haapai
Junior Associate
Character
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 20:40:06 GMT -5
Posts: 5,898
|
Post by haapai on Oct 15, 2014 11:20:24 GMT -5
I'd like to see the CDC isolating the nurses at a different location than this hospital that's had such problems with protocols so far. I know the CDC is overseeing things now, and that should help, but this place sounds like it needs to focus on training and the CDC may want to use better-prepared facilities at this point. I find it unnerving that they are being treated by the same entity that may have been responsible for their exposure. The speed with which cases are being isolated makes me wonder if temperature checks are occurring at the hospital itself. If so, I can only hope that people who are getting their temperature checked are carrying Kindles and cell phone chargers. If I had to go through this myself, well, I'd probably be quite grateful that I still use a dumb phone. It's small and I really don't like being shushed.
|
|
Rocky Mtn Saver
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 9:40:57 GMT -5
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 15, 2014 11:21:12 GMT -5
From the CDC: "I wish we had a put a team like this on the ground the day the first patient was diagnosed,” Frieden said. I wonder how many more " I wish we would have"s are still to come. Hopefully few, but yeah the CDC blew it on not being aggressive enough with immediate oversight in this case. The articles about Nigeria's successful eradication of their similar outbreak all highlight the huge impact that having an immediate - almost overwhelming - response with many 'boots on the ground' in Lagos.
|
|
Angel!
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:44:08 GMT -5
Posts: 10,722
|
Post by Angel! on Oct 15, 2014 11:25:07 GMT -5
I am mostly curious what kind of survival rate we will see on patients that are in top-notch care from the day they first start showing symptoms. That has to have a huge impact on survival. Duncan was probably already in pretty bad shape by the time he really was getting good care.
|
|
haapai
Junior Associate
Character
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 20:40:06 GMT -5
Posts: 5,898
|
Post by haapai on Oct 15, 2014 11:27:27 GMT -5
Nigeria also got damn lucky that the patient went to a private clinic/hospital with an outstanding physician in charge. She pretty much locked down the clinic and ran it as an Ebola ward for six days until the government showed up with meaningful help.
|
|
Rocky Mtn Saver
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 9:40:57 GMT -5
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 15, 2014 11:29:10 GMT -5
I am mostly curious what kind of survival rate we will see on patients that are in top-notch care from the day they first start showing symptoms. That has to have a huge impact on survival. Duncan was probably already in pretty bad shape by the time he really was getting good care. Given the few patients we've seen in the US and Europe, it does seem to help best when people get great supportive care from the earliest point possible. Unfortunately, Mr. Duncan was very, very sick before he even began to receive supportive care (and only one of the experimental treatments was an option for his case). These current patients are young and healthy and getting the best treatment available as early as possible. Hopefully they'll come through with flying colors!
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,613
|
Post by Tennesseer on Oct 15, 2014 11:29:29 GMT -5
I think we need to put Texas in isolation. starting with Rick Perry. Feel free to add the Texas AG to the list. He has been coming out with some pretty bizarre statements as of late on a few issues (same-sex marriage must be banned in order to ensure the survival of humanity (via baby-making).
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 18, 2024 10:00:08 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2014 11:31:10 GMT -5
From what I read, the hospital didn't even have the proper gear on hand for the nurses caring for Mr. Duncan. This hospital has handled this case in a sloppy manner since Mr. Duncan first arrived at the ER. I hope whoever dropped the ball on the 1st ER visit is held accountable. And I hope everyone that dropped the ball in this whole situation is held accountable. The nurses, I feel bad for them if they did not have the equipment available to protect themselves. They are paying the price for someone else's incompetence.
