Ray Rice NFL Suspension Over Domestic Violence.

[Shooby]

Doesn't matter what the ifs are. He hit a woman not a man. Big difference.

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2014 6:55:10 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Doesn't matter what the ifs are. He hit a woman not a man. Big difference.

I agree that the "ifs" don't matter. What matters is that the woman made a decision to attack him. She chose to forego "protected status" as a woman.

He defended himself from an attack. Man or woman is irrelevant.

[billisonboard]

Sept 14, 2014 0:18:39 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Sept 13, 2014 23:42:30 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Women=children?

Women are not physically equal to men. If you want to live in Lala land and pretend then go aheaf. I already said there SHOULD be s double standard. Try going back and reading all my posts so I don't have to say it for the umpteenth time.

I did read that you believe there should be a double standard. I thought we were just working on what the standard for women should be. Sounded like you were offering the standard should be women are the equal of a 10 year old child when it came to physical. True?

[billisonboard]

Sept 14, 2014 0:32:23 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

... isn't it just as possible to stop yourself (whether man or woman) from striking first, and either walking away to cool-off, ... If one person in a relationship is capable of striking you and acts on it , it's best to run while you still can run.

He did move to the opposite side of the elevator. He did "run" when he could. She came at him after he had done what you say should have been done.

[Deleted]

I think there is a difference between a man knocking a random woman unconscious because she's aggressive towards him and a man knocking a woman unconscious when he's in a relationship with her and they are arguing. As I stated before I'm not as sure as some of you are that the woman in this particular situation was simply being aggressive towards him, I think she was reacting to him and his actions. Anyway, I imagine there is a reason the legal system uses "domestic violence" instead of just "assault" or "battery" for certain situations and there is a reason domestic violence is handled differently. I don't think the what if's about it happening in a bar between 2 men (strangers) of unequal size apply.

[billisonboard]

Sept 14, 2014 8:54:56 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

... As I stated before I'm not as sure as some of you are that the woman in this particular situation was simply being aggressive towards him, I think she was reacting to him and his actions. ...

One of his "actions" was to move across the elevator away from her. Her reaction to that move was to come rapidly toward him.

[Shooby]

Sept 14, 2014 8:02:04 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 14, 2014 0:18:39 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Women are not physically equal to men. If you want to live in Lala land and pretend then go aheaf. I already said there SHOULD be s double standard. Try going back and reading all my posts so I don't have to say it for the umpteenth time.

I did read that you believe there should be a double standard. I thought we were just working on what the standard for women should be. Sounded like you were offering the standard should be women are the equal of a 10 year old child when it came to physical. True?

Women are unequal to men in a physical fight. Absolutely. Thats why God gave us small guns and big purses! The great equalizer.

[mmhmm]

Doesn't it make sense to use the least amount of force necessary to control a situation? Seems logical to me.

[Shooby]

Even the military recognizes different physical statutes for women, so duh.

[Shooby]

I really don't know Richard is trying to argue. That Ray's life was in danger? That she could have killed him with her bare hands? Oh, ok. What nonsense.

[billisonboard]

Sept 14, 2014 9:22:45 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Doesn't it make sense to use the least amount of force necessary to control a situation? Seems logical to me.

And in some situations it is possible to slow down the process and make the determination of what that "least amount of force" is (e.g. ISIS). In other situations (e.g. being attacked by an angry person in a confined space), it is more difficult to assess and apply. Not being there, not knowing the full history of prior incidents makes me unwilling to assume I can judge the person to be wrong.

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2014 9:16:43 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 14, 2014 8:54:56 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

... As I stated before I'm not as sure as some of you are that the woman in this particular situation was simply being aggressive towards him, I think she was reacting to him and his actions. ...

One of his "actions" was to move across the elevator away from her. Her reaction to that move was to come rapidly toward him.

Yes he did move to the other side of the elevator. AFTER he spit on her again.

[billisonboard]

Sept 14, 2014 9:33:39 GMT -5 Shooby said:

I really don't know Richard is trying to argue. That Ray's life was in danger? That she could have killed him with her bare hands? Oh, ok. What nonsense.

Rice did not use deadly force on her so I am not sure why the issue of him fearing for his life is being brought up.

[Angel!]

Sept 14, 2014 9:33:39 GMT -5 Shooby said:

I really don't know Richard is trying to argue. That Ray's life was in danger? That she could have killed him with her bare hands? Oh, ok. What nonsense.

No kidding. She was pushing and hitting open handed. He runs into guys weighing twice what she does at full speed for a living. Are we really pretending she was a serious threat?

He overreacted.

And as pink mentioned this is different than a fight with a random person. DV has a whole different psychology behind it, which is why it is charged differently.

[billisonboard]

Sept 14, 2014 9:40:27 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Sept 14, 2014 9:16:43 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

One of his "actions" was to move across the elevator away from her. Her reaction to that move was to come rapidly toward him.

