Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Sept 22, 2014 9:41:22 GMT -5
Actually she said didn't want to GET pregnant, not didn't want to continue a pregnancy... The article did say that bowls of condoms free at university are nice... For those who get the opportunity to go to university (or something to that effect)... and yet she got pregnant not once but twice...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2014 9:44:29 GMT -5
IMHO, poverty limits your choices. Rather than being able to go buy a washing machine on credit for $200, you end up at the laundromat washing clothes in a dinky washing machine for $3 a load - and having it take hours away from home to boot.
It means you eat cheaper, less healthy foods, and that leads to more problems.
It really is a cycle that has to be broken - in many ways, before things get any better. And, much of that cycle is in your brain... whether it is depression or other issues, a major problem is the belief that life just won't get that much better for you.
I was fortunate to be able to ask a relative for a loan, and to get some free-to-me used clothing appropriate for an office job. Without those two things, I would have had to quit my new job before it started. With those two simple things, I now have a job that pays me enough money to NOT live in poverty and start to climb out.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Sept 22, 2014 9:50:25 GMT -5
I totally understand some of the mentality, like buying lottery tickets. During college, I had a shitty job at a gas station. I hated it, and it felt like I was never going to get anywhere working my ass off at minimum wage. Lottery tickets felt like your only hope of breaking out of the subsistence lifestyle. I had tons of shitty jobs...from cleaning schools (and yes, toilets!) to waitressing to telemarketing (I sucked ass at that one). I never let my crappy "at the moment" jobs make me feel like I was never getting anywhere, though. All they did was motivate me to get my degree (in a field I knew I could make money in) and get out of that shit hole life.
Maybe it all comes down to personality? I don't mean you milizard but people like the woman in the article. Instead of using a bad situation to motivate them to make life better, they use their situation as an excuse to keep making horrible choices?
True, which is what makes me not want to even read this link. (That, and it reminds me of my sister and her husband, who blew all sorts of opportunities that were handed to them.) What is truly heartbreaking is that she has children that are effected by those bad choices. If shitty jobs aren't a good enough motivator to try to get out in any way possible, children should be.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Sept 22, 2014 9:52:42 GMT -5
What Shasta said . DS1 had a period during the .com crash that he couldn't get hired for anything. He applied for all jobs available and cold called fora number of others. All low level jobs he got the same answer "you are over qualified and you will be gone as soon as something better comes along". By the time he finally found a job he had less than $0 left and could only take it because I funded his move, first/last, and the first month of living expenses. He paid it all back (not because I wanted it, but because he needed to do so for his own self esteem) but without the "bank of mom" that job would have passed him by. He has been doing great ever since OT: Shasta, are these wild fires anywhere near you? Please stay safe!
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Sept 22, 2014 9:53:45 GMT -5
It really is a cycle that has to be broken - in many ways, before things get any better. And, much of that cycle is in your brain... whether it is depression or other issues, a major problem is the belief that life just won't get that much better for you.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2014 9:58:16 GMT -5
If you read the post to which I was replying, I'm pretty sure Athena meant that she would have had an abortion if us meanies wouldn't have stopped her. No where in the original article did the woman complain that she couldn't get an abortion. I'm not sure what the rest of services provided by Planned Parenthood has to do with this woman's situation. No, what I meant was that she referred to the long distance you had to go to PP, which in my mind prevents women who want contraception from getting it.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 22, 2014 10:12:32 GMT -5
How the hell do you have sex in a hotel room with a small child there? God forbid she should just not screw and actually use that time wisely.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Sept 22, 2014 10:12:47 GMT -5
If you read the post to which I was replying, I'm pretty sure Athena meant that she would have had an abortion if us meanies wouldn't have stopped her. No where in the original article did the woman complain that she couldn't get an abortion. I'm not sure what the rest of services provided by Planned Parenthood has to do with this woman's situation. No, what I meant was that she referred to the long distance you had to go to PP, which in my mind prevents women who want contraception from getting it. Gotcha. But there are other places to get contraception than PP.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Sept 22, 2014 10:29:39 GMT -5
We're judging people's class by their accent now?
How very, um, progressive (NOT!).