I think in America we do have the ability to rise to the occasion and handle any challenge. Eventually. Often after we learn from some initial mistakes.
|
|
Rocky Mtn Saver
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 9:40:57 GMT -5
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 15, 2014 11:35:55 GMT -5
From what I read, the hospital didn't even have the proper gear on hand for the nurses caring for Mr. Duncan. This hospital has handled this case in a sloppy manner since Mr. Duncan first arrived at the ER. I hope whoever dropped the ball on the 1st ER visit is held accountable. And I hope everyone that dropped the ball in this whole situation is held accountable. The nurses, I feel bad for them if they did not have the equipment available to protect themselves. They are paying the price for someone else's incompetence. I think in America we do have the ability to rise to the occasion and handle any challenge. Eventually. Often after we learn from some initial mistakes. Yes, while I'm not worried about this isolated outbreak becoming something the general public should worry about, I feel terrible for the health care workers who are being unnecessarily exposed and are rightly worried by a lack of training and preparation on the part of the hospitals.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 11:37:00 GMT -5
possibly more. probably none. Hopefully! The second nurse lived alone, although I've heard reports that they're monitoring her boyfriend. Unfortunately, she also flew domestically the day before she developed symptoms. Although it's unlikely this will be a further problem, the CDC is contacting the 132 people on that plane today. So, the 21 day clock will begin again today. But doesn't the 21-day clock for the original patient's family/friends being monitored end in a few days? He was isolated as of the 26th, I think? ETA: The new clock for general exposure (not health care workers) would start on 10/14, as that was when she was isolated, I believe. i think she was isolated on the 8th or the 10th, but i might be mistaken. not that it matters, since we have apparently had another infection.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 11:39:45 GMT -5
I understand that, but how long was he showing symptoms before they admitted him? I thought it was several days based on the two separate hospital visits. By the time he was hospitalized I heard he was having significant diarrhea. So I thought there was a time period of at least several days where the family members were definitely at risk. Was I wrong? Don't know how long he might have had a fever, but until he started actually shedding body fluids that someone else might have come in contact with, there wasn't that much danger. It's passed through direct contact with infected body fluids. The CDC is approaching it pretty darned proactively and getting more so. They're even checking on people who flew on the plane with the latest victim who had no symptoms when she flew. That's over-kill, but I sure won't fault it. they also set up a "rapid response unit" given the abject failure of Texas to deal with this.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 11:40:34 GMT -5
From the CDC: "I wish we had a put a team like this on the ground the day the first patient was diagnosed,” Frieden said. I wonder how many more " I wish we would have"s are still to come. hopefully, very few.
|
|
Rocky Mtn Saver
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 9:40:57 GMT -5
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 15, 2014 11:41:15 GMT -5
Hopefully! The second nurse lived alone, although I've heard reports that they're monitoring her boyfriend. Unfortunately, she also flew domestically the day before she developed symptoms. Although it's unlikely this will be a further problem, the CDC is contacting the 132 people on that plane today. So, the 21 day clock will begin again today. But doesn't the 21-day clock for the original patient's family/friends being monitored end in a few days? He was isolated as of the 26th, I think? ETA: The new clock for general exposure (not health care workers) would start on 10/14, as that was when she was isolated, I believe. i think she was isolated on the 8th or the 10th, but i might be mistaken. not that it matters, since we have apparently had another infection. Wikipedia says the first nurse was isolated on the 10th and the second on the 14th.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 11:43:07 GMT -5
From the CDC: "I wish we had a put a team like this on the ground the day the first patient was diagnosed,” Frieden said. I wonder how many more " I wish we would have"s are still to come. Hopefully few, but yeah the CDC blew it on not being aggressive enough with immediate oversight in this case. The articles about Nigeria's successful eradication of their similar outbreak all highlight the huge impact that having an immediate - almost overwhelming - response with many 'boots on the ground' in Lagos. not to act as an apologist for Texas, but if there were an outbreak in Mexico, i bet Texas would have had an almost military response.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 11:43:39 GMT -5
i think she was isolated on the 8th or the 10th, but i might be mistaken. not that it matters, since we have apparently had another infection. Wikipedia says the first nurse was isolated on the 10th and the second on the 14th. i was referring to the first nurse. thanks. that clears everything up.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 11:44:49 GMT -5
I am mostly curious what kind of survival rate we will see on patients that are in top-notch care from the day they first start showing symptoms. That has to have a huge impact on survival. Duncan was probably already in pretty bad shape by the time he really was getting good care. the scorecard so far with Ebola patients treated in the US is about 85% survival.
