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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 20:44:27 GMT -5
I'm in now. The CDC talks like because we can't eliminate the threat we can't make any effort to minimize it. It has a 70% mortality rate. It's not something I want to watch my family, friends, neighbors die of.
"Ms Greening said the stark prediction by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that Ebola cases could reach 1.4 million by January highlighted the need for rapid action.
The number of people infected with Ebola is doubling every 20 to 30 days, and aid agencies said that the situation on the ground was dire.
David MacDonald, Oxfam’s regional director for West Africa, said: “Ebola is consuming whole communities. We are seeing them absolutely torn apart as a result of the disease. Many areas have been forced into quarantine – the streets are completely deserted. The need to break the spread of Ebola is absolutely key.
www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/ebola-virus-pandemic-should-be-treated-the-same-way-as-threat-posed-by-nuclear-weapons-security-officials-say-9771219.html
Maybe you need to read something like this account from the NYtimes: www.nytimes.com/2014/10/02/world/africa/ebola-spreading-in-west-africa.html?_r=0
They aren't living in the same world we are - I hazard a guess that the people in the poorest American towns/cities or rural areas are many steps ahead of the people effected by ebola.
I'm NOT saying we won't have cases of ebola here (and very probably some deaths) but I highly doubt your friends and neighbors will die from it - much less come in contact with it... unless perhaps you live in an area with a lot of enclaves of people from other countries AND you personally know a lot of people who work in healthcare. Even then I doubt your friends and neighbors will become sick much less die from ebola.
So far I'm not impressed with the way the single confirmed case brought unwillingly to the US was handled.
There is a way to minimize new cases here. You don't think the risk is high enough to take those actions, I think it's high enough. Hoping your right.
How does the disease progress?
Symptoms usually begin about eight to 10 days after exposure to the virus, but can appear as late as 21 days after exposure, according to the C.D.C. At first, it seems much like the flu: a headache, fever and aches and pains. Sometimes there is also a rash. Diarrhea and vomiting follow.
Then, in about half of the cases, Ebola takes a severe turn, causing victims to hemorrhage. They may vomit blood or pass it in urine, or bleed under the skin or from their eyes or mouths. But bleeding is not usually what kills patients. Rather, blood vessels deep in the body begin leaking fluid, causing blood pressure to plummet so low that the heart, kidneys, liver and other organs begin to fail.
My opinion hasn't changed after reading your link . No thanks . Keep out .
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Oct 3, 2014 21:14:37 GMT -5
not for nothing, but a lot of the ways you prevent the spread of Ebola are similar to the ways you prevent the spread of any communicable disease. but since people can't learn to wash their hands frequently and as needed, to sneeze into their elbow rather than into the palm they are about to shake at a conference - or worse, just blasting into the air....among myriad other ways to spread communicable diseases......then I guess y'all might be right and we all should just hunker down into our bomb shelters to make sure we survive.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 3, 2014 21:18:23 GMT -5
"Rather, blood vessels deep in the body begin leaking fluid, causing blood pressure to plummet so low that the heart, kidneys, liver and other organs begin to fail."