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Sept 22, 2014 10:29:54 GMT -5
I just skimmed the top - I think we've read this before? For me - being poor never touched me deeply - it was merely a month to month bill issue and one that I got over fairly quickly (well - about 8-9 years it was tough I guess) having been on good ground now for wow - nearly 15 years. no matter how poor I was - I never felt low class due to family history, education, etc. It was all a temporary hardship that I would overcome - and sure enough - I did. I can't imagine what it is like to be trying to get out of poverty when you carry it with you - in the way you talk, dress, present yourself, etc. No matter how little money I had - all I had to do was don a good set of clothes and I could present myself for any level of job. In chicago at least, there is a definite feel to being poor in terms of the way one talks. DD would call it 'being ghetto' as in 'soandso did/said blah blah but - year she's kinda ghetto'. I remember how shocked I was when I met one of DS' friends mother. And she was talking about "Dees tings over Dare" with a low-class chicago accent I thought had disappeared due to television's influence on language. Her son spoke similarly to us. But they can be overcome. As you are all sick of hearing me yammer on about, I was raised by an uneducated single mom in government housing. My grammar was full of double negatives, local slang, etc. It was a concerted effort on my part but once I got to community college I made sure I improved my grammar. I'm far from a grammar Nazi but if you spoke to me in person today you would never know how I spoke 25 years ago.
My biggest issue is that I should have been a statistic. I should be the one all tatted up, living in a trailer on the taxpayers dime. The fact that I'm not proves that with hard work and determination ANYONE (short of truly disabled) can beat their way out of poverty. Anyone that claims they can't is dismissed in my book. I am no smarter than the average bear. I had a goal very early in life and didn't stop until I met it. If people would be honest and say "I fucked up and now I'm overwhelmed and don't know where to start" I would get it. But the "the world is against me and no matter what I do I can't get ahead" schtick just pisses me off.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Sept 22, 2014 10:30:42 GMT -5
We're judging people's class by their accent now?
How very, um, progressive (NOT!). Come on. You might not like what she has to say but it is true. People ARE judged by their appearance, how they talk and how they carry themselves.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Sept 22, 2014 10:38:50 GMT -5
We're judging people's class by their accent now?
How very, um, progressive (NOT!). Come on. You might not like what she has to say but it is true. People ARE judged by their appearance, how they talk and how they carry themselves. I thought we were trying to move beyond that and weren't supposed to judge by appearances? Seriously, one of the smartest people I know is my BIL. He was born in the deep south and speaks with a very heavy slow southern accent. However, anyone who assumed he was stupid or low class would be absolutely wrong. I guess it's a good thing that the guy I just hired with the low-class south side accent has a manager who grew up in the same area and understands some words are said differently depending on where you are from. Trying to associate someone with a socioeconomic or behavioral class based simply on accent is IMHO the second worse type of stereotyping there is.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 22, 2014 10:43:18 GMT -5
But it happens. Do you think someone who is barely understandable is going to be hired to answer a phone or deal with customers? Don't you get pissed when you call for service and can't understand the person on the other line? Do you ask for someone else?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Sept 22, 2014 10:47:30 GMT -5
Seriously, one of the smartest people I know is my BIL. He was born in the deep south and speaks with a very heavy slow southern accent. However, anyone who assumed he was stupid or low class would be absolutely wrong.
Some people can get past that and some can't. As Miss T says, it's a reality that people judge you for how you speak.
I'm not really sure where I fall on the judgment scale anymore. I used to be super judgmental about poor people and their bad choices, but now that I have a kid and fully understand how it makes everything 10,000x harder - I can really see how bad decisions in youth can lead to early unplanned pregnancies and the derailment of all kinds of life plans. And when you start out so far behind, it really has to be hard to catch up.
Yeah - no one forces kids to get pregnant at young ages. That's true, but on the other hand, if it's all you know and you're told all your life that you're just trash and can do no better anyway, that means the deck is heavily stacked against you from the word go.
