Ray Rice NFL Suspension Over Domestic Violence.

[Deleted]

Sept 13, 2014 20:55:41 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Sept 13, 2014 20:36:37 GMT -5 Angel! said:

I find it odd that you agree he totally overreacted by punching her, but at the same time trying to spin this into a liberal issue.

I don't see this as a political issue at all. I think some things such as dv and child abuse are above politics.

something is wrong, so.....Obama.

Sept 13, 2014 20:58:37 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Sept 13, 2014 20:40:30 GMT -5 swamp said:

I am really not following how this is a liberal or conservative issue. Hitting your spouse is a bad thing.  

something bad happened, so.....Obama.

Huh? What's His Holiness, The Great and Powerful, Emperor Obama got to do with this?

[mmhmm]

Sept 13, 2014 21:45:18 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Sept 13, 2014 20:55:41 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

something is wrong, so.....Obama.

Sept 13, 2014 20:58:37 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

something bad happened, so.....Obama.

Huh? What's His Holiness, The Great and Powerful, Emperor Obama got to do with this?

Absolutely nothing. That's the point.

[Deleted]

Sept 13, 2014 21:27:41 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Sept 13, 2014 21:26:56 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

LOL... how would you accomplish that in this case? Through the elevator wall?

I told you how that would be accomplished. You just choose not to recognize it.

I was referring to the obviously bolded (in my reply) suggestion of "you walk away" that Paul made.

I'd like to know how one can "walk away" when one is inside an elevator.


ETA: Oh, and I didn't choose not to recognize it. It was a flawed idea. I pointed out some of the possible flaws. You chose to ignore them.

[mmhmm]

Sept 13, 2014 21:47:36 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Sept 13, 2014 21:27:41 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I told you how that would be accomplished. You just choose not to recognize it.

I was referring to the obviously bolded (in my reply) suggestion of "you walk away" that Paul made.

I'd like to know how one can "walk away" when one is inside an elevator.

Like I said: Spin her, pin her, and walk her off the elevator when the door opens. It's too late to use semantics to wiggle out of the fact that this man did not have to clock the woman and drag her like a sack of offal, leaving her halfway in and out of the elevator, Richard.

[Deleted]

I wish the board would stop substituting for me when I post several "?" in a row... I want those actual "?"

[mmhmm]

Sept 13, 2014 21:47:36 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Sept 13, 2014 21:27:41 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I told you how that would be accomplished. You just choose not to recognize it.

I was referring to the obviously bolded (in my reply) suggestion of "you walk away" that Paul made.

I'd like to know how one can "walk away" when one is inside an elevator.


ETA: Oh, and I didn't choose not to recognize it. It was a flawed idea. I pointed out some of the possible flaws. You chose to ignore them.

To your ETA, you've made it abundantly clear you know nothing of the tactic of spin and pin, Richard. That's all you've accomplished.

[mmhmm]

Sept 13, 2014 21:50:04 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

I wish the board would stop substituting for me when I post several "?" in a row... I want those actual "?"

I'm glad the board does that. Multiple question marks in a row are a little silly, IMO.

[Deleted]

Sept 13, 2014 21:50:27 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Sept 13, 2014 21:47:36 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

I was referring to the obviously bolded (in my reply) suggestion of "you walk away" that Paul made.

I'd like to know how one can "walk away" when one is inside an elevator.


ETA: Oh, and I didn't choose not to recognize it. It was a flawed idea. I pointed out some of the possible flaws. You chose to ignore them.

To your ETA, you've made it abundantly clear you know nothing of the tactic of spin and pin, Richard. That's all you've accomplished.

Many people don't know "spin and pin" I'd be willing to wager. I'd also be willing to wager that many people would rather NOT just be attacked without defending themselves.

[Deleted]

Sept 13, 2014 21:51:17 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Sept 13, 2014 21:50:04 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

I wish the board would stop substituting for me when I post several "?" in a row... I want those actual "?"