That would be the result of untreated DIC (Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation). DIC can be treated and IS treated in this country. Hospitals in places like Liberia aren't equipped to deal with DIC. We, here, are. In this country, it's doubtful anyone will reach this point in the disease process because of our technologically advanced medical treatment. To be honest, DIC is seen more often in pregnancy and shortly after birth than anyone would like. We are aware of it, we know it's a risk with Ebola, and we're aware to look for it and treat as required.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 21:48:39 GMT -5
not for nothing, but a lot of the ways you prevent the spread of Ebola are similar to the ways you prevent the spread of any communicable disease. but since people can't learn to wash their hands frequently and as needed, to sneeze into their elbow rather than into the palm they are about to shake at a conference - or worse, just blasting into the air....among myriad other ways to spread communicable diseases......then I guess y'all might be right and we all should just hunker down into our bomb shelters to make sure we survive. How about just not letting people from infected countries in until the disease has been controlled. It has died out before. What is so horrible about waiting for that to happen before allowing people from infected countries here? We are pretty mobile here. We are not contained to a town or a village as many of the communities that have been devastated by this are. So spreading it around a little will make it easier to control you think? Bomb shelters- Straw man
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Oct 3, 2014 22:09:44 GMT -5
not for nothing, but a lot of the ways you prevent the spread of Ebola are similar to the ways you prevent the spread of any communicable disease. but since people can't learn to wash their hands frequently and as needed, to sneeze into their elbow rather than into the palm they are about to shake at a conference - or worse, just blasting into the air....among myriad other ways to spread communicable diseases......then I guess y'all might be right and we all should just hunker down into our bomb shelters to make sure we survive. How about just not letting people from infected countries in until the disease has been controlled. It has died out before. What is so horrible about waiting for that to happen before allowing people from infected countries here? We are pretty mobile here. We are not contained to a town or a village as many of the communities that have been devastated by this are. So spreading it around a little will make it easier to control you think? Bomb shelters- Straw man
the country isn't infected, individual patients are. yes, we are more mobile.....but we are also better equipped to contain a virus outbreak - both via medical expertise and facilities as well as from the education we all have received in our lifetimes, that some of the affected countries don't have. keep them all out! = the sky is falling! sent from my electronic distraction
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 22:32:17 GMT -5
How about just not letting people from infected countries in until the disease has been controlled. It has died out before. What is so horrible about waiting for that to happen before allowing people from infected countries here? We are pretty mobile here. We are not contained to a town or a village as many of the communities that have been devastated by this are. So spreading it around a little will make it easier to control you think? Bomb shelters- Straw man
the country isn't infected, individual patients are. yes, we are more mobile.....but we are also better equipped to contain a virus outbreak - both via medical expertise and facilities as well as from the education we all have received in our lifetimes, that some of the affected countries don't have. keep them all out! = the sky is falling! sent from my electronic distraction What would be the worse thing that could happen if we kept them out until the disease had become more manageable? What awful consequences would that/could that action have? Convince me how bad they would/could be as opposed to an outbreak of a highly fatal infectious disease, that has no cure, that is at this point is still fairly contained here in the US.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 3, 2014 22:42:30 GMT -5
the country isn't infected, individual patients are. yes, we are more mobile.....but we are also better equipped to contain a virus outbreak - both via medical expertise and facilities as well as from the education we all have received in our lifetimes, that some of the affected countries don't have. keep them all out! = the sky is falling! sent from my electronic distraction What would be the worse thing that could happen if we kept them out until the disease had become more manageable?
They'd die?
What awful consequences would that/could that action have?
Their families would grieve their unnecessary loss?
Convince me how bad they would/could be as opposed to an outbreak of a highly fatal infectious disease, that has no cure, that is at this point is still fairly contained here in the US.
I'm not going to try to convince you of anything; however, I will say the disease at this point is totally (not fairly) contained here in the US.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 22:50:50 GMT -5
What would be the worse thing that could happen if we kept them out until the disease had become more manageable?
They'd die?
What awful consequences would that/could that action have?
Their families would grieve their unnecessary loss?
Convince me how bad they would/could be as opposed to an outbreak of a highly fatal infectious disease, that has no cure, that is at this point is still fairly contained here in the US.
I'm not going to try to convince you of anything; however, I will say the disease at this point is totally (not fairly) contained here in the US. "I'm not going to try to convince you of anything; however, I will say the disease at this point is totally (not fairly) contained here in the US."
You have no way of knowing that.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 3, 2014 23:19:47 GMT -5
"I'm not going to try to convince you of anything; however, I will say the disease at this point is totally (not fairly) contained here in the US."
You have no way of knowing that.
