Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Sept 21, 2014 21:54:22 GMT -5
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Sept 21, 2014 22:26:04 GMT -5
I think it's true. I think most people that work with poor folks understand that it's true. It's also not a new thing. It's hard to dream about saving up 15K to put down on a crap house in a crap neighborhood (after having an EF and retirement savings) when you are living paycheck to paycheck. For some of these folks, it might as well be $1 million. I also think that some of the issues the author stated don't apply everywhere. Our city has a surprising number of services for the poor/uninsured/not here legally folks.
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JustLurkin
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This is what you look like right now.
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Post by JustLurkin on Sept 21, 2014 22:29:03 GMT -5
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Sept 22, 2014 4:27:24 GMT -5
I'm glad to hear that she got some writing done.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Sept 22, 2014 5:00:28 GMT -5
Here is one quote: "I smoke. It’s expensive. It’s also the best option. You see, I am always, always exhausted. It’s a stimulant. When I am too tired to walk one more step, I can smoke and go for another hour. When I am enraged and beaten down and incapable of accomplishing one more thing, I can smoke and I feel a little better, just for a minute. It is the only relaxation I am allowed."
First of all, I don't understand this "allowed" thing. Who is not "allowing" this person to do or not do anything? And, the justification to smoke? Ridiculous. Yeah, go ahead and wreck your health at an early age because you are "allowed".
And, the rest of the article, is mostly excuses of "oh I need to eat junk food. I need to buy convenience food. I can't cook", etc. Yes, there is some merit to the article and of course there are a lot of people struggling. But, with this approach to life, she is absolutely correct, she will always be poor.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Sept 22, 2014 6:00:39 GMT -5
She wasn't born into poverty. She is in poverty due to one bad decision after another...from screwing up college "because she was t ready" to having kids she can't afford. Run the numbers on what she spends in smoking a year.
As a person that was truly born into poverty I don't have a lot of sympathy for her. She out herself there but instead of digging her way out, she continues to make bad decisions that will keep her there.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Sept 22, 2014 6:59:01 GMT -5
A quote I find telling: "I get that poor people’s coping mechanisms aren’t cute. Really, I do. But what I don’t get is why other people feel so free in judging us for them. As if our self-destructive behaviours therefore justify and explain our crappy lives." She's saying it like the poor shouldn't be judged because they have self destructive behaviour and totally misses the point that it is those very behaviors that cause poverty in the first place.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Sept 22, 2014 7:18:23 GMT -5
I remember things like having $200 from working an extra shift or holiday and not knowing how to allocate it. There were so many different financial priorities - getting new work shoes before my toe wore through the leather, getting the windshield wipers replaced before the frost hit, getting new tires before they started spinning in snow. My winter coat was getting thin in the butt. I hadn't had a haircut for months. I'd been paying low balance bank charges for months. There was also the credit card balance that I'd been carrying for months. No matter what I did, there was a valid argument that I should have used the money for something else.
My answer to the confusion was to spend hours writing spreadsheets trying to figure out the best option and accept the potential downside of putting the rest on hold. A singleton with only one job and no kids has the time for that type of decision-making. I was lucky.
I also remember not quitting smoking. I calculated the cost of the habit many times, but feared going medieval if I tried to quit.
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achelois
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Post by achelois on Sept 22, 2014 7:18:42 GMT -5
She is a typical "victim".
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achelois
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Post by achelois on Sept 22, 2014 7:22:26 GMT -5
I remember things like having $200 from working an extra shift or holiday and not knowing how to allocate it. There were so many different financial priorities - getting new work shoes before my toe wore through the leather, getting the windshield wipers replaced before the frost hit, getting new tires before they started spinning in snow. My winter coat was getting thin in the butt. I hadn't had a haircut for months. I'd been paying low balance bank charges for months. There was also the credit card balance that I'd been carrying for months. No matter what I did, there was a valid argument that I should have used the money for something else. My answer to the confusion was to spend hours writing spreadsheets trying to figure out the best option and accept the potential downside of putting the rest on hold. A singleton with only one job and no kids has the time for that type of decision-making. I was lucky. I also remember not quitting smoking. I calculated the cost of the habit many times, but feared going medieval if I tried to quit. I remember lying awake nights trying to decide how to allocate money. I had kids and a husband, but we were very poor until I got out of my AD nursing program and started bringing in more than minimum wage. It totally sucks. The memories are still vivid after 40 years.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Sept 22, 2014 7:27:01 GMT -5
They are? Most of my memories got shoved into a "bad-time" hole. The details faded very quickly and I've found it very hard to talk about without reaching for cliches.