I'm glad the board does that. Multiple question marks in a row are a little silly, IMO.

LOL... I know they are silly. Silly is usually the point when I use them

[mmhmm]

Sept 13, 2014 21:51:45 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Sept 13, 2014 21:50:27 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

To your ETA, you've made it abundantly clear you know nothing of the tactic of spin and pin, Richard. That's all you've accomplished.

Many people don't know "spin and pin" I'd be willing to wager. I'd also be willing to wager that many people would rather NOT just be attacked without defending themselves.

The many people who don't know will usually have the sense not to show their ignorance. Using that tactic, Mr. Tough Guy would not have been attacked. You have no argument here.

[Deleted]

Sept 13, 2014 21:49:25 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Sept 13, 2014 21:47:36 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

I was referring to the obviously bolded (in my reply) suggestion of "you walk away" that Paul made.

I'd like to know how one can "walk away" when one is inside an elevator.

Like I said: Spin her, pin her, and walk her off the elevator when the door opens. It's too late to use semantics to wiggle out of the fact that this man did not have to clock the woman and drag her like a sack of offal, leaving her halfway in and out of the elevator, Richard.

I'm not giving him a pass on the dragging he did. Did you see me anywhere say otherwise?

[mmhmm]

Sept 13, 2014 21:53:30 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Sept 13, 2014 21:49:25 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Like I said: Spin her, pin her, and walk her off the elevator when the door opens. It's too late to use semantics to wiggle out of the fact that this man did not have to clock the woman and drag her like a sack of offal, leaving her halfway in and out of the elevator, Richard.

I'm not giving him a pass on the dragging he did. Did you see me anywhere say otherwise?

I'm not giving him a pass on clocking her when he didn't have to do so, either. If you are, I really question your judgement - and you still don't have an argument here.

[Deleted]

Sept 13, 2014 21:58:46 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Sept 13, 2014 21:53:30 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

I'm not giving him a pass on the dragging he did. Did you see me anywhere say otherwise?

I'm not giving him a pass on clocking her when he didn't have to do so, either. If you are, I really question your judgement - and you still don't have an argument here.

Your opinion is that he didn't have to. That's not an opinion shared by everyone (including at least some women, according to a few interviews of women, that I've seen, that support him).

My opinion is that while he may not have HAD to, he was justified in doing so.

ETA: Just so you don't think I'm making it up... here's a link to a video of one woman with the same belief as me, and another one (later in the same video), that basically says "he made a mistake, owned up to it, paid the price asked and we should just move on": Video

ETA II: that same woman that's first in the video also has another statement closer to the end of the video.... so watch it all the way through.

[Tennesseer]

Sept 13, 2014 21:24:46 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Sept 13, 2014 21:00:41 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Yet you are absolutely not surprised that this poster is attempting to do so.  Admit it!

Not surprised in the least. A little surprised that the poster has company, however! 

You MUST be new here.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 13, 2014 21:45:18 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Sept 13, 2014 20:55:41 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

something is wrong, so.....Obama.

Sept 13, 2014 20:58:37 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

something bad happened, so.....Obama.

Huh? What's His Holiness, The Great and Powerful, Emperor Obama got to do with this?

if it is bad, he is responsible.  and if things APPEAR to be going well, they aren't.  it is just your imagination.

or it is a conspiracy to make you think that things are going well, brought to you by.....you guessed it....Obama.

[mmhmm]

Sept 13, 2014 22:13:08 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Sept 13, 2014 21:58:46 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I'm not giving him a pass on clocking her when he didn't have to do so, either. If you are, I really question your judgement - and you still don't have an argument here.

Your opinion is that he didn't have to. That's not an opinion shared by everyone (including at least some women, according to a few interviews of women, that I've seen, that support him).

My opinion is that while he may not have HAD to, he was justified in doing so.

