Ray Rice NFL Suspension Over Domestic Violence.

[OldCoyote]

Ray Rice has been suspended indefinitely from playing in the NFL for domestic violence.

Listening to a radio DJ yesterday  talking about how Ray Rice should be suspended.

First of all is this any of "our" business?  This is between Ray Rice, his wife, Police, and the Judge.

The NFL is Punishing Rice,  They are also punishing his wife the victim as well.

The husband and wife seem to have moved down the road from this.

So I'll ask again, Why is this "our" business?? 

[billisonboard]

[zibazinski]

Old coyote, you have a point but also at some point someone/anyone needs to take a stand against what is very wrong. I don't care that she was probably raised in a home with abuse. I don't care that he probably was, too. I care that there's a child who is now experiencing this and will grow up to think its okay for someone to hit her or for her to hit someone. It needs to stop and if losing his and her meal ticket makes it stop, so be it. I think what it will do is what it always has done, make people sneakier about it. 

[sesfw]

So I'll ask again, Why is this "our" business??

It's our business for a couple of reasons.

#1 ...... he is a 'public' figure and depends on the public for financial support.  Therefore the public needs to be aware and decide if he is 'worthy' of the support.

#2 ...... there is a minor child involved and children are the best mimics in the world.  They watch and learn very carefully.  Seeing as how the parents are not teaching right from wrong then others need to.

#3 ...... he is a big and strong man.  If he does this to one person off field and gets away with it, then he might think it's the way to settle differences with others.

I'm sure there are other reasons but these come to mind quickly.

[mmhmm]

You're damned right it's our business! As long as there are people who collect huge, outlandish salaries for playing sports - salaries which are based not only on their value as players, but also on their value as images and role-models for our young, we've got a say in it and we have a responsibility to make it clear the kind of behavior this man (and others who are now being "outed") exhibited is NOT acceptable!

[TheHaitian]

Simple:

- Public Figure

One of my old boss got arrested for domestic violence, put in the slammer for a night and released. He was suspended for 2 weeks without pay pending investigation and got his job back.

- not a public figure and no charges were filed so clean record.

[Angel!]

He is a public figure and role model for kids. NFL is right to punish him. They mostly do it for PR, but I appreciate it because I don't want kids growing up looking at him as a role model and not seeing ramifications for his bad choices.

[Deleted]

It's not really "our" business, but I can see how it can be the NFL's business. When people ask who he is, he's a NFL player. That's how people know him. The players are the faces of the NFL for the general public and being an abusive partner/spouse is something most Americans have a serious problem with. If the NFL doesn't take a stand against it, they look bad too.

[Shooby]

In the modern world, everything is now everyone's business. And, everyone feels they have some sort of right to comment and/or control what everyone says or does.

Yes, I am glad that things like domestic violence and child abuse are coming out of the shadows. Absolutely. But we have blurred the lines between private and public such that they no longer exist.

[billisonboard]

Sept 13, 2014 10:13:22 GMT -5 Shooby said:

In the modern world, everything is now everyone's business. And, everyone feels they have some sort of right to comment and/or control what everyone says or does.

...

With modern communication, "everyone" is now global, but I don't think there was ever a time when there weren't those who felt that way.

[Tennesseer]

That Rice is a public figure is almost secondary to me.

If it is proven by the powers that be that what has been shown (the video(s)) is in fact domestic violence, who is to say his unacceptable conduct and behavior could not spill out onto the playing field, onto a sports fan attendee or worker at the football stadium where he is playing? A number of individuals and organizations could be sued, ìncluding the NFL, the team owner(s), the stadium owners, or any others associated with football.

The behavior itself reaches out far further than just the injured spouse or partner.  

My former employer suspends employees without pay if they are arrested for unacceptable conduct outside of the workplace.  That unacceptable conduct includes domestic violence.  If convicted, the employee may very well lose their job.  Why should a sports figure be treated any differently?

[Tennesseer]

Sept 13, 2014 8:49:32 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Ray Rice has been suspended indefinitely from playing in the NFL for domestic violence.

Listening to a radio DJ yesterday  talking about how Ray Rice should be suspended.

First of all is this any of "our" business?  This is between Ray Rice, his wife, Police, and the Judge.

The NFL is Punishing Rice,  They are also punishing his wife the victim as well.

The husband and wife seem to have moved down the road from this.

So I'll ask again, Why is this "our" business?? 