Yes he did move to the other side of the elevator. AFTER he spit on her again.

So physically attacking someone who spits on you is acceptable behavior?

[mmhmm]

Sept 14, 2014 9:42:16 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 14, 2014 9:33:39 GMT -5 Shooby said:

I really don't know Richard is trying to argue. That Ray's life was in danger? That she could have killed him with her bare hands? Oh, ok. What nonsense.

Rice did not use deadly force on her so I am not sure why the issue of him fearing for his life is being brought up.

I beg to differ. With the difference in their size and physical conditioning the force he used could well have been deadly. He's fortunate it wasn't.

[Shooby]

His FIST is deadly force. He could have killed her one punch.

[mmhmm]

Sept 14, 2014 9:44:00 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 14, 2014 9:40:27 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Yes he did move to the other side of the elevator. AFTER he spit on her again.

So physically attacking someone who spits on you is acceptable behavior?

No. No more so than decking someone you could easily have controlled with a spin and pin.

[Shooby]

I have repeatedly said, he could have gotten himself out of the situation and then called the police and pressed charges against her for her behavior.

[zibazinski]

Two ghetto rats emulating typical ghetto behavior. I hope it doesn't filter down to their daughter. She may have started hitting and spitting on him in response to him doing it to her but the fact is, the first time he ever hit her, she should have walked away from his money and had him prosecuted. The money and the status appealed to her more than her physical safety. Then to even have a child with this animal to protect her money in case he dumped her is frosting on the cake.   Neither of them are fit parents or fit human beings. Both need serious counseling and that child needs to be monitored for many years by outside sources.

[Deleted]

Just to be sure someone else saw what I saw, I googled it. Here you go, from ESPN link :

One former staffer said Rice, the former Baltimore Ravens running back, spat in his then-fiancée's face twice, "once outside the elevator and once inside," prompting her to retaliate with movements that were ultimately countered with a knockout punch. According to the men, as Rice punched Palmer, the elevator the couple rode was rapidly approaching the hotel lobby just two floors above the casino floor. A security staffer, dispatched from his lobby post, saw Rice starting to drag his fiancée, who appeared to still be unconscious, out of the elevator.

I think that him spitting on her changes the picture that people are trying to paint where he knocked her out because he was just trying to defend himself from an aggressive woman.

[zibazinski]

Not outside sources all impressed with monitoring a NFL family, either.

[Shooby]

Facts dont' matter. Spin to fit the narrative.

[billisonboard]

Sept 14, 2014 9:42:39 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Sept 14, 2014 9:33:39 GMT -5 Shooby said:

I really don't know Richard is trying to argue. That Ray's life was in danger? That she could have killed him with her bare hands? Oh, ok. What nonsense.

No kidding. She was pushing and hitting open handed. He runs into guys weighing twice what she does at full speed for a living. Are we really pretending she was a serious threat?

He overreacted.

And as pink mentioned this is different than a fight with a random person. DV has a whole different psychology behind it, which is why it is charged differently.

Did she overreact at any point or was it just him overreacting?

This is not a case of him making all the physical moves. She came at him in a physically aggressive manner. He responded in a physically aggressive manner. Shared responsibility or blame, whichever you was to do.

[Shooby]

And, he could have held her TOTALLY accountable if he would have stepped away and called the police and charged her. Is this thread not appearing in English or what?

[billisonboard]

Sept 14, 2014 9:50:22 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Facts dont' matter. Spin to fit the narrative.

Or to fit the video evidence.

[Shooby]

Which is what? He punched her in the chops.

[billisonboard]

Sept 14, 2014 9:52:18 GMT -5 Shooby said:

And, he could have held her TOTALLY accountable if he would have stepped away and called the police and charged her. Is this thread not appearing in English or what?

He did step away. She attacked him after he did.

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2014 9:44:00 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 14, 2014 9:40:27 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Yes he did move to the other side of the elevator. AFTER he spit on her again.

So physically attacking someone who spits on you is acceptable behavior?

I'm arguing against the idea that she was aggressive and he was doing nothing wrong until he knocked her out. It matters (at least to me) that he was spitting on her before she came toward him. I just don't like people pretending that he was being all calm and trying to avoid confrontation before she came toward him, when he was not.

[Angel!]

Sept 14, 2014 9:51:08 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 14, 2014 9:42:39 GMT -5 Angel! said:

No kidding. She was pushing and hitting open handed. He runs into guys weighing twice what she does at full speed for a living. Are we really pretending she was a serious threat?

He overreacted.

And as pink mentioned this is different than a fight with a random person. DV has a whole different psychology behind it, which is why it is charged differently.

Did she overreact at any point or was it just him overreacting?

This is not a case of him making all the physical moves. She came at him in a physically aggressive manner. He responded in a physically aggressive manner. Shared responsibility or blame, whichever you was to do.

They were both out of line in an escalating situation. I don't think anyone has said otherwise.