ETA: Just so you don't think I'm making it up... here's a link to a video of one woman with the same belief as me, and another one (later in the same video), that basically says "he made a mistake, owned up to it, paid the price asked and we should just move on": Video

ETA II: that same woman that's first in the video also has another statement closer to the end of the video.... so watch it all the way through.

I've already heard their garbage, Richard. If a man twice the woman's size needs to knock her out in order to deal with the situation, that's his problem. If you need to do the same, that's your problem. I wouldn't have had to do that. Any man shouldn't have had to do that. I didn't think you were making it up, but it probably would have been better if you had been. There's no justification for what he did as far as I'm concerned and I'm pretty damned sure my stance is that of the majority of sentient beings.  Done.

[Shooby]

But she isn't a man so its a moot point.

[Shooby]

If a 10 yr old came up abd sprayed him with a water gun should he cold cock him too,?

[billisonboard]

Sept 13, 2014 23:36:17 GMT -5 Shooby said:

If a 10 yr old came up abd sprayed him with a water gun should he cold cock him too,?

Women=children?

[Deleted]

Sept 13, 2014 23:16:48 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Sept 13, 2014 22:13:08 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Your opinion is that he didn't have to. That's not an opinion shared by everyone (including at least some women, according to a few interviews of women, that I've seen, that support him).

My opinion is that while he may not have HAD to, he was justified in doing so.

ETA: Just so you don't think I'm making it up... here's a link to a video of one woman with the same belief as me, and another one (later in the same video), that basically says "he made a mistake, owned up to it, paid the price asked and we should just move on": Video

ETA II: that same woman that's first in the video also has another statement closer to the end of the video.... so watch it all the way through.

I've already heard their garbage, Richard. If a man twice the woman's size needs to knock her out in order to deal with the situation, that's his problem. If you need to do the same, that's your problem. I wouldn't have had to do that. Any man shouldn't have had to do that. I didn't think you were making it up, but it probably would have been better if you had been. There's no justification for what he did as far as I'm concerned and I'm pretty damned sure my stance is that of the majority of sentient beings.  Done.

You keep missing the point. No one said he NEEDS TO to. The point is, it's justifiable... whether you agree with it being so or not.

[Deleted]

Sept 13, 2014 23:42:30 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 13, 2014 23:36:17 GMT -5 Shooby said:

If a 10 yr old came up abd sprayed him with a water gun should he cold cock him too,?

Women=children?

Apparently women are unable to be held to the same standards of proper conduct in public as men are... so... why not.

[tallguy]

To play devil's advocate here:  Do you leave room for the idea that yes, he was wrong but yes, she deserved it?  Is it possible for those to be simultaneously true?  There is little doubt that if she had instead been some random guy from a bar there would be no charge filed.  Does equality only exist when it is convenient?  And is that really equal?  

[Shooby]

Sept 13, 2014 23:42:30 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 13, 2014 23:36:17 GMT -5 Shooby said:

If a 10 yr old came up abd sprayed him with a water gun should he cold cock him too,?

Women=children?

Women are not physically equal to men. If you want to live in Lala land and pretend then go aheaf. I already said there SHOULD be s double standard. Try going back and reading all my posts so I don't have to say it for the umpteenth time.

[mmhmm]

Sept 13, 2014 23:51:37 GMT -5 tallguy said:

To play devil's advocate here:  Do you leave room for the idea that yes, he was wrong but yes, she deserved it?  Is it possible for those to be simultaneously true?  There is little doubt that if she had instead been some random guy from a bar there would be no charge filed.  Does equality only exist when it is convenient?  And is that really equal?  

I think I said, somewhere along the line, gender isn't a factor here. Size, physical conditioning and strength are. I'd have felt exactly the same if she had been a man if the size/strength difference was comparable.