Ah, but I do. Until such time as there is an actual case of Ebola diagnosed in this country, the victim of which has not been out of this country and in an area where Ebola is rampant, it is contained. Hell, it's even contained if the individual diagnosed in the scenario I mention is in hospital isolation when the diagnosis is made. You may define "contained" in another way if you wish, however. Be it far from me to get in the way of drama.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 23:36:23 GMT -5
I consider "contained" not being able to walk around with the Ebola virus potentially exposing it to the general public . If that make me dramatic I'm good with that label.
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steff
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Post by steff on Oct 3, 2014 23:43:29 GMT -5
This thread reminds me of an old time former poster who was desperately searching for surgical masks during the bird flu "epidemic". memories
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Jaguar
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Post by Jaguar on Oct 3, 2014 23:56:13 GMT -5
I have masks, left over from the SARS epidemic that we had here in 2003.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 4, 2014 8:45:14 GMT -5
We have masks here now. One of DFs heart guys said washing hands was more effective. The other said to do both. Both said to avoid crowds and children or people who have children. For awhile, not forever.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 4, 2014 9:30:22 GMT -5
We have masks here now. One of DFs heart guys said washing hands was more effective. The other said to do both. Both said to avoid crowds and children or people who have children. For awhile, not forever. Considering how recently your DF had major surgery, Zib, if he's going to be in a crowded place, a mask can't hurt because we're coming up on flu season. The mask will help against that possibility. Frequent hand-washing is just good practice anyway.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 4, 2014 9:42:16 GMT -5
I wish he'd be more proactive with wearing one. He is careful when he goes to dr office to wait in hall not in waiting room but people go by in the hall, too. Last night I drove him to Temple and he wouldn't wear one. It's a holiday and the place was packed and people were hacking and coughing. I reminded twice and then I let it go. If he gets sick, he should be past the dangerous point post transplant and then if he gets put in hospital again so they monitor him, maybe he will be more careful. He's a grown adult and should be more careful but I refuse to be mom-nag.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 4, 2014 15:48:03 GMT -5
We're currently running a 60% survival rate among US cases. Three have recovered, two are in hospital. A sixth is in the process of being transported here. I wouldn't be at all surprised if see US mortality rates under 20% as long as we detect it early and no pregnant women are infected. A lot of the folks that you are considering banning are US citizens. Dual US/Liberian citizenship is extremely common. mortality rate in Nigeria is 40%. i mistakenly said it was 60%, earlier- they have a 60% SURVIVOR rate.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 4, 2014 15:49:20 GMT -5
Maybe you need to read something like this account from the NYtimes: www.nytimes.com/2014/10/02/world/africa/ebola-spreading-in-west-africa.html?_r=0
They aren't living in the same world we are - I hazard a guess that the people in the poorest American towns/cities or rural areas are many steps ahead of the people effected by ebola.
I'm NOT saying we won't have cases of ebola here (and very probably some deaths) but I highly doubt your friends and neighbors will die from it - much less come in contact with it... unless perhaps you live in an area with a lot of enclaves of people from other countries AND you personally know a lot of people who work in healthcare. Even then I doubt your friends and neighbors will become sick much less die from ebola.
So far I'm not impressed with the way the single confirmed case brought unwillingly to the US was handled.
There is a way to minimize new cases here. You don't think the risk is high enough to take those actions, I think it's high enough. Hoping your right.
How does the disease progress?
Symptoms usually begin about eight to 10 days after exposure to the virus, but can appear as late as 21 days after exposure, according to the C.D.C. At first, it seems much like the flu: a headache, fever and aches and pains. Sometimes there is also a rash. Diarrhea and vomiting follow.
Then, in about half of the cases, Ebola takes a severe turn, causing victims to hemorrhage. They may vomit blood or pass it in urine, or bleed under the skin or from their eyes or mouths. But bleeding is not usually what kills patients. Rather, blood vessels deep in the body begin leaking fluid, causing blood pressure to plummet so low that the heart, kidneys, liver and other organs begin to fail.