Domestic violence is everyone's business. Should the problems of rape, child abuse, and other acts of violence against others not be our business too?

[Shooby]

Well, shame and shunning can go a long way to discouraging behaviors. We talk about "guilt and shame" as if it should be nonexistent. Well, in reality, guilt and shame can help alter and prevent behaviors. I am sure the rest of the league received a loud and clear message that their very livelihoods are at risk if they engage in the same thing.

[zibazinski]

I'd like to believe that but I sincerely doubt it.

[mmhmm]

I don't think it's as much guilt and shame as it is greed.  It's the loss of the big paycheck that's making an impression.

[Shooby]

Who cares why?

[Shooby]

Many deterrents involve external rewards or punishments. So what? If it is a deterrent, then it works.

[Tennesseer]

Sept 13, 2014 13:08:21 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Well, shame and shunning can go a long way to discouraging behaviors. We talk about "guilt and shame" as if it should be nonexistent. Well, in reality, guilt and shame can help alter and prevent behaviors. I am sure the rest of the league received a loud and clear message that their very livelihoods are at risk if they engage in the same thing.

So does some prison time, if warranted. That works too.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

It's interesting to witness the implosion of liberalism in all of this-- and please don't make the mistake of thinking none of this is political.  EVERYTHING is political in the United States.  Didn't used to be, shouldn't be- but that doesn't change the fact that it's ALL political.

So, let's dissect this and dive into the "real" questions: 

1. First, you've got a black NFL player and a white commissioner- the guy is looking at Trayvon Martin, and Michael Brown and probably went the two week suspension, and let's withhold the video because you know-- a black guy can't ever really be a threat to someone, right?  Punish the guy too hard, you're a racist.  So there's that.

2. Rice is just a gentle giant-- and after all, his girlfriend assaulted him first- spitting on him, and hitting him.  And what if she's a white African-American?  Can we get the NY Times opinion on this?

2.  I guess violence-against-women is apparently the trump card of all trump cards.  You can strong arm rob a convenience store and be a gentle giant that poses no threat to anyone, you can break a police officer's face with your fists; you can straddle a man and beat his head into the concrete sidewalk, but if you knock a woman unconscious-- that is a bridge too far.  

3.  Releasing video of violent black men behaving violently is racist.  Remember the video of the "gentle giant" robbing the store?  Even though there were numerous requests for any and all video- when it was revealed the gentle giant was just another budding street rat, then releasing that video was racist.  So, the NFL had the video- but they denied it, and wouldn't release it because it's racist to do that-- well, unless it shows an NFL player knocking a woman unconscious.  

4.  Does money play a role?  Trayvon and Brown didn't have a possible $4 million coming this year.  Maybe you can be a gentle giant if you're poor?  If you have a million or two and you nearly kill someone with your bare hands- perhaps then it's not acceptable.

5. Anyone else here think that the media has seized upon the NFL as the greatest threat facing America today because if they weren't focused on the Washington Redskins and Ray Rice-- they'd have to cover Fast & Furious, Benghazi, the IRS, the rise of ISIS, the record debt and deficits, ObamaCare's collapse, and the total joke that is man-made-climate change?

I come down on #5 -- knowing about it, it's appalling, and I think a big part of the reason players make millions of dollars is that fans come to see them play.  If a player is a turn off- as wife-beaters typically are- then that costs the employer something and it is the business-- literally the business-- of that employer to deal with the negative image of their company as a result of bad moral character on the part of Rice.  The prosecutors certainly went easy on him because of who he was-- no doubt in my mind the NFL used their influence.  The random black man that knocks a woman unconscious is not going to get counselling and probation.  That's two felonies- assault and battery-- maybe even aggravated battery.  Athletes can be considered weapons so you might even through in "with a deadly weapon".  Anyway- no doubt something should be done.  But the real reason we're all discussing this is that it is a convenient distraction, and an opportunity for the lamestream press to attack the NFL because they disobeyed the dear leader on changing the name of the Redskins, and you must obey the leader.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Sept 13, 2014 13:10:32 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I don't think it's as much guilt and shame as it is greed.  It's the loss of the big paycheck that's making an impression.

And on this note- let me bring some of you economic illiterates up to speed:  This is a deterrent, but it may not be the deterrent you think it is.  These women are marrying the money.  Harsh economic penalties will provide a strong deterrent to not report, and to cover up domestic violence.  The abusers are connected to their victims financially-- punishing the abuser is punishing the victim.  