[mmhmm]

Sept 13, 2014 23:45:29 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Sept 13, 2014 23:16:48 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I've already heard their garbage, Richard. If a man twice the woman's size needs to knock her out in order to deal with the situation, that's his problem. If you need to do the same, that's your problem. I wouldn't have had to do that. Any man shouldn't have had to do that. I didn't think you were making it up, but it probably would have been better if you had been. There's no justification for what he did as far as I'm concerned and I'm pretty damned sure my stance is that of the majority of sentient beings.  Done.

You keep missing the point. No one said he NEEDS TO to. The point is, it's justifiable... whether you agree with it being so or not.

No, you missed the "Done" in my last post.  I'll make it more clear.  DONE.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Sept 13, 2014 23:51:37 GMT -5 tallguy said:

To play devil's advocate here:  Do you leave room for the idea that yes, he was wrong but yes, she deserved it?  Is it possible for those to be simultaneously true?  There is little doubt that if she had instead been some random guy from a bar there would be no charge filed.  Does equality only exist when it is convenient?  And is that really equal?  

To answer that - or rather ask another question... isn't it just as possible to stop yourself (whether man or woman) from striking first, and either walking away to cool-off, or trying to work it out through words rather than (alleged) spitting or fists?

Since the two people in question here were already in an elevator, I have to assume they both entered the elevator together willingly. Whatever it was that set one of them off, could probably have been settled with words once they exited, rather than spitting or shoving/hitting.

Cases like this are NOT something to be treated lightly. If one person in a relationship is capable of striking you and acts on it , it's best to run while you still can run.

[Shooby]

There are very few men who could not over power a woman. I could probably take down a 90 yr old but I couldn't even wrestle my sons to the ground after they hit 12 or so.

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2014 0:31:18 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Sept 13, 2014 23:45:29 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

You keep missing the point. No one said he NEEDS TO to. The point is, it's justifiable... whether you agree with it being so or not.

No, you missed the "Done" in my last post.  I'll make it more clear.  DONE.

For the record, I didn't miss that (the previous one I mean... I also didn't miss this one).

[tallguy]

Sept 14, 2014 0:29:46 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Sept 13, 2014 23:51:37 GMT -5 tallguy said:

To play devil's advocate here:  Do you leave room for the idea that yes, he was wrong but yes, she deserved it?  Is it possible for those to be simultaneously true?  There is little doubt that if she had instead been some random guy from a bar there would be no charge filed.  Does equality only exist when it is convenient?  And is that really equal?  

I think I said, somewhere along the line, gender isn't a factor here. Size, physical conditioning and strength are. I'd have felt exactly the same if she had been a man if the size/strength difference was comparable.

For you perhaps.  For society?  For the NFL?  For the Ravens?  Bottom line is this:  If the incident had been with a James Wright (at the same size) instead of Janay Rice, then Ray Rice would likely have been on the field Thursday night.  He'd still be collecting a very large paycheck and his public image would have suffered little, if at all.  Of course he was wrong (and you can argue he would have been equally so with a smaller man) but he would not now be a pariah. 

[mmhmm]

Sept 14, 2014 1:41:08 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Sept 14, 2014 0:29:46 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I think I said, somewhere along the line, gender isn't a factor here. Size, physical conditioning and strength are. I'd have felt exactly the same if she had been a man if the size/strength difference was comparable.

For you perhaps.  For society?  For the NFL?  For the Ravens?  Bottom line is this:  If the incident had been with a James Wright (at the same size) instead of Janay Rice, then Ray Rice would likely have been on the field Thursday night.  He'd still be collecting a very large paycheck and his public image would have suffered little, if at all.  Of course he was wrong (and you can argue he would have been equally so with a smaller man) but he would not now be a pariah. 

I don't deny justice is often less than just; however, I was speaking to the issue of what this man should have done under the circumstances. I can't speak for the stance of another. I can only, and will only speak for my own stance. I believe my stance is justified in simple, uncomplicated logic. That, most likely, is my failing as it appears to be a rather rare commodity in our society.