My opinion hasn't changed after reading your link . No thanks . Keep out .
we're all unimpressed. but i STRONGLY believe that you can't extrapolate based on that one case. it was, after all, Texas.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 4, 2014 15:51:46 GMT -5
not for nothing, but a lot of the ways you prevent the spread of Ebola are similar to the ways you prevent the spread of any communicable disease. but since people can't learn to wash their hands frequently and as needed, to sneeze into their elbow rather than into the palm they are about to shake at a conference - or worse, just blasting into the air....among myriad other ways to spread communicable diseases......then I guess y'all might be right and we all should just hunker down into our bomb shelters to make sure we survive. How about just not letting people from infected countries in until the disease has been controlled. It has died out before. What is so horrible about waiting for that to happen before allowing people from infected countries here? We are pretty mobile here. We are not contained to a town or a village as many of the communities that have been devastated by this are. So spreading it around a little will make it easier to control you think? Bomb shelters- Straw man
most of us think that "not letting people from infected countries in" is far easier said than done. but just assuming that your idea COULD be done for a second- are you really suggesting that we ban 200M people from traveling?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2014 17:54:27 GMT -5
How about just not letting people from infected countries in until the disease has been controlled. It has died out before. What is so horrible about waiting for that to happen before allowing people from infected countries here? We are pretty mobile here. We are not contained to a town or a village as many of the communities that have been devastated by this are. So spreading it around a little will make it easier to control you think? Bomb shelters- Straw man
most of us think that "not letting people from infected countries in" is far easier said than done. but just assuming that your idea COULD be done for a second- are you really suggesting that we ban 200M people from traveling? Maybe not yet but I think anyone traveling from a highly infected area should be at the very least quarantined for the incubation period. I'm not talking eliminating risk but minimizing it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2014 17:56:52 GMT -5
Yes!! Those dirty commies should be staying in country and spending their tourism dollars on US soil. I'll make an exception for US business travelers that are trying to bring capitalism to dirty foreign commies. 'Merica, love it or get the fuck out, but in this case we won't let you come back! I really don't care what their political views are just that they can't spread the Ebola virus here.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Oct 4, 2014 19:15:24 GMT -5
most of us think that "not letting people from infected countries in" is far easier said than done. but just assuming that your idea COULD be done for a second- are you really suggesting that we ban 200M people from traveling? Maybe not yet but I think anyone traveling from a highly infected area should be at the very least quarantined for the incubation period. I'm not talking eliminating risk but minimizing it. The incubation period can be 3 weeks. I can't imagine the cost to quarantine people for that timeframe and the impact on our economy in both cost and lost work, lost tourism, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2014 19:22:26 GMT -5
Yes. Much more prudent I suppose to let people in that may not even know they are infected and then locate all the people they have had contact with.
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Post by Jaguar on Oct 4, 2014 21:30:47 GMT -5
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 4, 2014 21:52:23 GMT -5
i have something more important to consider. the average gestation for this disease is 8 days. it has been 8 days since this guy came down with symptoms. any new cases?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 4, 2014 21:52:45 GMT -5
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 4, 2014 22:28:58 GMT -5
i have something more important to consider. the average gestation for this disease is 8 days. it has been 8 days since this guy came down with symptoms. any new cases? From what's been released so far, none of the contacts have yet exhibited symptoms. They've got a while to go, though, before they're in the clear. The fact that Mr. Duncan is now considered critical is no surprise. This stuff is nasty. Fortunately, it's not easy to catch!