Miss T, on the one hand I do think that your story is pretty kickass and more people could learn from it. On the other hand, part of me thinks you're a huge exception. Not many people have the strength of mind to look around at such an early age and say "I want better." I don't think that thought ever occurs to most kids born in poverty.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Sept 22, 2014 10:54:13 GMT -5
Add that to the fact that she peppers her writing with "fuck" this and "fucking" that. If she writes like that, you can bet she speaks like that. None of us are above cursing on occasion, but most of us are smart enough to know when not to. She's obviously an intelligent, well-spoken woman. She quit school because she "wasn't ready". She is living in a motel with a baby...so she has another one. She has terrible health habits that resulted in, according to her, appearance issues. And she makes excuses for them all. She is sabotaging herself and one has to wonder how much of it is intentional because she's obviously not stupid.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2014 11:52:08 GMT -5
I was trying to figure out what her "appearance issues" were because the pictures I saw she actually was kind of cute. But I guess it was teeth and apparently now that she has money she still hasn't fixed them, but got more tatoos! www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/21/linda-tirado-poverty-hand-to-mouth-interviewNow you’re in the public eye, have you had your (controversial) teeth fixed? Actually, I’m turning that into a project. So… no, not yet. But I will say my shampoo is much nicer now. I’ve also had three new tattoos. The TV people don’t like those at all. They make me wear a jacket.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 22, 2014 11:55:31 GMT -5
Get a clue. She obviously doesn't really want a job of any kind. We know this great guy who has worked very hard getting his degree and supporting his kids. Tattled all over the place. Can't even cover them with a long sleeve shirt because he decided his neck needed them as well. So he's too qualified for the shop where that wouldn't matter but can't do front office because he doesn't look the part.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Sept 22, 2014 11:55:53 GMT -5
Thanks for finding that, MPL - once again - point made.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Sept 22, 2014 11:56:22 GMT -5
I was trying to figure out what her "appearance issues" were because the pictures I saw she actually was kind of cute. But I guess it was teeth and apparently now that she has money she still hasn't fixed them, but got more tatoos! www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/21/linda-tirado-poverty-hand-to-mouth-interviewNow you’re in the public eye, have you had your (controversial) teeth fixed? Actually, I’m turning that into a project. So… no, not yet. But I will say my shampoo is much nicer now. I’ve also had three new tattoos. The TV people don’t like those at all. They make me wear a jacket. Yeah...I can't imagine why she can't work here way out of poverty
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Sept 22, 2014 11:57:11 GMT -5
Get a clue. She obviously doesn't really want a job of any kind. We know this great guy who has worked very hard getting his degree and supporting his kids. Tattled all over the place. Can't even cover them with a long sleeve shirt because he decided his neck needed them as well. So he's too qualified for the shop where that wouldn't matter but can't do front office because he doesn't look the part. To be fair...no one likes a tattle-tail
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 22, 2014 11:57:45 GMT -5
Oops!
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Sept 22, 2014 12:24:06 GMT -5
Come on. You might not like what she has to say but it is true. People ARE judged by their appearance, how they talk and how they carry themselves. I thought we were trying to move beyond that and weren't supposed to judge by appearances? Seriously, one of the smartest people I know is my BIL. He was born in the deep south and speaks with a very heavy slow southern accent. However, anyone who assumed he was stupid or low class would be absolutely wrong. I guess it's a good thing that the guy I just hired with the low-class south side accent has a manager who grew up in the same area and understands some words are said differently depending on where you are from. Trying to associate someone with a socioeconomic or behavioral class based simply on accent is IMHO the second worse type of stereotyping there is. There is a difference between an accent and speaking in a way that tends to indicate poverty. A southern accent when you grew up in the south isn't anything worth judging. Being able to turn off the ghetto & speak proper is a whole different thing...I knew a lot of people that could & a lot that couldn't. Those that can't aren't going to get anywhere. If you can't keep from saying ghetto phrases like "already", "yeah, man", or "fuck that shit" during an interview you aren't going to get a decent job. Like I said, I knew a lot that couldn't turn it off, they literally never learned how to speak decent english or even act proper. Not any different than showing up to an interview in a wife-beater or pants around your knees. You will be judged for it.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Sept 22, 2014 12:24:06 GMT -5
I'm ashamed to admit that I found a lot of truth in this paragraph.
"Free” only exists for rich people. It’s great that there’s a bowl of condoms at my school, but most poor people will never set foot on a college campus. We don’t belong there. There’s a clinic? Great! There’s still a copay [cost levied by health insurance companies]. We’re not going. Besides, all they’ll tell you at the clinic is you need to see a specialist, which, seriously? Might as well be located on Mars for how accessible it is. “Low cost” and “sliding scale” sound like “money you have to spend” to me, and they can’t help you anyway."