|
|
Rocky Mtn Saver
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 9:40:57 GMT -5
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 15, 2014 11:48:40 GMT -5
I am mostly curious what kind of survival rate we will see on patients that are in top-notch care from the day they first start showing symptoms. That has to have a huge impact on survival. Duncan was probably already in pretty bad shape by the time he really was getting good care. the scorecard so far with Ebola patients treated in the US is about 85% survival. And hopefully we can improve on that number with these two new cases!
|
|
Angel!
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:44:08 GMT -5
Posts: 10,722
|
Post by Angel! on Oct 15, 2014 11:51:21 GMT -5
I am mostly curious what kind of survival rate we will see on patients that are in top-notch care from the day they first start showing symptoms. That has to have a huge impact on survival. Duncan was probably already in pretty bad shape by the time he really was getting good care. the scorecard so far with Ebola patients treated in the US is about 85% survival. The only death so far is Duncan, correct? In the right care, this thing may not prove to be very deadly at all.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 11:57:12 GMT -5
the scorecard so far with Ebola patients treated in the US is about 85% survival. The only death so far is Duncan, correct? correctIn the right care, this thing may not prove to be very deadly at all. the number one cause of death is dehydration, i believe. if you treat this early, and keep the patient hydrated, the odds of beating it are "good".
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Oct 15, 2014 11:57:57 GMT -5
Don't know how long he might have had a fever, but until he started actually shedding body fluids that someone else might have come in contact with, there wasn't that much danger. It's passed through direct contact with infected body fluids. The CDC is approaching it pretty darned proactively and getting more so. They're even checking on people who flew on the plane with the latest victim who had no symptoms when she flew. That's over-kill, but I sure won't fault it. they also set up a "rapid response unit" given the abject failure of Texas to deal with this. I'd seen that, dj. Glad to hear it and am a bit surprised they didn't have an RRU already. That's one of the things hospitals need to have in place. We had one before I left.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 12:00:00 GMT -5
they also set up a "rapid response unit" given the abject failure of Texas to deal with this. I'd seen that, dj. Glad to hear it and am a bit surprised they didn't have an RRU already. That's one of the things hospitals need to have in place. We had one before I left. candidly, i was a little surprised, too. but then again, our government has cut funding to the CDC for the last six years straight, so that doesn't leave a lot of room in the budget for such luxuries.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 12:00:53 GMT -5
Feel free to add the Texas AG to the list. He has been coming out with some pretty bizarre statements as of late on a few issues (same-sex marriage must be banned in order to ensure the survival of humanity (via baby-making). I'd like to add the Right Honorable Governor of Maine Paul LePage to that list as well.
We had a patient held in isolation in hospital in Portland this past week, because of the possibility of Ebola. Upon his release the good Governor's main concern was not his or public health. He said the number one priority was to make sure his (immigration) papers were in order. What an ass. In one sentence he: 1. Violated the patients right to privacy. 2. Politicized a health issue. (Illegal immigration is one of his "issues". Because, ya know, we have so many Mexicans coming across the border here..... 3. Publicized the idea that maybe we check people's papers when they go to get (necessary) medical care. Talk about creating a health risk.
Three strikes an yer out. Way to go big guy.
that whackadoodle is up for election again this year, isn't he?
|
|
Rocky Mtn Saver
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 9:40:57 GMT -5
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 15, 2014 12:01:00 GMT -5
I'd seen that, dj. Glad to hear it and am a bit surprised they didn't have an RRU already. That's one of the things hospitals need to have in place. We had one before I left. candidly, i was a little surprised, too. but then again, our government has cut funding to the CDC for the last six years straight, so that doesn't leave a lot of room in the budget for such luxuries. Maybe we can borrow Nigeria's?