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Post by Tiny on Oct 5, 2014 11:37:20 GMT -5
The incubation period can be 3 weeks. I can't imagine the cost to quarantine people for that timeframe and the impact on our economy in both cost and lost work, lost tourism, etc. I don't think the disease warrants mandatory travel bans, but if we went that route I don't think it would have much impact on US tourism. How many Liberians in the hard hit areas vacation in the US every year? I don't imagine it's a big number. US hotels, restaurants, and resorts probably wouldn't even notice a ban on travel from Liberia. Just a generic comment - because this post talks about travel bans for Liberia (and probably the other two places I can't spell and so have given up on putting in here). We're all America 'centric' people from West Africa travel to a lot of other places - like Europe, the Middle East, India.... who knows how well those countries/areas can contain the disease.
For America to be 'safe' we obviously need to ban all incoming flights from any other country and send hundreds of thousands of 'guards' - to our borders with Canada and Mexico and along our coasts (who knows who might get on a boat and sail to our ports/marinas)!
As a possible side effect of doing this - we may actually make some head way in the 'war against drugs' (we'd probably mess with the income of the cartels in South America and problem put a small dent in the opium trade in the Middle East and a small dent in the China drug trade as well..), restore manufacturing to US shores (no container ships coming from China or from any of our Allies with whom we have trade agreements - I'm sure they will understand our position.), and may solve the obesity problem cause there will be less food available all around... the fast food place won't be able to keep up with demand (no container ships from China or other places - so fewer frozen burgers/chicken bits, etc available) - groceries will still have food but there won't be as many choices...
Hmmm, maybe a total isolation would be a good (if painful) thing ... to make America powerful again!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 12:16:37 GMT -5
Dr. C.J. Peters, who battled a 1989 outbreak of the virus among research monkeys housed in Virginia and who later led the CDC's most far-reaching study of Ebola's transmissibility in humans, said he would not rule out the possibility that it spreads through the air in tight quarters.
"We just don't have the data to exclude it," said Peters, who continues to research viral diseases at the University of Texas in Galveston CDC officials also say that asymptomatic patients cannot spread Ebola. This assumption is crucial for assessing how many people are at risk of getting the disease. Yet diagnosing a symptom can depend on subjective understandings of what constitutes a symptom, and some may not be easily recognizable. Is a person mildly fatigued because of short sleep the night before a flight — or because of the early onset of disease?
Moreover, said some public health specialists, there is no proof that a person infected — but who lacks symptoms — could not spread the virus to others.
"It's really unclear," said Michael Osterholm, a public health scientist at the University of Minnesota who recently served on the U.S. government's National Science Advisory Board for Biosecurity. "None of us know." www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ebola-questions-20141007-story.html#page=1
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 8, 2014 7:34:30 GMT -5
Anyone watching the Spanish nurse case? First case in the West of a non-traveling patient. I am, and have been. If the information in THIS ARTICLE is anywhere close to true, I'd say isolation protocols weren't anywhere close to what they should have been. Spain best wake up and smell the roses. This stuff is going to travel and, if hospitals and caregivers don't follow strict protocols, it's going to spread. I'm not worried about getting it and I'm positive it's not going to go pandemic on us in this country, or in Canada. Most of Europe will do fine. There are places, though, that won't. They won't do any better with this than they do with other infectious diseases. They need to get their acts together, use the proper equipment, train their staffs, and stop spitting into the wind!
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 8, 2014 8:37:12 GMT -5
Anyone watching the Spanish nurse case? First case in the West of a non-traveling patient. According to the news this morning, they've circled in on the likelihood that she was exposed when her glove touched her face after working with the Ebola patient (involving direct sanitary assistance to the patient). washingtonexaminer.com/doc-spanish-woman-touched-face-with-ebola-glove/article/feed/2171306In Madrid, Dr. German Ramirez of the Carlos III hospital said Romero remembers she once touched her face with the gloves after leaving the quarantine room where an Ebola victim was being treated. Health officials say Romero twice entered the room of Spanish missionary Manuel Garcia Viejo, who died of Ebola on Sept. 25 — once to change his diaper and again after he died to retrieve unspecified items. Ramirez said Romero believes she touched her face with the glove after her first entry.
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