When you take a tumble down the socioeconomic ladder, it's hard not to notice that the quality of what's handed to you, or left on a table for you to accept or deny, or even the free advice that you're given, deteriorates. My job requires using a pen but they only hand you a pen once a year in December. There are no mini-quiches left over from the morning meeting in my break room. The "Wellness" pamplets periodically distributed to us do not contain condoms but such gems as "Consider sauteeing your vegetables with low-fat cooking spray instead of butter or margarine". My workplace is amazingly free of pleasant surprises. I don't remember life always being like this.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Sept 22, 2014 13:08:11 GMT -5
I thought we were trying to move beyond that and weren't supposed to judge by appearances? Seriously, one of the smartest people I know is my BIL. He was born in the deep south and speaks with a very heavy slow southern accent. However, anyone who assumed he was stupid or low class would be absolutely wrong. I guess it's a good thing that the guy I just hired with the low-class south side accent has a manager who grew up in the same area and understands some words are said differently depending on where you are from. Trying to associate someone with a socioeconomic or behavioral class based simply on accent is IMHO the second worse type of stereotyping there is. There is a difference between an accent and speaking in a way that tends to indicate poverty. A southern accent when you grew up in the south isn't anything worth judging. Being able to turn off the ghetto & speak proper is a whole different thing...I knew a lot of people that could & a lot that couldn't. Those that can't aren't going to get anywhere. If you can't keep from saying ghetto phrases like "already", "yeah, man", or "fuck that shit" during an interview you aren't going to get a decent job. Like I said, I knew a lot that couldn't turn it off, they literally never learned how to speak decent english or even act proper. Not any different than showing up to an interview in a wife-beater or pants around your knees. You will be judged for it. We weren't talking uncouth phrases and you know it. The direct words used were ""Dees tings over Dare" with a low-class chicago accent". In Chicago we talk about "Da Bears" and "Da Bulls" and "So Siders" who find the "th" sound unnecessary. I still don't bother with the "th" sound when peeps ask me where I grew up. Guess I missed the memo and should have been delegated to poverty as a lowly so sider with a low-class accent. Who the fuck has (oops - my "low class" is showing ) any right to judge someone as low class based simply on their accent? That's (imagine this in a British accent - it will give me more credibility in your book) patently absurd. Yes, I can turn the accent on and off. At work it's off. At home and around friends it's on. It's part of who I am (and I'm sure it's part of the mom whose vocal patters are the subject of discussion) and I'll be damned if I worry about someone judging me by how I sound as opposed to who I am.
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xia
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Post by xia on Sept 22, 2014 13:13:23 GMT -5
The lady who wrote the article has already given up. It’s sad because she is still young. The only thing out of the whole article I agree with her is the smoking.
I used to smoke when I was broke, living from paycheck to paycheck, horrified what if (insert any relatively small emergency) happens entire house of cards will collapse. In those days check floating was still doable and I am ashamed to say I’ve done it. Problem is smoking is almost impossible to quit when under constant stress. I quit cold turkey almost ten years ago but it was not till I was financially stable and life’s stress level was under manageable control. Honestly I have never personally met anyone who successfully quit smoking long term while being broke and I’m sure there is not a smoker in the world that is not aware how bad it is for their health and financial situation. It’s just very hard to do while under constant stress.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2014 13:13:50 GMT -5
There is a difference between an accent and speaking in a way that tends to indicate poverty. A southern accent when you grew up in the south isn't anything worth judging. Being able to turn off the ghetto & speak proper is a whole different thing...I knew a lot of people that could & a lot that couldn't. Those that can't aren't going to get anywhere. If you can't keep from saying ghetto phrases like "already", "yeah, man", or "fuck that shit" during an interview you aren't going to get a decent job. Like I said, I knew a lot that couldn't turn it off, they literally never learned how to speak decent english or even act proper. Not any different than showing up to an interview in a wife-beater or pants around your knees. You will be judged for it. We weren't talking uncouth phrases and you know it. The direct words used were ""Dees tings over Dare" with a low-class chicago accent". In Chicago we talk about "Da Bears" and "Da Bulls" and "So Siders" who find the "th" sound unnecessary. I still don't bother with the "th" sound when peeps ask me where I grew up. Guess I missed the memo and should have been delegated to poverty as a lowly so sider with a low-class accent. Who the fuck has (oops - my "low class" is showing ) any right to judge someone as low class based simply on their accent? That's (imagine this in a British accent - it will give me more credibility in your book) patently absurd. Yes, I can turn the accent on and off. At work it's off. At home and around friends it's on. It's part of who I am (and I'm sure it's part of the mom whose vocal patters are the subject of discussion) and I'll be damned if I worry about someone judging me by how I sound as opposed to who I am. Didn't you just agree with her? You turn it off for work. You do that because you know it makes a difference.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Sept 22, 2014 13:14:46 GMT -5