There's definitely a downside to attempting to put the experience into words.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Sept 22, 2014 7:33:49 GMT -5
I don't understand having (another?) child while living in a weekly hotel with no kitchen and on WIC.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2014 7:38:26 GMT -5
Wow- that was a pretty depressing read. There's so much in my own upbringing I take for granted: parents who valued education (and put their money behind it), regular medical and dental care, a father who started investing in the stock market early (and explained it to me), having Planned Parenthood around when I wanted to be sexually active and didn't want babies and couldn't tell my parents, being able to fix teeth that went bad (despite regular dental care and pretty good brushing/flossing habits)with bridges, crowns and implants... it goes on.
Yes, she messed up by reproducing when she had no way to support a baby except living in a welfare motel and getting WIC. That'll put you behind the 8-ball pretty fast. It also appears she hasn't had steady relationships- clearly not married when living in the welfare motel, went as someone's "date" to a company party, but now has a husband?
It made me sad for all the Planned Parenthood places that eventually closed after bombings, death threats and pickets drove them out. I suppose some would consider that a victory. I don't. If a woman decides she doesn't want to get pregnant because she can't care for a baby, why aren't we supporting that decision?
It made me realize how much something as superficial as missing teeth can make you ineligible for client-facing jobs. I wish I could donate to a fund that gave free implants to poor people, but you can end up with big problems if you don't get professional cleanings 4X/year and diligently use a Sonicare and WaterPik regularly. Those are ongoing expenses that you may not be able to handle if you're living paycheck-to-paycheck.
She does have something a lot of poor people don't have: intelligence and excellent communication skills. I'd say she's putting them to good use in her writing. There are some people who will never rise out of poverty because they lack the native intelligence to do the better-paying jobs and at least she's not in that category.
I think it was a really good description of her life in the trenches and it gave me some understanding of a life that (thank heaven) I'd never lived. I hope the HuffPost paid her for running her article.
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andreawick
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Post by andreawick on Sept 22, 2014 7:47:54 GMT -5
I don't understand having (another?) child while living in a weekly hotel with no kitchen and on WIC. can't you get more WIC if you have an extra child??
It's not like she's paying for the first kid....might as well have another!
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Sept 22, 2014 7:58:14 GMT -5
I don't understand having (another?) child while living in a weekly hotel with no kitchen and on WIC. can't you get more WIC if you have an extra child??
It's not like she's paying for the first kid....might as well have another!
I've never investigated the requirements for WIC but I believe so. But I don't believe that this woman is that stupid to believe that having another child will make her life better. She'll have a different excuse reason. My feeling is if you can't support yourself you have no business bringing a child into the world. And if your belief system doesn't allow for abortion then you have a duty to adopt out...for the child's sake.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 22, 2014 7:59:53 GMT -5
When you reward for bad behavior and penalize good behavior, what do you expect to start happening?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2014 8:21:43 GMT -5
Another argument I'm not sure I have strength for again... The fact that WIC, which is a very good program, is not a 'reward for bad behavior'... But an effort to not penalize children for others choices... Nor tax a social system with more malnourished, bad teeth, slow learning, etc. Children...
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Sept 22, 2014 8:32:46 GMT -5
I don't understand having (another?) child while living in a weekly hotel with no kitchen and on WIC. hush now...we aren't supposed to question her decisions...just feel bad because she is poor!
