reality is that those 9/11 hijackers WERE Muslims, and they were also thugs. Can't they be both? Or do you believe no Muslim can also be a thug? Do you also believe only white people can be racists?

[burnsattornincan]

Alright ladies. I see you're going down the same old beaten path. How about you address what is going on in Europe, England and France specifically. Does any of that concern you and do you think the US is heading toward a similar situation?

[swamp]

Mar 2, 2011 16:40:24 GMT -5 @ed1066 said:

So the guy who said, "Those 9/11 hijackers aren't muslims, they're thugs" was lying to me?

He may not be lying, but he wasn't telling the whole truth either. The reality is that those 9/11 hijackers WERE Muslims, and they were also thugs. Can't they be both? Or do you believe no Muslim can also be a thug? Do you also believe only white people can be racists?

OK, the rest of the quote was that real Muslims are peaceful. Islam is a peaceful religion, not violent. We then went on to discuss at length how their reading of the Koran is a perversion.

And anyone can be a racist, or sexist, or religionist, or just a general asshole.

[Loopdilou]

I think Europe is reacting to Muslims the same way that the US reacts to Mexicans. They're the largest immigrant group and therefore subject to a great deal of fear and discrimination. This type of xenophobia is generally due to economics - they compete for low wage jobs and so the low wage (usually less educated and larger portion) populace transfers their anger over wage competition into a hatred of an ethnicity and a dominant narrative of "They're trying to take over".

[swamp]

Mar 2, 2011 16:41:01 GMT -5 burnsattornincan said:

Alright ladies. I see you're going down the same old beaten path. How about you address what is going on in Europe, England and France specifically. Does any of that concern you and do you think the US is heading toward a similar situation?

Does it concern me? No, not really. Different cultures, different populations, different history, different governments. However, the fact that the French government is marginalizing the Muslims isn't helping the unemployed Muslim kids with too much time on their hands and delusions of grandeur.

[Loopdilou]

Mar 2, 2011 16:46:33 GMT -5 swamp said:

Mar 2, 2011 16:41:01 GMT -5 burnsattornincan said:

Alright ladies. I see you're going down the same old beaten path. How about you address what is going on in Europe, England and France specifically. Does any of that concern you and do you think the US is heading toward a similar situation?

Does it concern me? No, not really. Different cultures, different populations, different history, different governments. However, the fact that the French government is marginalizing the Muslims isn't helping the unemployed Muslim kids with too much time on their hands and delusions of grandeur.

Exactly. The economic fears turn into government efforts to marginalize/criminalize immigrant groups. State sponsored bigotry.

[ed1066]

OK, the rest of the quote was that real Muslims are peaceful. Islam is a peaceful religion, not violent.

Not sure what to say to that. I'm sure there are plenty of peaceful Muslims, but the version of Islam that is being practiced by a large percentage of the world (as well as the Islamic theocracies that govern them) is not peaceful, especially towards women, gays, other religions and children. Your information may vary, but the widespread human rights abuses in Muslim countries tell a different story...

[swamp]

There are widespread human rights abuses in China, North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, and Russia too, and last time I checked, they weren't Muslim nations

And I disagree with you that a large percentage of practicing Muslims are violent. The news focuses on the violent ones. The peaceful ones are boring. Indonesia is a predominantly Muslim nation, and you don't see clips of riots in the street there.

[Angel!]

State sponsored bigotry.

Well put. I hate how people like to talk about how racism is dead. Racism is alive & well, just the groups that it is acceptable to persecute have changed.

[ed1066]

Indonesia is a predominantly Muslim nation, and you don't see clips of riots in the street there.

Maybe not this week, but Indonesia has a HUGE violence problem, mostly directed against Christians:

The main target of the attack was apparently a Pentecostal church in Java, but the radicals went on to attack Catholic churches in addition to an orphanage and health center run by the Sisters of Providence. The Catholic parish of St Peter and Paul in Temanggung was where the local pastor, a Holy Family missionary, was reportedly beaten.

That, too, is worrying, as it confirms that incensed radicals often lump all Christians together whenever they perceive a provocation or insult.

Today's violence in Indonesia forms part of what many experts regard as a rising tide of violence directed at Christian minorities in various parts of the world. According to the German-based relief agency "Aid to the Church in Need," 75 percent of all acts of religious intolerance are today directed against Christians.

ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/anti-christian-violence-indonesia-especially-alarming

Note that last statistic...

[Loopdilou]

Well, you can't really call it racism as it isn't necessarily about race. (Race being a misnomer anyway). Xenophobia is really a better term as it gets closer to the root... Maybe Ethnocentrism. That's why I usually use bigot.

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

<<< I think Europe is reacting to Muslims the same way that the US reacts to Mexicans. They're the largest immigrant group and therefore subject to a great deal of fear and discrimination. This type of xenophobia is generally due to economics - they compete for low wage jobs and so the low wage (usually less educated and larger portion) populace transfers their anger over wage competition into a hatred of an ethnicity and a dominant narrative of "They're trying to take over". >>>

...I think you're wrong on this one...

<<< Xenophobia is really a better term as it gets closer to the root... >>>

...fine... but Xenophobia is not a categorically "wrong" feeling...

[Angel!]

Fair enough, it isn't really racism. But, I think my overall point still stands.