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Oct 15, 2014 12:02:41 GMT -5
the scorecard so far with Ebola patients treated in the US is about 85% survival. And hopefully we can improve on that number with these two new cases! I really think we will since we're catching them so early. Getting a handle on hydration and electrolyte balance early and early detection of secondary infections should make a real difference.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 12:03:05 GMT -5
candidly, i was a little surprised, too. but then again, our government has cut funding to the CDC for the last six years straight, so that doesn't leave a lot of room in the budget for such luxuries. Maybe we can borrow Nigeria's? it is interesting to watch a country that has it's priorities straight dealing with this problem -vs- one that does not. our Nordquistian quest to drown the government in the bath has finally bourne it's first fruit. congratulations, Tea Party!
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,513
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Oct 15, 2014 12:04:35 GMT -5
... yeah the CDC blew it on not being aggressive enough with immediate oversight in this case. ... Texas Health is one of the nation's largest faith-based, nonprofit health care delivery systems. Faith based. Private. Hmmmm.
|
|
busymom
Distinguished Associate
Why is the rum always gone? Oh...that's why.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 21:09:36 GMT -5
Posts: 28,458
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"https://cdn.nickpic.host/images/IPauJ5.jpg","color":""}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0D317F
Mini-Profile Text Color: 0D317F
|
Post by busymom on Oct 15, 2014 12:08:18 GMT -5
Ok, the noon news here is saying the nurses caring for our first fatality had exposed necks with their "protective suits", their gloves weren't being taped to their gowns, AND instead of walking samples to the lab, they were using that vacuum system (whatever it's called) to zip samples through the hospital system.
That's reassuring!!
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 12:10:36 GMT -5
Ok, the noon news here is saying the nurses caring for our first fatality had exposed necks with their "protective suits", their gloves weren't being taped to their gowns, AND instead of walking samples to the lab, they were using that vacuum system (whatever it's called) to zip samples through the hospital system.
That's reassuring!! sounds like half a dozen protocol violations, there. edit: probably saved them a few bucks. good for stockholders.
|
|
b2r
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 10:35:25 GMT -5
Posts: 7,257
|
Post by b2r on Oct 15, 2014 12:45:43 GMT -5
Ok, the noon news here is saying the nurses caring for our first fatality had exposed necks with their "protective suits", their gloves weren't being taped to their gowns, AND instead of walking samples to the lab, they were using that vacuum system (whatever it's called) to zip samples through the hospital system.
That's reassuring!! CDC says more protection is not necessarily better.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 15, 2014 13:07:38 GMT -5
Ok, the noon news here is saying the nurses caring for our first fatality had exposed necks with their "protective suits", their gloves weren't being taped to their gowns, AND instead of walking samples to the lab, they were using that vacuum system (whatever it's called) to zip samples through the hospital system.
That's reassuring!! CDC says more protection is not necessarily better. he's right, of course. the right amount of gear is the minimum needed to do the job. any MORE than that is an invitation to simply forgo the protocol. i honestly can't understand why anyone would argue with that. edit: HERE is the problem: the nurses caring for our first fatality had exposed necks with their "protective suits", their gloves weren't being taped to their gowns, AND instead of walking samples to the lab, they were using that vacuum system (whatever it's called) to zip samples through the hospital system. until you fix that, complaining about needing MORE safeguards is not only unwise, but counterproductive.
|
|
b2r
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 10:35:25 GMT -5
Posts: 7,257
|
Post by b2r on Oct 15, 2014 13:27:36 GMT -5
CDC says more protection is not necessarily better. he's right, of course. the right amount of gear is the minimum needed to do the job. any MORE than that is an invitation to simply forgo the protocol. i honestly can't understand why anyone would argue with that. edit: HERE is the problem: the nurses caring for our first fatality had exposed necks with their "protective suits", their gloves weren't being taped to their gowns, AND instead of walking samples to the lab, they were using that vacuum system (whatever it's called) to zip samples through the hospital system. until you fix that, complaining about needing MORE safeguards is not only unwise, but counterproductive. I'm sorry...I thought you knew! www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/pdf/ppe-poster.pdf
|
|