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Sept 22, 2014 8:35:17 GMT -5
Wow- that was a pretty depressing read. There's so much in my own upbringing I take for granted: parents who valued education (and put their money behind it), regular medical and dental care, a father who started investing in the stock market early (and explained it to me), having Planned Parenthood around when I wanted to be sexually active and didn't want babies and couldn't tell my parents, being able to fix teeth that went bad (despite regular dental care and pretty good brushing/flossing habits)with bridges, crowns and implants... it goes on. Yes, she messed up by reproducing when she had no way to support a baby except living in a welfare motel and getting WIC. That'll put you behind the 8-ball pretty fast. It also appears she hasn't had steady relationships- clearly not married when living in the welfare motel, went as someone's "date" to a company party, but now has a husband? It made me sad for all the Planned Parenthood places that eventually closed after bombings, death threats and pickets drove them out. I suppose some would consider that a victory. I don't. If a woman decides she doesn't want to get pregnant because she can't care for a baby, why aren't we supporting that decision? It made me realize how much something as superficial as missing teeth can make you ineligible for client-facing jobs. I wish I could donate to a fund that gave free implants to poor people, but you can end up with big problems if you don't get professional cleanings 4X/year and diligently use a Sonicare and WaterPik regularly. Those are ongoing expenses that you may not be able to handle if you're living paycheck-to-paycheck. She does have something a lot of poor people don't have: intelligence and excellent communication skills. I'd say she's putting them to good use in her writing. There are some people who will never rise out of poverty because they lack the native intelligence to do the better-paying jobs and at least she's not in that category. I think it was a really good description of her life in the trenches and it gave me some understanding of a life that (thank heaven) I'd never lived. I hope the HuffPost paid her for running her article. One of the only things she didn't blame for her poverty was an inability to get an abortion....
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Sept 22, 2014 8:38:03 GMT -5
Another argument I'm not sure I have strength for again... The fact that WIC, which is a very good program, is not a 'reward for bad behavior'... But an effort to not penalize children for others choices... Nor tax a social system with more malnourished, bad teeth, slow learning, etc. Children... Not to mention that it's not the goldmine for people that these comments seem to assume. I checked it out, since we technically qualify currently. It might provide for about $50 of food per month. That might be per kid, or for 2, I can't remember, but it's not a hell of a lot.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2014 8:45:40 GMT -5
I don't understand having (another?) child while living in a weekly hotel with no kitchen and on WIC. can't you get more WIC if you have an extra child??
It's not like she's paying for the first kid....might as well have another!
WIC is a supplement. It really isn't a huge handout. It's just to make sure pregnant women and kids get some of the basic nutritional needs met and is very specific about what you can get. It ends at age 5 and from ages 1-5 the amount of food you get every month is pretty limited, a few gallons of milk, a jar of peanut butter, some cans of tuna, a few boxes of cereal, a dozen eggs and maybe a gallon of juice. It kicks in the most during pregnancy and the first year of a child's life. If a woman is breastfeeding she gets food for herself, but if not then it's just formula and she forfeits the food incentive. I was on it for a year once and while it was helpful, it certainly didn't make having kids free!
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Sept 22, 2014 8:52:49 GMT -5
Another argument I'm not sure I have strength for again... The fact that WIC, which is a very good program, is not a 'reward for bad behavior'... But an effort to not penalize children for others choices... Nor tax a social system with more malnourished, bad teeth, slow learning, etc. Children... Not to mention that it's not the goldmine for people that these comments seem to assume. I checked it out, since we technically qualify currently. It might provide for about $50 of food per month. That might be per kid, or for 2, I can't remember, but it's not a hell of a lot. If she was poor enough, she qualified for food stamps and WIC. WIC alone might not be that much per month but when added to the food stamps it adds up.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Sept 22, 2014 9:05:49 GMT -5
Not to mention that it's not the goldmine for people that these comments seem to assume. I checked it out, since we technically qualify currently. It might provide for about $50 of food per month. That might be per kid, or for 2, I can't remember, but it's not a hell of a lot. If she was poor enough, she qualified for food stamps and WIC. WIC alone might not be that much per month but when added to the food stamps it adds up. Yeah, I didn't read the article, so I don't know what she got. I didn't want to read it after seeing the comments about it--she just sounds really whiney. There are poor people out there that had no choice and there was little they could do to get out. She doesn't sound like that, from the few anecdotes I read here.
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PK Bucko
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Post by PK Bucko on Sept 22, 2014 9:12:37 GMT -5
The article is hard to read. I couldn't get past the, living in a hotel when she got pregnant part.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2014 9:25:11 GMT -5
What she doesn't seem to acknowledge or maybe understand is why some of us react to the poor the way we do. The whole thing makes us uncomfortable, creeps us out, and makes us wish it would go away. So it is easier to ignore. As a person it is always difficult to be ignored- to be looked right through. I think that is where some of her perceived anger comes through too, perhaps.