I personally think if you want to have an impact on domestic violence, you need to change hearts and minds.  Abusers are often victims themselves-- you know, the old "hurt people hurt people".  Negative, or X-type motivation may actually exacerbate the situation for the victim.  Maybe if we really wanted change for the better we could have open, no-questions-asked, judgment-free zones like we do for alcoholics and everyone else who's screwed up for the abusers.  I honestly don't think people that do these kinds of things get up every day wanting to beat their wives and kids.  I don't think they're proud of themselves.  I think they just don't have the tools to stop themselves-- and I'll tell you, I think coming crashing down on them is liable to create a more volatile situation.

And yes, I do have direct personal experience with these situations-- and I've seen what works, and what doesn't.  A great first step is getting the victims AWAY from the abuser, but if you don't change the abuser-- they just move on to the next victim.

[Shooby]

Paul is absolutely right. Liberalism can take facts or situations and literally paint them to be anything that suits their agenda. Punching a cop in the face and accosting a clerk in a convenience store = good. Wife beating = bad, but they aren't sooo concerned about Ray Rice but about punishing the NFL and trying to discredit football which is the REAL agenda.

[Shooby]

And, had the NFL choosen to act without the blessing of the liberal social agenda, then there would have been outcries that he and she had worked it thru, that they go married. That he grew up in an abusive home and therefore he doesn't know any better, blah, blah and the NFL could then be painted as racists or whatever means they can use to try to push through their agenda.

[Deleted]

Someone please tell me again...... what segment of the population brings up race in every topic or situation? Sheesh!

[Shooby]

Liberal Dems. It is ALL that they see.

[Shooby]

And, the same people who ran out to call George Zimmerman a WHITE HISPANIC when the story hit. Uh huh.

[billisonboard]

Why are fire trucks red?

Cause there's eight wheels on them and four people, and four plus eight is twelve, and twelve is a foot and a foot is a ruler, and Queen Elizabeth was a ruler, and Queen Elizabeth was also a ship, and the ship sails the sea and in the sea is fish and fish have fins, and the Finns fought the Russians and the Russians were red and that's why firetrucks are red.

[Shooby]

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. Look in your duckling mirror.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Sept 13, 2014 15:55:57 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Paul is absolutely right. Liberalism can take facts or situations and literally paint them to be anything that suits their agenda. Punching a cop in the face and accosting a clerk in a convenience store = good. Wife beating = bad, but they aren't sooo concerned about Ray Rice but about punishing the NFL and trying to discredit football which is the REAL agenda.

There's no question in my mind that Barry McMomjeans hates "jocks" in general, but especially professional sports leagues because he has a deep seeded resentment of success in general, but he perceives professional sports as a symbol of the irrationality of markets, throw in that it's perceived as being as run by rich white guys, is dominated by the strong, physically, and mentally gifted who have received their talent and treasure unfairly and in the zero-sum-game of the left- at the expense of school teachers and climate researchers-- and you've got a rich target in the NFL.  No doubt he sees professional sports as a "waste of resources", a bastion of American cultural hedgemony .

The reason I like sports is the reason so many leftists hate it.  I've said it before, I'll say it again- liberalism is an ideology at war with nature itself.  It resents winners, and extols losers- without giving much thought to the "why".

Sports, however, seem particularly arbitrary.  Having not been a jock myself, I relate to the frustration of being humiliated by guys that win for no other reason than that they are stronger, faster, better coordinated, etc.  Nature just dealt some people a better hand in a very narrow area of life.  Dealing with this can be tough at times, but it can be a lot tougher if you come with the standard mental imbalance of your average left wing loon.

In sports- for the most part there's a beginning, and there's an end, there's a winner, and there's a loser.  And while there are rules and regulations, referees, instant replays, and even handicaps in some sports-- sports contests are by and large not weighted for "fairness", and they are not litigated, except unofficially by drunken bar patrons, after the fact-- and even drunken bar patrons are eventually have to accept the outcome.  

Winners win, and losers lose.  The winners are not later brought down arbitrarily, and points are not "redistributed".  

Liberals know sports are a perfect metaphor for the way life really works, and that represents an enormous threat to the entire liberal ideology.

[Shooby]

Yup. Gotta give everyone a trophy! lol

[billisonboard]

Sept 13, 2014 16:33:58 GMT -5 Shooby said:

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. Look in your duckling mirror.

Sometimes that sound is just someone blowing hot air.