xia - not judging - but reading that just makes me so glad I never took up smoking in the first place.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Sept 22, 2014 13:19:51 GMT -5
There is a difference between an accent and speaking in a way that tends to indicate poverty. A southern accent when you grew up in the south isn't anything worth judging. Being able to turn off the ghetto & speak proper is a whole different thing...I knew a lot of people that could & a lot that couldn't. Those that can't aren't going to get anywhere. If you can't keep from saying ghetto phrases like "already", "yeah, man", or "fuck that shit" during an interview you aren't going to get a decent job. Like I said, I knew a lot that couldn't turn it off, they literally never learned how to speak decent english or even act proper. Not any different than showing up to an interview in a wife-beater or pants around your knees. You will be judged for it. We weren't talking uncouth phrases and you know it. The direct words used were ""Dees tings over Dare" with a low-class chicago accent". In Chicago we talk about "Da Bears" and "Da Bulls" and "So Siders" who find the "th" sound unnecessary. I still don't bother with the "th" sound when peeps ask me where I grew up. Guess I missed the memo and should have been delegated to poverty as a lowly so sider with a low-class accent. Who the fuck has (oops - my "low class" is showing ) any right to judge someone as low class based simply on their accent? That's (imagine this in a British accent - it will give me more credibility in your book) patently absurd. Yes, I can turn the accent on and off. At work it's off. At home and around friends it's on. It's part of who I am (and I'm sure it's part of the mom whose vocal patters are the subject of discussion) and I'll be damned if I worry about someone judging me by how I sound as opposed to who I am. It is a combination of the words used and the accent. Even without the accent "These things over there" is not exactly high-class language. Accents can amplify it, but it isn't solely the accent that is the problem. It is speaking as though you lack education, and yes you will get judged for it.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Sept 22, 2014 13:23:09 GMT -5
There is a difference between an accent and speaking in a way that tends to indicate poverty. A southern accent when you grew up in the south isn't anything worth judging. Being able to turn off the ghetto & speak proper is a whole different thing...I knew a lot of people that could & a lot that couldn't. Those that can't aren't going to get anywhere. If you can't keep from saying ghetto phrases like "already", "yeah, man", or "fuck that shit" during an interview you aren't going to get a decent job. Like I said, I knew a lot that couldn't turn it off, they literally never learned how to speak decent english or even act proper. Not any different than showing up to an interview in a wife-beater or pants around your knees. You will be judged for it. We weren't talking uncouth phrases and you know it. The direct words used were ""Dees tings over Dare" with a low-class chicago accent". In Chicago we talk about "Da Bears" and "Da Bulls" and "So Siders" who find the "th" sound unnecessary. I still don't bother with the "th" sound when peeps ask me where I grew up. Guess I missed the memo and should have been delegated to poverty as a lowly so sider with a low-class accent. Who the fuck has (oops - my "low class" is showing ) any right to judge someone as low class based simply on their accent? That's (imagine this in a British accent - it will give me more credibility in your book) patently absurd. Yes, I can turn the accent on and off. At work it's off. At home and around friends it's on. It's part of who I am (and I'm sure it's part of the mom whose vocal patters are the subject of discussion) and I'll be damned if I worry about someone judging me by how I sound as opposed to who I am. I think you nailed the difference between you, someone who is successful, and those living and staying in poverty. The fact that you turn it off at work tells me that you know that is not acceptable in a professional setting and that you would be judged if you spoke like that. If you truly so no problem with it, you wouldn't feel the need to turn off that pattern of speech.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Sept 22, 2014 13:25:12 GMT -5
The lady who wrote the article has already given up. It is sad, but she writes as the victim. She does a very good job explaining why poor people stay poor. What is sad is she does not seem to fully recognize why her choices are part of what keeps her there. Talking about stuff like poor people just can't have good skin, I don't buy that. While I believe there is difficulty in finding full time jobs, I know plenty of people that work low wage jobs full time. It is probably harder to get one when you even admit you basically don't try and to go above and beyond. Being willing to go above & beyond is what gets you recognized, what keeps you from losing your job, & what moves you up the ladder.
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