Our system is set up that someone is going to be at the bottom of the pile. What this woman put out there for the world to see is why she is at the bottom. She is hopeless and does not have a great set of life skills. It's like life is a baseball tournament and all the worst players get stuck on the same team. These guys shouldn't even be playing baseball but there is no other game and they have no choice. And then when they get out there to play the folks that are more naturally athletic ridicule them.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Sept 22, 2014 9:35:10 GMT -5
I totally understand some of the mentality, like buying lottery tickets. During college, I had a shitty job at a gas station. I hated it, and it felt like I was never going to get anywhere working my ass off at minimum wage. Lottery tickets felt like your only hope of breaking out of the subsistence lifestyle.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2014 9:35:25 GMT -5
Wow- that was a pretty depressing read. There's so much in my own upbringing I take for granted: parents who valued education (and put their money behind it), regular medical and dental care, a father who started investing in the stock market early (and explained it to me), having Planned Parenthood around when I wanted to be sexually active and didn't want babies and couldn't tell my parents, being able to fix teeth that went bad (despite regular dental care and pretty good brushing/flossing habits)with bridges, crowns and implants... it goes on. Yes, she messed up by reproducing when she had no way to support a baby except living in a welfare motel and getting WIC. That'll put you behind the 8-ball pretty fast. It also appears she hasn't had steady relationships- clearly not married when living in the welfare motel, went as someone's "date" to a company party, but now has a husband? It made me sad for all the Planned Parenthood places that eventually closed after bombings, death threats and pickets drove them out. I suppose some would consider that a victory. I don't. If a woman decides she doesn't want to get pregnant because she can't care for a baby, why aren't we supporting that decision? It made me realize how much something as superficial as missing teeth can make you ineligible for client-facing jobs. I wish I could donate to a fund that gave free implants to poor people, but you can end up with big problems if you don't get professional cleanings 4X/year and diligently use a Sonicare and WaterPik regularly. Those are ongoing expenses that you may not be able to handle if you're living paycheck-to-paycheck. She does have something a lot of poor people don't have: intelligence and excellent communication skills. I'd say she's putting them to good use in her writing. There are some people who will never rise out of poverty because they lack the native intelligence to do the better-paying jobs and at least she's not in that category. I think it was a really good description of her life in the trenches and it gave me some understanding of a life that (thank heaven) I'd never lived. I hope the HuffPost paid her for running her article. One of the only things she didn't blame for her poverty was an inability to get an abortion.... Abortion is 3% of what Planned Parenthood does... Shut them down for that, you stop all their services...
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Sept 22, 2014 9:37:22 GMT -5
One of the only things she didn't blame for her poverty was an inability to get an abortion.... Abortion is 3% of what Planned Parenthood does... Shut them down for that, you stop all their services... If you read the post to which I was replying, I'm pretty sure Athena meant that she would have had an abortion if us meanies wouldn't have stopped her. No where in the original article did the woman complain that she couldn't get an abortion. I'm not sure what the rest of services provided by Planned Parenthood has to do with this woman's situation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2014 9:39:23 GMT -5
Actually she said didn't want to GET pregnant, not didn't want to continue a pregnancy...
The article did say that bowls of condoms free at university are nice... For those who get the opportunity to go to university (or something to that effect)...
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Sept 22, 2014 9:40:05 GMT -5
I totally understand some of the mentality, like buying lottery tickets. During college, I had a shitty job at a gas station. I hated it, and it felt like I was never going to get anywhere working my ass off at minimum wage. Lottery tickets felt like your only hope of breaking out of the subsistence lifestyle. I had tons of shitty jobs...from cleaning schools (and yes, toilets!) to waitressing to telemarketing (I sucked ass at that one). I never let my crappy "at the moment" jobs make me feel like I was never getting anywhere, though. All they did was motivate me to get my degree (in a field I knew I could make money in) and get out of that shit hole life.
Maybe it all comes down to personality? I don't mean you milizard but people like the woman in the article. Instead of using a bad situation to motivate them to make life better, they use their situation as an excuse to keep making horrible choices?
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